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  1. #1
    Registered User john_zoller's Avatar
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    Best way to get ripped and gain muscle at the same time

    I'm having a lot of trouble finding out the proper way to do this. The amount and which type of calories I should take in?
    The supplements I should take?

    Just everything. I'm working out to the max and Im seeing minimal results and I just want to know what I'm doing wrong?
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  2. #2
    Carb Depleted outbreak's Avatar
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    You cannot do it. Simple as that.
    I'll get this one, put it on my card
    I get frequent flyer mileage
    And a booklet of upgrades
    So next time I visit the third world
    I won't have to fly second class

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  3. #3
    Lean & Mean R2S_RETURNS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by john_zoller
    I'm having a lot of trouble finding out the proper way to do this. The amount and which type of calories I should take in?
    The supplements I should take?

    Just everything. I'm working out to the max and Im seeing minimal results and I just want to know what I'm doing wrong?
    Without hearing all your regime I would say with almost complete confidence that it is your diet.

    I also think you need to come to terms with the fact that you will probably have to bulk and forget about getting ripped at the same time. Really (as I found) the only way to slap on some good size gains is to clean bulk and THEN cut after. Yes a little BF will be put on but so will mass (which you realy want).

    How about posting your diet and workout for us to look at.

    I would advise searching for info on HST training and clean bulking/carb cycling.

    R2S
    Last edited by R2S_RETURNS; 01-18-2006 at 06:57 AM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Big Will C's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by outbreak
    You cannot do it. Simple as that.
    Wrong. Simple as that. You can't make a blanket statement like that. Take a 400 lb sedentary, fat person and have them train with weights and do cardio. I guarantee they will build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    It is still possible to lose fat and build muscle with a person who has been training a while too, but all conditions (training, nutrition, supplementation, etc) must be nearly perfect. The more advanced you and your physique are, the harder this will be to do. The newer you are to weight training, the easier it will be. If you are advanced and you start using steroids during your leaning phase/diet you could gain muscle mass while shedding fat (for the record, I am/have always been natural and do not advocate this).

    Making a blanket, incorrect statement like that doesn't help anyone, especially those who are truly trying learn something on this board.
    Last edited by Big Will C; 01-18-2006 at 07:39 AM.
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  5. #5
    Lean & Mean R2S_RETURNS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Big Will C
    Wrong. Simple as that. You can't make a blanket statement like that. Take a 400 lb sedentary, fat person and have them train with weights and do cardio. I guarantee they will build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    It is still possible to lose fat and build muscle with a person who has been training a while too, but all conditions (training, nutrition, supplementation, etc) must be nearly perfect. If you start using steroids during your leaning phase/diet you could gain muscle mass while shedding fat.

    Making a blanket, incorrect statement like that doesn't help anyone, especially those who are truly trying learn something on this board.
    Cant disagree with any of that (and Oatbreaks comment was a little curt and not entirly true) however I think this guy wants the magic potion/formula to get ripped and gain loads of mass at the same time...... in most cases not possible, pick on and do that. Either get ripped and have little mass to speak of but some ab's and veins or bulk put on masss and a little fat but then cut and get to the body fat level you want to best show off your extra muscle whilst not losing too much of your gains.

    R2S
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  6. #6
    Registered User Jneves's Avatar
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    Do some research on carb cycling diets and Massive eating by john berardi... both methods of eating if done right are proven for getting lean AND building muscle. Though you still won't build as much muscle as if you strictly bulked or lose as much fat as if you strictly cut, but for a long term goal it is a good way to go if your allready in half decent shape. If your currently scrawny or a fat slob (or BOTH!) i would address the more pressing issue directly first.
    "Leave the pump in the bedroom and add some damn weight to the bar" - Dave Tate

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  7. #7
    Lean & Mean R2S_RETURNS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jneves
    Do some research on carb cycling diets and Massive eating by john berardi... both methods of eating if done right are proven for getting lean AND building muscle. Though you still won't build as much muscle as if you strictly bulked or lose as much fat as if you strictly cut, but for a long term goal it is a good way to go if your allready in half decent shape. If your currently scrawny or a fat slob (or BOTH!) i would address the more pressing issue directly first.
    Excellent post.
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  8. #8
    Registered User RipStone's Avatar
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    I agree with what Bill Will C and jneves said.

    Let me preface my response by saying anything you deicide to do is highly individualized and there is not one single "cookie cutter" way of doing anything. Like, how long should you do cardio? Who really knows. You have to try something out and see what works well for you.

    Ok, IMO if you do things right you really never need to do bulking and cutting cycles. I posted this on another forum, but it might help you get an idea of what I am talking about...

    "I agree with Sharkie. If you "bulk" right then you wont have to really have strict bulking/cutting cycles. Basiclly, I like to think of this process as a clean-perpetual bulk. That is, eat clean foods 100% of the time(following nutrient timing guidelines) and gain weight slowly. Thus, you dont gain too much fat and the weight you do gain is muscle. Also, judge results more by the mirror and gym performace(increasing weight in the core lifts) and less by what the scale says. This way you never let your body fat % get too out of hand(land Shark said). You also, do cardio, but not so much that it intefers with gaining muscle/weight. This way you never really "cut". You just reduce carbs(look into timed carb diets, aka TCD). Lifting and cardio stay the same for me throughout.

    Now, I am not a competitve BBer, nor do I want to be one, but IMO this is a great way to get strong/big without doing BBer-esk "bulking/cutting cycles"."
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  9. #9
    Carb Depleted outbreak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Big Will C
    Wrong. Simple as that. You can't make a blanket statement like that. Take a 400 lb sedentary, fat person and have them train with weights and do cardio. I guarantee they will build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    It is still possible to lose fat and build muscle with a person who has been training a while too, but all conditions (training, nutrition, supplementation, etc) must be nearly perfect. The more advanced you and your physique are, the harder this will be to do. The newer you are to weight training, the easier it will be. If you are advanced and you start using steroids during your leaning phase/diet you could gain muscle mass while shedding fat (for the record, I am/have always been natural and do not advocate this).

    Making a blanket, incorrect statement like that doesn't help anyone, especially those who are truly trying learn something on this board.
    OK
    For starters he said "ripped" so if he is a 400 pound sedentary he is not going to get ripped with out having to go through a few bulk and cut cycles. You are using an extreme example here to prove a point. When people first start working out they build muscle and lose fat at the same time, thats common knowledge, but that soon goes away and you will have to cut and bulk, unless you use steroids which leads onto my second point.

    This isn' the steroids section. I am very well aware that "If you start using steroids during your leaning phase/diet you could gain muscle mass while shedding fat." But if this guy doesn't know how many calories he needs to take in, I really doubt if he is going to be doing a cycle in the near future. God help him if he does.

    My reply was curt because I am sick of people not reading about cutting and bulking, and asking that question. "I want to get ripped and bulked at the same time".
    I'll get this one, put it on my card
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  10. #10
    Registered User john_zoller's Avatar
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    thanks for the input
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  11. #11
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    Start logging your calories is my first piece of advice. Get to know your body. Experiment with different amounts of calories and ratios etc. You will after a few years realise what works for you. Bodybuilding is a trial and error process. Your body will only put on as much lean mass as your genetics will allow, even if you eat thousands of calories more it does not matter you will still only put on as much mass as your genetics will allow. (Yes i know about having a higher BF makes it easier to put on mass etc) But all in all you can do a clean perpetual bulk and add pure mass provided you know how your body works. Just start a journal and log everything.
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  12. #12
    Lean & Mean R2S_RETURNS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by john_zoller
    thanks for the input
    What's that in your sig?

    Was this thread a piss take?

    If so you should appoligise for people that have taken the time to reply seriously to you.

    (sorry if it was genuine)

    R2S
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    Originally Posted by RipStone
    I agree with what Bill Will C and jneves said.

    Let me preface my response by saying anything you deicide to do is highly individualized and there is not one single "cookie cutter" way of doing anything. Like, how long should you do cardio? Who really knows. You have to try something out and see what works well for you.

    Ok, IMO if you do things right you really never need to do bulking and cutting cycles. I posted this on another forum, but it might help you get an idea of what I am talking about...

    "I agree with Sharkie. If you "bulk" right then you wont have to really have strict bulking/cutting cycles. Basiclly, I like to think of this process as a clean-perpetual bulk. That is, eat clean foods 100% of the time(following nutrient timing guidelines) and gain weight slowly. Thus, you dont gain too much fat and the weight you do gain is muscle. Also, judge results more by the mirror and gym performace(increasing weight in the core lifts) and less by what the scale says. This way you never let your body fat % get too out of hand(land Shark said). You also, do cardio, but not so much that it intefers with gaining muscle/weight. This way you never really "cut". You just reduce carbs(look into timed carb diets, aka TCD). Lifting and cardio stay the same for me throughout.

    Now, I am not a competitve BBer, nor do I want to be one, but IMO this is a great way to get strong/big without doing BBer-esk "bulking/cutting cycles"."


    I agree with everything Ripstone said. Its how a lot of people I know train. May take a little longer, or changes appear slower, but it seems like a smart way to think about growth.
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  14. #14
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    German Body Comp, worked for me.
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    Originally Posted by robbievander View Post
    German Body Comp, worked for me.
    I'm sure they were waiting 8 long years for that masterful response.
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