Bulk up or lean out first???

[Dane22]

I'm not sure which one needs to come first... I am a little over 5 foot 9 and 153lbs. I lift heavy 5 or 6 days a week and do 30 to 60 mins of cardio 5, 6 sometimes 7 days a week. My body is changing ALOT!!! Don't get me wrong thats great and all but I'd love to try to compete in August and am not sure where to go from here.

My diet is fairly clean as follows
1st meal:
5 EW 1 yoke
1 cup veggies, 1 cup spinach
1 piece ezeikiel toast w/ 1 tsp sf jam
or 1/2 cup oats cinnamon & stevia

2nd meal:
3 cups spinach
1 tsp ff raz ving
ff string cheese

3rd meal:
4-5 oz lean meat
1-2 cup raw or lightly steamed veggies
1 piece ezeikiel toast
or 1/4 cup brown rice or whole wheat pasta

4th meal:
piece of fruit with natural PB
or 1/4 cup almonds with 1/2 cup FF cottage cheese

5th meal:
4-6 oz lean meat
1/2 sweet pot or white pot with salt & pepper
1-3 cups steamed veggies

6th meal: if I can eat it
4 EW omelette
1/2apple microwaved with cinnamon

I started lifting and cardio as well as eating cleaner November 28 at a weight of 158 lbs and I think right at 30% BF I'm now at 153lbs lost more than 12 inches and am at 24 % BF... I really havce alot of work to go and any advice would be really great!!!

[Dane22]

I really have no clue where to go from here... any advice would be sooo great! Do I continue to lift heavy and eat a ton or lighten up on my meals and try to lean out first?

Dane

[Amanda76]

If your body is moving in the right direction, I'd just stick with what you're doing...your diet looks pretty good. Are you taking an EFA supplement (you might want to consume more fat for health purposes, but I'm not sure exactly how much you're getting). Worry about changing things up when it quits working.

At 24% BF I wouldn't bulk...but I would take the fat loss slow (if you're losing more than a pound or two a week, slow down) and continue to work on gaining muscle (lift heavy). There's no reason to ever switch to light weights. Diet is what cuts you up.

Around May or June, you'll probably want to pay more attention to really getting lean. I'd spend the time between now and then trying to talk with competitors...you can hunt down through bodyspace or the fitness competition forum. Maybe one will happen into this thread (might be better to start a thread with a title that says you're interested in competing).

[JJanet]

Hey there! Congrats on losing all those inches and pounds!! You must have put a lot of hard work into it! As for whether you should bulk or cut, if your goal is to compete in August, I would think getting your bf% lower would be a good goal. (Keep in mind that I have never competed before, but I wanted to reply to you since no one else has had a chance yet! ) Your food choices look fantastic. What is sweet pot/white pot? Sounds yummy!

[Tiffany_P]

If you're still seeing changes, then why not stick with what you're doing?

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

If your body is moving in the right direction, I'd just stick with what you're doing...your diet looks pretty good. Are you taking an EFA supplement (you might want to consume more fat for health purposes, but I'm not sure exactly how much you're getting). Worry about changing things up when it quits working.

At 24% BF I wouldn't bulk...but I would take the fat loss slow (if you're losing more than a pound or two a week, slow down) and continue to work on gaining muscle (lift heavy). There's no reason to ever switch to light weights. Diet is what cuts you up.

Around May or June, you'll probably want to pay more attention to really getting lean. I'd spend the time between now and then trying to talk with competitors...you can hunt down through bodyspace or the fitness competition forum. Maybe one will happen into this thread (might be better to start a thread with a title that says you're interested in competing).

Thanks for the reply! Please forgive me I'm still very new to this quote thing well I really just don't know how to do it! What are EFA's? I guess I'm not taking any, the only thing I am taking are prenatals... not because I'm trying but b/c my Dr. has me on a folate depleting med, glutamine and Glucosamone/ chondroitin...

As for weight loss I've actually only lost maybe 4 or 5 lbs I think, it's really BF% and inches more than anything else. Thats kinda my concern, I don't want to look too skinny I do want more muscle I just didn't know whether to focus on bulking or cutting first. I'm not really a fan of the bloated look.

Where do I find a comp forum?

Thanks Again

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by JJanet

Hey there! Congrats on losing all those inches and pounds!! You must have put a lot of hard work into it! As for whether you should bulk or cut, if your goal is to compete in August, I would think getting your bf% lower would be a good goal. (Keep in mind that I have never competed before, but I wanted to reply to you since no one else has had a chance yet! ) Your food choices look fantastic. What is sweet pot/white pot? Sounds yummy!

Thanks!!! I guess guys will do that to you! That was a huge cataylst .

Sweet Potato or white potato with sea salt and pepper
I forgot pervuian purples as well those are my favorites they are soo good w/ roasted garlic alderwood smoked seasalt and pepper and if it's a cheat day a little fat free sour cream

Thatnk for the info BTW

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by Dane22

Thanks for the reply! Please forgive me I'm still very new to this quote thing well I really just don't know how to do it! What are EFA's? I guess I'm not taking any, the only thing I am taking are prenatals... not because I'm trying but b/c my Dr. has me on a folate depleting med, glutamine and Glucosamone/ chondroitin...

As for weight loss I've actually only lost maybe 4 or 5 lbs I think, it's really BF% and inches more than anything else. Thats kinda my concern, I don't want to look too skinny I do want more muscle I just didn't know whether to focus on bulking or cutting first. I'm not really a fan of the bloated look.

Where do I find a comp forum?

Thanks Again

EFA's are Essential Fatty Acids. You can take them in pill form. Or add fats through adding olive or flax seed oil, avacado, salmon, other varieties of nuts, things like that.

Both bulking and cutting have their downfalls:

Bulking = gaining mostly muscle while gaining (hopefully just a little) bodyfat
Cutting = losing mostly bodyfat while likely loosing a bit of muscle

With you losing 6% bodyfat, lots of inches and only 5 lbs, I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing until it quits working. You are enjoying a rare circumstance of being able to both gain significant amounts of muscle while losing significant amounts of fat, which is what everyone WANTS to be able to do but is rarely able to (which is why we normally focus on one or the other). Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing until you either stall out in strength and lean mass gains or stall out with fat loss.

At bodybuilding.com's forums there are "Fitness Competitions" and "Contest Preparation" forums under General Categories.

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

EFA's are Essential Fatty Acids. You can take them in pill form. Or add fats through adding olive or flax seed oil, avacado, salmon, other varieties of nuts, things like that.

Both bulking and cutting have their downfalls:

Bulking = gaining mostly muscle while gaining (hopefully just a little) bodyfat
Cutting = losing mostly bodyfat while likely loosing a bit of muscle

With you losing 6% bodyfat, lots of inches and only 5 lbs, I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing until it quits working. You are enjoying a rare circumstance of being able to both gain significant amounts of muscle while losing significant amounts of fat, which is what everyone WANTS to be able to do but is rarely able to (which is why we normally focus on one or the other). Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing until you either stall out in strength and lean mass gains or stall out with fat loss.

At bodybuilding.com's forums there are "Fitness Competitions" and "Contest Preparation" forums under General Categories.

Ok so I actually have taken EFA's in the past but with little sucess, as the pill form tends to really upset my GI tract. So with that said I try to incorporate Avocado, almonds, flax seed on salads and salmon sashimi once or twice a week... I'm not a fan of cooked fish I also use a little olive oil when cooking my chicken, turkey, or ostrich. Hopefully it's enough and i'm not depriving myself of anything.

Thanks for your help!!!

[trainwithrae]

can you post photos up?
that would help a LOT

[darkangel]

Originally Posted by Dane22

Ok so I actually have taken EFA's in the past but with little sucess, as the pill form tends to really upset my GI tract. So with that said I try to incorporate Avocado, almonds, flax seed on salads and salmon sashimi once or twice a week... I'm not a fan of cooked fish I also use a little olive oil when cooking my chicken, turkey, or ostrich.

What was the pill form? Flax or fish oil? Have you tried Udo's oil? It's a blend. I gulp it by the tablespoonful with a meal. I only have problems if I take the oil on an empty stomach without food.

[Mrs-gsxr]

EFA's are Essential Fatty Acids. You can take them in pill form. Or add fats through adding olive or flax seed oil, avacado, salmon, other varieties of nuts, things like that.

Both bulking and cutting have their downfalls:

Bulking = gaining mostly muscle while gaining (hopefully just a little) bodyfat
Cutting = losing mostly bodyfat while likely loosing a bit of muscle

With you losing 6% bodyfat, lots of inches and only 5 lbs, I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing until it quits working. You are enjoying a rare circumstance of being able to both gain significant amounts of muscle while losing significant amounts of fat, which is what everyone WANTS to be able to do but is rarely able to (which is why we normally focus on one or the other). Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing until you either stall out in strength and lean mass gains or stall out with fat loss.

At bodybuilding.com's forums there are "Fitness Competitions" and "Contest Preparation" forums under General Categories.



Amen to that .I've been trying to do that for about 6 months...I would say stick to what your doing as well as others have said...When it stop workin' is when I would switch things up...

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by trainwithrae

can you post photos up?
that would help a LOT

I have pics from when I first started lifting that I will post as soon as I take progress pics, in about a week, my camera is in the shop... i broke it at my cousins bachlorettes party

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by darkangel

What was the pill form? Flax or fish oil? Have you tried Udo's oil? It's a blend. I gulp it by the tablespoonful with a meal. I only have problems if I take the oil on an empty stomach without food.

All pill forms, its the gal cap, I thoink I might have a slight intollerance to whatever it's made of, and as for straight oils, unless I mix them with food they sprint threw my system. So I dunno

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by trainwithrae

can you post photos up?
that would help a LOT

I know it took forever but I finally put a couple pics up.
Two days after late night debouchery and wedding cake cheat... But no excuses

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by Dane22

I know it took forever but I finally put a couple pics up.
Two days after late night debouchery and wedding cake cheat... But no excuses

Definitely keep doing what you're doing...you look like you've lost WAY more than 5 lbs (is that still your total?) in your pics. Proof that the scale doesn't tell you much.

Great work!

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

Definitely keep doing what you're doing...you look like you've lost WAY more than 5 lbs (is that still your total?) in your pics. Proof that the scale doesn't tell you much.

Great work!

Thanks! I've gone from 158 to 151, & lost lots of inches. So I guess that means theres more muscle.

Do you know the formula to find out what LBM is?

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

Definitely keep doing what you're doing...you look like you've lost WAY more than 5 lbs (is that still your total?) in your pics. Proof that the scale doesn't tell you much.

Great work!

No kidding!!! You look amazing! Good grief girl don't change anything while it's still working! Women here would kill for your results

[trainwithrae]

I think in pill form you have to take 12 caps to equal 1 tsp of oil

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by Dane22

Thanks! I've gone from 158 to 151, & lost lots of inches. So I guess that means theres more muscle.

Do you know the formula to find out what LBM is?

Looks like more than that, too.

None of the LBM calculators you'll find online will be accurate at all (they'll use circumference measurements along with your height and weight...somehow I'm always like 40% bf on those things, regardless of how much leaner I get from the time I start...LOL). Go find a professional who can do a caliper test if you want to track your bodyfat percentage.

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

Looks like more than that, too.

None of the LBM calculators you'll find online will be accurate at all (they'll use circumference measurements along with your height and weight...somehow I'm always like 40% bf on those things, regardless of how much leaner I get from the time I start...LOL). Go find a professional who can do a caliper test if you want to track your bodyfat percentage.

I actually have calipers and test every couple of weeks, have a friend put it in a log for me and then look the next time I test. I really am not that concerned about the number, it's more about the way I look in the mirror. I do weigh my self only to make sure I'm not loosing too much, If I loose more than a pound per week I up my protein and of course veggies.

I was really just kinda curious to know what my total Lean muscle weight is as well as total fat weight is. I thought there was a way to formulate it.
Not sure though.

[Amanda76]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you were looking for. There are lots of formulas you can use (I have directions for a nine-point method living somewhere on my computer...), but you'll probably find the following article (which includes a calculator that uses the Jackson-Pollock 3 site method) helpful: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson98.htm

[terracotta]

Originally Posted by Dane22

I actually have calipers and test every couple of weeks, have a friend put it in a log for me and then look the next time I test. I really am not that concerned about the number, it's more about the way I look in the mirror. I do weigh my self only to make sure I'm not loosing too much, If I loose more than a pound per week I up my protein and of course veggies.

I was really just kinda curious to know what my total Lean muscle weight is as well as total fat weight is. I thought there was a way to formulate it.
Not sure though.

I think this is what you are asking...

If the caliper tells you that you are 24% bodyfat and you are 153 lbs, you first calculate the lbs of fat, so 0.24 * 153 = 37. Then you subtract that, so 153 - 37 = 116 = lbs of weight from lean mass.

We can take this even further, suppose you'd like to be 10% bf with the same amount of muscle, then your LBM of 116 would make up 90% of your weight, 116/.9 = 129 lbs. So supposing you went from 153 to 129 and kept all of your muscle, you'd be down to 10% bf. This means you would have 24 lbs of fat to lose under that scenario.

So I definitely agree that you should stick with the current course of leaning out.

I hope that wasn't confusing

[julieofarc]

Thanks for this, terracotta! You wouldn't believe how long it took me staring at an excel sheet to figure it out on my own- and in a much harder way! It's frustrating to me sometimes to look at the weight 'charts' and then my own body- mostly because at my current weight, I'm about 28% bf, so in the low 140's for lean body mass. That means that even at 10% bf- buff and skinny- I'll still be at least 160!!!!! So, I just gotta change my mental framework, and worry about melting the fat away and building the muscle.

Originally Posted by terracotta

I think this is what you are asking...

If the caliper tells you that you are 24% bodyfat and you are 153 lbs, you first calculate the lbs of fat, so 0.24 * 153 = 37. Then you subtract that, so 153 - 37 = 116 = lbs of weight from lean mass.

We can take this even further, suppose you'd like to be 10% bf with the same amount of muscle, then your LBM of 116 would make up 90% of your weight, 116/.9 = 129 lbs. So supposing you went from 153 to 129 and kept all of your muscle, you'd be down to 10% bf. This means you would have 24 lbs of fat to lose under that scenario.

So I definitely agree that you should stick with the current course of leaning out.

I hope that wasn't confusing

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by terracotta

I think this is what you are asking...

If the caliper tells you that you are 24% bodyfat and you are 153 lbs, you first calculate the lbs of fat, so 0.24 * 153 = 37. Then you subtract that, so 153 - 37 = 116 = lbs of weight from lean mass.

We can take this even further, suppose you'd like to be 10% bf with the same amount of muscle, then your LBM of 116 would make up 90% of your weight, 116/.9 = 129 lbs. So supposing you went from 153 to 129 and kept all of your muscle, you'd be down to 10% bf. This means you would have 24 lbs of fat to lose under that scenario.

So I definitely agree that you should stick with the current course of leaning out.

I hope that wasn't confusing

SO I do have a question... if I'm at 137 lbs and 14.2% BF right now then I plug in ..14*137 = 19.18 Then does that mean 137-19.18=117.82 is my LBM??? DId I do that right? and how can I estimate what my LBM will be at 7 or 8 %???

[anandagirl]

Originally Posted by Dane22

SO I do have a question... if I'm at 137 lbs and 14.2% BF right now then I plug in ..14*137 = 19.18 Then does that mean 137-19.18=117.82 is my LBM??? DId I do that right? and how can I estimate what my LBM will be at 7 or 8 %???

Yes, you did do the calculation right. Now if you take your LBM and divide it by the % of lean body mass you want to be (BF% = 8, then LBM% = 92), you can find out an estimated target weight:

117.82/.92 = 128 pounds = WAY too low for someone sho is 5'9". I weighed that when I was in HS and I was soooo skinny....

BUT, things change as you get closer - LBM changes, and some women carry fat differently. Some women look great at 10%, others at 13%. I do think 7-8% is way too low. I don't know too many women that can or need to get that low, unless dieting down to a BB contest weight! Fitness and figure usually have higher BF%

[terracotta]

8% on a woman is competition body fat level. It isn't healthy to stay below 12 or 13% bodyfat for a female for any length of time. But this is ok for the short competition time, eg. a few days at that bf%age. 16% is considered fairly lean, and most women won't aim for lower than that.

[Dane22]

Originally Posted by anandagirl

Yes, you did do the calculation right. Now if you take your LBM and divide it by the % of lean body mass you want to be (BF% = 8, then LBM% = 92), you can find out an estimated target weight:

117.82/.92 = 128 pounds = WAY too low for someone sho is 5'9". I weighed that when I was in HS and I was soooo skinny....

BUT, things change as you get closer - LBM changes, and some women carry fat differently. Some women look great at 10%, others at 13%. I do think 7-8% is way too low. I don't know too many women that can or need to get that low, unless dieting down to a BB contest weight! Fitness and figure usually have higher BF%

Originally Posted by terracotta

8% on a woman is competition body fat level. It isn't healthy to stay below 12 or 13% bodyfat for a female for any length of time. But this is ok for the short competition time, eg. a few days at that bf%age. 16% is considered fairly lean, and most women won't aim for lower than that.

Thank you both for your info that really helps alot

I agree with the both of you that under 13 or 14 is too low long term... and yes I also agree that 128 is too light for 5'9". I just recently decided to compete in June so that puts me at about 10.5 weeks out and was kinda curious to see what my numbers might look like:/ Not really pleased... I'm not concerned about the BF% per say but then again who knows what % is going to be lean enough for me, I think for now I'm gonna just stick to the mirror. Then see where I can improve after.