used E-max - now im in a slump

[BuffaJoe]

Finished my E-max over 2 months ago - now im in a huge slump where ive actually lost weight and strength.

My ph cycle was solid, as was my pct (nolva). i gained about 10 pounds on the cycle - now, 2.5 months after PCT ive lost nearly everything.

My diet/ training is solid as usual. got a little off track during the holiday week, and had a 10 day vacation, but still got into the gym a couple times.

Could the E-max be responsible? should I consider Going to the doc for hormone blood work? mabey my test level is low.

doesnt seem to make sense to me, as my PCT was very solid. or is this the infamous ph 'roller coaster' everyone complains about?

any replies/sugestions appreciated

[jtmOBX]

Finished my E-max over 2 months ago - now im in a huge slump where ive actually lost weight and strength.

My ph cycle was solid, as was my pct (nolva). i gained about 10 pounds on the cycle - now, 2.5 months after PCT ive lost nearly everything.

My diet/ training is solid as usual. got a little off track during the holiday week, and had a 10 day vacation, but still got into the gym a couple times.

Could the E-max be responsible? should I consider Going to the doc for hormone blood work? mabey my test level is low.

doesnt seem to make sense to me, as my PCT was very solid. or is this the infamous ph 'roller coaster' everyone complains about?

any replies/sugestions appreciated

If youve lost everything youve gained, your diet is top and your training is correct and youve not surpassed natural gains you might want to check into getting your hormone levels checked IMO.

[R_N_S]

well, are you experiencing signs of low test?

[BillyB]

Food intake is just as important as pct. Even after, you have to take into account the new muscle you gained and keep your calories up. Do not be afraid to eat and gain a bit of fat.

[Guardian]

Im not sure what happens to people tbh.

I have used to cycles myself. After each cycle I did not lose anything, in fact I kept gaining, and my post cycle therapy wasnt optmial since I didnt use nolva.

IMo people who lose after a cycle is because more of mental then actual; physcial reasons. People get the idea sub consciously that there results were because of the roids, then off they wonder how they can keep it up, or hope they can.

There is no hope, there is no wondering, you must know that you will keep them, determination and mental willpower wins this game.

After cycle keep cals up, us a cortisol product, although most disagree keep volume high. Work each muscle once a week to hell and no more. Also I used the exact same workout regime whether on or off, i think when people start training more days or longer then usual then come off it both has a negative impact phsyically and mentally.

Take it for what its worth

-Jordan

[BuffaJoe]

well, are you experiencing signs of low test?

not really...

[jtmOBX]

This is likely from a ****ty PCT, a normal person using a proper PCT should keep the gains unless theyve already passed the human potential.

[skelooth]

Im not sure what happens to people tbh.

I have used to cycles myself. After each cycle I did not lose anything, in fact I kept gaining, and my post cycle therapy wasnt optmial since I didnt use nolva.

IMo people who lose after a cycle is because more of mental then actual; physcial reasons. People get the idea sub consciously that there results were because of the roids, then off they wonder how they can keep it up, or hope they can.

There is no hope, there is no wondering, you must know that you will keep them, determination and mental willpower wins this game.

After cycle keep cals up, us a cortisol product, although most disagree keep volume high. Work each muscle once a week to hell and no more. Also I used the exact same workout regime whether on or off, i think when people start training more days or longer then usual then come off it both has a negative impact phsyically and mentally.

Take it for what its worth

-Jordan

that makes sense, thumbs up

[BuffaJoe]

This is likely from a ****ty PCT, a normal person using a proper PCT should keep the gains unless theyre already passed the human potential.

did you read my post? My PCT was solid...

[R_N_S]

if you're not experiencing any low test sides, i'd have to say that's not the problem. It couldnt hurt to get get it checked, if for nothing else at least for peace of mind.

Are you sure you're eating enough protein/carbs/fat? While eating maintanance on cycle you can build with that, but not after a cycle. Hopefully you know what your maintanance is and you're eating a good 300-400 over it.

[jtmOBX]

did you read my post? My PCT was solid...

I believe you then but elaborate. Cant confirm or help ya much when solid is all youre saying.

[BuffaJoe]

if you're not experiencing any low test sides, i'd have to say that's not the problem. It couldnt hurt to get get it checked, if for nothing else at least for peace of mind.

Are you sure you're eating enough protein/carbs/fat? While eating maintanance on cycle you can build with that, but not after a cycle. Hopefully you know what your maintanance is and you're eating a good 300-400 over it.

what are some symptoms of low test ?

you may be right on here. This is the only thing I could come up with. ill load up on cals for a while and see if I cant get right back to where I was.

I did expect the strength loss after the cycle - but not all this weight.

[R_N_S]

weight loss is also to be expected; but obviously not all 10 lbs, possibly just a few for water weight, but even then I think ergo is fairly dry


how bout this, you tell me if you've noticed anything different in your day to day routine; if I tell you signs, you'll probably convince yourself you're experiencing them.

[BuffaJoe]

I believe you then but elaborate. Cant confirm or help ya much when solid is all youre saying.

40 mg for the first 2 days then finished at 30mg for the remainder of week 1

20 mg for weeks 2 and 3
10mg for week 4

I used a liquid tamox citrate from ***

[Nathan1]

Please provide the following:

Stats
Diet while "ON" - breakdown of P/C/F also
Diet while "PCT"ing - breakdown


definately sounds like this is the problem.

[BuffaJoe]

weight loss is also to be expected; but obviously not all 10 lbs, possibly just a few for water weight, but even then I think ergo is fairly dry


how bout this, you tell me if you've noticed anything different in your day to day routine; if I tell you signs, you'll probably convince yourself you're experiencing them.

yea man, I def dont think ive got low test symptoms at all. nothing really has changed dramatically.

[BuffaJoe]

Please provide the following:

Stats
Diet while "ON" - breakdown of P/C/F also
Diet while "PCT"ing - breakdown


definately sounds like this is the problem.

my diest has not changed in over 7 months. I eat ~3500 cals a day 40/40/20 is what I try to aim for.

Im going to fitday my diet this week and see if everything is where it should be

[R_N_S]

ya, if nothing stands out then that's probably not your problem. Diet definitely needs to be looked at.

[Nathan1]

my diest has not changed in over 7 months.

THAT is probably the problem. your diet SHOULD have changed sometime to account for your new weight, assuming it was muscle. what are your stats?? 3500 cals may have been enough before cycle but NOT after.

[jtmOBX]

40 mg for the first 2 days then finished at 30mg for the remainder of week 1

20 mg for weeks 2 and 3
10mg for week 4

I used a liquid tamox citrate from ***

Im not trying to be a prick but something obviously isnt correct in this situation whether it be diet, PCT or some other factor and generally its PCT and/or diet.

[R_N_S]

I have to assume you weren't gaining weight before the cycle, so once the added weight was there and you ate the same, it apparently wasn't enough to support the gains.

[BuffaJoe]

thanks for the help guys - ill have to re-evaluate my diet. I guess I just got to comfortale wit what I was doing. shame really. Hopfully I can gain the weight back quickly.

[FatnBald]

IMo people who lose after a cycle is because more of mental then actual; physcial reasons. People get the idea sub consciously that there results were because of the roids, then off they wonder how they can keep it up, or hope they can.

There is no hope, there is no wondering, you must know that you will keep them, determination and mental willpower wins this game.
-Jordan

I have to disagree with you there. Sure, a lot of it is mental, but physical reasons cause weight loss too, especially with longer cycles and the bigger one gets. It also varies greatly with individuals. I know some lucky people who've done 12 week cycles with no pct and kept it all while eating crappy diets. Others have worked their asses off, done pct correctly, and still only managed to keep half their gains. So while slacking off and not dieting is a sure way to lose mass, keeping your diet and training up isn't a sure way to keep it all.

[jmil]

I have to disagree with you there. Sure, a lot of it is mental, but physical reasons cause weight loss too, especially with longer cycles and the bigger one gets. It also varies greatly with individuals. I know some lucky people who've done 12 week cycles with no pct and kept it all while eating crappy diets. Others have worked their asses off, done pct correctly, and still only managed to keep half their gains. So while slacking off and not dieting is a sure way to lose mass, keeping your diet and training up isn't a sure way to keep it all.

I agree with this...I believe Guardian made a very good post...but these are very valid points. Everyone is different, even if every single person had a "solid" pct, ate above maintenance, adjusted their training, and got plenty of rest...it wouldn't ensure kept gains every single time.