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  1. #1
    Registered User Joe00224223's Avatar
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    Do 'benzos' (klonpin, xanex) effect fat loss?

    The may be more commonly know as tranqs, or sedatives. They manage anxiety.


    Does anyone here know if thes drugs affect fat loss?
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    Ask your doctor...
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    bttt
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    bttt
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  5. #5
    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    yes, sedatives slow your metabolism.
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    Yes, benzos can cause weight gain in some patients. There are probably a few reasons for this. The obvious one is that they are sedatives, so you're less energetic on them. Another logical reason would be that the liver processes them much the same way as it processes alcohol. In fact, valium is commonly used with alcoholics in rehab to trick the body and ease withdrawal symptoms. We all know that alcohol, when in your system, becomes the first priority for your liver putting all of your food on hold until it's processed.

    But, benzos aren't a long-term solution anyway, or shouldn't be. They are highly addictive, and the withdrawal symptoms from them are the longest lasting by far of any drug (up to 6 weeks) and also extremely painful and debilitating - sweats, intense shakes, severe headaches, seizures. Withdrawal from benzos, in severe cases of addiction, is potentially fatal if not undertaken with supervision of a professional. A responsible doctor wouldn't use them as a regular, long-term solution, so if you're only going to be on them for a short time, you shouldn't really be concerned about weight gain too much.
    Last edited by vb1175; 01-21-2006 at 01:47 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by skelooth
    yes, sedatives slow your metabolism.
    Benzodiazepines potentiate GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS. I'm not seeing how this would slow metabolism. I'm also not seeing how hepatic metabolism of benzos can be compared to the body's metabolism of alcohol. Benzos do not supply a significant source of calories, which cannot be said about alcohol.

    I agree they should be used short-term, they are addictive, and withdrawl is a bitch, but the question was about fat loss.
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  8. #8
    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    anything that 'sedates' you will slow your metabolism because by nature you will be expending less energy. Less physical movement, less desire for physical movement = lower metabolism.

    At medically prescribed doses for minor issues it might not seem like a big deal, but even doing things like tapping your foot or pacing burn calories.
    Last edited by skelooth; 01-21-2006 at 08:17 PM.
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  9. #9
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    "Less physical movement, less desire for physical movement = lower metabolism."

    well strike that logic.

    my physical excersize hasnt changed at all. im very active, i walk to class, work in labs, i run 3x a week and lift 3x a week. ive been lifting more weight, and running faster. (im CUTTING, yet still getting stronger and able to run faster and further).

    id like to hear the justification BEYOND the fact that it may demotivate you from doing excserize (because i havent experienced that)

    i do understand that these are a short term solution. short term can mean 6-12 months though.

    "Benzodiazepines potentiate GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS. I'm not seeing how this would slow metabolism. I'm also not seeing how hepatic metabolism of benzos can be compared to the body's metabolism of alcohol. Benzos do not supply a significant source of calories, which cannot be said about alcohol.

    I agree they should be used short-term, they are addictive, and withdrawl is a bitch, but the question was about fat loss."

    Yes. Im HOPING this is the case. I mean, people drink liters of ethanol (of which perhaps only 8% is alcohol, but you get the ida) so i dont see how the hepatic stress when im only taking like .5mg every 3 days is comperable.

    Im trying to use it as little as possible. Sometimes I cant sleep, no sleep means no GH and muscle repair. Plus i have major stress, that **** eats muscle too. Perhaps without i could be burning less fat. I just dont know.
    Last edited by Joe00224223; 01-21-2006 at 08:36 PM.
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  10. #10
    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    like i said, at medically prescribed doses for minor issues it really might not seem like much. The fact is your metabolism will be slowed. Peroid. It is the opposite of a stimulant. I'm not saying it will make it impossible to lose fat.

    as per the original question:
    Do 'benzos' (klonpin, xanex) effect fat loss?

    Yes, they slow down your metabolism. It is directly dependent upon how you react to them and how much and when you are dosing. Dosing a little at night to sleep is probably not going to have ANY negative effect. Taking them 3x a day to cope with some type of social anxiety WOULD. Don't ask a question and then get snippy because you don't like the answer. Especially when it was a half assed broad question that never mentioned WTF you're taking or how much. I'm not a ****ing e-mind reader.

    You obviously already had your answer before asking. So why don't you go chat with your doctor buddies about it over a game of golf?
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    Im not being snippy at all. I asked a question and I welcome all input. I simply rejected your logic given the details i know about my own use and progress. Can you handle that?

    I was looking for someone to show that it slows your basal metabolic rate independant of how active you choose to be. Nobody has argued thats the case.

    Youve got some rage issues. What kind of hormones are you taking?
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  12. #12
    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    Then say all of that when you ask your your question.

    Your question has suddenly gone from:
    Do 'benzos' (klonpin, xanex) effect fat loss?
    The may be more commonly know as tranqs, or sedatives. They manage anxiety.
    Does anyone here know if thes drugs affect fat loss?
    to

    Do 'benzos' (klonpin, xanex) effect fat loss?
    The may be more commonly know as tranqs, or sedatives. They manage anxiety.
    Does anyone here know if thes drugs affect fat loss?

    im only taking like .5mg every 3 days

    my physical excersize hasnt changed at all. im very active, i walk to class, work in labs, i run 3x a week and lift 3x a week. ive been lifting more weight, and running faster. (im CUTTING, yet still getting stronger and able to run faster and further).
    I was looking for someone to show that it slows your basal metabolic rate independant of how active you choose to be.
    as per the question:
    I was looking for someone to show that it slows your basal metabolic rate independant of how active you choose to be.

    see my first answer. Tapping your finger on a desk is an involuntary action. Fidgeting is subconcious. You do not always "choose" how active you choose to be. There have been studies that show people who fidget burn significantly more calories per day than people who don't.
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  13. #13
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    Did that study look at sedentary or active individuals?
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    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    you've completely missed the point. The ACT OF FIDGETING BURNS CALORIES. Okay? It doesn't even matter, you said you take a half mg every 3 days. That's like nothing. It's not even worth discussing. If you're so worried go ask the doctor how prescribed it.
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    Originally Posted by skelooth
    you've completely missed the point. The ACT OF FIDGETING BURNS CALORIES. Okay? It doesn't even matter, you said you take a half mg every 3 days. That's like nothing. It's not even worth discussing. If you're so worried go ask the doctor how prescribed it.
    Can you link me to that study.

    You said that the study found that people who fidgeted burned more calories, this only shows correlation. Id be interested to see if the study stated it was a causation.
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  16. #16
    Talculus Cutor DecemberDays86's Avatar
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    why not just get a standard SSRI for reducing anxiety? the only benefit I see of using benzodiazepines is that they act quick.
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  17. #17
    One more time skelooth's Avatar
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    Can you link me to that study.
    You are just as capable of using google as I am.
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    Originally Posted by skelooth
    You are just as capable of using google as I am.
    reow.

    >hides<
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  19. #19
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    I just read an interesting article and look forward to more fidgeting... out of interest i wonder if sitting here typing counts as being fidgety... an extra 350 cals burnt a day is a lot i might have to just post more
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    Children, please.

    There are a lot of garbage studies out there regarding anxiolytic medications, just like any other medication with a social stigma. There has to be a well described mechanism of cause and effect before any of us should say benzos slow fat loss (still the original question, right?). For example, it is well understood that SSRIs can cause sexual dysfunction. So why do so many people who begin taking SSRIs report a better sex life? Because their depression is better. People suffering from anxiety may just as easily decrease their overall energy expenditure when left untreated, make less frequent trips to the gym, and in fact do whatever calming activities they can (like laying in a dark, quiet room) to relieve their symptoms. Treat their symptoms, and they're back in the gym. All of this is totally meaningless, because none of it links benzos to changes in your BMR (which does not depend on finger tapping), RQ, or fat oxidation. Potentiating GABA (benzos, acting centrally) and whatever the hell "stimulants" do (acting peripherally, and it wasn't specified, are we talking release of norepi, increasing T3/4, what?) isn't a direct opposite effect.

    I know we're all capable of googling the same **** (who uses google to look for research papers? Pubmed is much more efficient). The fact is, I can't find a study where benzos are linked with a decrease in fat oxidation. So if you know of one, and you can spare the time, could someone please post it? Take this for example:

    Effect of olanzapine on body composition and energy expenditure in adults with first-episode psychosis.

    Graham KA, Perkins DO, Edwards LJ, Barrier RC Jr, Lieberman JA, Harp JB.

    Department of Psychiatry, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 27599, USA.

    OBJECTIVE: Weight gain is a commonly observed adverse effect of atypical antipsychotic medications, but associated changes in energy balance and body composition are not well defined. The authors report here the effect of olanzapine on body weight, body composition, resting energy expenditure, and substrate oxidation as well as leptin, insulin, glucose, and lipid levels in a group of outpatient volunteers with first-episode psychosis. METHOD: Nine adults (six men and three women) experiencing their first psychotic episode who had no previous history of antipsychotic drug therapy began a regimen of olanzapine and were studied within 7 weeks and approximately 12 weeks after olanzapine initiation. RESULTS: After approximately 12 weeks of olanzapine therapy, the median increase in body weight was 4.7 kg, a significant increase of 7.3% from first observation. Body fat, measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, increased significantly, with a propensity for central fat deposition. Lean body mass and bone mineral content did not change. Resting energy expenditure, measured by indirect calorimetry, did not change. Respiratory quotient significantly increased 0.12 with olanzapine and was greatest in those who gained >5% of their initial weight. Fasting insulin, C-peptide, and triglyceride levels significantly increased, but there were no changes in glucose levels; total, high density lipoprotein, or low density lipoprotein cholesterol levels; or leptin levels. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to have induced an increase in central body fat deposition, insulin, and triglyceride levels, suggesting the possible development of insulin resistance. The decrease in fat oxidation may be secondary or predispose patients to olanzapine-induced weight gain.

    I can't find a similar study looking at benzos. All I can find are studies that have shown that benzos blunt the changes in RQ associated with anxiety provoking stimuli (which, interestingly enough, both increase and decrease RQ based on the nature of the stimulus). And, in fact, versed (a benzo, obviously) has been used as a CONTROL for studies looking at changes in fat oxidation during the administration of lipid emulsified agents such as propofol.
    Last edited by travis h; 01-22-2006 at 08:24 AM.
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    Originally Posted by DecemberDays86
    why not just get a standard SSRI for reducing anxiety? the only benefit I see of using benzodiazepines is that they act quick.
    wrong
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    Originally Posted by travis h
    Children, please.

    There are a lot of garbage studies out there regarding anxiolytic medications, just like any other medication with a social stigma. There has to be a well described mechanism of cause and effect before any of us should say benzos slow fat loss (still the original question, right?). For example, it is well understood that SSRIs can cause sexual dysfunction. So why do so many people who begin taking SSRIs report a better sex life? Because their depression is better. People suffering from anxiety may just as easily decrease their overall energy expenditure when left untreated, make less frequent trips to the gym, and in fact do whatever calming activities they can (like laying in a dark, quiet room) to relieve their symptoms. Treat their symptoms, and they're back in the gym. All of this is totally meaningless, because none of it links benzos to changes in your BMR (which does not depend on finger tapping), RQ, or fat oxidation. Potentiating GABA (benzos, acting centrally) and whatever the hell "stimulants" do (acting peripherally, and it wasn't specified, are we talking release of norepi, increasing T3/4, what?) isn't a direct opposite effect.

    I know we're all capable of googling the same **** (who uses google to look for research papers? Pubmed is much more efficient). The fact is, I can't find a study where benzos are linked with a decrease in fat oxidation. So if you know of one, and you can spare the time, could someone please post it? Take this for example:

    Effect of olanzapine on body composition and energy expenditure in adults with first-episode psychosis.

    Graham KA, Perkins DO, Edwards LJ, Barrier RC Jr, Lieberman JA, Harp JB.

    Department of Psychiatry, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 27599, USA.

    OBJECTIVE: Weight gain is a commonly observed adverse effect of atypical antipsychotic medications, but associated changes in energy balance and body composition are not well defined. The authors report here the effect of olanzapine on body weight, body composition, resting energy expenditure, and substrate oxidation as well as leptin, insulin, glucose, and lipid levels in a group of outpatient volunteers with first-episode psychosis. METHOD: Nine adults (six men and three women) experiencing their first psychotic episode who had no previous history of antipsychotic drug therapy began a regimen of olanzapine and were studied within 7 weeks and approximately 12 weeks after olanzapine initiation. RESULTS: After approximately 12 weeks of olanzapine therapy, the median increase in body weight was 4.7 kg, a significant increase of 7.3% from first observation. Body fat, measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, increased significantly, with a propensity for central fat deposition. Lean body mass and bone mineral content did not change. Resting energy expenditure, measured by indirect calorimetry, did not change. Respiratory quotient significantly increased 0.12 with olanzapine and was greatest in those who gained >5% of their initial weight. Fasting insulin, C-peptide, and triglyceride levels significantly increased, but there were no changes in glucose levels; total, high density lipoprotein, or low density lipoprotein cholesterol levels; or leptin levels. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to have induced an increase in central body fat deposition, insulin, and triglyceride levels, suggesting the possible development of insulin resistance. The decrease in fat oxidation may be secondary or predispose patients to olanzapine-induced weight gain.

    I can't find a similar study looking at benzos. All I can find are studies that have shown that benzos blunt the changes in RQ associated with anxiety provoking stimuli (which, interestingly enough, both increase and decrease RQ based on the nature of the stimulus). And, in fact, versed (a benzo, obviously) has been used as a CONTROL for studies looking at changes in fat oxidation during the administration of lipid emulsified agents such as propofol.

    So, you conclusion is that you cant see any real evidence that it will slow my metabolim and significantly effect fat loss?

    (zyprexa (olanzapin) is not a benzo. its a fundamentally modified one, a 'thienobenzodiazepine', so different that people call it an 'atypical antipsychotic' it seems). From what ive goggled it appears to be so different that its not considered in the same league as xanax and klonopin.

    for your viewing pleasure;

    http://www.mpa.se/mono/images/olanzap.gif
    http://www.druginfonet.com/klonopin.gif
    Last edited by Joe00224223; 01-25-2006 at 08:01 PM.
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    I was making a guess about why they can cause weight gain, but the fact is it's one of the side effects. I was on them in the past, and was advised of it by my doctor. And the body does view benzos (at least some) similarly as alcohol. Valium is used to reduce withdrawal symptoms in rehabbing alcoholics because of its ability to fool the body. I don't recall the exact scientific specifics, but it has to do with how the liver processes it. If it interests you, search on google. Valium is a widely used aid in alcohol rehab. There is information all over the place about it.

    Originally Posted by travis h
    Benzodiazepines potentiate GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS. I'm not seeing how this would slow metabolism. I'm also not seeing how hepatic metabolism of benzos can be compared to the body's metabolism of alcohol. Benzos do not supply a significant source of calories, which cannot be said about alcohol.

    I agree they should be used short-term, they are addictive, and withdrawl is a bitch, but the question was about fat loss.
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    If you're using them as an occasional sleeping pill, I think your concerns are unwarranted. Ask your doctor or pharmacist, or go to a med forum if you're really concerned. You seem to have proven to yourself, though, that you don't experience the weight gain side effect. Not everyone will necessarily exhibit every side effect of a given drug.

    By the way, the guy above wasn't saying that Zyprexa is a benzo, he was saying that it was a drug where research had shown correlation between its use and metabolic effects, unlike benzos for which he could find no published studies. If you read his entire post, you would know this. At this point, it's pretty obvious you're just trying to be an obnoxious know-it-all prick. Why even continue this thread?
    Last edited by vb1175; 01-25-2006 at 08:16 PM.
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    Originally Posted by vb1175
    If you're using them as an occasional sleeping pill, I think your concerns are unwarranted. Ask your doctor or pharmacist, or go to a med forum if you're really concerned about. You seem to have proven to yourself, though, that you don't experience the weight gain side effect. Not everyone will necessarily exhibit every side effect of a given drug.

    By the way, the guy above wasn't saying that Zyprexa is a benzo, he was saying that it was a drug where research had shown correlation between its use and metabolic effects, unlike benzos for which there are no published studies.

    No, Ive been taking them for a month and still seen fat loss, so i have proven that they dont cause weight gain.

    Im just trying to figure out if they are hurting my cutting progress.
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    Obviously, if you're on a diet and exercising, you wouldn't gain weight. Plus, you're taking such a small amount very infrequently. For those who take them and don't eat well to begin with, weight gain can be a concern.
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    Originally Posted by Joe00224223

    (zyprexa (olanzapin) is not a benzo.
    Yea, that's why I said that I couldn't find any similar study on benzos (implying that the study I posted was not on benzos). I was just trying to provide an example of such a study that actually provides evidence for changes in body fat metabolism.

    vb1175,

    Yes, benzos are used in the treatment of alcohol withdrawl (and I have used them for this and many similar purposes in the past, as recently as tonight, actually). They act through the same receptor mechanisms, which also explains why alcohol intoxication and benzo intoxication present in a similar way. However, alcohol slows fat loss through providing an alternative source of caloric energy through it's metabolism, not through it's potentiation of GABA. Benzos, while sharing a similar mechanism, do not provide a significant source of caloric energy through their metabolism and could not contribute to a blunting of fat loss by the the same mechanism as alcohol. Now, this is not to say that weight gain isn't a potential side effect of benzo use, but that's a different question. Weight gain is also a potential side effect of television use. For me to warn people that benzo use will contribute to changes in fat metabolism, or even that it will slow the rate of fat loss during a standard exercise/diet program I would have to have a mechanism to back that up. I'm still looking, but I haven't found one.

    So to the original poster, I think vb1175 agree...don't sweat it. If your diet and workout program are in check, you are not at a significant disadvantage from short term benzo use.
    Last edited by travis h; 01-25-2006 at 09:37 PM.
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