Attempting My First Cut! Need Help!

[ProjectJanus]

I've started my cut about a week or so ago, I've got my diet down, and I'm doing 30 minutes of intense cardio 5 times a week. I bulked from about 200 lbs to 215, and with spring break quickly approaching, I'm starting my cut that I am hoping will last me for all of February and maybe into part of March. Since I've started my cut I have gone from 215 to 211 lbs, although I'm assuming this is all water weight.

My main question is with my supplements. Today is my last day on creatine until I start my bulk up again in the spring. I also take BCAA's, whey, Fish Oil, ECGC, and Animal Pak. I have heard from someone to stop taking almost all of my supps, including BCAA's, whey, and creatine. Is this a good idea? I can understand stopping creatine, but why whey or BCAA's?

As I stated in the title, this is my first attempt at a cut, so any advice or anything is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I'd like to be somewhere around 200-204 lbs. by march.

[ProjectJanus]

Bump before I hit the gym.

[98bigbody]

211 to 200 is easily attainable by march. Seems like we're cutting for the same reason. As far as supplements go i'd take everything you're taking now cept for the creatine. Good luck

[Salaam86]

Yea, there's no reason to stop those supplements, I dont even think that creatine is an issue (depending on how much bloat it gives you). The BCAA's show the most benefit while on a cut in my opinion. Also you might find it to your advantage to supplement with an anti-cortisol product like lean xtreme or reduce xt. This will help in combating the catabolic effect cortisol can have on your body, especially with the amount of cardio your doing. Other than that, make sure your eating 6 or more meals a day and your lifting heavy. Also, monitor your fatigue and don't over-reach/over train. Im cutting right now myself with 1600/1700 calories with low carbs (58% protein/12% carbs/30% fat with a carb refeed meal every third day) and my strength is still improving (albeit at a slower rate than it would be if I was bulking).

[ProjectJanus]

Originally Posted by 98bigbody

211 to 200 is easily attainable by march. Seems like we're cutting for the same reason. As far as supplements go i'd take everything you're taking now cept for the creatine. Good luck

I appreciate the advice. I'm hoping to be fairly cut by then; I'm heading to Hong Kong for the first time with a friend. He's got some hot friends.

Originally Posted by FormerFatBoy86

Yea, there's no reason to stop those supplements, I dont even think that creatine is an issue (depending on how much bloat it gives you). The BCAA's show the most benefit while on a cut in my opinion. Also you might find it to your advantage to supplement with an anti-cortisol product like lean xtreme or reduce xt. This will help in combating the catabolic effect cortisol can have on your body, especially with the amount of cardio your doing. Other than that, make sure your eating 6 or more meals a day and your lifting heavy. Also, monitor your fatigue and don't over-reach/over train. Im cutting right now myself with 1600/1700 calories with low carbs (58% protein/12% carbs/30% fat with a carb refeed meal every third day) and my strength is still improving (albeit at a slower rate than it would be if I was bulking).

Creatine gives me a slight bloat but nothing terrible. I'll look into both Lean Xtreme and Reduce XT. I haven't heard of any type of supps that can help reduce catabolism. The meal thing is my biggest problem. I go to a prep school so there are specific times for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I've got a bunch of tuna in my room that I try to snack on when I can but it's really hard to keep with it. I am also worried about a loss of strength. I'm an athlete and I need my power for my upcoming rugby season. A scholarship for a PG year in Scotland is at stake so I have to make sure that when April rolls around I'll be in peak condition. I was thinking of cutting up through the first week or two of March, then resume my heavy lifting to regain my strength that I need for the season.

I figure for the duration of my cut I'll rely on high rep/low weight not only because I've heard that it helps with definition, but it will also switch up my workout plan.

[Salaam86]

Originally Posted by ProjectJanus

I appreciate the advice. I'm hoping to be fairly cut by then; I'm heading to Hong Kong for the first time with a friend. He's got some hot friends.




Creatine gives me a slight bloat but nothing terrible. I'll look into both Lean Xtreme and Reduce XT. I haven't heard of any type of supps that can help reduce catabolism. The meal thing is my biggest problem. I go to a prep school so there are specific times for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I've got a bunch of tuna in my room that I try to snack on when I can but it's really hard to keep with it. I am also worried about a loss of strength. I'm an athlete and I need my power for my upcoming rugby season. A scholarship for a PG year in Scotland is at stake so I have to make sure that when April rolls around I'll be in peak condition. I was thinking of cutting up through the first week or two of March, then resume my heavy lifting to regain my strength that I need for the season.

I figure for the duration of my cut I'll rely on high rep/low weight not only because I've heard that it helps with definition, but it will also switch up my workout plan.

First, good luck in your rugby, thats a tough ass sport. Second, cutting for 2 weeks really isnt gonna do anything for you, the only weight loss you'll see will be a majority of water weight and glycogen. It'll take between 4 to 8 weeks for real and sustainable body composition changes. Third, high reps do not tone up your muscles, that is a myth and a fallacy. Muscle is either bigger or smaller and the fat covering a muscle eithe gets bigger a smaller. This is why high intensity low volume is more preferable to low intensity high volume. Higher reps are implement to promote hypertrophy, but this is at the expense of greater fatigue and the need for longer recovery to promote a healthy central nervous system (CNS). Now on a real cut not a diet, your not going to be getting surplus you'd need for any substantial hypertrophy (muscle gain) if any. Now the ability to lift heavier weights is roughly determined by your nervous systems ability to adapt and deal with the neurological stress of the heavier load. This is why powerlifters do not lift as often as bodybuilders and actually deload significantly before a lifting event in order for them to be at peak mental capacity for their competition.

So in your case, since your in a low calorie environment you will find it a waste of effort to do exercises geared towards muscle hypertrophy and just as important, since you are in a low calorie environment your CNS will need more time not less to properly recover from the work outs during your cut. High fatigue hypertrophy exercises performed on a cut will put too much stress on your body and lead you to a state of over-reaching/over training that much quicker than usual and this means strength loss and muscle catabolism.

lol man im sure i could of explained that in less words, but thats basically my reasoning why I recommend what I do. I hope this helps and makes sense to you.

As far as your meals go, you gotta get them in. No excuses. I work 40 hours a week and go to school twice a week for 3 hours at a time and I still eat 6 meals a day. Where theres a will theres a way my friend. Try carrying tuna pouches and a plastic fork around with you. They dont have to be drained, just rip them open, stick a fork in em and eat. Carry almonds with you and eat em with your tuna. Its all about planning, time management, and dedication. Good luck.

Oh and the lean xtreme is an anti-cortisol supplement and elevated levels of cortisol can lead to catabolism and a greater accumulation of adipose tissue in certain areas like the stomach. Cutting is stressful on the body, we wanna do everything we can to prevent the negative effects of that stress.

[ProjectJanus]

Originally Posted by FormerFatBoy86

First, good luck in your rugby, thats a tough ass sport. Second, cutting for 2 weeks really isnt gonna do anything for you, the only weight loss you'll see will be a majority of water weight and glycogen. It'll take between 4 to 8 weeks for real and sustainable body composition changes. Third, high reps do not tone up your muscles, that is a myth and a fallacy. Muscle is either bigger or smaller and the fat covering a muscle eithe gets bigger a smaller. This is why high intensity low volume is more preferable to low intensity high volume. Higher reps are implement to promote hypertrophy, but this is at the expense of greater fatigue and the need for longer recovery to promote a healthy central nervous system (CNS). Now on a real cut not a diet, your not going to be getting surplus you'd need for any substantial hypertrophy (muscle gain) if any. Now the ability to lift heavier weights is roughly determined by your nervous systems ability to adapt and deal with the neurological stress of the heavier load. This is why powerlifters do not lift as often as bodybuilders and actually deload significantly before a lifting event in order for them to be at peak mental capacity for their competition.

So in your case, since your in a low calorie environment you will find it a waste of effort to do exercises geared towards muscle hypertrophy and just as important, since you are in a low calorie environment your CNS will need more time not less to properly recover from the work outs during your cut. High fatigue hypertrophy exercises performed on a cut will put too much stress on your body and lead you to a state of over-reaching/over training that much quicker than usual and this means strength loss and muscle catabolism.

lol man im sure i could of explained that in less words, but thats basically my reasoning why I recommend what I do. I hope this helps and makes sense to you.

As far as your meals go, you gotta get them in. No excuses. I work 40 hours a week and go to school twice a week for 3 hours at a time and I still eat 6 meals a day. Where theres a will theres a way my friend. Try carrying tuna pouches and a plastic fork around with you. They dont have to be drained, just rip them open, stick a fork in em and eat. Carry almonds with you and eat em with your tuna. Its all about planning, time management, and dedication. Good luck.

Oh and the lean xtreme is an anti-cortisol supplement and elevated levels of cortisol can lead to catabolism and a greater accumulation of adipose tissue in certain areas like the stomach. Cutting is stressful on the body, we wanna do everything we can to prevent the negative effects of that stress.

Reps for the help. First off, I think you misunderstood the time period in which I am cutting. I'm not cutting for 2 weeks, I'm cutting for the rest of January, all of February, and partly into March.

Let me see if I can get this straight, I should continue my regular training, with high weight/high reps but I'll need a longer period of rest between workouts because my body will already be under a lot of stress from the cut. I will need to be careful because of the tremendous stress from the combined effects of heavy lifting and cutting. Right?

Those tuna packet things are so awesome. I've got a huge stash of 'em up here in my dorm. I should probably start throwing one or two in my bag and see if I can scarf one of them down while I'm in between classes. I haven't heard much about almonds, I'm assuming they are high in proteins and fatty acids. I will pick some up this weekend, along with the massive stock of salmon packet things I'm getting too.

So from what you're saying, Lean Xtreme is pretty important to take while I cut?

Again, thanks for the help.

[vitaminX225]

I would keep the bcaa's or switch to Xtend, keep the fish oils. I would also add CLA, sesamin, and glutaform.

[Salaam86]

Originally Posted by ProjectJanus

Reps for the help. First off, I think you misunderstood the time period in which I am cutting. I'm not cutting for 2 weeks, I'm cutting for the rest of January, all of February, and partly into March.

Let me see if I can get this straight, I should continue my regular training, with high weight/high reps but I'll need a longer period of rest between workouts because my body will already be under a lot of stress from the cut. I will need to be careful because of the tremendous stress from the combined effects of heavy lifting and cutting. Right?

Those tuna packet things are so awesome. I've got a huge stash of 'em up here in my dorm. I should probably start throwing one or two in my bag and see if I can scarf one of them down while I'm in between classes. I haven't heard much about almonds, I'm assuming they are high in proteins and fatty acids. I will pick some up this weekend, along with the massive stock of salmon packet things I'm getting too.

So from what you're saying, Lean Xtreme is pretty important to take while I cut?

Again, thanks for the help.

Oh, well that makes a lot more sense. Continue your weight traing but do HIGH weight with LOW Reps, each set with 5-8 reps at or around 80% of your 1RM. This is the best way to keep your strength up without sacrificing excess energy. Thats why things like the Pendalay and Bill Star 5x5 program are strength training programs. If you lift this way, you wont need to take extra days off because you would theoretically be getting the maximal output from your body without excess energy waste. But take things a step at a time and gauge how your body reacts, like you said this will be putting your body in a high stress environment. The body doesnt like to go in a calorie deficit, not only do we wanna put him there but we gotta keep its dumb ass from feeding on our muscle. The only way we can do this is through balance and moderation. Its better to train smart than train hard.

Yea those tuna packets are a life saver, I clean out the stores whenever I go pick mine up. And the almonds are a great EFA source and I use them on my diet which is low carb. What kind of diet are you doing? What are your macros looking like?

Like all supplements, lean xtreme will only be of use if everything else in your diet and training is correct. But yes I think it is an effective supplement. Im using it right now and i like it. Do some research on it, read some logs and find out if its something you could use. I think you'll like it.

If you have any other questions let me know, im happy to help. Im cutting myself so I know how important this is to you, to do it and do it right.

[Salaam86]

Originally Posted by vitaminX225

I would keep the bcaa's or switch to Xtend, keep the fish oils. I would also add CLA, sesamin, and glutaform.

I agree, I use xtend myself, just cause it tastes so damn good and it helps with the occasional sugar craving. CLA is beneficial, sesamin as well (they say that sesamin has a possibility of estrogenic properities, but Im not to sure how true this is and to what degree if any this would negatively impact our endocrine system), glutamine is important to have for a healthy immune system, but correct me if im wrong, but doesn't extend have glutamine in it as well?

[ProjectJanus]

Originally Posted by FormerFatBoy86

Oh, well that makes a lot more sense. Continue your weight traing but do HIGH weight with LOW Reps, each set with 5-8 reps at or around 80% of your 1RM. This is the best way to keep your strength up without sacrificing excess energy. Thats why things like the Pendalay and Bill Star 5x5 program are strength training programs. If you lift this way, you wont need to take extra days off because you would theoretically be getting the maximal output from your body without excess energy waste. But take things a step at a time and gauge how your body reacts, like you said this will be putting your body in a high stress environment. The body doesnt like to go in a calorie deficit, not only do we wanna put him there but we gotta keep its dumb ass from feeding on our muscle. The only way we can do this is through balance and moderation. Its better to train smart than train hard.

Yea those tuna packets are a life saver, I clean out the stores whenever I go pick mine up. And the almonds are a great EFA source and I use them on my diet which is low carb. What kind of diet are you doing? What are your macros looking like?

Like all supplements, lean xtreme will only be of use if everything else in your diet and training is correct. But yes I think it is an effective supplement. Im using it right now and i like it. Do some research on it, read some logs and find out if its something you could use. I think you'll like it.

If you have any other questions let me know, im happy to help. Im cutting myself so I know how important this is to you, to do it and do it right.

I already do 3x8 sets of about 80% of my max. I'll probably end up changing it to about 3x5 but keep the weight the same.

Since my school cooks for us I can never say what I am going to eat except for breakfast. Generally, my meals go like this:

Breakfast- Bowl of Grape Nuts with Skim milk, two packets of unflavored oatmeal and a glass of water.

Lunch is generally some type of vegetable (usually broccoli, spinach, peas, or green beans), a small portion of a carb such as brown rice, a salad with no dressing, and some type of lean meat (todays lunch was two large baked plain chicken breasts) along with 2 glasses of water and an apple.

Dinner always sucks here so I'm usually limited to a vegetable and a bowl of cereal with an apple and a glass of water.

Of course when I can, I snack on tuna or an apple if I can snag one.

I've read up a little on Lean Xtreme and it sounds pretty interesting. Could it be used in conjunction with a fat burner if I decide to take one? I've still yet to read a log on it, but if I can find one I will.

[vitaminX225]

Originally Posted by FormerFatBoy86

I agree, I use xtend myself, just cause it tastes so damn good and it helps with the occasional sugar craving. CLA is beneficial, sesamin as well (they say that sesamin has a possibility of estrogenic properities, but Im not to sure how true this is and to what degree if any this would negatively impact our endocrine system), glutamine is important to have for a healthy immune system, but correct me if im wrong, but doesn't extend have glutamine in it as well?

Yes it does glutamine, i take glutamine in the morning and before i goto bed.

[Salaam86]

Originally Posted by ProjectJanus

I already do 3x8 sets of about 80% of my max. I'll probably end up changing it to about 3x5 but keep the weight the same.

Since my school cooks for us I can never say what I am going to eat except for breakfast. Generally, my meals go like this:

Breakfast- Bowl of Grape Nuts with Skim milk, two packets of unflavored oatmeal and a glass of water.

Lunch is generally some type of vegetable (usually broccoli, spinach, peas, or green beans), a small portion of a carb such as brown rice, a salad with no dressing, and some type of lean meat (todays lunch was two large baked plain chicken breasts) along with 2 glasses of water and an apple.

Dinner always sucks here so I'm usually limited to a vegetable and a bowl of cereal with an apple and a glass of water.

Of course when I can, I snack on tuna or an apple if I can snag one.

I've read up a little on Lean Xtreme and it sounds pretty interesting. Could it be used in conjunction with a fat burner if I decide to take one? I've still yet to read a log on it, but if I can find one I will.

Damn man, you need more protein!!! Make sure to log everything you eat, so you know exactly what your putting in your body. Just as a general critique, your breakfast needs to be your biggest meal of the day and you need to add some protein and EFA's to that to moderate your insulin and give your muscles some fuel. Remember that your body's been asleep for 8 hours and could use some protein when it wakes up. Lunch aint that bad, again you could add some EFA's in there as well for insulin management. As far as dinner, you need to limit carb intake before bed to just strictly fibrous vegetables. Your body will just store those extra carbs as fat if your not careful.

Im not saying you need to do what I do, everybody reacts differently to different things but this is what my meal plan looks like. The only time its different is when I have a carb refeed day.

Meal 1: 6 egg whites, 1 large egg, 6 almonds, 1 oz of chicken, and 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 2: 5 oz of chicken or tuna, 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 3: 5 oz of chicken or tuna, 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 4: 4 oz of chicken or tuna 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 5 (Post-Workout): 1 scoop of GF-Pro in water, 1 scoop of intrabolic and 5 scoops of extend (drank during workout), 8 almonds, and 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 6: 4 oz. of chicken or tuna, 6 almonds, and 1 cup of spinach.

1637 Calories 53 grams of fat, 81 grams of carbs (35 grams of fiber), and 225 grams of protein.

All I drink is water or diet blueberry green tea. I dont mind eating the same thing day in and day out and i've been doing this for 8 weeks. This diet works for me, some people will say this is crazy or even stupid, but my body reacts well to it.

For your workouts I'd reccoment trying to do 5x5 at your 5RM, look into some strength training workouts and find one that you might like.

Lean Xtreme can be used with a stim no problem. Here's some logs I found, hope they help you some.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...highlight=lean

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...highlight=lean

I'll PM you two other logs I found. They're on a different site.

[ProjectJanus]

Originally Posted by FormerFatBoy86

Damn man, you need more protein!!! Make sure to log everything you eat, so you know exactly what your putting in your body. Just as a general critique, your breakfast needs to be your biggest meal of the day and you need to add some protein and EFA's to that to moderate your insulin and give your muscles some fuel. Remember that your body's been asleep for 8 hours and could use some protein when it wakes up. Lunch aint that bad, again you could add some EFA's in there as well for insulin management. As far as dinner, you need to limit carb intake before bed to just strictly fibrous vegetables. Your body will just store those extra carbs as fat if your not careful.

Im not saying you need to do what I do, everybody reacts differently to different things but this is what my meal plan looks like. The only time its different is when I have a carb refeed day.

Meal 1: 6 egg whites, 1 large egg, 6 almonds, 1 oz of chicken, and 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 2: 5 oz of chicken or tuna, 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 3: 5 oz of chicken or tuna, 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 4: 4 oz of chicken or tuna 8 almonds, 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 5 (Post-Workout): 1 scoop of GF-Pro in water, 1 scoop of intrabolic and 5 scoops of extend (drank during workout), 8 almonds, and 1 cup of spinach.
Meal 6: 4 oz. of chicken or tuna, 6 almonds, and 1 cup of spinach.

1637 Calories 53 grams of fat, 81 grams of carbs (35 grams of fiber), and 225 grams of protein.

All I drink is water or diet blueberry green tea. I dont mind eating the same thing day in and day out and i've been doing this for 8 weeks. This diet works for me, some people will say this is crazy or even stupid, but my body reacts well to it.

For your workouts I'd reccoment trying to do 5x5 at your 5RM, look into some strength training workouts and find one that you might like.

Lean Xtreme can be used with a stim no problem. Here's some logs I found, hope they help you some.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...highlight=lean

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...highlight=lean

I'll PM you two other logs I found. They're on a different site.

Yeah, after going back and looking at my diet I could definitely add some more protein. I went into town today and picked up tons and tons of tuna and salmon, along with a big jug of almonds. I couldn't help myself and ended up stopping into GNC. :P I ended up grabbing a jug of SuperPump250 as I am almost out of my current N.O. supp, and I also picked up a bottle of VPX Meltdown as it was on sale $20 off. I've been snacking on some almonds today between meals hoping to get a little extra protein. I asked the rep in GNC if they had Lean Xtreme or any type of a cortisol blocker and she hadn't even heard of it or anything like it, and I looked around and they didn't have anything similar to it that I could find.

I like your diet and I might try to incorporate some of it into mine. I'm thinking that for breakfast and/or dinner I could just bring a packet of tuna or salmon and eat that as my main dish. The only downside is that it could get expensive. I think I could live on that diet though, it's not like I've got any other good choices here. The only thing I drink is water, albeit sometimes it's flavored. The only other thing I'll drink is milk and that's when it is in cereal or in my protein shake.

Now that I am going into my cut, would it make sense to make a pre w.o. protein shake to help with the catabolism?