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  1. #1
    Registered User X-Mark-X's Avatar
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    Maltodextrin, do weight gainers = fat gainers?

    Ok so I was looking at cytogainer I believe it's called and its main source of calories comes from carbs, more specifically, maltodextrin. It claims that maltodextrin is a complex carb and that it won't cause an insulin spike and won't make me fat, but I'm skeptical. I googled it and apperantly maltodextrin is technically a complex carb because of it's chemical structure, however, a couple of things I read actually said it acted like a simple carb anyway.

    Basically it's a pain in the ass to eat so much food and a gainer would help me out a lot for the sake of convenience, but if it's just sugary protein powder then I don't want any part of it. So, is cytogainer (or any other weight gainer for that matter) going to make me fat or is maltodextrin a good source of carbs? Also, if maltodextrin is just sugary crap, would it still be ok to take a gainer shake like 30 minutes pre-workout?
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  2. #2
    Registered User icery's Avatar
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    carb source doesn't matter. malto is a fine source of carbohydrate. it'll cause a spike but thats not what changes your body composition.. i use to make 4 MRPS a day all made with maltodextrin
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  3. #3
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    icery is right, although i wouldn't make that many MRPs in a day LOL! make sure to get plenty of real food.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Sim882's Avatar
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    Malto has highest GI of all carbs.

    It is normally just use PWO. At other times, it will promote fat storage, and is empty, ****ty calories.

    Make your oat weight gainer, could taste better too:
    - milk, banana, whey, oat bran, cinnonom, PB, etc,
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  5. #5
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sim882 View Post
    Malto has highest GI of all carbs.

    It is normally just use PWO. At other times, it will promote fat storage, and is empty, ****ty calories.

    Make your oat weight gainer, could taste better too:
    - milk, banana, whey, oat bran, cinnonom, PB, etc,
    i agree with improving the gainer, but you're using the old school of thought. high GI does not equal fat gain.

    http://www.alanaragon.com/elements-c...mic-index.html

    references at the bottom.
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  6. #6
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    I skimmed through that article and I agree to some extent. But, what sounds good on paper doesn't always work in life situations. Really, your best bet is whole food for your meals. Post workout is the best time for a shake. A weight gainer with maltodextrin would be great here. In real world terms... High GI carbs have given the best results post workout. It is a fact that insulin is released with high blood sugar and that insulin can stop the body from using fat for fuel. We as bodybuilders know that Post workout we need quick carbs and protein.
    The rest of the day, you can use maltodextrin or sugar if you want but I know my energy levels stay stable when the majority of my carbs are from Oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc... There are tons of people who swear by this. Ronnie Coleman will agree, Jay Cutler will agree, even if some scientist doesn't. Maybe the GI tables are off, does that mean we should replace our tried and tested foods with whatever the hell we want because carbs are carbs apparently? I would have to say no. Should we start eating oatmeal post workout? Probably not.

    -I am a little sleepy right now, so hopefully it wasn't too confusing and I got my point across-
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  7. #7
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davin333 View Post
    I skimmed through that article and I agree to some extent. But, what sounds good on paper doesn't always work in life situations. Really, your best bet is whole food for your meals. Post workout is the best time for a shake. A weight gainer with maltodextrin would be great here. In real world terms... High GI carbs have given the best results post workout. It is a fact that insulin is released with high blood sugar and that insulin can stop the body from using fat for fuel. We as bodybuilders know that Post workout we need quick carbs and protein.
    The rest of the day, you can use maltodextrin or sugar if you want but I know my energy levels stay stable when the majority of my carbs are from Oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc... There are tons of people who swear by this. Ronnie Coleman will agree, Jay Cutler will agree, even if some scientist doesn't. Maybe the GI tables are off, does that mean we should replace our tried and tested foods with whatever the hell we want because carbs are carbs apparently? I would have to say no. Should we start eating oatmeal post workout? Probably not.

    -I am a little sleepy right now, so hopefully it wasn't too confusing and I got my point across-
    can you link a study supporting high GI over low GI for postworkout?
    Last edited by Julian_H; 01-19-2008 at 03:00 AM.
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  8. #8
    Registered User davin333's Avatar
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    No. Don't know where I could find a study right off hand and I don't really want to search for one. Here is something I got from Big Cat's profile on insulin though. Maybe this will help a bit. Insulin and high blood sugar go hand in hand.


    "Insulin is not an androgen, or a steroid for that matter. Insulin is a proteinaceous hormone that is secreted from the pancreas, mostly in response to high sugar levels. It's a polypeptide made from 51 amino acids, separated in an A and B chain by a sulfide bridge (Covalent bond). Its main use is to regulate blood sugar levels. If blood sugar levels are too high insulin is released, which stores more glucose in the cells as the polysaccharide glycogen, the prime energy source in the human body. This alone makes it a valuable hormone. But it also increases the uptake of other compounds into the cell. This includes protein. Since anabolic steroids increase protein synthesis, and we eat lots of protein, the only thing missing in that system is a way to get the amino acids to where the protein is synthesized. Insulin can do that. Its interesting to note that insulin does not have a direct negative feedback system like steroids do. When blood sugar levels drop, cells simply become more resistant to the insulin and don't receive as much of an impulse to store glycogen as they would at first. This is important, as it will have certain implications."
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  9. #9
    Registered User Sim882's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Julian_H View Post
    i agree with improving the gainer, but you're using the old school of thought. high GI does not equal fat gain.

    http://www.alanaragon.com/elements-c...mic-index.html

    references at the bottom.
    I don't subscribe to the fact that high GI necessarily indicates fat gain. Clearly, potatoes and to a greater extent pumpkin satisfy hunger.

    However, from personal experience, refined carbs, which tend to be high GI, such as a malto, do not satisfy hunger, and therefore encourage later binge eating, causing weight gain.
    I'm sure this depends on the person too, as whole wheat products also promote hunger to me, and tend to be medium GI and relatively unprocessed.

    I think there is an argument too that malto would spike insulin, increasing the chances of fat gain, or in the long term, reduce insulin sensitivity. Certaintly, I wouldn't consume malto with fats, because of risk of fat gain.

    In any event, its empty calories. White potatoes, and particularly pumpkin, are the only high GI carbs (except say PWO) that are worth eating iMO (and maybe small dosages of high GI fruits, e.g watermelon)
    Last edited by Sim882; 01-19-2008 at 03:14 PM.
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  10. #10
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sim882 View Post
    I don't subscribe to the fact that high GI necessarily indicates fat gain. Clearly, potatoes and to a greater extent pumpkin satisfy hunger.

    However, from personal experience, refined carbs, which tend to be high GI, such as a malto, do not satisfy hunger, and therefore encourage later binge eating, causing weight gain.
    I'm sure this depends on the person too, as whole wheat products also promote hunger to me, and tend to be medium GI and relatively unprocessed.

    I think there is an argument too that malto would spike insulin, increasing the chances of fat gain, or in the long term, reduce insulin sensitivity. Certaintly, I wouldn't consume malto with fats, because of risk of fat gain.

    In any event, its empty calories. White potatoes, and particularly pumpkin, are the only high GI carbs (except say PWO) that are worth eating iMO (and maybe small dosages of high GI fruits, e.g watermelon)
    indeed malto is not very satisfying because it doesn't sit in your stomach to digest! but this is very handy for those of us trying to cram calories without bloating like a balloon. i think it's rather silly to believe that something magical is going to happen if all your surplus calories come from something "healthier".

    i'm not advocating the use of malto for all your surplus calories. as with anything, finding a balance is key.
    Last edited by Julian_H; 01-20-2008 at 08:34 AM.
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  11. #11
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davin333 View Post
    No. Don't know where I could find a study right off hand and I don't really want to search for one. Here is something I got from Big Cat's profile on insulin though. Maybe this will help a bit. Insulin and high blood sugar go hand in hand.


    "Insulin is not an androgen, or a steroid for that matter. Insulin is a proteinaceous hormone that is secreted from the pancreas, mostly in response to high sugar levels. It's a polypeptide made from 51 amino acids, separated in an A and B chain by a sulfide bridge (Covalent bond). Its main use is to regulate blood sugar levels. If blood sugar levels are too high insulin is released, which stores more glucose in the cells as the polysaccharide glycogen, the prime energy source in the human body. This alone makes it a valuable hormone. But it also increases the uptake of other compounds into the cell. This includes protein. Since anabolic steroids increase protein synthesis, and we eat lots of protein, the only thing missing in that system is a way to get the amino acids to where the protein is synthesized. Insulin can do that. Its interesting to note that insulin does not have a direct negative feedback system like steroids do. When blood sugar levels drop, cells simply become more resistant to the insulin and don't receive as much of an impulse to store glycogen as they would at first. This is important, as it will have certain implications."
    of course insulin and high blood sugar go hand in hand, no one's questioning that.

    here's some news: dietitians and nutritionists are now being taught that it's overall carb consumption, NOT glycemic value, that leads to dangerous blood sugar levels (dangerous for unhealthy individuals at least). patients are now informed to reduce carbohydrate intake in meals to avoid this problem--naturally, most new diabetics are consuming too many carbs, that's how most of them got there. and of course, reducing sugar is an easy corner to cut because it has no micronutrient value, but that's just one step.

    in short, carbohydrates increase insulin. it doesn't matter where they come from.
    Last edited by Julian_H; 01-20-2008 at 08:31 AM.
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  12. #12
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    I agree. I am not against your theories. What I am trying to say is that. There are carbs that are basically proven to be better than others. I'm not talking GI. I am talking about how the carbs sources make us feel and how much they really do keep us full and so forth. For example: I know, Oatmeal is one of the best carbs I can consume for sustained energy and managable hunger. However, something like maltodextrin, or maybe table sugar would go right through me and not give me much energy and would only increase my hunger. I think the more processed a carb is, the worse. Not GI value. Like I said, I was sleepy the other night and my post may have been a bit confusing. I am an advocate of higher fat, moderate carb, and high protein diets. When I am cutting, I use Keto diets. So... What I am trying to say I guess is that I am not trying to convince you that you need tons of low GI carbs. What I am aiming at is that there is a difference between low quality, refined carbs and high quality unrefined carbs. You can't just use a lack of GI accuracy as an excuse to eat Sugar Puffs cereal as a substitute for oatmeal. Not saying you can't ever eat refined carbs. Just don't make them a staple, it's proven by trial and error that they aren't as efficient in the body.
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    if you guys want a low GI carbs soure for MRP's check out SuperCARB from Avant Research.

    same make up as sugar, only with a GI of 32.

    oats+supercarb+protein = delicious.
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    Originally Posted by X-Mark-X View Post
    Ok so I was looking at cytogainer I believe it's called and its main source of calories comes from carbs, more specifically, maltodextrin. It claims that maltodextrin is a complex carb and that it won't cause an insulin spike and won't make me fat, but I'm skeptical. I googled it and apperantly maltodextrin is technically a complex carb because of it's chemical structure, however, a couple of things I read actually said it acted like a simple carb anyway.

    Basically it's a pain in the ass to eat so much food and a gainer would help me out a lot for the sake of convenience, but if it's just sugary protein powder then I don't want any part of it. So, is cytogainer (or any other weight gainer for that matter) going to make me fat or is maltodextrin a good source of carbs? Also, if maltodextrin is just sugary crap, would it still be ok to take a gainer shake like 30 minutes pre-workout?
    I would have thought the cost of Cyto Gainer would have been a deterrent instead of the maltodextrin Like everyone else said, it would be cheaper, more beneficial and practical to make your own shakes. You control what goes inside for maximum benefits.

    When I had a weak appetite, I would make some carbohydrate shakes to go with my meals. Let's say you have some vegetables and a lean source of protein as a meal: blend up 1c milk and oats with some PB in a shake. It's easier than eating a bowl of rice or oatmeal on top of meat/veggies.
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    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/iss/matrix.html

    Thats the weight gainer I'm currently using, mainly because I was able to find 8lbs for $19.99. (yes poor)

    I used cytogainer for a long time though. Great PWO product IMO.
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    Registered User X-Mark-X's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cyde View Post
    I would have thought the cost of Cyto Gainer would have been a deterrent instead of the maltodextrin Like everyone else said, it would be cheaper, more beneficial and practical to make your own shakes. You control what goes inside for maximum benefits.

    When I had a weak appetite, I would make some carbohydrate shakes to go with my meals. Let's say you have some vegetables and a lean source of protein as a meal: blend up 1c milk and oats with some PB in a shake. It's easier than eating a bowl of rice or oatmeal on top of meat/veggies.
    It's really not that expensive. When you compare how many calories $1 of cytogainer gets you compared to how many calories a lot of other foods get you for $1 it works out to being somewhat cost efficient. Anyway I do make my own shakes. I put in 2.5 cups milk, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 tablespoons peanut butter, 2 tablespoons flax seeds, 1 tablespoon cocoa, 1 banana, 2 scoops chocolate protein. Works out to about 1200 calories. However, with the amount of time it takes to throw all that crap in a blender (gotta measure it all out and even throw the oats and flax seeds in a coffee grinder first of it doesn't mix well) and the mess it makes afterwards, I don't dare make it more than once a day lol. Gainer powder = add 3 scoops + shake = done.
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  17. #17
    pubmed junkie Julian_H's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hola Bola View Post
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/iss/matrix.html

    Thats the weight gainer I'm currently using, mainly because I was able to find 8lbs for $19.99. (yes poor)
    i can't believe they put hydrogenated oils in that...
    eatin the pb n cc n checkin the bb
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  18. #18
    III% Hola Bola's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by X-Mark-X View Post
    It's really not that expensive. When you compare how many calories $1 of cytogainer gets you compared to how many calories a lot of other foods get you for $1 it works out to being somewhat cost efficient. Anyway I do make my own shakes. I put in 2.5 cups milk, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 tablespoons peanut butter, 2 tablespoons flax seeds, 1 tablespoon cocoa, 1 banana, 2 scoops chocolate protein. Works out to about 1200 calories. However, with the amount of time it takes to throw all that crap in a blender (gotta measure it all out and even throw the oats and flax seeds in a coffee grinder first of it doesn't mix well) and the mess it makes afterwards, I don't dare make it more than once a day lol. Gainer powder = add 3 scoops + shake = done.
    x2...

    Originally Posted by Julian_H View Post
    i can't believe they put hydrogenated oils in that...
    The ingredient label on the actual weight gainer I have at home doesn't have hydrogenated oils listed... its alot different than the one listed online.
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  19. #19
    Registered User RADIRON's Avatar
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    If you must use a weight gainer type shake...Up Your Mass ftw. Quality carbs, EFAs, and lots of fiber. Tastes good too.
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  20. #20
    Zombified TJ_Strong's Avatar
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    Lol @ the argument in this thread.
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  21. #21
    Registered User X-Mark-X's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RADIRON View Post
    If you must use a weight gainer type shake...Up Your Mass ftw. Quality carbs, EFAs, and lots of fiber. Tastes good too.
    That Up Your Mass stuff actually looks pretty good. Barley oats and oat fiber for the carbs... I like...
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