Pre/Post Workout Nutrition?

[LifeLesOrdinary]

I think I’m a tiny bit confused but here is some background information. I have totally revamped my nutrition and exercise program. To the point now where I can honestly say I am eating clean and doing the work. I am consuming between 1400 and 1600 calories with a goal of losing body fat. I hit the free weights hard on Mon, Wed, and Fri. I do cardio five days a week M-F with cardio coming after weights on weight training days. Cardio consists of a mixture of HIIT and low intensity days, though I can usually only handle a low intensity cardio workout once a week because it is soooo boring.

So here is my conundrum. I workout after work in the evenings (the only time that works for my schedule at the moment). The gym is very close to my work but is at least a 45 min drive from home. I eat dinner as soon as I can prepare it after I get home but by that time perhaps an hour to ninety minutes may have gone by. It sounds like the perfect time to down some sort of post workout shake (as soon as I am done working out). I know that post workout I should have some sort of carb in the form of a simple sugar and protein. The question is how many calories should my post workout recovery shake be? Also should I be drinking the same PWR shake M-F? Or should it be different after a cardio only session?

I know this is a bit in reverse as but it just occurred to me that I am not sure about the preworkout nutrition either. How many calories, what kind and how long before? Oh and yes I have been reading tons of articles but it has only made this all seem more confusing since it seems every author has a different opinion on the subject. I was hoping some of the women here would be able to share what has/is working for them.

Confused
-Holly

[nicoledominique]

Okay, first I need to say that you're not eating enough for your height and weight. I did the calculations and your BMR (basal metabolic rate) is 1715 cals/day. Basically this is how many calories you would burn while just laying in bed doing nothing. According to your post, you're eating BELOW maintenance, which is not a good thing. Considering you are very active, you should be eating between 2000-2500 cals/day to lose weight at a healthy rate. Sounds like a lot, huh? Lucky you!

**I'll attach the formula I used at the bottom of this post.

Pre-workout (weight training) you want to eat a complex carb and a lean protein 30-45 minutes prior to your lifting session. For cardio, I recommend eating the same thing except approximately 60 minutes prior. Oats and whey are the perfect pre-workout meal. If you would rather not take supps at this time, try chicken/tuna and sweet potatoes/pumpkin.

Post-workout, well the amount of calories is up to you - just make sure they fit in with your daily caloric intake. You are right about taking in a simple carbohydrate and lean protein. The best way to get this is through a shake of whey and dextrose. Carry this with you in your gym bag and as soon as your done working out, fill your shaker with water and start drinking! Then you can have your dinner after you get home and prepare it.

**Formula:

Basal Metabolic Rate - Method

Women: 661 + (4.38 x weight in pounds) + (4.33 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age) = BMR

Men: 67 + (6.24 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) - (6.9 x age)= BMR

Takea 200 pound male who is 22 and is 5-10.

67 + (6.24 x 200) + (12.7 x 70) - (6.9 x 22) - ( 6.9 x 22 ) = 1986
Next you need to calculate your activity level for the day by multiplying your BMR x's the following number that suits you.

1.2-1.3 = Very Light
1.5 for = Moderate
1.6-1.7 = Heavy
1.8-2.1 = Insanely Rigorous

If his energy expenditure is moderate than I would multiply 1986 by 1.5 and get 2,979 calories to maintain his current bodyweight weight.

[MommaJo]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

Okay, first I need to say that you're not eating enough for your height and weight.

Yup, I started at 185 eating an average of 1950 cals a day and working out 5-6 days a week and have dropped 4 lbs in 2 weeks (wasn't water weight either, I was not bloated when I started).

[dvsness]

Simple carbs are not necessary PWO. Any carb will replace glycogen, I prefer to use ones with nutritional value. Additionally, carbs are not *really* necessary. Unless you are an endurance athlete, you are not *really* depleting your glycogen stores. The most important thing at this time is protein.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by dvsness

Simple carbs are not necessary PWO. Any carb will replace glycogen, I prefer to use ones with nutritional value. Additionally, carbs are not *really* necessary. Unless you are an endurance athlete, you are not *really* depleting your glycogen stores. The most important thing at this time is protein.

Yes, but don't simple carbs replace it faster? Your body doesn't have to break it down since it's already in a simple form. Also, she said she is doing cardio after training, so she would be depleting her glycogen stores...

[freebirdmac]

I can't use any supplements and I workout after work. Usually it's 90 minutes post-lifting before I can eat dinner. Maybe not ideal, but it has not hurt me. Sometimes I will eat a tablespoon of sunflower butter while I'm waiting for dinner, but only if I'm really hungry. Otherwise I'll spoil my appetite for dinner.

I also have a small pre wo meal about 2.5 hours ahead of time. Again, maybe not ideal but it works for me.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

I can't use any supplements and I workout after work. Usually it's 90 minutes post-lifting before I can eat dinner. Maybe not ideal, but it has not hurt me. Sometimes I will eat a tablespoon of sunflower butter while I'm waiting for dinner, but only if I'm really hungry. Otherwise I'll spoil my appetite for dinner.

I also have a small pre wo meal about 2.5 hours ahead of time. Again, maybe not ideal but it works for me.

The thing is...you wouldn't even know if it has hurt your progress.

If you're trying to gain muscle it most definitely has.

[LifeLesOrdinary]

First I would like to say thanks for everyone’s help but I have further questions.

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

Considering you are very active, you should be eating between 2000-2500 cals/day to lose weight at a healthy rate. Sounds like a lot, huh? Lucky you!

Yes that number seems high. I always assume formula don’t work for me as it seems most out there tend to break when a person is very tall (or short) or very overweight. Basically most formulae tend to work best for people with average builds. I am anything but average and although I have lost a lot of weight I am still overweight. Let’s not even mention my height. I have seen that formula before but always thought you were supposed to plug your lean body weight in where it calls for weight. So something like (since my scale says I am 44% body fat):

661 + (4.38 x (206 x 56%)) + (4.33 x 72) – (6.9 x 34) = 1244

Accounting for activity:

1244 x 1.6 = 1990

So 1990 would be maintenance but I certainly don’t want to maintain and would want fewer calories in order to lose fat putting me very close to the 1400 – 1600 per day mark.

Please forgive me if I’m showing my ignorance as I still consider myself a beginner in all of this fitness and would love it if I could suddenly add between 600 and 900 calories to my daily diet and still lose weight. Jeesh that like almost half a days more food.

Originally Posted by dvsness

Simple carbs are not necessary PWO. Any carb will replace glycogen, I prefer to use ones with nutritional value. Additionally, carbs are not *really* necessary. Unless you are an endurance athlete, you are not *really* depleting your glycogen stores. The most important thing at this time is protein.

I thought the carbs were in there to cause an insulin spike triggering you to start storing rather then burning and then given that you are providing protein that is what gets stored. Is this wrong? I told you I was confused


Thanks again

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

The thing is...you wouldn't even know if it has hurt your progress.

If you're trying to gain muscle it most definitely has.

And YOU cannot say it definitely has.

I'm not having any problem gaining muscle. I've scared my trainer by how quickly I have gone up in weights. Point is not everyone can eat or drink within the "rules". If you are eating well on a daily basis and replenishing in a reasonable timeframe, your body will be fine. We're not talking about pro's where tenths of an inch can matter and where they need to fine tune everything down to a gnat's behind. If you can't follow "the rules" there is no reason to think you can't do wonderfully.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

And YOU cannot say it definitely has.

I'm not having any problem gaining muscle. I've scared my trainer by how quickly I have gone up in weights. Point is not everyone can eat or drink within the "rules". If you are eating well on a daily basis and replenishing in a reasonable timeframe, your body will be fine. We're not talking about pro's where tenths of an inch can matter and where they need to fine tune everything down to a gnat's behind. If you can't follow "the rules" there is no reason to think you can't do wonderfully.

Well, I can't see your progress or your lifting stats...so I can only take what you say with a grain of salt, unfortunately.

Point is, if you want to gain good muscle mass, you'll incorporate proper nutrition - this includes pwo. Nobody said it had to be in supplement form. There's no disputing proven results.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by LifeLesOrdinary

First I would like to say thanks for everyone?s help but I have further questions.

Yes that number seems high. I always assume formula don?t work for me as it seems most out there tend to break when a person is very tall (or short) or very overweight. Basically most formulae tend to work best for people with average builds. I am anything but average and although I have lost a lot of weight I am still overweight. Let?s not even mention my height. I have seen that formula before but always thought you were supposed to plug your lean body weight in where it calls for weight. So something like (since my scale says I am 44% body fat):

661 + (4.38 x (206 x 56%)) + (4.33 x 72) ? (6.9 x 34) = 1244

Accounting for activity:

1244 x 1.6 = 1990

So 1990 would be maintenance but I certainly don?t want to maintain and would want fewer calories in order to lose fat putting me very close to the 1400 ? 1600 per day mark.

Please forgive me if I?m showing my ignorance as I still consider myself a beginner in all of this fitness and would love it if I could suddenly add between 600 and 900 calories to my daily diet and still lose weight. Jeesh that like almost half a days more food.

Well, I am obviously a smaller person, but I have never heard of this before. You are taller so this means you require more calories than the average person - and you are extremely active which means that you need to feed your body even more!

Seriously, I'd give it a shot because you may only be losing at the moment because your body is in starvation mode and once you start eating within your proper range, you may wind up gaining it back quickly.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

Well, I can't see your progress or your lifting stats...so I can only take what you say with a grain of salt, unfortunately.

Point is, if you want to gain good muscle mass, you'll incorporate proper nutrition - this includes pwo. Nobody said it had to be in supplement form. There's no disputing proven results.

I don't know why you see the need to attack me. Your personal opinion of my progress and/or stats is irrelevant and not required. The fact is I do not have any problems gaining muscle. I certainly did not attack you or imply that since I don't have all of your info that you are not believable. I stated what is also known, you don't have to kill yourself to get home to eat or sit in a parking lot to pound down a shake. If you can work within the "rules" via food or supplements, great! But if you can't, eat well and eat as reasonably close as you can. You can still have great progress.

Bottom line is the "rules" try to ensure that you have what you need pre and post workout. It does NOT mean that what you need isn't already there. You cannot determine these stores except on an individual basis. It's like taking a multi-vitamin. It's an insurance policy. It doesn't mean you need it.

Be careful with proven results and also truly study the results to understand what they mean and not just take a sound bite. Studies tend to differ based on the focus of the study, who paid for the study, and have a nasty habit of being proven wrong at a later time. Certainly the supplement companies want you to believe you cannot do without pre- and post-wo nutrients knowing most people have busy lives and supplements would be about the only way to get the nutrients. Protein needs and bulking habits have changed considerably through the years. Vitamin C is getting attention now, who knows how long that one will last.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

I don't know why you see the need to attack me. Your personal opinion of my progress and/or stats is irrelevant and not required. The fact is I do not have any problems gaining muscle. I certainly did not attack you or imply that since I don't have all of your info that you are not believable. I stated what is also known, you don't have to kill yourself to get home to eat or sit in a parking lot to pound down a shake. If you can work within the "rules" via food or supplements, great! But if you can't, eat well and eat as reasonably close as you can. You can still have great progress.

Bottom line is the "rules" try to ensure that you have what you need pre and post workout. It does NOT mean that what you need isn't already there. You cannot determine these stores except on an individual basis. It's like taking a multi-vitamin. It's an insurance policy. It doesn't mean you need it.

Be careful with proven results and also truly study the results to understand what they mean and not just take a sound bite. Studies tend to differ based on the focus of the study, who paid for the study, and have a nasty habit of being proven wrong at a later time. Certainly the supplement companies want you to believe you cannot do without pre- and post-wo nutrients knowing most people have busy lives and supplements would be about the only way to get the nutrients. Protein needs and bulking habits have changed considerably through the years. Vitamin C is getting attention now, who knows how long that one will last.

I didn't attack you - I just don't think that giving out unfounded advice is the best thing for anybody. So many people on here hand out advice like it's going out of style - but few have the actual proven results to back it up. I wasn't talking about studies - I was talking about my own personal results.

You say that what you're doing is working for you - great! However, imagine how much more progress you could have made by doing things a little differently (ex: pwo). Just saying.

Sorry if it came off as rude, I just really don't get why you're arguing against pwo nutrition. It doesn't make sense to me. There's no need to "kill" yourself trying to get in pwo nutrition - just keep it in your gym bag and eat it on the way home? About spoiling your appetite - can't help you there since I eat 6-8 meals a day no matter what.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

I didn't attack you - I just don't think that giving out unfounded advice is the best thing for anybody. So many people on here hand out advice like it's going out of style - but few have the actual proven results to back it up. I wasn't talking about studies - I was talking about my own personal results.

So your results have more value than mine? You hand out advice like it's going out of style but no one else can? There is only one answer and it's yours? And you did attack me. Since you can't offer a personal evaluation I'm a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

You say that what you're doing is working for you - great! However, imagine how much more progress you could have made by doing things a little differently (ex: pwo). Just saying. I really don't get why you're arguing against pwo nutrition. It makes no sense to me.

Reread what I wrote. I never argued against it. I argued your statement that said you can't have good gains WITHOUT it. It is an insurance policy, not an absolute requirement.

And I couldn't have made any more progress. As I said I scared my trainer as it was. He holds me back at times preferring to take it a tad slower rather than risk an injury later.

[nicoledominique]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

So your results have more value than mine? You hand out advice like it's going out of style but no one else can? There is only one answer and it's yours? And you did attack me. Since you can't offer a personal evaluation I'm a grain of salt.



Reread what I wrote. I never argued against it. I argued your statement that said you can't have good gains WITHOUT it. It is an insurance policy, not an absolute requirement.

And I couldn't have made any more progress. As I said I scared my trainer as it was. He holds me back at times preferring to take it a tad slower rather than risk an injury later.

Okay, post some pics and lifting stats.

I never once said that you can't have results without pwo nutrition - what I did say is that imagine how much BETTER your results could have been WITH it. I'm done with this thread - unless it has to do with the OP.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

Okay, post some pics and lifting stats.

As I've said your personal opinion is irrelevant. If you can't take my word just ignore my posts. You expect everyone else to take yours

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

I never once said that you can't have results without pwo nutrition - what I did say is that imagine how much BETTER your results could have been WITH it. I'm done with this thread - unless it has to do with the OP.

I didn't say you did. I took issue with the admonition that my meal timing has definitely affected my gains.


To the OP, sorry about the sidebar argument.

Eat as clean as you can and try to get your protein, complex carbs, good fats, and fiber in. Personally I rarely eat simple carbs. Whichever supps you go with, listen to your body. It'll tell you if you have the energy for workouts, if you're recovering well, and the mirror will tell you if you like the results. You may have to play around a bit to find out what works for your body.

[gfundaro]

Okay, I'm just gonna end all the tussling and whatnot with some sound scientific information, take it or leave it, I'm just puttin it out there

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

"The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (> or =1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise."

Basically...your post workout nutrition needs to start 15-45 minutes after workout workout, and then EXTEND for 5 hours. The first phase of glycogen synthesis doesn't even need insulin as stated above (although there will be some present), so you don't have to worry about high vs. low GI carbs. Just grab SOMEthing. Even if it's a low fat bar. Eat it before you go home. If you wait past the prime 15-45 minute period, glycogen synthesis drops to about 50%, which means that you won't be refilling your muscles as efficiently as you could.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

Okay, I'm just gonna end all the tussling and whatnot with some sound scientific information, take it or leave it, I'm just puttin it out there

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

"The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (> or =1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise."

Basically...your post workout nutrition needs to start 15-45 minutes after workout workout, and then EXTEND for 5 hours. The first phase of glycogen synthesis doesn't even need insulin as stated above (although there will be some present), so you don't have to worry about high vs. low GI carbs. Just grab SOMEthing. Even if it's a low fat bar. Eat it before you go home. If you wait past the prime 15-45 minute period, glycogen synthesis drops to about 50%, which means that you won't be refilling your muscles as efficiently as you could.

You as always rock! I love scientific reports.

"When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis"

The "may" is in there as there are many more factors present, such as digestive transport rate, metabolism, etc. For someone with a higher metabolism and transport rate it would be far more important than with someone with a slower metabolism and transport rate as the nutrients from the last meal are in a far earlier state. It's also dependent upon the intensity and length of the workout. Absolutes are tough nuts. It's also hard to translate the 50-percent possible rates into real numbers. If you can get your hands on that, it would be great! I still believe if you're eating really well and just can't work something in before or after, get as close as you can and but don't get all crazy about it. If you can, there's certainly no reason not to.

[gfundaro]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

You as always rock! I love scientific reports.

"When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis"

The "may" is in there as there are many more factors present, such as digestive transport rate, metabolism, etc. For someone with a higher metabolism and transport rate it would be far more important than with someone with a slower metabolism and transport rate as the nutrients from the last meal are in a far earlier state. It's also dependent upon the intensity and length of the workout. Absolutes are tough nuts. It's also hard to translate the 50-percent possible rates into real numbers. If you can get your hands on that, it would be great! I still believe if you're eating really well and just can't work something in before or after, get as close as you can and but don't get all crazy about it. If you can, there's certainly no reason not to.

Oh I know there are no absolutes...I rarely buy into everything an article has to say, but since this is from my exercise phys teacher, I thought I'd pass it on. And in many of the texts I have blown a bunch of money on, I've read the same about the window of time post workout in which to take your PoWo glucose and protein. Here's a quote from my exercise phys book:

"Under optimal carbohydrate intake conditions, glycogen replenishes at a rate of about 5% per hour. Thus, even under the best of circumstances, it requires at least 20 hours to re-establish glycogen stores after depletion."

And to decide whether you might be depleting glycogen...

"High-intensity aerobic exercise continued for 1 hour decreased liver glycogen by about 55%, whereas a 2-hour strenuous workout almost depletes glycogen in the liver and specifically exercised muscle fibers."

I do take powo nutrition right away, because I lift for 65-80 minutes, do abs for 15, and cardio for 30. Chances are that my glycogen is verrrrry low because I only eat 40% calories from carbs, and anything under 50% has a chance of glycogen depletion and the need for replenishment and even full carb loading.
If your workouts are less intense, then it might not be as much of a problem.

[midilandshockey]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

I can't use any supplements and I workout after work. Usually it's 90 minutes post-lifting before I can eat dinner. Maybe not ideal, but it has not hurt me. Sometimes I will eat a tablespoon of sunflower butter while I'm waiting for dinner, but only if I'm really hungry. Otherwise I'll spoil my appetite for dinner.

I also have a small pre wo meal about 2.5 hours ahead of time. Again, maybe not ideal but it works for me.

LMAO.

[nicoledominique]

You're right - at 5'4 and 112 lbs you have made all the progress in the world. Amazing. Kudos.

Keep doing what works. At 48 years old you think you'd have a bit more sense. Keep giving your rotten advice.

BLOCK

[LifeLesOrdinary]

jeesh. I had no idea I was going to be sparking an argument, but I guess this is why I have been confused. There seems to be a whole lot of opinions giving contradictory advice.

In case anyone was interested I do plan on having post workout shakes after every workout. Both the cardio and weight training days. I am also going to try to increase my calories (slowly though since I want to be sure I don't start gaining weight) perhaps 200-300 calories for a couple of weeks.



Thanks,
Holly

[freebirdmac]

You may initially feel you're gaining weight, or even see scale weight go up, but don't freak out. It'll take your body a couple of weeks to figure out what is going on and adjust. You really do need the extra calories. I went from 1350 to 1800 and I know it's a real psychological hurdle to up those cals. You won't regret it.

[dvsness]

Holy thread explosion!

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

Yes, but don't simple carbs replace it faster? Your body doesn't have to break it down since it's already in a simple form. Also, she said she is doing cardio after training, so she would be depleting her glycogen stores...

So long as you have proper pre-workout nutrition (as we all should) and are not training in a fasted state, glycogen is not depleted.

Originally Posted by LifeLesOrdinary

I thought the carbs were in there to cause an insulin spike triggering you to start storing rather then burning and then given that you are providing protein that is what gets stored. Is this wrong? I told you I was confused

It is my opinion that insulin is overrated unless you are a hardgainer. It is not necessarily a huge spike you want to trigger when the goal is fat loss.

[gfundaro]

My bf sent me a neat article out of the Journal of Applied Physiology. The researchers found that taking fructose pre-WO protected muscle glycogen better than glucose since glucose caused such a huge spike in insulin that sugar levels dropped dramatically, actually causing hypoglycemia in participants. The fructose didn't cause such a large insulogenic reaction, thus no hypoglycemia followed, and muscle glycogen didn't have to be sent out. I thought that was pretty neat since so many people are all anti-fructose. It might be something for hardgainers or those on a bulk to think about.

[DanceDiva]

Originally Posted by nicoledominique

You're right - at 5'4 and 112 lbs you have made all the progress in the world. Amazing. Kudos.

Keep doing what works. At 48 years old you think you'd have a bit more sense. Keep giving your rotten advice.

BLOCK

And at your age, I would think that you should have already been taught better manners by your mother. Maybe when you get to be 48, you'll have some.

[DanceDiva]

Apparently she's good at dishing but not taking. My reply was a neg rep and I quote "blah blah blah".

Ooh, her list of qualities just keeps growing, and growing, and growing.

[gfundaro]

Okay if we can't get along I'm going to pull this car over!!


hehe

[DanceDiva]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

Okay if we can't get along I'm going to pull this car over!!


hehe

Love you baby. I'm going to quit now. :-)

[midilandshockey]

Originally Posted by DanceDiva

And at your age, I would think that you should have already been taught better manners by your mother. Maybe when you get to be 48, you'll have some.

And by manners I assume you mean posting your comments free of logic, and attacking someones family? REAL mature.