Question about outer quad sweep?

[akomabutisakama]

what are the best excercises to giv you a nice outer quad sweep

[bts]

I like front squats

[str8flexed]

Originally Posted by akomabutisakama

what are the best excercises to giv you a nice outer quad sweep

this is primarily determined by genetics and the quads insertion point on the knee, just going as deep as you can and using proper form on squats, leg press, hack squats, etc is going to give you the best results... as with anything else.

-Layne

[BB2K]

hey str8, i have heard that if you keep your legs narrow, it works the outside sweep, but if you spread you legs out, it works in the inner "tear drop" portion of the leg. any truth to that?

[exfatman]

Originally Posted by bodebldr2000

hey str8, i have heard that if you keep your legs narrow, it works the outside sweep, but if you spread you legs out, it works in the inner "tear drop" portion of the leg. any truth to that?

That is correct and as far as leg press it is the same plus low on the platform works the front of the thigh where a high foot placement works more glute and hamstring.

[str8flexed]

Originally Posted by exfatman

That is correct and as far as leg press it is the same plus low on the platform works the front of the thigh where a high foot placement works more glute and hamstring.

i'm not trying to be argumentative, but do you have any references for this?

[exfatman]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

i'm not trying to be argumentative, but do you have any references for this?

Honestly I can't recall where I read it but I can say that it was also in one of those MT ads...I mean Muscle And Fitness and iot was also something I think Schwarzenegger wrote about. As ar as low and high foot placement and maybe wide stance "power squats" you can probably find something on exrx.net. Anyway, just try the different foot placement. I was skeptical until I felt the difference myself.

[Al Shades]

Do dumbell squats for a great quad sweep.

[Moreps]

Pause squats heels 6" apart. Sit in the hole for 3-5 seconds, go as deep as possible. Reduce the weight used, but do 4-5 sets of 4-6 reps. Your outer and upper quads will explode with growth.

[str8flexed]

lol, you guys sound like FLEX magazine

[Gibblets]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

i'm not trying to be argumentative, but do you have any references for this?

I do not have any scientific evidence or references for this other than crappy FLEX magazines, but I can tell you from experience that this is true.

When I squat narrow, I feel it more on the outside part of the quad, as well as the upper part of the middle quad. I apologize that I do not know the proper names of the muscles...lol.

When I leg press, same thing- the width of the stance affects quad development. Also, on leg extensions, if you point your toes in/out, it affects which part of the quad you work once again.

I feel that I have great outer quad development...but, my tear drops are quite small and underdeveloped when I pose the legs. Thus, I have been emphasizing a wider stance on leg movements, and I have seen great results over the past year.

But yeah, as with everything in bodybuilding, genetics will play a large role on how you look when you are fully developed, as well has how hard you'll have to work to reach your potential.

[str8flexed]

just found this... guess maybe my instincts were correct

Utilizing the proper technique is paramount when performing squats. Recently at the Centre for Sports Science, West Sussex, England, a series of tests were performed to establish if varying foot positions during squats had an effect on the recruitment patterns of the quad muscles. Electrodes were placed on the subject's quads and results of the study indicated that the quad muscles would do the same amount of work if the feet were turned inward, outward, or straight ahead. The study noted that the best squat position is the position in which you feel the most stable and comfortable (2).

2. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(4): 379-382, 2000

[Gibblets]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

just found this... guess maybe my instincts were correct

Utilizing the proper technique is paramount when performing squats. Recently at the Centre for Sports Science, West Sussex, England, a series of tests were performed to establish if varying foot positions during squats had an effect on the recruitment patterns of the quad muscles. Electrodes were placed on the subject's quads and results of the study indicated that the quad muscles would do the same amount of work if the feet were turned inward, outward, or straight ahead. The study noted that the best squat position is the position in which you feel the most stable and comfortable (2).

2. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(4): 379-382, 2000

The muscles might all be doing the same level of work, but maybe the amount of the work may be displaced to one muscle over the other. I dunno, I feel what I feel, and that's all one should care about.

But good find Layne. That article should settle this foot positioning debate!

[Hardcore Natural]

I'd say go with whatever foot position or stance allows you to lift the most amount of weight. Do what gives you the most power. This will then allow you to get the most out of the exercise.

[MynameisMike]

Powerlifters squat wide as hell because they can lift the most weight. Bodybuilders aren't squatting to do the most weight, there squatting for looks.

[BluSilver]

Originally Posted by MynameisMike

Powerlifters squat wide as hell because they can lift the most weight. Bodybuilders aren't squatting to do the most weight, there squatting for looks.

This has more to do with the depth they have to go down than anything else.

[Smackdaddy36]

I got this video from another thread, and this is not a bodybuilder, but I believe he has close to perfect squat form, and this is probably the kind of form everyone should aspire to have. It's very safe on the knees, due to the fact that when you go that low you are primarily using your hip abductors, hamstrings, and glutes to get you back up, as opposed to using your knees to do it. If you are 15 years old, I wouldn't worry about 'sweeps' just yet. Do your squats like this and you should be more than happy with the size of your legs.

http://media.putfile.com/Ironmind_1993_295kgSquat_GMs

Forget about the good mornings though...just posted to show the squats

[exfatman]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

just found this... guess maybe my instincts were correct

Utilizing the proper technique is paramount when performing squats. Recently at the Centre for Sports Science, West Sussex, England, a series of tests were performed to establish if varying foot positions during squats had an effect on the recruitment patterns of the quad muscles. Electrodes were placed on the subject's quads and results of the study indicated that the quad muscles would do the same amount of work if the feet were turned inward, outward, or straight ahead. The study noted that the best squat position is the position in which you feel the most stable and comfortable (2).

2. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(4): 379-382, 2000

Honestly I doubt the results said anything more than "the quad muscles would do the same amount of work if the feet were turned inward, outward, or straight ahead." It seems obvious to me that the quad muscles (as a group) will perform the same total of work regardless of foot placement or stance. Now if the study mentioned that say the vastus medialis did the same work regaardless of the stance or foot placement that would be different but that is not what it said.

[exfatman]

Originally Posted by Gibblets

The muscles might all be doing the same level of work, but maybe the amount of the work may be displaced to one muscle over the other. I dunno, I feel what I feel, and that's all one should care about.

But good find Layne. That article should settle this foot positioning debate!

That was alot easier than how I said it

[jasperg35]

Originally Posted by Gibblets

I do not have any scientific evidence or references for this other than crappy FLEX magazines, but I can tell you from experience that this is true.

When I squat narrow, I feel it more on the outside part of the quad, as well as the upper part of the middle quad. I apologize that I do not know the proper names of the muscles...lol.

When I leg press, same thing- the width of the stance affects quad development. Also, on leg extensions, if you point your toes in/out, it affects which part of the quad you work once again.

I feel that I have great outer quad development...but, my tear drops are quite small and underdeveloped when I pose the legs. Thus, I have been emphasizing a wider stance on leg movements, and I have seen great results over the past year.

But yeah, as with everything in bodybuilding, genetics will play a large role on how you look when you are fully developed, as well has how hard you'll have to work to reach your potential.

i agree with all of this...

when you bench, where do you place your hands? do you agree that you will get different development depending on hand placement? of course. you can actually over develop your tri's, and under develop your chest, by simply moving your hands closer, etc...

and the same goes for the leg extension, which the op might want to look at... if you point your toes in, other muscles are being used... just like hammer curls and dumbbell curls are just a twist away, but emphasize two different parts of the biceps...

i agree with the comment above that mentioned - do whatever is comfortable to allow you to move more weight for squats... i don't think this movement was ever really used to define, more than isolation excercises, as much as it is useful for overall physique.

[kethnaab]

Leg position is going to be influenced by individual structure more than anything.

One thing that *is* known, is that the final extension portion of a lift is where the teardrop area (vastus medialis) does the most work, at least if one is to believe MRI tests.

Generally, runners and cyclists who have knee imbalances have an overdeveloped sweep (vastus lateralis) and underdeveloped teardrop. They frequently will be given extension-type remedial training where they emphasize the final "peak contraction" portion of the movement

1) Put your feet in a position that doesn't hurt your knees.
2) Put your feet in a position that allows you to move through a full range of motion

jasperg, understand that your analogy using hand spacing is not appropriate.

close hand spacing works the triceps more than wide hand spacing on the bench press because the elbows move through a greater range of motion. HOWEVER, using a close hand spacing doesn't work a different portion of the PEC than using a wide spacing. That is a fallacy (not that you said it did)

that being said, to the original poster (who is 15), do not worry about your quad sweep

worry about learning how to perform squats properly. Perform them for 5 years. Then come ask us the same question

[motofreak]

Myself I prefer fronts and close stance hacks for outer quad but give this a shot. Take any 1 quad exercise, for instance fronts. Do 10 sets of moderate reps (8) take all to near failure. Then call it a night. 24 hours later you will know exactly where that exercise hits. Better than any studies or theories. The following week try the same on Leg press. Then change again the following week.

[Al Shades]

Originally Posted by kethnaab

Generally, runners and cyclists who have knee imbalances have an overdeveloped sweep (vastus lateralis) and underdeveloped teardrop. They frequently will be given extension-type remedial training where they emphasize the final "peak contraction" portion of the movement

That would imply that running and cycling emphasize the lower portion of the ROM of the extension movement. That simply isn't the case, so it doesn't make sense.

[Steve_W]

Originally Posted by BluSilver

This has more to do with the depth they have to go down than anything else.

It's also basic kinesiology. Wider base of support = better balance. This is turn = greater power .

[kethnaab]

Originally Posted by Al Shades

That would imply that running and cycling emphasize the lower portion of the ROM of the extension movement. That simply isn't the case, so it doesn't make sense.

no, what it implies is that the upper portion of the ROM of the extension movement is *not* emphasized during running or bicycling.

think about it. a cyclist or runner whose knees straighten under load is going to be in some serious pain.

[BigPopaPump]

That its the part of the foot you push through.

Through heels, toes raised always nails my rectus.
Toes out, through the ball, always burns the Medial.
Pigeon toe, knees thogether seem to get my sweep better. I feel it the next day anyway. Also, close knees on leg extention seem to get my sweep.

I am not going off anything excpet my own experience, and the way I feel the day, or second day after working a mucle group.

Also, jsut picking a weight that allows perfect form and contraction. I think this gives you a chance to control which muscle takes over the movement.

[B.b. in stress!]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

just found this... guess maybe my instincts were correct

Utilizing the proper technique is paramount when performing squats. Recently at the Centre for Sports Science, West Sussex, England, a series of tests were performed to establish if varying foot positions during squats had an effect on the recruitment patterns of the quad muscles. Electrodes were placed on the subject's quads and results of the study indicated that the quad muscles would do the same amount of work if the feet were turned inward, outward, or straight ahead. The study noted that the best squat position is the position in which you feel the most stable and comfortable (2).

2. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(4): 379-382, 2000

i still dont understand that article that layne posted

i noticed my inner thighs grew more when i emphasized a wide stance, now wouldn't that mean close stance equals outer sweep?

when they say foot position, do they mean when only the foot is ROTATED inward, outward, and straight forward? of couse this wouldnt mean any quad recriutment muscles. however, if the placement of the foot was outward, inward, and shoulder-width, then thats a different story...

[day1377]

I agree with BigPopaPump. I had the same burning sensation on my front quads when I do squats/leg press with feet together or very close to each other and in parallel. Whenever I do feet far apart like a sumo stance, then I feel it mostly on my hips and glutes.

[Vinny_Au]

The back squat, if performed correctly is primarily a glute/ham exericise. If you are performing it correctly with the hips beggining the decend rather then the kness the exericse should be for the glutes, however, if the knees begin the decend it becomes a quad dominant.

[Moreps]

If you really want to improve the inner quads, not to mention hammies, try doing sumo deadlifts too.