The GMS science thread : Please debate

[Big Cat]

I want to get into the debate, but the other thread is out of hand. Lack of good information and moving too fast for me to follow. I have exams at the moment so time is limited.

Wanted to start this so we could just stick to the facts.

Rules

Yes, my thread my rules

1.No Off topic posts, if you have nothing to contribute, refrain
2.Stick to the facts and pose the right questions. Not everything has to be backed up into the greatest detail, but if you are saying something unlikely, please add something in reference to prove it.
3.No insults of any kind. In the heat of the moment things are said, agreed, you will be warned so you can watch for it next time, don't make the mistake twice or you won't be coming back.
4.In regards to nr3, yes that means you can point out the same for me as well
5.Lets build the thread logically, start with claims and counterclaims, the proof for each, and build to a conclusion. I will be deleting off topic posts.

Goal

Clarify who made what claims and why, and get to the truth

Problem

Glycerol Monostearate is being produced in a product. Don't know the name, don't know the company, it doesn't matter either, we only discuss GMS. As far as I understand the following claims are being made :

1.Glycerol has certain benefits in cell-volumizing
2.Either GMS has those benefits or GMS yields enough free glycerol to make those claims applicable.

Now, I could start a whole other debate about why not to use glycerol, in fact if you use the search button, you'll find that debate has been had several times. But that is not the issue. What is the issue are the following questions :

1.Does a monoglyceride, under normal conditions, release enough free glycerol ? Common logic and physiology dictates no, I'm interested in hearing the counterclaims
2.Does GMS have benefit over pure glycerol ?
3.If not, why use GMS and not glycerol, given lower price and greater efficiency.
4.Is supplemental GMS necessary as it is a common food additive

I'm interested in serious opinions, facts, claims and proof. No bull****, keep the reiteration to a minimum, keep it amicable and professional, please.

Facts

To avoid bull**** problems like the other thread a few things that need to be stated. Glycerol is not a sugar it is a poly-alcohol. Stearic acid is a free fatty acid. GMS is made by esterifying stearic acid to glycerol at one of its alcoholic functions yielding a monoglyceride. A mono-glyceride is a fat. A mono-glyceride is not necessarily stored as fat, as long as no triglyceride is formed, its function and fate are determined by a multitude of metabolic factors. GMS is not powdered lard, it is a fat, not all fat is bad. GMS has no clear benefit either in physical well-being, aesthetics or performance.

Glycerol, the alcohol, has many fates. Its principle use is in the formation of glycerides, under normal conditions it will preferentially appear as glycerides. Under calorie restricted conditions Free fatty acids are used for energy and glycerides are broken down. This leaves free glycerol. The fate of that glycerol is often use in neoglucogenesis or the creation of glucose from non-glucose metabolites. This is why there was a huge protest against low-sugar bars not listing glycerol on their labels.

THe debate is open, enjoy.

[pu12en12g]

THIS POST UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Background info

- I first started using glycerine / glycerol as a supplement in 2003

- I first discussed the benefits of Glycerol MonoStearate in 2004... while reviewing Omega Thunder

- I was not affiliated with any company at that time, and I am presenting the same theory now that I did back in 2004... based on:

1) Science

2) Anecdotal feedback from numerous reliable sources

3) Trial and error

Like MANY supplements, Glycerol MonoStearate doesn't have numerous studies proving that it is effective and at exactly what dosage... so I encourage everyone to do their own research after understanding the basics in this thread. Come to your own conclusions based on the 3 variables above.



Complete Fatty Acid Metabolism Animation
http://www.wiley.com/legacy/college/...metabolism.swf

Please view that animation completely before continuing

Other animations:
http://www.wiley.com/legacy/college/...animations.htm

GLYCEROL MONOSTEARATE

SYNONYMS

Glyceryl monostearate
3-Stearoyloxy-1,2-propanediol
Glyceryl stearate
Alpha-Monostearin
Monostearin
Octadecanoic acid
2,3-dihydroxypropyl ester
Glycerin 1-monostearate
Glycerin 1-stearate
Glycerol alpha-monostearate
Glyceryl 1-monostearate
Stearic acid alpha-monoglyceride
Stearic acid 1-monoglyceride
1-Glyceryl stearate
1-Monostearin
1-Monostearoylglycerol
1,2,3-Propanetriol 1-octadecanoyl ester

Glycerol is esterified with stearic acid to form Glycerol MonoStearate

stearic acid = a carboxylic acid

Glycerol / Glycerine = a trihydric alcohol, possessing two primary and one secondary hydroxyl groups, which are its potential reaction sites and the basis for glycerin’s versatility as a chemical raw material

Hydrolysis of an ester link

In a hydrolysis reaction that involves breaking an ester link, one hydrolysis product contains a hydroxyl functional group, while the other contains a carboxylic acid functional group.

The fragment of the parent molecule that was originally a carboxylate gains a hydrogen ion from the additional water molecule. The fragment that was originally an alkyl group collects the remaining hydroxyl group from the water molecule.

This effectively reverses the esterification reaction, yielding the original alcohol and carboxylic acid again.

Hydrolysis

Hydrolysis is a chemical process in which a molecule is split into two parts by the addition of a molecule of water

Emulsify

to combine two liquids that normally do not combine easily

Since glycerol is a three carbon alcohol, it is metabolized quite readily into an intermediate in glycolysis, dihydroxyacetone phosphate. The last reaction is readily reversible

-----> if <-----


glycerol is needed for the synthesis of a lipid.

Lipid

The term lipid refers to a diverse range of molecules and to some extent it is a catch-all for relatively water-insoluble or nonpolar compounds of biological origin, including waxes, fatty acids, fatty-acid derived phospholipids, sphingolipids, glycolipids, and terpenoids such as retinoids and steroids. Some lipids are linear aliphatic molecules, while others have ring structures. Some are aromatic, while others are not. Some are flexible, while others are rigid.

Most lipids have some polar character in addition to being largely nonpolar. Generally, the bulk of their structure is nonpolar or hydrophobic ("water-fearing"), meaning that it does not interact well with polar solvents like water. Another part of their structure is polar or hydrophilic ("water-loving") and will tend to associate with polar solvents like water. This makes them amphiphilic molecules (having both hydrophobic and hydrophilic portions). In the case of cholesterol, the polar group is a mere -OH (hydroxyl or alcohol). In the case of phospholipids, the polar groups are considerably larger and more polar, as described below.

Phospholipids or, more precisely, glycerophospholipids, are built on a glycerol core to which are linked two fatty acid-derived "tails" by ester linkages and one "head" group by a phosphate ester linkage. Fatty acids are unbranched hydrocarbon chains, connected by single bonds alone (saturated fatty acids) or by both single and double bonds (unsaturated fatty acids). The chains are usually 10–24 carbon groups long. The head groups of the phospholipids found in biological membranes are phosphatidylcholine (lecithin), phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylinositol, whose head group can be modified by the addition of one to three more phosphate groups. While phospholipids are the major component of biological membranes, other lipid components like sphingolipids and sterols (such as cholesterol in animal cell membranes) are also found in biological membranes.

ATP

adenosine triphosphate / energy

exogenous

Originating or produced outside of an organism, tissue, or cell

endogenous

Originating or produced within an organism, tissue, or cell

Lipase

Lipase is a digestive enzyme produced by the following organs:

pancreas (pancreatic lipase)

liver (hepatic lipase)

and stomach (stomach/gastric lipase)

Enzymes are responsible for the metabolism of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats

glycerol kinase

Glycerol kinase is an enzyme that is used to convert glycerol and ATP to glycerol-3-phosphate and ADP. It catalyzes an intermediate step that allows glycerol to transit to/from gluconeogenesis or glycolysis.

glycolysis

anaerobic portion of energy production within the body

gluconeogenesis

production of glucose by your body (blood sugar)

Beta-oxidation

The process by which the long fatty acid chains are broken down into two carbon units and the energy provider, ATP.

The b-oxidation of long-chain fatty acids is central to the provision of energy for the organism and is of particular importance for cardiac and skeletal muscle. However, a number of other tissues, primarily the liver, but also the kidney, small intestine and white adipose tissue, can utilize the products of b-oxidation for the formation of ketone bodies which can, in turn, be utilized for energy by other tissues. The relationship of fat oxidation with the utilization of carbohydrate as a source of energy is complex and depends upon tissue, nutritional state, exercise, development and a variety of other influences such as infection and other pathological states.

hydrophilic

a hydrophilic molecule or portion of a molecule is one that is typically charge-polarized and capable of hydrogen bonding, enabling it to dissolve more readily in water than in oil or other hydrophobic solvents. Hydrophilic and hydrophobic molecules are also known as polar molecules and nonpolar molecules, respectively.

myocytes = muscle fiber

A cylindrical multinucleate cell composed of myofibrils that contract when stimulated.

<img src="http://www.jlr.org/content/vol42/issue12/images/medium/JLR010332.f1.gif">

Glycerol metabolism. The glycerol-3-phosphate pathway (right) and the direct acylation pathway (left) are illustrated

DHAP = dihydroxyacetone-3-phosphate

G3P = glycerol-3-phsophate

LysoPA = lysophosphatidate

PA = phosphatidate

TG = triacylglycerol

PC = phosphatidylcholine

PE = phosphatidylethanolamine.

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

<img src="http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/images/590metabolism.gif">

<img src="http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/images/620fattyacidspiral.gif">

<img src="http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/images/601step5NAD.gif">

<img src="http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/images/611citricacidcycle.gif">

Some L-glycerol 3-phosphate reacts with fatty acyl CoA molecules to ultimately form triglycerides (triacylglycerols) and phospholipids.

Most L-glycerol 3-phosphate undergoes oxidation to dihydroxyacetone phosphate, catalyzed either by cytosolic glycerol 3-phosphate dehydrogenase, an enzyme that requires NAD+ as electron receptor, or by mitochondrial glycerol 3-phosphate dehydrogenase. The coupling of the two glycerol 3-phosphate dehydrogenases leads to the passage of electrons from NADH to enter the mitochondrial electron transfer chain for the production of ATP. This transfer of electrons from cytosolic NADH to the mitochondrial electron transport chain is known as the glycerol phosphate shuttle. Dihydroxyacetone phosphate can either move in the direction of further oxidation to finally yield carbon dioxide, water and ATP or be converted to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate and move in the direction of glucose and glycogen synthesis.

Glycerol not metabolized in the liver is transported to various tissues and undergoes metabolism. Similar reactions to those discussed above occur in the kidney.

[Slated]

Originally Posted by CONTROLLED LABS

Pure never claimed to be a scientist and neither do I, but here is the info again (that you seemed to ignore in your post and say the opposite of, and I give my sources, you just say its from a "university textbook") This is getting tiring arguing with you and I dont have all day to sit here and look at your posts anymore and we wont sit here while you call us names like a 3 year old would:

(this information below is from the following textbook "Lippincott's Biochesmitry" 3rd addition, page 176, as well as "Saunders Physiology" page 325-326 as well as "medical physiology" by Rhoades and Tanner page 500) 3 very well respected sources.

Triacylglycerol contained in chylomicrons is broken down primarily in the capillaries of skeletal muscle and adipose tissues, but also those of the heart, lung kidneys and liver.

“Triacylglycerol in chylomicrons is degraded to free fatty acids and glycerol by lipoprotein lipase.” <<<<<VERY IMPORTANT INFO

This enzyme is synthesized primarily by adipocytes and muscle cells.

The free fatty acids derived from the hydrolysis of triacylglycerol may directly enter adjacent muscle cells of adipocytes. Alternatively, the free fatty acids may be transported in the blood in association with serum albumin until they are taken up by cells.

Digestions of dietary lipids begins in the stomach with the action of lingual lipase, and is completed in the small intestine with the actions of the pancreatic enzymes pancreatic lipase, cholesterol ester hydrolase and phospholipase A2.

“Lingual Lipase, a component of the salivary secretion, initiates lipid digestion by hydrolyzing appromixately 10% of the ingested triglycerides to glycerol and free fatty acids.” <<<< MORE IMPORTANT INFO

One of the most important contributions of the stomach to overall lipid digestion and absorption is to slowly empty the chime into the small intestine, allowing adequate time for the pancreatic enzymes to digest lipids and for the digestive products to be absorbed. Most lipid digestion occurs in the small intestine, where conditions are more favorable than in the stomach.

The final products of lipid digestion are monoglycerides, fatty acids, cholesterol, lysolecithin, and glycerol (from hydrolysis of ester bonds of triglycerides). With the exception of glycerol, each end product is hydrophobic. To be absorbed, the hydrophobic digestive products must be solubilized in the micelles and transported to the apical membrane of the intestinal cells for absorption.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by CONTROLLED LABS

continued:

Yes, these mono-glycerides can potentially be converted back into triglycerides, but only if there is no immediate need for them, which shouldn’t be the case with only 6-8 grams of GMS being taken in at one time. (we also suggest on our bottle to take it before, during and after the workout, not with other fats, so there is nothing competing with it for absorption and it should all be taken up)

This info above pretty much proves that GMS is broken down to glycerol in the human body which is used by the cells.

Originally Posted by CONTROLLED LABS

Not that it even matters, because it wasn’t part of the original debate ("does GMS becomes glycerol in the human body", which we have proven it has from 3 major medical school textbooks)

But, he is not saying "lipids" enter the bloodstream then the liver, he is saying "hydrolyzed lipids" (which are the ones that have already been acted upon and have begun being broken down) do, after they have been acted upon by the lipase. (I think you need to read his posts more carefully)

Direct quote from "Lippincott's Biochemistry" (page 178) a medical school textbook:

Short- and medium-chain length fatty acids enter the portal (LIVER) circulation after absorption from the small intestine


so I think you owe pure an apology.

From the other thread. Thought this would help make a good start

[kingcarlos]

Originally Posted by deserusan

I totally understand this and I can see why no one questions stearic acid. However, evidence has been provided which shows why stearic acid is not a benign molecule and has adverse effects on the circulatory system. I think this should be addressed because you are greatly increases your intake of stearic acid by injesting high amounts of GMS. I'll repost this.

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 70, No. 6, 951-952, December 1999

The reason dietary stearic acid is considered benign is based on its failure to elevate plasma cholesterol concentrations (23). Stearic acid is well absorbed by the gut and is transported in chylomicrons and remnant particles before being picked up by the liver. Once there, an interesting paradox occurs in that excess stearic acid is simply converted to the 18-carbon monounsaturated oleic acid via a desaturase enzyme in the liver (4) and then recirculates in lipoprotein complexes as oleic acid, which is not hypercholesterolemic. Thus, conversion to oleic acid may explain why stearic acid does not elevate plasma cholesterol concentrations. In contrast, when palmitic acid reaches the liver after absorption, it simply recirculates as palmitic acid in lipoproteins. Thus, dietary palmitic acid, along with lauric and myristic acids, elevates plasma cholesterol and LDL concentrations by down-regulating the hepatic receptor for LDL (5). Dietary cholesterol raises plasma LDL concentrations by exactly the same mechanism.

Whether dietary stearic acid is benign or pathogenic for coronary heart disease has been greatly clarified by Hu et al (6) in their Nurses' Health Study of >80000 women. On the basis of 14 y of follow-up data and analyses of dietary intakes, dietary stearic acid was shown to increase the risk of coronary heart disease more so than did palmitic, myristic, and lauric acids. As expected, medium- and short-chain fatty acids were not associated with a greater risk.

Proposed mechanisms for this positive relation between dietary stearic acid intake and risk of coronary heart disease must relate to factors other than plasma cholesterol and LDL concentrations. In other words, stearic acid must be pathogenic in its prehepatic phase, not after its conversion to oleic acid. One such mechanism is stearic acid's known depression of the protective lipoprotein, HDL (3). Other mechanisms include the activation of factor VII, increased lipoprotein(a) concentrations, and impairment of fibrinolysis (37). Furthermore, the consumption of foods rich in stearic acid and other saturated fats result in postprandial lipemia (chylomicrons). Such lipemia may be associated with a tendency toward thrombosis. In addition, dietary stearic acid has been associated with the progression of coronary lesions (8). In that study, Watts et al suggested that stearic acid is thrombogenic via platelet activity and the activation of coagulation (8). This suggestion is supported by evidence that stearic acid causes thrombosis in experimental animals (9).

Foods high in saturated fat (and stearic acid), which may be associated with coronary disease in the Nurses' Health Study or in other studies, are listed in Table 1.

gd point

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

With all due respect to your modship, I find it interesting that you feel that yet ANOTHER GMS thread was necessary

I wanted in on the debate and the science, but don't have time to read 28 pages of crap to get it This is also easier to read for future reference for other members.

Why "under normal conditions" ? GMS should be used preworkout.

By all means present the science to that effect, as long as it is that, it is relevant. I consider that normal conditions as well. Of course more DG and MG is broken down then, but what makes you believe that additional MG will be ? There is plenty to go around at any given time, to deliver the glycerol. What evidence shows that all DG and MG is broken down under that condition, that it would warrant the addition of more MG to deliver more glycerol ? And if so, why not use glycerol ?

Powder form / convenience / taste

Glycerol mixes well and tastes rather bland. What's more convenient than picking up a bottle at a pharm store ?

No evidence so far of greater efficiency.. but feel free to post it

The merit is had by glycerol, no matter how you twist and turn it, you will get more free glycerol out of glycerol than from GMS ...

Like most supplements it is totally optional

I meant, is there a point to it ? You should be getting more GMS and other MG's than you can use from everyday nutrition.

[kingcarlos]

more on stearic acid

some other things that will interest u gusy

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content...ct/133/12/4129
(Stearic Acid Absorption and Its Metabolizable Energy Value Are Minimally Lower than Those of Other Fatty Acids in Healthy Men Fed Mixed Diets1)

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ST/stearic_acid.html (safety issues)

www.beefnutrition.org/uDocs/Stearic_Acid.pdf

Stearic acid, which has the formula C18H36O2, is a so-called fatty acid found in tallow and other animal fats and oils, as well as in some vegetable oils. For example, corn oil is 5%, lard is 15%, butter is 10%, and human fat is 8% in stearic acid.

Influence of stearic acid on cholesterol metabolism relative to other long-chain fatty acids.

Grundy SM.

Department of Internal Medicine, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas.

Stearic acid is a long-chain saturated fatty acid. However, in contrast with other saturated fatty acids, stearic acid apparently does not raise serum cholesterol concentrations. Studies carried out three decades ago provided strong suggestive evidence that this was the case. More recent investigations that specifically compared stearic acid with other fatty acids in human studies have confirmed that stearic acid is not hypercholesterolemic. Stearic acid was shown not to raise low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol relative to oleic acid, which is known to be neutral in its effects on cholesterol concentrations. In contrast, palmitic acid, another long-chain saturated fatty acid, definitely raises cholesterol concentrations. For this reason, fats rich in stearic acid might be used in place of those high in palmitic acid in cholesterol-lowering diets.


http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content...act/127/6/1148

(Dietary Stearic Acid Reduces Plasma and Hepatic Cholesterol Concentrations without Increasing Bile Acid Excretion in Cholesterol-Fed Hamsters)

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

my thread my rules

With all due respect to your modship, I find it interesting that you feel that yet ANOTHER GMS thread was necessary

Originally Posted by Big Cat

1.Does a monoglyceride, under normal conditions, release enough free glycerol ?

Why "under normal conditions" ? GMS should be used preworkout.

Originally Posted by Big Cat

2.Does GMS have benefit over pure glycerol ?

Powder form / convenience / taste

Originally Posted by Big Cat

3.If not, why use GMS and not glycerol, given lower price and greater efficiency.

No evidence so far of greater efficiency.. but feel free to post it

Originally Posted by Big Cat

4.Is supplemental GMS necessary as it is a common food additive

Like most supplements it is totally optional

Originally Posted by Big Cat

Glycerol mixes well and tastes rather bland. What's more convenient than picking up a bottle at a pharm store ?

I have the Now 100% Glycerine, and in my opinion it is ridiculously sweet tasting. Obviously, some may prefer the powder and some may prefer the liquid.

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by Slated

From the other thread. Thought this would help make a good start

It does, the excerpt from Lipincott's shows the mechanism for obtaining free glycerol. But that's why I added the bit of under normal circumstances. there has to be a signal to reduce the glycerides in order for that mechanism to kick in, under normal circumstances it will not. Assuming you use this on a normal diet, you get adequate calories and glucose, which causes the body to spare and store fat under the influence of insulin. The fat of GMS is more likely to be GMS-DG-TG and go to a fat deposit, unless there is a caloric restriction , or unless someone tells me there is some unique drug targeting device that delivers this GMS to muscle only ...

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by kingcarlos

gd point

Fats are always a risk for coronary disease, however I doubt its extremely relevant and GMS is omni-present and we don't really seem to mind. I also doubt anyone will want to use this for longer periods of time in high doses.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

The fat of GMS is more likely to be GMS-DG-TG and go to a fat deposit, unless there is a caloric restriction , or unless someone tells me there is some unique drug targeting device that delivers this GMS to muscle only ...

Beta-oxidation

The process by which the long fatty acid chains are broken down into two carbon units and the energy provider, ATP.

It seems like (overall).... beta-oxidation has been overlooked by the majority of the forum, and I think it really is the key to understanding the supplementation of (exogenous) glycerol / GMS (vs. endogenous glycerol).

The b-oxidation of long-chain fatty acids is central to the provision of energy for the organism and is of particular importance for cardiac and skeletal muscle. However, a number of other tissues, primarily the liver, but also the kidney, small intestine and white adipose tissue, can utilize the products of b-oxidation for the formation of ketone bodies which can, in turn, be utilized for energy by other tissues. The relationship of fat oxidation with the utilization of carbohydrate as a source of energy is complex and depends upon tissue, nutritional state, exercise, development and a variety of other influences such as infection and other pathological states.

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

I have the Now 100% Glycerine, and in my opinion it is ridiculously sweet tasting. Obviously, some may prefer the powder and some may prefer the liquid.

I guess most prefer the cheaper more effective one ...

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

It seems like (overall).... beta-oxidation has been overlooked by the majority of the forum, and I think it really is the key to understanding the supplementation of (exogenous) glycerol / GMS (vs. endogenous glycerol).

Much like the excerpt states that is dependent on a great number of factors. Surely timing pre-workout is good, but systemic delivery tells me that 90% of that GMS will be utilized in fat storage, with the minimal amount reaching muscle tissue during exercise being rather irrelevant, as their is sufficient supply of MG, TG and FFA's to go around during normal exercise.

[pu12en12g]

Here is some Glycerol Monostearate anecdotal feedback:

Nathan1:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...69&postcount=1

<^> Sign Language:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...62&postcount=1

Freakie:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...4&postcount=65

Dtrain13:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...5&postcount=70

Olb33:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...9&postcount=16

D-Termine:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...05&postcount=1

[Big Cat]

Not interested in feedback, it is skewed. Your sales are of no importance, for all I care you can sell fat to kids for all eternity, whether it works or not. I'm just interested in the science. Which I feel is very much lacking.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

systemic delivery tells me that 90% of that GMS will be utilized in fat storage

I respectfully disagree

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

Not interested in feedback, it is skewed. Your sales are of no importance

My sales ? I've never sold GMS or Glycerol to anyone...ever

[pu12en12g]

Powder vs. Liquid

Originally Posted by matpal

I have no proof to back this up, just anectodal(sp) evidence...I beleive the GMS is more effective than the liquid. Glycerols and glycerines can get pretty confusing with all the different types and I strongly belive the GMS has properties that makes it better suited towards bodybuilding applications.

Perhaps someone smarter than I can interpret and take something away from this:

"One compound, glycerol, happens to have three hydroxyl groups. Glycerol can
combine with fatty acids to form compounds called glycerides.

If there is one fatty acid, you get a mono-glyceride. If there are two fatty
acids, you get a di-glyceride. When there are three fatty acids, you get a
tri-glyceride.

Stearic acid is a member of the group called fatty acids.

These are hydrocarbon chains (a chain made of repeated units of a carbon

atom and two hydrogen atoms) with a carboxyl group at one end. A carboxyl
group is the COOH in the chemical formula. It is what turns the hydrocarbon
chain into an organic acid.

The carboxyl group in organic acids is reactive, and will easily lose its
hydrogen to a compound that has a hydroxyl group, which is an oxygen atom
joined to a hydrogen atom (OH). The H from the carboxyl group joins the OH
of the hydroxyl group, and the two become HOH, more commonly seen written as
H2O, or water. The water leaves as a separate molecule, and the two original
molecules become joined at the point where the carboxyl and hydroxyl groups
were.

One compound, glycerol, happens to have three hydroxyl groups. Glycerol can
combine with fatty acids to form compounds called glycerides.

If there is one fatty acid, you get a mono-glyceride. If there are two fatty
acids, you get a di-glyceride. When there are three fatty acids, you get a
tri-glyceride.

One mono-glyceride is glycerol stearate. It is glycerol attached to stearic
acid. Because it still has two free hydroxyl groups attached to the
glycerol, that portion of the molecule is hydrophilic, attracted to water.
The long hydrocarbon chain of the stearic acid is hydrophobic, attracted to
oils and fats instead of water.

Stearic acid is a saturated fatty acid. This means it has only single bonds
between its carbon atoms. This means it can coil up and form into random
shapes. Double bonds between carbon atoms restrict the bending of the
molecule at the point of the bond, like a hinge that only lets a door swing
back and forth, not up and down. Triple bonds are even more restrictive,
locking the joint in place three-dimensionally, like the legs of a tripod.
Unlike most saturated fats, stearic acid does not seem to increase
cholesterol levels in the blood, because liver enzymes convert it to an
unsaturated fat during digestion."

[CONTROLLED LABS]

glycerol is only a liquid form. Many people get nauseated (because it is so overly sweet) or get cramping from straight glycerol. Also, the shelf life for the liquid is much shorter (only 1 year) than the GMS powder (3-4 years).

also, I don’t see the liquid available on bb.com, so there inst much of an option.

[deserusan]

This may or may not help with this discussion. However, I found it interesting to show that injestion of glycerol raises plasma glycerol levels almost immediately. Obviously, the raised levels are due to a release of existing glycerol levels in tissues (not sure what tissues) and immediately from what is being digested. Now, my question is could the "effect" of the supplement be based on enhanced gluconeogenesis?

Nutrition. 1995 Mar-Apr;11(2):149-53; Glycerol gluconeogenesis in fasting humans.

Baba H, Zhang XJ, Wolfe RR.

The contribution of glycerol to glucose production has been measured in healthy volunteers by the simultaneous primed constant infusion of 1-[13C]glycerol and 3-[3H]glucose and the determination of the rates of appearance (Ra) of glycerol, glucose, and glycerol-derived glucose. In the postabsorptive state, glycerol Ra was 3.11 +/- 0.44 mumol.kg-1.min-1, of which 36% was converted to glucose, accounting for 4.5% of total glucose production. After 62-86 h of starvation, glycerol Ra rose to 5.32 +/- 0.58 mumol.kg-1.min-1, and 68% of glycerol was converted to glucose. This accounted for 21.6% of total glucose production. Glycerol was closely correlated with its conversion and contribution to glucose. These findings confirm that the contribution of glycerol to glucose production is directly correlated to its release as a consequence of lipolysis and support the notion that the central physiological role of accelerated lipolysis in fasting is the provision of gluconeogenic precursor.

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 36, 262-265

Effects of oral glycerol on food intake in man
H Bjorvell and S Rossner

"The amount of food ingested was measured in 12 non-obese volunteers after preloads with glycerol, glycose, and water, administered in a double-blind design. A palatable soup was served in concealed containers and on different plates and the volume, consumed on each occasion, was registered. Administration of 7.5 g glycerol 20 min before the meal reduced the mean energy intake by about 10% compared to both an equicaloric amount of glucose solution or the same volume (30 ml) of water. At the start of the meal 20 min after the preload, the plasma glycerol concentration was about 10 times higher than base-line values. "

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by ISSA

Intramuscular Triglycerides (IMTG) As An Ergogenic Aid

Years ago I became fascinated with the potential role of intramuscular triglycerides (abbreviated as IMTG) as a fuel source in bodybuilding.

In 1997, diet and supplement guru Bill Phillips did an interview with a fellow named Torbjorn Akerfeldt regarding a new bodybuilding theory on nutrition which included a short mention on the importance of IMTG, a topic Mr. Akerfeldt felt American bodybuilding experts have long overlooked (11).

My ears really perked up when Akerfeldt noted that an increase in IMTG triggered protein synthesis in the body. For those of you ignorant of what increased protein synthesis does, we are indeed talking about bigger and stronger muscles. Then my eyebrow rose when he noted that high IMTG levels increased the "pump" in muscles more than when the muscle cells were full of glycogen (the stored form of carbohydrate).

Hmmm, fat is better than carbohydrate for getting the "pump", huh? That was surely going to ruffle some dietary feathers; think U.S. government food pyramid for starters. Now both my eyebrows were raised. To quote Akerfeldt on the benefits of intramuscular triglycerides: "They help trigger anabolism, they supply energy for your workouts, they help construct muscle cell membranes, and they have a cell-hydrating/cell-volumizing effect by sparing glycogen".

Shortly thereafter I read an article in which Sheel G. Anand interviewed Dr. Barry Sears of the popular Zone Diet and once again the topic convened around the role of IMTG utilization for bodybuilding purposes (12).

In this discussion Dr. Sears states that IMTG are actually the preferred source of fuel for the body during weight-training (anaerobic) exercise. Wow, yet another slap in the face to carbohydrates! Yep, intramuscular triglyceride as an aid to enhancing performance certainly got my attention. Could the fat inside your muscle cells really help you gain size and strength?

Is it the preferred source of fuel for muscles? Well folks, it appears maybe we have cast an inattentive focus on this topic for far too long ... let's see what opinions and research studies have to say about it shall we?

Why Are Fats Called Lipids?

Fats are called lipids in scientific jargon. Many people believe that all fat is stored in the adipose tissue, what is more generally referred to as "body fat", and that the body has only two major sources of fuel it can use: stored fat or stored carbohydrate (glycogen).

True, lipids and carbohydrate are the major fuels for muscular work and it is generally correct to think that the fat and carbohydrate oxidized (burned) during exercise are derived predominantly from triglyceride (fat) and glycogen stored within the body.

Fat and carbohydrate storage within muscle fibers are called intramuscular triglycerides (IMTG's) and glycogen respectively. The muscle fibers use either the stored IMTG or glycogen or it is transported to them via circulation in the form of plasma free fatty acids (FFA), and plasma triglycerides or plasma glucose (1). Plasma FFA and triglycerides are the primary precursors for the resynthesis of IMTG (7).

One obvious benefit of using fat as a fuel is the fact that we have so much of it! A typical person may have 100,000 calories stored as fat and maybe only 2,000 calories stored in carbohydrate form. A 154 pound man with 15% body fat would have close to two pounds of fat in his muscle cells, half of this readily available as fuel for muscle contraction.

The point here is that IMTG's represent a larger percentage of potential energy in the body than does glycogen. The average person has approximately 3 times more IMTG than they do glycogen in the body, and have approximately 6 times more adipose tissue than intramuscular fat; obviously these ratios will vary somewhat depending on the persons body composition.

Okay, time for a little science. Intramuscular triglyceride (IMTG) is defined as lipid droplets stored within the cytoplasm of skeletal muscle fiber cells. This is a preferential location for this lipid to be situated because it places the fat closer to the site of energy production in the muscle fiber - called the mitochondria - where free fatty acids (FFA) released via hydrolysis (breakdown process) are ultimately metabolized.

Mitochondrial structure.

What that means is it allows intramuscular fat to be utilized at a higher rate than adipose tissue. Going a little deeper here, the pathway of IMTG concentration is said to initiate from the plasma FFA to the intramuscular NEFA (a small intracellular nonesterified FA pool) and finally to the IMTG pool.

The amount of IMTG found within individual fibers, between different fiber types, and between muscle groups varies. Unlike muscle glycogen, which has nearly equal amounts of glycogen stored in both Type I (endurance) and Type II (explosive) muscle fibers, lipid is stored in much greater quantities (2.8-fold) in Type I compared with the Type 11 fibers that give us big muscles.

Nonetheless, it is clear that muscle contains abundant triglyceride deposits and fat is a major fuel in endurance related (submaximal) exercise.

One challenge that stumped researchers for quite some time was how muscle triglyceride is broken down to be used as a fuel. Until recently, we didn't even know which enzyme initiated the breakdown of triglycerides. During exercise the breakdown of IMTG is thought to be completed by two enzymes.

It has now been demonstrated that hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) exists in muscle and is considered to be the rate-limiting enzyme for IMTG hydrolysis. HSL is believed to be regulated by intramuscular (contraction) and extramuscular (epinephrine/adrenalin) factors (2). Muscle HSL content correlates well with the known concentrations of IMTG storage and the oxidative capacity of skeletal muscle fiber types, thus implying the presence of lipolytic (fatmobilizing) activity in skeletal muscle.

What Did The Experts Say?

One may wonder why we don't have an in-depth knowledge on the role of IMTG utilization in exercising muscles. Heck, I e-mailed two official Zone websites regarding existing research on IMTG specifically for anaerobic (weight-training) exercise and each response came with a four-letter word reply: NONE.

That's right, I gazed sheepishly at a 17" monitor with only the word "NONE" on it... I was so dismayed I considered forwarding an alternative version of a four-letter word reply! Considering I had spent countless hours tracking studies specifically related to resistance exercise to no avail, I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised by this outcome. The initial challenge for researchers was finding a way to accurately measure IMTG's.

Traditional techniques (e.g., radio active-tracer methods) were unlikely to be suitable for measuring the metabolic parameters of IMTG pools. However, the advent of a more useful technique appears to be by "infusing C-labeled FFA tracers and measuring enrichment with gas chromatography-combustion-isotope ratio mass spectrometry (GC/C/IRMS)".

Yep, that's a certainly a handful right there, however the resulting approach has proven successful in measuring the metabolic parameters of fatty acids and should be useful for further studies of skeletal muscle lipid metabolism (7). The technique used on humans to measure IMTG is from muscle samples obtained by the needle-biopsy technique that are analyzed by chemical extraction.

Generally, samples obtained pre- and post exercise are freeze-dried and dissected free of non-muscle contaminants under magnification. Thereafter it is isolated, hydrolyzed, and the final concentration is related to the amount of released glycerol or FFA in solution (2).

Thus, with the advent of more sophisticated techniques, we have been able to jump over a major hurdle in finding a better way to accurately measure IMTG parameters. Things are definitely looking better.

.....

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

I meant, is there a point to it ?

Yes.. in my opinion.. but like most supplements, don't expect steroid-like gains.

The glycerol is broken down to pyruvate to form ATP (done by phosphorylation). The pyruvate is oxidized by the Krebs cycle. This glycerol molecule gives out 19 ATP and takes place when GLYCOGEN RESERVES DEPLETE DUE TO HEAVY TRAINING OR CARBOHYDRATE RESTRICTION.

[kingcarlos]

pu, can u post the study on how GMS can help/aid in cell volumizing? i feel that we should more on the possible advantages/disadvantages GMS offer other than keep on suggesting what GMS is and try to find possible effects from its individual monomers(sori for my lack of chem knowledge)? and piece them together

[Black_Spit]

I have a few q?'s. I think a few things have been lost in all of this.

*I've been taught that glycerine a carbohydrate(sugar alcohol). As I've been searching to educate myself on this subject, I see that Glycerin, Glycerine and Glycerol are in fact the same thing, and that they are considered a fatty acid. Interesting, so, what is GMS?

*Secondly, anyone want to offer any speculation as to how this nutrient will affect a CKD diet? Where glycogen is depleted throuhout the week and refilled on the weekends? It looks promising for use through a carb-up, as well as potentially pre-workout on a ckd.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by Black_Spit

I have a few q?'s. I think a few things have been lost in all of this.

*I've been taught that glycerine a carbohydrate(sugar alcohol). As I've been searching to educate myself on this subject, I see that Glycerin, Glycerine and Glycerol are in fact the same thing, and that they are considered a fatty acid. Interesting, so, what is GMS?

*Secondly, anyone want to offer any speculation as to how this nutrient will affect a CKD diet? Where glycogen is depleted throuhout the week and refilled on the weekends? It looks promising for use through a carb-up, as well as potentially pre-workout on a ckd.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think this belongs in this thread. There a lot of others which could address your first question. As for you dietary question I would suggest starting your own thread.

[Black_Spit]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think this belongs in this thread. There a lot of others which could address your first question. As for you dietary question I would suggest starting your own thread.

I didn't mean it the way it reads. I didn't mean it to say 'what is GMS.' I just meant it to say 'Which is GMS' considered, a Sugar Alcohol or a Fatty Acid.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Black_Spit

I didn't mean it the way it reads. I didn't mean it to say 'what is GMS.' I just meant it to say 'Which is GMS' considered, a Sugar Alcohol or a Fatty Acid.

Glycerol is esterified with stearic acid to form Glycerol MonoStearate

stearic acid = a carboxylic acid

Glycerol / Glycerine = a trihydric alcohol, possessing two primary and one secondary hydroxyl groups, which are its potential reaction sites and the basis for glycerin’s versatility as a chemical raw material

....

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Black_Spit

anyone want to offer any speculation as to how this nutrient will affect a CKD diet? Where glycogen is depleted throuhout the week and refilled on the weekends? It looks promising for use through a carb-up, as well as potentially pre-workout on a ckd.

It should be outstanding for all types of carb cycling.. but that applies to both GMS and Liquid Glycerine / Glycerol.

[pu12en12g]

Continued

<img src="http://www.richmond.edu/~jbell2/L24f9.JPG">

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

I have the Now 100% Glycerine, and in my opinion it is ridiculously sweet tasting. Obviously, some may prefer the powder and some may prefer the liquid.

The powder is impossible to take without choking it up, I have no idea how people use the Bulk GMS Powder.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Chronicdrummer9

The powder is impossible to take without choking it up, I have no idea how people use the Bulk GMS Powder.

1) Pour __ grams into your mouth

2) Chase it with your favorite beverage