Average bench for age REPS

[Kiknskreem]

If you work in the business/corporate world I agree with you.

Even that's not true because barbell lifts require you to balance and stabilize your body, improve your nervous sytem function, balance, kinesthetic awareness, resistance to injury, a full ROM barbell lift is an excellent stretch, increases bone density, fights degeneration.....

Not that all of those benefits are specific only to barbell training, but even this is a far from complete list of the resulting adaptations to barbell work.

These qualities are functional no matter what you are training for, specifically, or what your everyday demands are.

[Uriel_da_man]

Incorrect. You can do all the leg extensions and leg curls you want... your performance will pale in comparison to someone who does squats and deadlifts because in the real world your body acts as a whole and was designed to perform certain biomechanical functions that are integral parts of the basc barbell lifts. Your entire leg is designed to work together... over millions of years of vertebrates evolving on this planet there are no naturally encountered obstacles which work for instance, the quadriceps or hamstrings in total isolation.

I suggest you check out Crossfit.



Again, this belies a MAJOR misunderstanding of the ways in which carryover occurs. I really don't think this conversation is going anywhere until you take a basic primer on athletic training.

No offense, but you're the one who "belies a major misunderstanding" (I don't get impressed or intimidated by fancy words, sorry)

If I do leg curls and leg extensions my performance will pale in comparison to someone who does squats...but my performance at what, exactly? Walking around? Not a difference in the world, aside from maybe placebo. Not to mention that's not much of a comparison as squats use far more muscles than those two combined - again, you're missing the point.

Your body doesn't "learn to work in a unit". Your body learns MOVEMENT PATTERNS. Every movement has a certain nervous "map" - which muscle fibers are flexed, in which order - which is always UNIQUE to that movement.

Somebody who squats a lot of weight doesn't necessarily have more balance outside the squat's range of motion than someone who doesn't squat - he has more muscular strength, but the squat doesn't train any movement patterns outside its own.

And the squat vs leg extensions and leg curls analogy doesn't fly, you're leaving out plenty of muscles that the squat uses that those other two don't.

But regardless, neither will give you any significant carryover to simply walking around, simply because any normal human already has more than enough strength on those muscles.

[Kiknskreem]

If I do leg curls and leg extensions my performance will pale in comparison to someone who does squats...but my performance at what, exactly?

Survival, athletic performace, general functioning.....

Your body doesn't "learn to work in a unit". Your body learns MOVEMENT PATTERNS. Every movement has a certain nervous "map" - which muscle fibers are flexed, in which order - which is always UNIQUE to that movement.

Somebody who squats a lot of weight doesn't necessarily have more balance outside the squat's range of motion than someone who doesn't squat - he has more muscular strength, but the squat doesn't train any movement patterns outside its own.

You're missing the point, the squat, deadlift, clean, etc.... THOSE VERY MOVEMENTS are the same movement patterns and functions that are commonly used by people in their everyday life.

But regardless, neither will give you any significant carryover to simply walking around, simply because any normal human already has more than enough strength on those muscles.

It is about FAR more than simple muscular strength.

barbell lifts require you to balance and stabilize your body, improve your nervous sytem function, balance, kinesthetic awareness, resistance to injury, a full ROM barbell lift is an excellent stretch, increases bone density, fights degeneration.....

Not that all of those benefits are specific only to barbell training, but even this is a far from complete list of the resulting adaptations to barbell work.

These qualities are functional no matter what you are training for, specifically, or what your everyday demands are.

Basic barbell lifts (and their patterns of movement, squats, pulls, etc) make up the core programs for athletes across virtually all sports for a reason.

[Uriel_da_man]

Survival, athletic performace, general functioning.....

Athletic performance? Sure. Survival? Maybe. General functioning? For 9 out of 10 people, won't make a difference.

You're missing the point, the squat, deadlift, clean, etc.... THOSE VERY MOVEMENTS are the same movement patterns and functions that are commonly used by people in their everyday life.

Not really. Again, I, and everyone I know, must have pretty unusual lifes, because we don't squat down with added weight a lot, and even without added weight only we go to the bathroom I guess, but then again like I said anybody otherwise healthy has enough strength for that without needing weightlifting, so, again, no difference. Deadlift? Well, yeah, if you have to pick heavy objects off the floor a lot. I guess some jobs require that, but the most weight most people ever pick off the floor is a 20lbs box, and yet again, you don't need to lift weights to be strong enough for that.

It is about FAR more than simple muscular strength.

If your point is that it improves coordination, I will point out again that squatting gives you coordination...at squatting.

Basic barbell lifts (and their patterns of movement, squats, pulls, etc) make up the core programs for athletes across virtually all sports for a reason.

Yeah, because they train a lot of muscles with a mechanic advantage, which allows for efficient overload, which allows for significant muscle gains, which will in turn allow for better performances at whatever else they do athletically.

Anyways this discussion is going nowhere. You're missing how the concept of neurological adaptation works, and quite frankly my english is too rusty to explain it to you properly (just for this reply I had to spell-check some 10 times, I don't post nearly as often as I used to).