Average bench for age REPS

[GoJu]

Well when I want to have uber horizontal pushing power in general I will be sure to hop back on the benchpress for some serious statchasing like the good ol' dayz.

you're a hypocrite.

you were able to get a big bench, why can't other people want to try and do the same thing?

[therorschach]

[Defiant1]

the SAID principle of specificity is bull****.

C'mon Goju....

NO ONE believes that.

[GoJu]

C'mon Goju....

NO ONE believes that.

no, only you who thinks there's no such thing as carryover between exercises, but I digress I wasn't talking to you.

[Kiknskreem]

Pretty much all the big compounds preached around as "funcional" get very little carryover to the real world.

Please...... do tell.

Enlighten myself and the rest of the athletic community.

[DiamondDelts]

you're a hypocrite.

you were able to get a big bench, why can't other people want to try and do the same thing?

I'm not saying they shouldn't try for it. Only thing I am saying is they should realize in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't mean ****. Not all but some guys get no chest development whatsoever from the benchpress but they keep with it anyways for the numbers and the supposed strength carryover. I believe the latter part is bull**** but if chasing numbers makes some people feel all warm and fuzzy inside then I can't take that from him. At the end of the day we alll have to do what makes us the individual happy. Even if it is against the online status quo.

[nads786]

Well, when in life do you bend over to pull something to your waist? (unless you've been reading some Kamasutra of course)

Pretty much all the big compounds preached around as "funcional" get very little carryover to the real world. As a matter of fact, one of the lifts that gets the most carryover to the real world in terms of neurological adaptation is the curl! (seen as that's how people usually carry boxes and stuff around)

Of course all lifts get some carryover in terms of muscles used, just not in terms of the way they are used.

x2 i have gotten almost no carryover not that i give a crap, i just wanna look big

[Defiant1]

no, only you who thinks there's no such thing as carryover between exercises, but I digress I wasn't talking to you.

Name ONE person who believes that the SAID principle is bull****.

[battousai216]

I'm not saying they shouldn't try for it. Only thing I am saying is they should realize in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't mean ****. Not all but some guys get no chest development whatsoever from the benchpress but they keep with it anyways for the numbers and the supposed strength carryover. I believe the latter part is bull**** but if chasing numbers makes some people feel all warm and fuzzy inside then I can't take that from him. At the end of the day we alll have to do what makes us the individual happy. Even if it is against the online status quo.

i can't believe i am saying this, but i agree with diamond delts. The bench press is the single most overrated exercise there is IMO. It does almost nothing for developing the kind of strength used in day to day life, it is a mediocre chest developer at best, the only thing the bench press really does for you is make you better at bench press. If people want to do bench press to get better at it more power to them, but it is not the #1 test of strength/muscle builder lots of people seem to believe it is.

[DiamondDelts]

i can't believe i am saying this, but i agree with diamond delts......

You know it feels good sugar plum.

[battousai216]

You know it feels good sugar plum.

god damnit...i lol'd...

[Uriel_da_man]

Please...... do tell.

Enlighten myself and the rest of the athletic community.

When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy in front of you?
When in your everyday activities do you pull something heavy to you?
When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy over your head?
When in your everyday activities do you pull yourself up over something?
When in your everyday activities do you rest something on your upper back and squat down and back up with it?

Unless you've got a very unusual job, the answer to all those questions is...rarely.

[GoJu]

When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy in front of you?
When in your everyday activities do you pull something heavy to you?
When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy over your head?
When in your everyday activities do you pull yourself up over something?
When in your everyday activities do you rest something on your upper back and squat down and back up with it?

Unless you've got a very unusual job, the answer to all those questions is...rarely.

why do athletes lift weights?

[karl77]

I think bench 1.3-1.5x your weight after 2 years of training is alright to good!

But only it your over 14 though!

Any adult male should at least be able to bench 1.5 x his own bodyweight,should'nt take 2 yrs though !!

[Kiknskreem]

When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy in front of you?
When in your everyday activities do you pull something heavy to you?
When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy over your head?
When in your everyday activities do you pull yourself up over something?
When in your everyday activities do you rest something on your upper back and squat down and back up with it?

Unless you've got a very unusual job, the answer to all those questions is...rarely.

This post belies a total misunderstanding of the meaning functional and how it applies to the barbell lifts.

They replicate commonly encountered natural human movement patterns. They train the body to work the way it was desiged.... as a whole. They train balance, kinesthetic awareness, involve the transfer of forces in ways that happen in the real world.

[Uriel_da_man]

why do athletes lift weights?

Mostly because it strengthens the muscles and connective tissue, and many athletic activities use the same movement patterns as some weight training exercises (like jumping and squatting, or rowing weights and rowing on an actual boat).

This post belies a total misunderstanding of the meaning functional and how it applies to the barbell lifts.

They replicate commonly encountered natural human movement patterns. They train the body to work the way it was desiged.... as a whole. They train balance, kinesthetic awareness, involve the transfer of forces in ways that happen in the real world.

Commonly encountered natural human movement patterns? I almost never encounter a movement pattern comparable to the exercises I mentioned in my previous post outside the gym. But hey, like I said, who knows, maybe you do get tons of carryover, maybe you're a professional...err...mechanic? And so lay down on your back a lot while pushing heavy objects up horizontal to your torso, so you benefit from bench presses? Or if you're a lumberjack, but haven't yeat heard of chainsaws, then I guess bent over rows get carryover. Or you install some kind of huge lightbulbs for a living, so you need to lift heavy objects overhead? Or you work in a watermill, but when there's no water you have to spin it yourself, pulling the steps down to you? Or you're a shepherd, and your cattle get hurt a lot, so you have to carry them on your back? Or...hum, I'm out of ideas, what is your job anyway, or what do you do at home that gets such carryover, do tell?

[Kiknskreem]

Commonly encountered natural human movement patterns? I almost never encounter a movement pattern comparable to the exercises I mentioned in my previous post outside the gym. But hey, like I said, who knows, maybe you do get tons of carryover, maybe you're a professional...err...mechanic?

Then you don't understand the biomechanics of the core lifts very well.

Try and go a day without doing much hip/ knee or shoulder flexion and extension.

When you sit down on a couch, when you pick up your keys off the floor, when you reach above the fridge for you tub of protein, when you thrust your hips tenderly (or not so tenderly) into your lover.... the core lifts are not "gym lifts". They are simply a loadable expression of the evolutionarily created ranges of motion and usages of your joints, muscles, and skeletal system.

Let me ask you something... have you ever heard of "strongman"? Know what about 2/3 of strongman training consists of?

Anywhoo. I've got to be off to work but I await your response.

[GoJu]

Then you don't understand the biomechanics of the core lifts very well.

Try and go a day without doing much hip/ knee or shoulder flexion and extension.

When you sit down on a couch, when you pick up your keys off the floor, when you reach above the fridge for you tub of protein, when you thrust your hips tenderly (or not so tenderly) into your lover.... the core lifts are not "gym lifts". They are simply a loadable expression of the evolutionarily created ranges of motion and usages of your joints, muscles, and skeletal system.

Let me ask you something... have you ever heard of "strongman"? Know what about 2/3 of strongman training consists of?

Anywhoo. I've got to be off to work but I await your response.

he thinks Ronnie is stronger than Marius...

[yanksbgood]

i can't believe i am saying this, but i agree with diamond delts. The bench press is the single most overrated exercise there is IMO. It does almost nothing for developing the kind of strength used in day to day life, it is a mediocre chest developer at best, the only thing the bench press really does for you is make you better at bench press. If people want to do bench press to get better at it more power to them, but it is not the #1 test of strength/muscle builder lots of people seem to believe it is.

Yeah, unfortunatly I got to jump on this boat as well. I believe this man has spoken the truth. Flat benching is something that has never really worked well for me.

[ChingChang]

Haha, i love your ongoing frustration with the average lifter's bench press obsession.
Im on the same page with you there, the bench press is a poor measure of upper body strength.

-J

I said that once, and some 15 year old negged me. Then his misc butt buddy negged me too.

[Porthos]

Then you don't understand the biomechanics of the core lifts very well.

Try and go a day without doing much hip/ knee or shoulder flexion and extension.

When you sit down on a couch, when you pick up your keys off the floor, when you reach above the fridge for you tub of protein, when you thrust your hips tenderly (or not so tenderly) into your lover.... the core lifts are not "gym lifts". They are simply a loadable expression of the evolutionarily created ranges of motion and usages of your joints, muscles, and skeletal system.

Let me ask you something... have you ever heard of "strongman"? Know what about 2/3 of strongman training consists of?

Anywhoo. I've got to be off to work but I await your response.

I got a question for you and I'm not trying to be a dick about this (I have to add this preface because lets face it bb.com tends to have a lot of people sniping at each other and I'm asking because I'm interested in seeing your response).

Wouldn't it be just more practical for people to train aerobic / anaerobic endurance? I mean you say the core lifts and how the correlate with everyday activities, but it's rare that someone would have to lift extremely heavy objects.

Even if they did the controlled lifting you can do in a gym wouldn't be there...i.e. the weight would be unbalanced, perhaps shifting, etc, etc. Unless you train with sandbags, stones, etc, gym lifts wouldn't transfer into heavy real world lifts. Also, you'd have to do these lifts raw, no belts, chalk, etc.

However, in everyday life you might have to run to catch a train, run up 10 flights of steps, or lift light to moderately heavy weights multiple times. So, technically wouldn't it be more advisable instead of doing heavy lifts to do more cardio, more lighter endurance lifting, etc?

See the problem with this thread really started with DiamondDelts, oh noes, lol, trying to insult the bench press by saying what real world situation would you use it in...well, most of the lifts done for bodybuilding (even powerlifting) doesn't necessarily transfer into real world scenarios. I mean are you really going to shrug a car to lift it off the ground or are you just going to use a car jack?

At the moment I agree with Uriel that most lifts aren't really practical in real world situations. If they were essential you'd see a lot more fat people, unfit people, etc, being unable to exist in the world.

Bottom line though, if people want to go after a big bench, dead, squat, whatever, they should and that's their goal it's all good. Just like the bodybuilder that wants lats so wide they can take flight.

[Uriel_da_man]

Then you don't understand the biomechanics of the core lifts very well.

Try and go a day without doing much hip/ knee or shoulder flexion and extension.

When you sit down on a couch, when you pick up your keys off the floor, when you reach above the fridge for you tub of protein, when you thrust your hips tenderly (or not so tenderly) into your lover.... the core lifts are not "gym lifts". They are simply a loadable expression of the evolutionarily created ranges of motion and usages of your joints, muscles, and skeletal system.

Let me ask you something... have you ever heard of "strongman"? Know what about 2/3 of strongman training consists of?

Anywhoo. I've got to be off to work but I await your response.

You're the one who is missing the point entirely. I suggest you read up on the SAID principle. Weightlifting gets carryover to real life BECAUSE IT TRAINS THE MUSCLES, NOT BECAUSE IT TRAINS IN ANY WAY SIMILAR PLAINS OF MOTION, and even as far as the muscles are concerned for daily activities weightlifting is more or less useless for healthy people, seen as the intensity needed for 99% of your daily tasks is very low - you won't get more carry over pushing the gas pedal and then walking from the car to your doorstep from heavy squats than you'd get from jogging - the bigger muscles won't make a difference, because for such a situation even small muscles are plenty.

"Strongman" is one of the few jobs to which weightlifting gets carryover - CARRYOVER IN THE SENSE OF PLANES OF MOTION TRAINED. A strongman needs to push heavy logs overhead - hence carryover from shoulder presses. A strongman needs to pull heavy trucks - hence carryover from bent over rows. The list goes on. But strongman is not a "normal" job, I asked what normal jobs get carryover from weightlifting, nobody has answered my question thus far.

[Uriel_da_man]

he thinks Ronnie is stronger than Marius...

You think IFBB pros should do westside.

[Defiant1]

You're the one who is missing the point entirely. I suggest you read up on the SAID principle. Weightlifting gets carryover to real life BECAUSE IT TRAINS THE MUSCLES, NOT BECAUSE IT TRAINS IN ANY WAY SIMILAR PLAINS OF MOTION, and even as far as the muscles are concerned for daily activities weightlifting is more or less useless for healthy people, seen as the intensity needed for 99% of your daily tasks is very low - you won't get more carry over pushing the gas pedal and then walking from the car to your doorstep from heavy squats than you'd get from jogging - the bigger muscles won't make a difference, because for such a situation even small muscles are plenty.

"Strongman" is one of the few jobs to which weightlifting gets carryover - CARRYOVER IN THE SENSE OF PLANES OF MOTION TRAINED. A strongman needs to push heavy logs overhead - hence carryover from shoulder presses. A strongman needs to pull heavy trucks - hence carryover from bent over rows. The list goes on. But strongman is not a "normal" job, I asked what normal jobs get carryover from weightlifting, nobody has answered my question thus far.

Plus, "Strongman" competitors train the specific events they are competing in....

I wonder why?..........................................

Here's the deal: NO ONE disputes the SAID principle. Not bodybuilders, not strength coaches, not physiologists.....NO ONE. The ENTIRE evolutionary benefit to adaptation is for RESOURCE CONSERVATION. Not for MAXIMIZING PERFORMANCE. That's why Bench Pressing for singles doesn't make you a good squatter, or even a hard puncher. IT IS ALSO WHY BODYBUILDERS AREN'T AS STRONG FOR SINGLES IN THE BIG 3 AS POWERLIFTERS, AND WHY O-LIFTERS CAN'T SIMPLY ENTER POWERLIFTING CONTESTS AND WIN, AND VICE VERSA. This ridiculous "what I do is best for me, AND for you too, you just don't know it" needs to go. Why the f*ck do people have to justify what they do so much? Let the proof be in the pudding.

I see people talking about "how the body works" but not acknowledging "how the body works"... adaptation is fairly specific.

Is there some carryover? Yes. Of course.

But simply specializing on "the big 3" is not going to make you ANY more athletic in general than someone who did Inclines, Front squats, and Rows...

and will make you LESS athletic (potentially) than someone who uses more variety.


and training for max singles is going to make you good at THAT plane of movement for ONE REP.

Period.

[phuz]

Any adult male should at least be able to bench 1.5 x his own bodyweight,should'nt take 2 yrs though !!

I'm 6'2 225. So when I started lifting (last October), I was benching 150 x 8. Now I am benching 225 x 8. And you're saying that I should be doing 375 x 8 in less than 2 years?

I don't see it.

[RelentlessChaos]

i can't believe i am saying this, but i agree with diamond delts. The bench press is the single most overrated exercise there is IMO. It does almost nothing for developing the kind of strength used in day to day life, it is a mediocre chest developer at best, the only thing the bench press really does for you is make you better at bench press. If people want to do bench press to get better at it more power to them, but it is not the #1 test of strength/muscle builder lots of people seem to believe it is.

agreed. I was just curious, so i made this thread. Arms are something i have always loved worrking, and you use them way more than your chest. Everyone i know is bench happy, and the question is "how much can you bench" I may be up near the top with my class in benching. But in curling im #1. I love arm and back day. IMO you use your arms and back a lot more than chest and tri's in your daily life.

Depending on your job.(if you have a hard job)

[swa513]

I'm 6'2 225. So when I started lifting (last October), I was benching 150 x 8. Now I am benching 225 x 8. And you're saying that I should be doing 375 x 8 in less than 2 years?

I don't see it.

i think he means 1 rep max but, still if you weight over 150 and are taller than 5'7" i dont see it happening in 2 years most people have the potential to bench that much or more but it will take longer. and the average for non gym goers is far less than 200lbs. **** the average for gym goers at my gym is also less then 200

[Kiknskreem]

Wouldn't it be just more practical for people to train aerobic / anaerobic endurance? I mean you say the core lifts and how the correlate with everyday activities, but it's rare that someone would have to lift extremely heavy objects.

If you are interested in overall health and functioning, then yes aerobic and anaerobic endurance should not be neglected. Weight training alone is far from enough to make you a well rounded athlete.... this is where conditioning and GPP come in, and they should be included by everyone concerned with their performance. In terms of the intensity, this isort of a moot point. The heavy weights involved bring about a whole host of physiological adaptations, connective tissue and bone density for instance both benefit. The load is an integral part of the adaptive process.

Even if they did the controlled lifting you can do in a gym wouldn't be there...i.e. the weight would be unbalanced, perhaps shifting, etc, etc. Unless you train with sandbags, stones, etc, gym lifts wouldn't transfer into heavy real world lifts. Also, you'd have to do these lifts raw, no belts, chalk, etc.

This is where people take the idea of specificity too far. Barbell work does not totally prepare you for the rigors of physical work.... and active resistance (such as lifting filled kegs and sandbags) is a VERY useful tool, especially for those trying to MAXIMIZE functional ability. However, basic strength is still a HUGE component in daily functioning.

To illustrate this point, we could set up a strongman medley consisting of reasonably weighted, yet still "odd" implements. I would SMOKE my mother, or even other untrained young men in this because strength is still an integral component. To say there is zero transfer as your post seems to intimate is false. Who would you ask to help you move? Your skinny untrained friend... or the one with the 1000+ total?

See the problem with this thread really started with DiamondDelts, oh noes, lol, trying to insult the bench press by saying what real world situation would you use it in...well, most of the lifts done for bodybuilding (even powerlifting) doesn't necessarily transfer into real world scenarios. I mean are you really going to shrug a car to lift it off the ground or are you just going to use a car jack?

I am not talking about deadlifting cars with special a special apparatus... I am talking about the core barbell lifts. Things like squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, cleans, snatches, etc.

It is true that the bench does not have great real-world carryover... this is because the kinetic chain starts at the bench and ends at the bar... you are rarely lying down in the real world. For this reason, the OH press is a much more useful lift. The one advantage the bench has is that you can use a much greater load. The OH press involves transferring a force into the ground through the legs and torso, while supporting the body with its postural muscles, the way things happen when you do pretty much anything. The relevance of the basic barbell lifts has far more to do than simply replicating commonly encountered biomechanical positions... but that is still a big part of it.

At the moment I agree with Uriel that most lifts aren't really practical in real world situations. If they were essential you'd see a lot more fat people, unfit people, etc, being unable to exist in the world.

Pretty much the entire sport and exercise science community disagrees with this. If you don't think there ARE a lot of fat, unfit people having problems.... I don't know what country you are living in.

You're the one who is missing the point entirely. I suggest you read up on the SAID principle. Weightlifting gets carryover to real life BECAUSE IT TRAINS THE MUSCLES, NOT BECAUSE IT TRAINS IN ANY WAY SIMILAR PLAINS OF MOTION,

Incorrect. You can do all the leg extensions and leg curls you want... your performance will pale in comparison to someone who does squats and deadlifts because in the real world your body acts as a whole and was designed to perform certain biomechanical functions that are integral parts of the basc barbell lifts. Your entire leg is designed to work together... over millions of years of vertebrates evolving on this planet there are no naturally encountered obstacles which work for instance, the quadriceps or hamstrings in total isolation.

I suggest you check out Crossfit.

and even as far as the muscles are concerned for daily activities weightlifting is more or less useless for healthy people, seen as the intensity needed for 99% of your daily tasks is very low - you won't get more carry over pushing the gas pedal and then walking from the car to your doorstep from heavy squats than you'd get from jogging - the bigger muscles won't make a difference, because for such a situation even small muscles are plenty.

Again, this belies a MAJOR misunderstanding of the ways in which carryover occurs. I really don't think this conversation is going anywhere until you take a basic primer on athletic training.

[beachstoyboy]

When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy in front of you?
When in your everyday activities do you pull something heavy to you?
When in your everyday activities do you push something heavy over your head?
When in your everyday activities do you pull yourself up over something?
When in your everyday activities do you rest something on your upper back and squat down and back up with it?

Unless you've got a very unusual job, the answer to all those questions is...rarely.

If you work in the business/corporate world I agree with you. But I would say there are a lot of everyday blue collar workers out there whose jobs involve quite a bit of lifting, and do not consider their jobs very unusual. Granted most lifts are not going to precisely mimic real life situations, but they should prepare your body to better handle the stresses involved in a physical job.

[beachstoyboy]

"Strongman" is one of the few jobs to which weightlifting gets carryover - CARRYOVER IN THE SENSE OF PLANES OF MOTION TRAINED. A strongman needs to push heavy logs overhead - hence carryover from shoulder presses. A strongman needs to pull heavy trucks - hence carryover from bent over rows. The list goes on. But strongman is not a "normal" job, I asked what normal jobs get carryover from weightlifting, nobody has answered my question thus far.

Construction Workers, Dock Workers, Warehouse workers, etc. I myself work in foodservice, which I do not really consider blue collar, but I find myself having to lift 100 lb containers all the time, and put heavy boxes on a shelf above my head. Granted, they are not weight room size numbers, but generally the more weight you can handle, the easier and less dangerous these jobs become.