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  1. #1
    Registered User De Haan's Avatar
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    Ben Johnson 700 Lbs Squat

    The sprinter Ben Johnson back in his heyday could squat 700 lbs and run the 100M in 9.79 sec.
    He only weighed 180 lbs and thats why he was so fast (and had great genes etc.).
    So if any regular person at 180 lbs squats 700 lbs then they should be equally as fast, shouldnt they???
    Apprantly this is not the case and I dont understand why.
    I've been told it has something to do with Fast Twitch Muscles.

    So my question is, how the heck do you train fast twitch muslces?????
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    Far Beyond Driven P0W3RLIFT3R87's Avatar
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    To be just as fast, you would have to train to run 100m. Squatting heavy doesn't make you fast at sprinting. You have to train for both to be good at both.
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    Registered User AangleN's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dynamin
    The sprinter Ben Johnson back in his heyday could squat 700 lbs and run the 100M in 9.79 sec.
    He only weighed 180 lbs and thats why he was so fast (and had great genes etc.).
    So if any regular person at 180 lbs squats 700 lbs then they should be equally as fast, shouldnt they???
    Apprantly this is not the case and I dont understand why.
    I've been told it has something to do with Fast Twitch Muscles.

    So my question is, how the heck do you train fast twitch muslces?????
    ok, then why doesn't he have the world record in that weight class? please tell me a credible source because i said no f-ing way.
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    Registered User joshwilson1's Avatar
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    He was more than likely doing other Olympic lifts, such as power cleans and snatches, pushpresses, plyometrics, etc. He was trying to maximize his fast twitch muscles, so I am not sure he would pause at the bottom of a squat like a powerlifter would.

    He may not hold any record because he never competed. I am sure he was not concerened about anything but sprinting. Also, knowing that he took steroids, it is fair to assume that he knew his piss was dirty and he would never be able to compete.
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    lmao....why do people always believe what they hear.... he never did and never will squat 700 lbs.
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    Registered User joshwilson1's Avatar
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    Are you positive he never was able to squat 700 lbs?
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    I find it credible that he did it.

    In any case, there are supposedly some difference in myofibrils in individuals, even if they have the same ratio of fast/slow twitch muscle. Some people's myosin attaches to the actin tightly, so these people can lift more weight with training, but the attaching and detaching is slower, so they don't have as much potential for sprinting. Some people are the other way around, it attaches more loosley so it can contract and relax muscle more quickly, but can't lift quite as much.
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    I <3 Tranny Feet Perceptionist's Avatar
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    Dynamin stop thinking with a one track mind and really look at the questions you are asking...

    If you want to become a better sprinter you need to train for it...there are many exercises you can do to help with building a more explosive fist step, low end acceleration, and top end finish...a lot of times the problem I see with athletes is their first step is so horribly slow...sometimes it's their technique off the start or they just plain suck...in all, this with dynamic flexibility work will help with your stride length and imo will help your legs move faster too...don't worry about fast twich, slow twich muscles...just work on what you need to do to become faster and quicker...and if you are already a pretty fast kid without the proper training to begin with, more power to you...
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    Registered User Radok's Avatar
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    ^yes, that is the practical explanation. Work on start out of the blocks and plyos, along with 200m runs for developing your top speed.
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    Damn! That's close to a 4x bodyweight squat!
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    Originally Posted by Eddie Debus
    lmao....why do people always believe what they hear.... he never did and never will squat 700 lbs.
    He did squat 600x2x6 ATG, I believe. I find it easy to believe that he could squat 700.
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    Registered User NewBlackDak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joshwilson1
    ...so I am not sure he would pause at the bottom of a squat like a powerlifter would....

    WTF!!
    If you're pausing at the bottom of a normal squat you're doing something VERY wrong.

    Pause squats are a training technique not something you do at competitions.


    Originally Posted by Heisman2
    He did squat 600x2x6 ATG, I believe. I find it easy to believe that he could squat 700.
    600x2 does not equate to 700. Trust me. I did 600x2 last wednesday, and 700 would crush me without a belt, suit, and wraps.
    6' 260lbs
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  13. #13
    Registered User De Haan's Avatar
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    Guys, thanks for the responses and keep em coming.

    FYI It's of public record here in Canada that he squatted, in his prime, 700 lbs.
    Of course he was on heavy juice. He could also bench around 350 even though he never worked hard at it.

    I dont know why he never competed in powerlifting, maybe cause there wasnt much $$$$ in it back in the 90's
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    Originally Posted by NewBlackDak
    WTF!!
    If you're pausing at the bottom of a normal squat you're doing something VERY wrong.

    Pause squats are a training technique not something you do at competitions.



    600x2 does not equate to 700. Trust me. I did 600x2 last wednesday, and 700 would crush me without a belt, suit, and wraps.
    No, I meant 600 for 2 sets of 6 reps.
    Last edited by Heisman2; 12-21-2005 at 10:42 AM.
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    I just edited the last post because the 650x3 is something I must have read by somebody else. Charlie Francis himself said that Ben Johnson squatted 600 pounds for 2 sets of 6 reps, all past parallel. He also said the Johnson likely could have gone much heavier, but there was no need to.
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    Registered User Radok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dynamin
    Guys, thanks for the responses and keep em coming.

    FYI It's of public record here in Canada that he squatted, in his prime, 700 lbs.
    Of course he was on heavy juice. He could also bench around 350 even though he never worked hard at it.

    I dont know why he never competed in powerlifting, maybe cause there wasnt much $$$$ in it back in the 90's
    Or maybe it was because he was the fastest man in the world. Why compete as a fairly good lifter when you can compete as the best in the world in the 100m?
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    Originally Posted by AangleN
    ok, then why doesn't he have the world record in that weight class? please tell me a credible source because i said no f-ing way.
    heres one reason:

    http://www.atlargenutrition.com/phil_900squat.php

    the other reason is that there is no way in hell he made depth with 700 lbs on his shoulders.


    i dont want to sound like an idiot, but i think i could have found it with a brief google search or on wikipedia, and i didn't find it on either--which makes it somewhat safe to assume that it didn't happen.

    from what ive heard top of the line oly sprinters CAN squat a lot of weight even having never trained (like 400-500 lbs max though, thats a lot for someone that never lifted before, but nowhere near 700 lbs)
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    Take a trip over to Charlie Francis' board and ask him. He'll tell you the truth. Some say it was 660 or whatever, bottom line, he was the fastest human on earth at the time he sprinted, and he had his title stripped from him due to testing positive for steriods. Does that mean he wasn't fast? Hell no. Does his strength mean he should have been a powerlifter? Hell no. He had all the right qualities to be a world class sprinter. Did he have a hell of a foundation of maximal strength. Damn right. Did he practice the hell out of sprinting. INDEED. It was a combination of methods and genetics that made Ben the fastest sprinter in the Olympics that year. I would definitely tell you to go ask Charlie on his board.

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    omg....u guys (most of u) really are clueless....

    do u have ANY IDEA the amount of strength it takes to squat 700lbs raw....i would be willing to be anything he never squatted 700lbs..... I train with people who squat about 850 raw and theyre 350lbs at 5'8 and ENORMOUS.

    it doesnt really matter though b/c u will believe what u want anyway.

    Eddie

    PS- and Tiki Barber squats 900lbs right??LOLOL
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    Originally Posted by Dynamin
    So if any regular person at 180 lbs squats 700 lbs then they should be equally as fast, shouldnt they???
    Apprantly this is not the case and I dont understand why.
    I've been told it has something to do with Fast Twitch Muscles.

    So my question is, how the heck do you train fast twitch muslces?????
    What do you mean "apperantly this is not the case" Do you know anyone else who full squats 700 raw at 180lbs and trains for the 100m? Didn't think so.

    The fast twitch muscles for sprinting are the same (roughly) for squats. That is why they include squats in their training. Fast twitch does not mean they have to move fast, but they can, or they can move heavy weight even if it is slowly.
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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    Originally Posted by jack_of_all
    heres one reason:

    http://www.atlargenutrition.com/phil_900squat.php

    the other reason is that there is no way in hell he made depth with 700 lbs on his shoulders.


    i dont want to sound like an idiot, but i think i could have found it with a brief google search or on wikipedia, and i didn't find it on either--which makes it somewhat safe to assume that it didn't happen.

    from what ive heard top of the line oly sprinters CAN squat a lot of weight even having never trained (like 400-500 lbs max though, thats a lot for someone that never lifted before, but nowhere near 700 lbs)
    But Ben did lift weights hard, thats my whole point.
    If you said he could squat 700 without ever having touched a weight, I'd say you're full of s*hiit

    For the people who say a 180 lbs guy cant squat that much let me tell you that its been well documented in the Toronto area that he used do reps with 600 lb weights.

    http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&as...G=Search&meta=

    So when I hear he could max 700 (raw), I believe them.

    BTW This thread is getting offtrack, I'm more interested in hearing about fast twitch muscles etc
    Last edited by Dynamin; 12-21-2005 at 12:44 PM.
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    Registered User Eddie Debus's Avatar
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    fast twitch fiber (Type 2a) fibers are trained by using explosive movements (i.e. DE work or powerlifting in general). The fast twitch fibers can't work as long as slow twitch (Type 1) but are much more inclined two grow larger and produce much more force than slow twitch fibers. Slow twitch fibers are for endurance. Type 2 fibers also are much more likely to be damaged when they exert force which is also why they grow larger and stronger.

    Eddie
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    Originally Posted by Eddie Debus
    omg....u guys (most of u) really are clueless....

    do u have ANY IDEA the amount of strength it takes to squat 700lbs raw....i would be willing to be anything he never squatted 700lbs..... I train with people who squat about 850 raw and theyre 350lbs at 5'8 and ENORMOUS.

    it doesnt really matter though b/c u will believe what u want anyway.

    Eddie

    PS- and Tiki Barber squats 900lbs right??LOLOL
    Bro, Ben Johnson squatted 600 pounds for 2 sets of 6 reps, all below parallel. Why don't you think he could squat 700?
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    and im sure u witnessed this with your own eyes.......

    oh btw i just squatted 700x5 i think i can hit 900.
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    Originally Posted by Eddie Debus
    omg....u guys (most of u) really are clueless....

    do u have ANY IDEA the amount of strength it takes to squat 700lbs raw....i would be willing to be anything he never squatted 700lbs..... I train with people who squat about 850 raw and theyre 350lbs at 5'8 and ENORMOUS.

    it doesnt really matter though b/c u will believe what u want anyway.

    Eddie

    PS- and Tiki Barber squats 900lbs right??LOLOL
    Not a rip on you Eddie, but who cares what he squatted? He was not a powerlifter, he was a sprinter. He trained to do what he had to do (run fast). For the record, I don't know if he did or did not squat the numbers quoted here, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a fantastic athlete. Because that is what it boils down to.

    -Andrew
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    b/c it pisses me off when people say Tiki barber squats 900 , Larry allen benches 700, Ben Johnson squats 700.

    its all ****in ridiculous....id expect it from normal people (b/c the general population doesnt have a friggin clue), but on a PL forum....GIVE ME A BREAK

    http://1.im.cz/n/photo/01/58/36cqhkf-topvyska.jpg

    ^^^ IF U LOOK AT HIM AND THINK HE SQUATS 700 UR RETARDED. HE WAS A SPRINTER NOT A STRENGTH ATHLETE.

    Eddie
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    Originally Posted by Eddie Debus
    omg....u guys (most of u) really are clueless....

    do u have ANY IDEA the amount of strength it takes to squat 700lbs raw....i would be willing to be anything he never squatted 700lbs..... I train with people who squat about 850 raw and theyre 350lbs at 5'8 and ENORMOUS.

    it doesnt really matter though b/c u will believe what u want anyway.
    And Eddie, it doesnt matter what we tell you cause it happens to be the truth
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    Originally Posted by Eddie Debus
    and im sure u witnessed this with your own eyes.......

    oh btw i just squatted 700x5 i think i can hit 900.
    My gym manager, lots of people here in Toronto and some news articles all reported he would do sets of 600 quite easily.
    I've heard reps of 12 with 600 lb, which would put him darn close to a 700 lbs squat.

    Its freaky but it happens to be true
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    WRONG!

    Just because you're super strong for your bodyweight will NOT make you olympic caliber for the 100m sprint.

    Not only does it take intense sprint training for years, but you must be able to convert your strength into power, have proper limb development, structure, tendon insertion, etc. Also, it takes precise technique to maximize speed.

    Mostly genetics in the field of speed....most guys can break into the upper 10s...but there will be a limit that most likely isnt olympic level.

    Heisman- I believe the 2x600x6 were half squats man....aka parallel. I'm pretty sure I read it in the CFTS.

    Ben Johnson also benched 407x2. The man is LEGIT.
    Last edited by UnlimitedSteel; 12-21-2005 at 01:43 PM.
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    Registered User Eddie Debus's Avatar
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    first of all its not a squat unless it breaks parallel

    and second .....this is ****in useless and not worth the aggravation.

    what else should i expect on BB.com

    Eddie
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