Exercises for inner pecs?

[X-Zit]

Well I've been able to get a small amount of growth on my pecs thanks to the advice you guys have given me so far.
However--my pecs are forming weird--and I need to gain more mass in the innerpecs.
i.e. I can tell my pecs are growing in the middle and the outside.

Maybe I'm not doing enough inner pec workouts?

Essentially what I would like to do is the close the gap between the two pecs, while gaining mass.



Any advice for working the inner pecs?


pz

[jocularric]

Time. Just keep lifting and give it time. You can't hit the outside or inside of your pecs separately. The muscle contracts as a whole across its length. You need to make your chest bigger as a whole.

[martydaman]

Yes, the pec muscle fibres run horizontally. cant really isolate the outer/inner parts.

[FarEastBeast]

We had this exact thread a week ago. Here was what I wrote in it. Hope it helps. BTW, all the other posts were the same as the ones above - they say you can't target the inner or outer part of the pecs.

Try this: mimic a chest press and hold the contraction. Did you feel it in your inner chest? Not really, right. Now try this: touch your elbows together in front of your chest and hold the contraction. Now can you feel it in your inner chest? Probably. There's your answer. Holding the peak contraction on any kind of fly will hit your inner chest more. Now try this: mimic a chest press with one hand in a wide grip position, the other hand on your sternum (fingers on the inner part of the pec your pressing with). With your arm as wide as it will go, press forward; can you feel the inner part of you pec contract? Most likely not really; now bring your hand way in as if doing a narrow grip bench press. Do the same thing. Can you feel the muscle now? Probably. Close grip bench presses will also hit your inner pecs to a greater degree.

These are exercises you could do anyway - pec dec flyes, AT cable flyes, what have you for chest; ngbp for triceps. if I'm wrong and you really can't target inner chest to any degree, then it won't hurt you to do them anyway. But the better approach is to use the mind-muscle link and target your lagging area with specific exercises and a postive, well thought out plan of attack.

[aiwass]

Add 100 lbs to your bench, 100 lbs to your weighted dips and 100 g of protein to your daily food intake. Call me primitive, but do this, and I reckon you'll have a considerably bigger, fuller chest.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Try this: mimic a chest press and hold the contraction. Did you feel it in your inner chest? Not really, right. Now try this: touch your elbows together in front of your chest and hold the contraction. Now can you feel it in your inner chest? Probably. There's your answer. Holding the peak contraction on any kind of fly will hit your inner chest more. Now try this: mimic a chest press with one hand in a wide grip position, the other hand on your sternum (fingers on the inner part of the pec your pressing with). With your arm as wide as it will go, press forward; can you feel the inner part of you pec contract? Most likely not really; now bring your hand way in as if doing a narrow grip bench press. Do the same thing. Can you feel the muscle now? Probably. Close grip bench presses will also hit your inner pecs to a greater degree.

These are exercises you could do anyway - pec dec flyes, AT cable flyes, what have you for chest; ngbp for triceps. if I'm wrong and you really can't target inner chest to any degree, then it won't hurt you to do them anyway. But the better approach is to use the mind-muscle link and target your lagging area with specific exercises and a postive, well thought out plan of attack.

FAREAST: your post was FAR OUT! LOL.....simply excellent! couldn't have worded this one any better than you did.....

[JOHN GARGANI]

damn, that was so good that I have to sub quote the last part again:

But the better approach is to use the mind-muscle link and target your lagging area with specific exercises and a postive, well thought out plan of attack.

truer words were never spoken on here!

[FarEastBeast]

Thank you John, that means a lot coming from you.

[X-Zit]

ya for sure.
Nice advice.
I'll defintly give close grip bench press a try out.
Could I do close grip bench press with dumbells btw? I'd imagine so.


pz

[W8isGR8]

I used to post in threads like this, explaining the concepts of compartmentalization, and non-uniform hypertrophy. Then I realized 99% of the people who ask these questions are 140lbs with a 39" chest. If you haven't been training for 5 years and have a >45" chest, then nothing is going to help besides overall mass.

[X-Zit]

Bumping.

Hey--tonight I did some mad dips.
I was actually quite surprized--it felt good to do dips.

Anyhow I know that dips is a great bulking excersize for the pecs and I'm going to incorperate it probally everyother day I hit up the gym.

Whats a good routine when doing dips?
i.e. how many sets/reps?


pz

[DiamondDelts]

Doesn't this thread title bring back memories.

[adidamps2]

We had this exact thread a week ago. Here was what I wrote in it. Hope it helps. BTW, all the other posts were the same as the ones above - they say you can't target the inner or outer part of the pecs.

Try this: mimic a chest press and hold the contraction. Did you feel it in your inner chest? Not really, right. Now try this: touch your elbows together in front of your chest and hold the contraction. Now can you feel it in your inner chest? Probably. There's your answer. Holding the peak contraction on any kind of fly will hit your inner chest more. Now try this: mimic a chest press with one hand in a wide grip position, the other hand on your sternum (fingers on the inner part of the pec your pressing with). With your arm as wide as it will go, press forward; can you feel the inner part of you pec contract? Most likely not really; now bring your hand way in as if doing a narrow grip bench press. Do the same thing. Can you feel the muscle now? Probably. Close grip bench presses will also hit your inner pecs to a greater degree.

These are exercises you could do anyway - pec dec flyes, AT cable flyes, what have you for chest; ngbp for triceps. if I'm wrong and you really can't target inner chest to any degree, then it won't hurt you to do them anyway. But the better approach is to use the mind-muscle link and target your lagging area with specific exercises and a postive, well thought out plan of attack.

touch my elbows together..hell yea you feel the "inner chest" you just compacted all you pec muscle between your arms pushing the bellies of both together.

CGBP targets inner chest??? since when thats all tri's/shoulders if done right

for the record as it was stated earlier in this thread there is no inner chest muscle...

get a larger bench press and your chest will grow....

[X-Zit]

Doesn't this thread title bring back memories.

??

[DiamondDelts]

??

This thread title was all the rage with the "old crew" here two years ago. And there have been over 30 same title threads since that always stir up heated debates around here.

[X-Zit]

lol

[FarEastBeast]

ya for sure.
Nice advice.
I'll defintly give close grip bench press a try out.
Could I do close grip bench press with dumbells btw? I'd imagine so.


pz

Yeah, the beauty of cgbp is that you do it as part of your triceps workout, but it's a good way to add extra work to your chest. (Sidenote to adidamps: can you really perform a cgbp without contracting your chest muscles?) A lot of people train chest and tri's together for this reason - exercises like cgbp or any bench press, dips, even pullovers work both muscle groups. But another strategy is to separate them in your split, thus it's like working both muscle groups twice a week without really destroying them.

As for dumbbells, you can do it by keeping your hands facing each other and your elbows in. Or you can use an EZ bar.

[aiwass]

Doesn't this thread title bring back memories.

It sure does. *Sniffle*

I was about to reply with: 'Do lots of flyes.'

[FarEastBeast]

I used to post in threads like this, explaining the concepts of compartmentalization, and non-uniform hypertrophy. Then I realized 99% of the people who ask these questions are 140lbs with a 39" chest. If you haven't been training for 5 years and have a >45" chest, then nothing is going to help besides overall mass.

I agree with you to a large degree here. However, I think it helps to get into good habits early, e.g. doing inclines instead of always flat benching like most new lifters do. Also, when someone comes to a message board with a question like this, they very well may be small and just need extra mass; but it's a long haul to get there, and the concern they voice is obviously a prominent one in their minds. By offering specific remedies, like ngbp for inner chest or whatever, I think you encourage short-term focus and sense of purpose and long-term commitment.

BTW, what are the concepts of compartmentalization and non-uniform hypertrophy?

[W8isGR8]

I agree with you to a large degree here. However, I think it helps to get into good habits early, e.g. doing inclines instead of always flat benching like most new lifters do. Also, when someone comes to a message board with a question like this, they very well may be small and just need extra mass; but it's a long haul to get there, and the concern they voice is obviously a prominent one in their minds. By offering specific remedies, like ngbp for inner chest or whatever, I think you encourage short-term focus and sense of purpose and long-term commitment.

BTW, what are the concepts of compartmentalization and non-uniform hypertrophy?

Non-uniform hypertrophy shows us that muscles hypertrophy more near the insertion point, and less as it nears the origin. So basically, lower biceps, upper lats, outer pecs, lower quads, etc........

Compartmentalization is the concept that muscle fibers are not continuous. Meaning, it's not just one fiber that runs from origin to insertion, but rather a "chain" of fibers, much like a train. These compartments contract in a ripple like motion, so the fibers near the insertion get hit the hardest, the most often. Which is why movements like preacher curls hit the lower biceps, where as concentration curls work higher on the muscle.

The key for inner chest is to stress the last 1/3 of a flye movement, or any chest exercise with a peak contraction(Pec-dec, Atrainer flys, cable-crossovers.)

[W8isGR8]

Antonio (1999) the worlds leading authority on Non-Uniform Hypertrophy provided numerous lines of evidence for non uniform hypertrophy and has summed what these evidences suggest as follows:

Skeletal muscle is a complex tissue that shows a prodigious capacity for growth. The notion that an individual muscle is just a compilation of muscle fibers that traverse from origin to insertion is simplistic and egregiously flawed. There are obvious differences between muscles with regard to size, architecture, and fiber composition. Moreover, within the same muscle, one can find regional differences in fiber size and fiber composition. Within a single fiber, one can find differences in MHC isoform expression and diameter.

Thus, it would make sense that the response of skeletal muscle to resistance training would be a nonuniform hypertrophy. In fact, the idea that a muscle would respond in a uniform fashion would seem implausible in light of the fact that there are distinct physiological/anatomical differences within a single muscle.

The existing studies (both acute and chronic training) show that within a given muscle, there is not a homogeneous response with regard to electrical activity (as measured by EMG), changes in muscle area, muscle fiber area, or even fiber number.

The purpose of this paper is to examine the concept of compartmentalization as it relates to intermuscular symetry.

Compartmentalization
Studies have confirmed the existence of neuromuscular compartments (Wilson, 2003, An Unmatched Analysis of the Elbow Joint). One compartment is a "portion" of a muscle which is supplied by a particular nerve branch. This compartment contains, in many cases, motor units with distinct functions. Further, the number of muscle fibers in a neuromuscular compartment varies. Van Zuylen et al.(1988) explains by stating that, "Most muscles are not activated homogeneously; instead the population of motor units of muscles can be subdivided into several subpopulations (79)." These scientists further state that:

"Inhomogeneous activation of the population of motor units in a muscle is a general finding and is not restricted to some multifunctional muscles (79)." The term inhomogeneous refers to differing activation. That is, all muscle fibers are not recruited for one task in a single muscle; rather, differing tasks can call a specific portion of a muscle into play. Van Zuylen et al.(1988) confirms the complexity of the issue by stating: "On the other hand, motor units in muscles are not necessarily activated if their mechanical action contributes to a prescribed torque. For example, there are motor units in the medlial biceps that are activated during flexion torques, but not during supination torques." What was explained is extremely vital to this article and your training. It was noted that certain parts of the muscle were activated during flexion, but not during supination. This is the concept of compartmentalization and there is much experimental evidence for it.

Chaunad, Pratt and Loeb (1989) investigated a cat's biceps femoris musculature and found that, "The BF muscle consists of three neuromuscular compartments: anterior (BFa), middle (BFm) and posterior (BFp). Each compartment is innervated by a separate nerve branch.” It was found that each compartment had distinct neuromuscular functions. English and Letbetter(1982) studied the gastrocnemius (the large posterior calf muscle) and found that, "The lateral gastrocnemius is more complex and contains three distinctly identifiable heads, each of which is a unipennate band of fibers coursing between a proximally attached aponeurosis of origin and a distal aponeurosis of insertion"

In the Journal of Physical Therapy, English et al. summarizes the "partitioning hypothesis" as follows:

1. " The partitioning hypothesis is based on the fact that an individual muscle is arranged in a more complex array than simply fibers attaching at aponeuroses, tendons, or bones with a single muscle nerve innervation."

2. They state that neuromuscular compartments "are distinct subvolumes of a muscle, each innervated by an individual muscle nerve branch and each containing motor unit territories with a unique array of physiological attributes."

3. Finally, they assert what many other Scientists have confirmed: "These data are complemented by physiological studies, the results from which suggest that partitions may have functional or task-oriented roles; that is, different portions of one muscle may be called into play depending on the task demands of the situation."

A great deal of evidence supports the above discussion. As one example, one of the most manipulated muscles in the body is the biceps brachii. Bodybuilders utilize numerous angles while training it. In support of such protocols Segal (1992) wanted to see if the clear Electrophysiological evidence that the human biceps brachii muscle is organized into functional neuromuscular compartments had an anatomical basis( electrophysiological in that, clear electrical studies have supported that the biceps do not act in a homogenious manner, but rather task specific). Here is a summary of their findings:

"The purpose of this study was to determine whether there was an anatomical basis for these compartments. Dissection of the biceps revealed both architectural and nerve branching pattern compartmentalization within the muscle. Although the biceps brachii is grossly subdivided into long and short heads, these heads are further subdivided into roughly parallel architectural compartments. Moreover, these architectural compartments usually receive a private nerve branch, thus supporting the notion that the human biceps brachii has neuromuscular compartments."

Thus, there is not only functional evidence, but now anatomical evidence for neuromuscular compartmentalization in the biceps. However, there is much more supporting evidence for the above. Brown (1993) conducted a study which was rightfully named, "Further evidence of functional differentiation within biceps brachii" They studied whether supination during various phases of flexion could activate different portions of the muscle. It was found that when the elbow joint was fully extended (or actually when extended below 90 degrees), that the long head of the biceps was more activated than the short head during supination movements, and the short head was more activated when the elbow was flexed past 120 degrees of flexion than the long head.

Romeny, van der Gon, and Gielen (1988) discovered something truly astonishing. These scientists studied the long head of the biceps. In doing so, it was revealed that motor units in the lateral aspect of the muscle were specialized for flexion of the elbow joint, motor units located medially were activated for supination of the forearm, and motor units located in the center of the head were specialized for both movements superimposed on one another.

[jocularric]

Interesting article W8isGR8. Thanks for posting it. Do you have the reference?

[W8isGR8]

Interesting article W8isGR8. Thanks for posting it. Do you have the reference?

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magaz...ebuilding2.htm


If you type "muscle fiber compartmentalization" into yahoo you'll get a lot more too

[FarEastBeast]

The key for inner chest is to stress the last 1/3 of a flye movement, or any chest exercise with a peak contraction(Pec-dec, Atrainer flys, cable-crossovers.)

W8, thanks man, that is awesome stuff. I've quoted the part most relative to this thread and want to add something to it because all the studies and science aside, this is stuff that bodybuilders have learned through trial and error over the course of the history of the sport. This is from Arnold's "look back" photo spread in the September 2003 Flex:

"Danny [Padilla] trained smart. One time I was watching him do cable flyes and I asked him, "Why do you not go all the way out [to the arms outstretched position], but only do a three-quarter movement?" He replied, "Because I'm aiming for the inner pecs; the three-quarter movement makes the stress on them more concentrated and intense . . .. Try it and find out." So I tried it, and the next day I was sore. I told Danny, "My chest keeps cramping and I NEVER get that the day after a workout."

Now, I'm not (and certainly Arnold never has) advocating three-quarter movements for new trainers. Work the muscle through a full range of motion and develop overall mass. But common sense, backed up by expert testimony and science (thanks again W8) shows that the last 1/3 or 1/4 or whatever, is where the action is for inner pecs.

[JOHN GARGANI]

BEAST: whenever I have a training partner do flyes, I make it mandatory to stop the motion at the 3/4 mark, in fact, what I do, as a "spotter", is stand over the lifter and outstretch my arms and then use them as a stopping point for him, so that he cannot make the dumbbells touch, instead of just lazily allowing full extensions and collapse of the time under tension stress, he is instead tensing AGAINST my arms/hands which are preventing him from letting up the tension of the movement....

it has been likened to doing a bear hug, where the "bear" is bigger than your arms can reach around...

[FarEastBeast]

BEAST: whenever I have a training partner do flyes, I make it mandatory to stop the motion at the 3/4 mark, in fact, what I do, as a "spotter", is stand over the lifter and outstretch my arms and then use them as a stopping point for him, so that he cannot make the dumbbells touch, instead of just lazily allowing full extensions and collapse of the time under tension stress, he is instead tensing AGAINST my arms/hands which are preventing him from letting up the tension of the movement....

it has been likened to doing a bear hug, where the "bear" is bigger than your arms can reach around...

I've heard the bear hug analogy as well, that may be an Arnoldism, not sure, anyway, it's a good one. I like the sounds of your method. Me, I train alone, so it's all the more important for me to focus. BTW, anyone who hasn't seen it, check out The Fit Show here on bb.com. There's a link to it in the thread in this section on flyes. Good stuff on inner chest there.

[JOHN GARGANI]

training alone is fine, but your really best efforts will come with a good training partner....

When and if the day comes that I really learn how to get video on here, I would love to post a link to a video showing the method I was trying to describe to keep that person's tension throughout the movement on flys.....