Seriously guys, this cardio nonsense has to end!

[W8isGR8]

The same guy who made up the bull**** about cardio on an empty stomach burning more fat, or cardio after weights, is the same shmuck that said low reps for mass, high reps for toning.

The retarded logic is that if you do cardio while your muscles are dprived of glycogen, your body will be forced to burn fat.


Bull****!

That's like saying if you drive your car with the gas tank empty, it will be "forced" to use air as fuel. No, it won't. It just won't go.

There are three types of fuel, fat, glycogen, and atp/cp. What you use for fuel depends solely on one factor. Exercise type/intensity. That's it.

If you do sprints, you will use ATP/CP, and muscle glycogen. If you don't have any of this left, guess what........you can't sprint, you're body can't do it. You won't start burning fat, you'll just fall flat on your stupid face.

On the other hand, don't expect to blow up those type IIB muscle fibers walking your lazy ass around the mall Christmas shopping. It ain't gonna happen!

If I stop breathing oxygen, it won't "force" my body to use CO2, I'll just die.
If my heart stops beating, it won't "force" my liver to pump the blood.

The human body has certian parts that do certian jobs, you can't change that. Period.

I hate you all.

[zfan88]

food+time+weights= growth

food+time+weights+cardio=fat loss and still growth




In memory of AJ

[mike_d]

Whats more important is that people burning fat actually DO cardio. Theres so much goddamn debate over this tons of people just say "fukk it" and dont do anything. Just do cardio. If you can do it on an empty stomach - fine! If you can do it after you eat - fine!

Seriously, what beginner/intermediate is going to understand ANY of this anyways?

[RU4A69]

Screw cardio-just do Oly lifts and a bit of sprint training.

And yeah-cardio on an empty stomach shouldn't even be legal. The scary thing is that kids are doing it now. I blame the parents.

[W8isGR8]

Whats more important is that people burning fat actually DO cardio. Theres so much goddamn debate over this tons of people just say "fukk it" and dont do anything. Just do cardio. If you can do it on an empty stomach - fine! If you can do it after you eat - fine!

Seriously, what beginner/intermediate is going to understand ANY of this anyways?

Exactly! People are always saying "We'll when I started doing cardio I did it first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach and I lost weight"

No ****! It's because you started doing cardio

Anyone who goes from doing nothing to doing cardio will lose weight, even if they're walking backwards on a treadmill, blindfolded, with one arm over their head.

[RU4A69]

Exactly! People are always saying "We'll when I started doing cardio I did it first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach and I lost weight"

No ****! It's because you started doing cardio

Anyone who goes from doing nothing to doing cardio will lose weight, even if they're walking backwards on a treadmill, blindfolded, with one arm over their head.

been reading AJ's posts?

[W8isGR8]

By their same f*cked up logic, if I did a bunch of sprints and cardio before I lifted my muscles would be "forced" to burn fat as fuel. No, it wouldn't. I'd just lift like a 12 year old girl because I had no energy left

[The Real Deal]

oh w8, ur so funny

[Chuckdiesel99]

I agree. Cardio on an empty stomach is not a good idea. When I first started working out seriously I followed a book that called for fasted cardio in the morning. Im not sure if he said to life weights fasted or not but I did. Man o man what a huge mistake. I would like to have my 12 weeks back please. Maybe I wouldnt have lost so much muscle mass.

Everything else about the book was good except for the fasted crap.

[Wolf(e)]

The same guy who made up the bull**** about cardio on an empty stomach burning more fat, or cardio after weights, is the same shmuck that said low reps for mass, high reps for toning.

The retarded logic is that if you do cardio while your muscles are dprived of glycogen, your body will be forced to burn fat.


Bull****!

That's like saying if you drive your car with the gas tank empty, it will be "forced" to use air as fuel. No, it won't. It just won't go.

There are three types of fuel, fat, glycogen, and atp/cp. What you use for fuel depends solely on one factor. Exercise type/intensity. That's it.

If you do sprints, you will use ATP/CP, and muscle glycogen. If you don't have any of this left, guess what........you can't sprint, you're body can't do it. You won't start burning fat, you'll just fall flat on your stupid face.

On the other hand, don't expect to blow up those type IIB muscle fibers walking your lazy ass around the mall Christmas shopping. It ain't gonna happen!

If I stop breathing oxygen, it won't "force" my body to use CO2, I'll just die.
If my heart stops beating, it won't "force" my liver to pump the blood.

The human body has certian parts that do certian jobs, you can't change that. Period.

I hate you all.

What?! What are you talking about?! The ONLY time to do cardio is on an empty stomach, after you lift. In fact, if you lift on a full stomach, you're an idiot. I've been doing this for years and I bench 350 pounds, with 4%BF.






































....No I'm kidding.

Ok, seriously though, I don't disagree with you, but when is it that you suggest people to do cardio? On seperate days from lifting after eating?

[W8isGR8]

What?! What are you talking about?! The ONLY time to do cardio is on an empty stomach, after you lift. In fact, if you lift on a full stomach, you're an idiot. I've been doing this for years and I bench 350 pounds, with 4%BF.

....No I'm kidding.

Ok, seriously though, I don't disagree with you, but when is it that you suggest people to do cardio? On seperate days from lifting after eating?

It doesn't f*cking matter when you do it, just f*cking do it.

It's almost as bad as the "when to lift" debate. "But if I lift in the morning, my test levels are .000034483% higher than in the evening"

[coloBB]

Law of Thermodynamics:
if energy in is greater than energy out= Weight gain
if energy out is greater than energy in= weight loss
if energy in is equal to energy out= weight stays the same

so in other words do your cardio anytime of the day you want. Of course cardio in a fasted state isn't optimal if you want to keep your muscle gains.

[Watch Me!]

The same guy who made up the bull**** about cardio on an empty stomach burning more fat, or cardio after weights, is the same shmuck that said low reps for mass, high reps for toning.

The retarded logic is that if you do cardio while your muscles are dprived of glycogen, your body will be forced to burn fat.


Bull****!

That's like saying if you drive your car with the gas tank empty, it will be "forced" to use air as fuel. No, it won't. It just won't go.

There are three types of fuel, fat, glycogen, and atp/cp. What you use for fuel depends solely on one factor. Exercise type/intensity. That's it.

If you do sprints, you will use ATP/CP, and muscle glycogen. If you don't have any of this left, guess what........you can't sprint, you're body can't do it. You won't start burning fat, you'll just fall flat on your stupid face.

On the other hand, don't expect to blow up those type IIB muscle fibers walking your lazy ass around the mall Christmas shopping. It ain't gonna happen!

If I stop breathing oxygen, it won't "force" my body to use CO2, I'll just die.
If my heart stops beating, it won't "force" my liver to pump the blood.

The human body has certian parts that do certian jobs, you can't change that. Period.

I hate you all.

I thought you had recently become 10% less bitchy? I'd hate too see the 100%!

[BodySculpting]

The same guy who made up the bull**** about cardio on an empty stomach burning more fat, or cardio after weights, is the same shmuck that said low reps for mass, high reps for toning.

I hate to break it to you W8, but doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach DOES BURN MORE FAT. Your body is depleted of your short term reservoir overnight and switches to the long term reservoir for energy which stores the fat. By this point glycogen has been coverted back to glucose, and IT IS deprived of glycogen forcing your body to go to the long term reservoir and use the fat stored in there. THIS IS TRUE. The problem is that you MAY also be sacrificing lean muscle if you do this often.

[Wolf(e)]

It doesn't f*cking matter when you do it, just f*cking do it.

It's almost as bad as the "when to lift" debate. "But if I lift in the morning, my test levels are .000034483% higher than in the evening"

No, I wasn't asking what time of the day to do it, I was asking whether you think it's unwise to do cardio on the same days you lift, or right before you're going to lift, or right after you're done lifting, etc.

[W8isGR8]

Law of Thermodynamics:
if energy in is greater than energy out= Weight gain
if energy out is greater than energy in= weight loss
if energy in is equal to energy out= weight stays the same

so in other words do your cardio anytime of the day you want. Of course cardio in a fasted state isn't optimal if you want to keep your muscle gains.

And even that isn't true, in reality.

It should be
Fat burned>fat stored=fat loss

Think of your body like a bucket, that bucket is full of water(fat). There's a drain at the bottom(cardio). Everytime you eat, you add a little water to the bucket, how much water depends on what you eat. Everytime you do cardio you open that drain. How much water drains out depends on how long it's open(duration), and how far it's open(intensity). As long as you're draining more than you're filling, you'll lose fat.

[BodySculpting]

I agree. Cardio on an empty stomach is not a good idea. When I first started working out seriously I followed a book that called for fasted cardio in the morning. Im not sure if he said to life weights fasted or not but I did. Man o man what a huge mistake. I would like to have my 12 weeks back please. Maybe I wouldnt have lost so much muscle mass.

Everything else about the book was good except for the fasted crap.

lol, was this Hugo Rivera's "The Bodysculpting Bible" ? the guy gave some great advice, but some of it was total bull for the serious bodybuilder.

[Hola Bola]

It doesn't f*cking matter when you do it, just f*cking do it.

It's almost as bad as the "when to lift" debate. "But if I lift in the morning, my test levels are .000034483% higher than in the evening"

Hahahaha... or you could just NOT do cardio at all.

That .000034483% could make a big difference... like if your max squat was 1,000lbs... that would add 1/3 of a pound!!!

[W8isGR8]

No, I wasn't asking what time of the day to do it, I was asking whether you think it's unwise to do cardio on the same days you lift, or right before you're going to lift, or right after you're done lifting, etc.

If you do it before you lift, you won't have the same energy for lifting. If you do it after you lift, you might not feel like doing cardio. If you do it on a seperate day, you could affect recovery. There's an arguement for all of it. Just do it whenever you have the most motivation.

[AnaerobicAndrew]

The same guy who made up the bull**** about cardio on an empty stomach burning more fat, or cardio after weights, is the same shmuck that said low reps for mass, high reps for toning.

The retarded logic is that if you do cardio while your muscles are dprived of glycogen, your body will be forced to burn fat.


Bull****!

That's like saying if you drive your car with the gas tank empty, it will be "forced" to use air as fuel. No, it won't. It just won't go.

There are three types of fuel, fat, glycogen, and atp/cp. What you use for fuel depends solely on one factor. Exercise type/intensity. That's it.

If you do sprints, you will use ATP/CP, and muscle glycogen. If you don't have any of this left, guess what........you can't sprint, you're body can't do it. You won't start burning fat, you'll just fall flat on your stupid face.

On the other hand, don't expect to blow up those type IIB muscle fibers walking your lazy ass around the mall Christmas shopping. It ain't gonna happen!

If I stop breathing oxygen, it won't "force" my body to use CO2, I'll just die.
If my heart stops beating, it won't "force" my liver to pump the blood.

The human body has certian parts that do certian jobs, you can't change that. Period.

I hate you all.

Thank you for finally puting into words what we've all known for so long. Ive been having this debate with people for years, and nobody ever seems to win the battle on whether or not cardio on an empty stomach is good or bad.

[W8isGR8]

I hate to break it to you W8, but doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach DOES BURN MORE FAT. Your body is depleted of your short term reservoir overnight and switches to the long term reservoir for energy which stores the fat. By this point glycogen has been coverted back to glucose, and IT IS deprived of glycogen forcing your body to go to the long term reservoir and use the fat stored in there. THIS IS TRUE. The problem is that you MAY also be sacrificing lean muscle if you do this often.

No it doesn't. There's intramuscular stored glycogen, and hepatic(liver) glycogen. These are the sources. It takes over 3-4 hours of moderate intensity exercise to deplete liver glycogen. 8 hours of sleep does not drain your body of fuel(regardless of what Muscle & Fitness says. If you do run out of liver glycogen then your liver wil turn amino acids into glycogen, through gluconeogenesis. Burning muscle. Fat is already the primary(80%) fuel during activities less than 25% of VO2 max.

[coloBB]

And even that isn't true, in reality.

It should be
Fat burned>fat stored=fat loss

Think of your body like a bucket, that bucket is full of water(fat). There's a drain at the bottom(cardio). Everytime you eat, you add a little water to the bucket, how much water depends on what you eat. Everytime you do cardio you open that drain. How much water drains out depends on how long it's open(duration), and how far it's open(intensity). As long as you're draining more than you're filling, you'll lose fat.

^^^
NO. Don't compare fat loss to a "bucket" its not that simple. And the LAW of thermodynamics is true. Thats why its a LAW because its been proven. If you are "draining more than you are filling" yes you will lose weight. But by that logic if you are only eating 200 cals a day and you burn 3,000 cals a day, you are going to look like a freakin lindsey lohan. There are so many factors you have to consider with fat loss, there are so many variables to take into account, and by just saying its like a "bucket" is somewhat ignorant. And don't get so frustrated because you disagree with someone elses views. RELAX

[BodySculpting]

I hate to break it to you W8, but doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach DOES BURN MORE FAT. Your body is depleted of your short term reservoir overnight and switches to the long term reservoir for energy which stores the fat. By this point glycogen has been coverted back to glucose, and IT IS deprived of glycogen forcing your body to go to the long term reservoir and use the fat stored in there. THIS IS TRUE. The problem is that you MAY also be sacrificing lean muscle if you do this often.

did everyone just ignore this? ITS NOT BAD, but it can be DETRIMENTAL to muscle gains.

[One More Time]

I thought you had recently become 10% less bitchy? I'd hate too see the 100%!

LOL!

On a side note... I don't have to worry about doing cardio in the morning on a empty stomach. Reason.... I can't even get my lazy ass up to get to work on time much less do cardio LOL!

[W8isGR8]

Thank you for finally puting into words what we've all known for so long. Ive been having this debate with people for years, and nobody ever seems to win the battle on whether or not cardio on an empty stomach is good or bad.

People somehow think that food in your stomach gets piped straight into the muscle to be used. The fact is it has to be digested(which can take 2-8 hours), proscessed, and stored before it can be used. So that breakfast you had won't really be usable until lunch time. ****, I could do cardio while eating, it doesn't really matter. The only possible reason for not doing it on a full stomach is that the body can't really digest food and do other things. Blood gets shunted around to supply other systems and your food just sits there anyway, not being digested, not being used for fuel!

[KrushR]

No it doesn't. There's intramuscular stored glycogen, and hepatic(liver) glycogen. These are the sources. It takes over 3-4 hours of moderate intensity exercise to deplete liver glycogen. 8 hours of sleep does not drain your body of fuel(regardless of what Muscle & Fitness says. If you do run out of liver glycogen then your liver wil turn amino acids into glycogen, through gluconeogenesis. Burning muscle. Fat is already the primary(80%) fuel during activities less than 25% of VO2 max.

with that said (and you've said it numerous times in different threads, although few believe you), would you see a problem with me doing 30 minutes of medium-high intensity cardio directly after lifting for 1.5 hrs? I would have had a standard pre-workout shake 30 minutes before lifting (protein, water, oats) and would have another 50g of protein directly after the cardio.

It's what I'm doing now based this same information, I just want another opinion.

[KrushR]

did everyone just ignore this? ITS NOT BAD, but it can be DETRIMENTAL to muscle gains.

so...you're saying detrimental isn't bad? Sounds like you're splitting hairs here. I ignored the post based solely on that sentence.

[W8isGR8]

^^^
NO. Don't compare fat loss to a "bucket" its not that simple. And the LAW of thermodynamics is true. Thats why its a LAW because its been proven. If you are "draining more than you are filling" yes you will lose weight. But by that logic if you are only eating 200 cals a day and you burn 3,000 cals a day, you are going to look like a freakin lindsey lohan. There are so many factors you have to consider with fat loss, there are so many variables to take into account, and by just saying its like a "bucket" is somewhat ignorant. And don't get so frustrated because you disagree with someone elses views. RELAX

I was trying to provide a simple view. The law of thermo dynamics is simple too, but like you said there are many other factors. Like metabolism. What about teenagers who eat fast food 3 times a day and don't gain weight. Or the fat lady who eats 1/2 an apple and a tic/tac each day yet can't lose a pound. It's way more complex than calories in, colories out. You won't look the same if you ate 3,000 calories from fat, as oppossed to 3,000 calories from protein.

[W8isGR8]

with that said (and you've said it numerous times in different threads, although few believe you), would you see a problem with me doing 30 minutes of medium-high intensity cardio directly after lifting for 1.5 hrs? I would have had a standard pre-workout shake 30 minutes before lifting (protein, water, oats) and would have another 50g of protein directly after the cardio.

It's what I'm doing now based this same information, I just want another opinion.

No, there's no problem. I would suggest adding carbs to your post-workout shake, as the chances of anything getting stored as fat is minimal.

[KrushR]

No, there's no problem. I would suggest adding carbs to your post-workout shake, as the chances of anything getting stored as fat is minimal.

cool. can do. case closed. thread closed. thread stickied. all other threads about fasted state and post-workout cardio bah-leeted.