Why Olympic lifters/powerlifters can beat world class sprinters in the 20 yards

[farzamk]

A olympic lifter could be capable of squatting 3 times his body weight full olympic style. Some sprinters can squat 2x their body weight to parallel, or under around 2.5x.

So example here, a 200 pound lifter squats 600 pounds ATG, the sprinter such as Tyson Gay (168 pounds) (2007 world 100m/200m champion) can squat 2.5x his body weight to parallel. First off we know that ATG and parallel are light years apart. As is a 200+ pound guy squatting 3x his body weight that deep.

Now the 20 yards is composed of purely acceleration. The stronger you are, the more force you put into the ground and the better you accelerate and more efficient you are over a sprint right? Not exactly.

We need to remember that it is ALL about how much power you can put into the ground in COMPARISON to your body weight. Therefore plainly the reason O lifters are capable of beating some world class sprinters whether the sub 10 second ones, or the 10.1 guys, is due to strength to mass ratio.

It's simple logically if you think about it, a big guy has more weight to carry around, therefore unless he is way stronger than his BW, no way he can be successful at any sprint. So take a powerlifter for example who weighs 300 pounds and squats 800, 2.66x his body weight. Now take a 130 pound guy squatting 400, more than 3x his body weight, will easily beat the powerlifter in any short sprint because he moves his own body weight move efficiently. It's all about accelerating your body mass, and a greater strength : mass = better acceleration.

Now keep in mind once the 20-30 yards is done, max velocity comes into play and so does stride frequency and other factors, therefore the "fast guy" will always beat the heavy guy even if the heavy guy squats 5000 pounds.

[CLiTMASTA]

nice, farz say someone can squat 4x his bodyweight (say he weighs 190), and some one who weighs 200 squats 3x his bodyweight, how much would the acceleration differ from these to.

[farzamk]

nice, farz say someone can squat 4x his bodyweight (say he weighs 190), and some one who weighs 200 squats 3x his bodyweight, how much would the acceleration differ from these to.

the 190 guy would.

Do remember this is based on athletes who have done all aspects of training, no beginners or guys who are high school aged and fast.

This being said, I believe a guy like Ben Johnson or Asafa Powell wouldnt lose to any strong guy even if he squats 10x his body weight, some sprinters have far too good acceleration. That itself is another article.

[watchandsee23]

Where did you find this article at?

[burningNun]

It doesn't make sense. What if the little strong guy squats really slowly, thus training his muscles to contract slowly? Sprinting surely has more to do with power than strength.

[farzamk]

It doesn't make sense. What if the little strong guy squats really slowly, thus training his muscles to contract slowly? Sprinting surely has more to do with power than strength.

You clearly have not learned the first thing about lifting, any type of heavy lifting is fast twitch. In other words, you're 100% wrong on this.

You can do your squats as fast as you want, it makes ZERO difference, under heavy resistance it's fast twitch B fibers contracting. By squatting slowly, you are increasing strength and this allows greater force application while in the drive phase as well as greater force application overall.

In fact if you are squatting really fast, you are using too light weight and wont develop the necessary strength, or you'd be using really light weight for jump squats. But where is the strength base and how is it going to develop if you dont do any max strength training?

Power is also greatly based on mass and strength, however as I said, it is all about strength to mass ratio, you are moving your own body weight, therefore how much force you apply to the ground is important but if you're too heavy and not strong enough for your body weight, you wont be moving your mass quick enough.

[killermony]

i think some people are missing the point. he is not saying that a guy with the higher weight to strength ratio will always win in a 20y sprint. there a lot of other variables that come into affect. but if everything else is close usually the guy with a stronger weight to strength ratio will win. a guy that can squat 10x his weight but does not know how to sprint will not beat a guy who only squats 2x his weight but has been trained to sprint.

[KiloNewton]

You can't really compare powerlifters squats to the squats a sprinter would do, because the sprinter won't be wearing a supersuit.

[farzamk]

i think some people are missing the point. he is not saying that a guy with the higher weight to strength ratio will always win in a 20y sprint. there a lot of other variables that come into affect. but if everything else is close usually the guy with a stronger weight to strength ratio will win. a guy that can squat 10x his weight but does not know how to sprint will not beat a guy who only squats 2x his weight but has been trained to sprint.

yes 100% correct.

[farzamk]

You can't really compare powerlifters squats to the squats a sprinter would do, because the sprinter won't be wearing a supersuit.

We arent comparing squats, we're comparing strength to mass ratio. Squats are just a example exercise.

[farzamk]

Where did you find this article at?

It's self written.

[itsmike428]

Well written article, too bad there will still be kids who can who will so go around saying a olympic lifter can be an olympic sprinter.

I forgot, who it was but challenged an olympic lifter to a I think 60 m sprint or so, he got burned from the start. Would of lost even if it was a 20 m sprint.

What people don't understand is that olympic sprinters are just gifted with speed, acceleration speed. Also olympic sprinters will beat the olympic lifter from the start because of the sheer fact that they spend so much time working on their starts.


But theoretically yeah the olympic lifter has a faster 20 yard sprint, nicely written.

[farzamk]

Well written article, too bad there will still be kids who can who will so go around saying a olympic lifter can be an olympic sprinter.

I forgot, who it was but challenged an olympic lifter to a I think 60 m sprint or so, he got burned from the start. Would of lost even if it was a 20 m sprint.

What people don't understand is that olympic sprinters are just gifted with speed, acceleration speed. Also olympic sprinters will beat the olympic lifter from the start because of the sheer fact that they spend so much time working on their starts.


But theoretically yeah the olympic lifter has a faster 20 yard sprint, nicely written.

well said.

[KiloNewton]

We arent comparing squats, we're comparing strength to mass ratio. Squats are just a example exercise.

I understand but you wrote this:

So take a powerlifter for example who weighs 300 pounds and squats 800, 2.66x his body weight. Now take a 130 pound guy squatting 400, more than 3x his body weight, will easily beat the powerlifter in any short sprint because he moves his own body weight move efficiently. It's all about accelerating your body mass, and a greater strength : mass = better acceleration.

I'm pointing out that if you take away his supersuit the super-heavyweight powerlifter will have an even worse strength to body weight ratio.

Also olympic sprinters will beat the olympic lifter from the start because of the sheer fact that they spend so much time working on their starts.

This was no the case at the Mexico City Olympic Games when weight lifters and sprinters were put against one another in a 25m sprint. On average the weightlifters were fastest.

[thefight]

You clearly have not learned the first thing about lifting, any type of heavy lifting is fast twitch. In other words, you're 100% wrong on this.

You can do your squats as fast as you want, it makes ZERO difference, under heavy resistance it's fast twitch B fibers contracting. By squatting slowly, you are increasing strength and this allows greater force application while in the drive phase as well as greater force application overall.

In fact if you are squatting really fast, you are using too light weight and wont develop the necessary strength, or you'd be using really light weight for jump squats. But where is the strength base and how is it going to develop if you dont do any max strength training?

Power is also greatly based on mass and strength, however as I said, it is all about strength to mass ratio, you are moving your own body weight, therefore how much force you apply to the ground is important but if you're too heavy and not strong enough for your body weight, you wont be moving your mass quick enough.

I think Mel Siff puts it nicely in Supertraining: "Exercise with small loads (with approximately 20% of 1RM) is the principal method of developing speed-strength." (p. 263)

Also lifting maximimum and near maximum weights are much similar to isometric strength then quick concentric strength. In addition to this, the neural connections gained through practicing sprinting help sprinters because they gain strength specific to their sport. The plyometrics used in sprinting is also at a different angle then the plyometrics in olympic or power lifting. The ability to relax the opposing muscles at the right times is very important in sprinting and this ability would be no where near as good in someone who does not train for sprinting. The timing of applying force when the feet hit the ground would be ever so slightly off as well. In general the more specific the training movement is to the actual movement, the better the neural pathway will be. While it is important for a sprinter to be strong, strength is not the only determining factor in speed, especially in elite athletes.

[farzamk]

I understand but you wrote this:



I'm pointing out that if you take away his supersuit the super-heavyweight powerlifter will have an even worse strength to body weight ratio.



This was no the case at the Mexico City Olympic Games when weight lifters and sprinters were put against one another in a 25m sprint. On average the weightlifters were fastest.

You need to look at modern sprinters and modern lifters, as modern sprinters do a lot more reaction work, block work and strength/power training as compared to 40 years ago.

Also guys like Ben Johnson and Asafa Powell can beat any lifter there is, however if we put a lanky slow starter like Tyson Gay, he will be easily beat.

Squats are a example lift, powerlifter or olympic lifter deep squatting or whatever, it's all a example, dont look into specifications.

[farzamk]

I think Mel Siff puts it nicely in Supertraining: "Exercise with small loads (with approximately 20% of 1RM) is the principal method of developing speed-strength." (p. 263)

Also lifting maximimum and near maximum weights are much similar to isometric strength then quick concentric strength. In addition to this, the neural connections gained through practicing sprinting help sprinters because they gain strength specific to their sport. The plyometrics used in sprinting is also at a different angle then the plyometrics in olympic or power lifting. The ability to relax the opposing muscles at the right times is very important in sprinting and this ability would be no where near as good in someone who does not train for sprinting. The timing of applying force when the feet hit the ground would be ever so slightly off as well. In general the more specific the training movement is to the actual movement, the better the neural pathway will be. While it is important for a sprinter to be strong, strength is not the only determining factor in speed, especially in elite athletes.

You're right, however you need to know that I was referring mainly to acceleration. A elite sprinter will have such a great top speed and takes anywhere from 50-70m on average for them to reach it. Provided they have a lower strength to mass ratio than a olympic lifter, they wont accelerate quicker than a lifter who has a better strength to mass ratio.

[arnoldspump]

isnt power:mass more important than strength:mass for explosiveness? such as sprint acceleration? im trying to improve my acceleration in 0-10 yards but im confused how i should go about it...

[DCSpartan]

isnt power:mass more important than strength:mass for explosiveness? such as sprint acceleration? im trying to improve my acceleration in 0-10 yards but im confused how i should go about it...

dont respond to 8 year old threads for starters.