New and seeking help

[drroosterhammer]

There's a lot of information available but so many different opinions. It's really overwhelming to a newbie. I'd really like help narrowing a few things down to best assist my Wife and I.

We are a young couple on opposite spectrums of the gym scale. I'm a 5'9" 135lb 24 year old male with a high metabolism trying to gain weight, increase strength and stamina. She's a 5'4" 230lb 21 year old female trying to lose weight. We have two children, both 3. We have a gym membership already with lots of equipment and classes, even a daycare.

What products would you recommend we use? I feel like I need to double, even triple, my calorie intake while she has to restrict hers. What type of workouts should we focus on more than others?

Advice, personal experience or just fingers pointed in the right direction would be a great help. Thank you.

[ChrisSWE]

Back in the days i tried it all. The one thing i regret about it , is how much money that was wasted if i only knew how simple it is. You only need Whey protein, multi and mineral supplement, omega 3s. And maybe a bcaa/preworkout 2-1 supplement

[Misctake7]

Products - well none yet. You don't have your diet or training figured out. So you won't need to even think about supplements for a couple months.


Both males and females can benefit from both weight lifting and cardio. However your goal is to gain muscle and weight, you should focus on weight lifting more-so than cardio because then you will need to eat more to make up the calories burned. Your wife will want to incorporate both forms, lifting and some cardio and while being in a calorie deficit. You can get more information about getting a diet and tracking calories going if you head to the Nutrition section and read the stickies.

Building muscle = calorie surplus
Losing fat/weight = calorie deficit

[ChrisSWE]

Products - well none yet. You don't have your diet or training figured out. So you won't need to even think about supplements for a couple months.


Both males and females can benefit from both weight lifting and cardio. However your goal is to gain muscle and weight, you should focus on weight lifting more-so than cardio because then you will need to eat more to make up the calories burned. Your wife will want to incorporate both forms, lifting and some cardio and while being in a calorie deficit. You can get more information about getting a diet and tracking calories going if you head to the Nutrition section and read the stickies.

Building muscle = calorie surplus
Losing fat/weight = calorie deficit

I know what you mean. But a whey protein supplement , you need. Whatever you do. It has so many benefits, you cant rule that out. Even if you are a newbie.

[stad0203]

I know what you mean. But a whey protein supplement , you need. Whatever you do. It has so many benefits, you cant rule that out. Even if you are a newbie.

You should use protein powders to supplement your nutrition, if you consume a good amount of protein (meet your daily needs) in food: a powder is not needed. Its just easier in most cases.

OP - get commited to the process before adding supplements. Get in the gym and get in the kitchen; then check back with us in a few weeks and we can recommend some things.

[ChrisSWE]

You should use protein powders to supplement your nutrition, if you consume a good amount of protein (meet your daily needs) in food: a powder is not needed. Its just easier in most cases.

OP - get commited to the process before adding supplements. Get in the gym and get in the kitchen; then check back with us in a few weeks and we can recommend some things.

The thing is, food from protein does not have as high of a leucine content. Leucine has been proven to be highly anabolic. I would def ad Whey. No matter what. In fact, as it is milk i would even put it in the food category. Also, very hard to get the recommended protein amount just from foods. Even if it is possible, its hard.

[drroosterhammer]

Diet has been an implemented already for over a month now. She's been averaging herself to 1200 calories per day while I've been in the range of 3000-4000. She has seen a loss of roughly 10 pounds (dropping from 240 to 230) through diet and gym however my weight and strength has neither gone up or down. We eat lots of chicken, pork, and beef but mostly chicken. We eat a variety of vegetables and fruits. Dairy, peanut butter and nut products are prohibited due to allergy.

Is it true that resistance training enables/activates better calorie burning results? One of the trainers explained it's better to do resistance first before hitting cardio equipment.

[lucia316]

The thing is, food from protein does not have as high of a leucine content. Leucine has been proven to be highly anabolic. I would def ad Whey. No matter what. In fact, as it is milk i would even put it in the food category. Also, very hard to get the recommended protein amount just from foods. Even if it is possible, its hard.

Yeah, that's pretty much majoring in a minor. If you're meeting your macro you're getting plenty of amino acids including leucine. Just because source A may have more leucine than source B it doesn't mean source A makes you "more anabolic." Your body is in a constant state of flux between anabolic and catabolic states. Staying "anabolic" doesn't necessarily = MOAR GAINZ.

It's not hard at all to meet your macro via food depending on your size. There are plenty of days where I meet my macro without powdered food. I get between 170-180g per day myself and have gone weeks without needing to supplement.

[ChrisSWE]

Yeah, that's pretty much majoring in a minor. If you're meeting your macro you're getting plenty of amino acids including leucine. Just because source A may have more leucine than source B it doesn't mean source A makes you "more anabolic." Your body is in a constant state of flux between anabolic and catabolic states. Staying "anabolic" doesn't necessarily = MOAR GAINZ.

It's not hard at all to meet your macro via food depending on your size. There are plenty of days where I meet my macro without powdered food. I get between 170-180g per day myself and have gone weeks without needing to supplement.

20 grams of protein per chicken or meat. Yeah, you only need about 8 or 10 of those per day minimum. No, for a normal person a Whey supp is highly recommendable.

[lucia316]

20 grams of protein per chicken or meat. Yeah, you only need about 8 or 10 of those per day minimum. No, for a normal person a Whey supp is highly recommendable.

What does this even mean? 20 grams of protein per what chicken or meat? 4oz of chicken breast has nearly 30g and that's a nothing portion size for people training. 4oz of sirloin steak is nearly the same and that's a nothing portion size as well. Then there's other non-meat foods as well. Cottage cheese has nearly 30g in a cup...another nothing portion size.

Not sure you really know what you're talking about here. There's always Google to help fix that.

[Cheftepesh]

As your starting out I would take time to read the nutrition section. There is a wealth of knowledge there. Look at information on diet and macros. This will aid you in figuring out how many calories to consume in a day to meet your goals. Take the time to read up on programs and even consider if your gym offers a free session with a trainer. These can help you gear in the direction you want to go.

[rjoylo2008]

As a newbie it's important to put the time in at the gym. Plenty of decent workout programs listed on this site to choose from. At your stage I wouldn't info overload. Use common sense to avoid injury. An injury is the worst thing that could happen when just starting off.

Also, I think now would be as good a time as any for you both to incorporate a whey supplement into your program. It's good for the psyche, especially after a grueling gym session.

For her and her goal a powdered whey could simply the process of her getting the protein without the unnecessary cals.

For him it's an easy way to add extra daily cals.

Though I would get two different whey protein powders. Low cal/low carb mixed with water/or unflavored almond milk for her.

For him, something higher in cals with some carbs and fats mixed with milk or almond milk.

If there is a deficiency present an omega fish/krill oil supplement is always a good thing to add to your diet.

[ChrisSWE]

What does this even mean? 20 grams of protein per what chicken or meat? 4oz of chicken breast has nearly 30g and that's a nothing portion size for people training. 4oz of sirloin steak is nearly the same and that's a nothing portion size as well. Then there's other non-meat foods as well. Cottage cheese has nearly 30g in a cup...another nothing portion size.

Not sure you really know what you're talking about here. There's always Google to help fix that.

You seem to not understand , normal people. They like to make it as easy as possible. Not cook steak and chickan all day long. LEts say you get 30gram as you say. You need to cook 6 pieces then. IT is way to much. Cottage cheese, a normal person tends to try in the beginning but get tired of it. A whey protein, is the choice. Trust me, i been in the game for a long time.

[lucia316]

You seem to not understand , normal people. They like to make it as easy as possible. Not cook steak and chickan all day long. LEts say you get 30gram as you say. You need to cook 6 pieces then. IT is way to much. Cottage cheese, a normal person tends to try in the beginning but get tired of it. A whey protein, is the choice. Trust me, i been in the game for a long time.

Why would I trust you and your epic negs when you're not really speaking anything close to reality here? Seriously, that's a rather small piece of meat 3.5-4oz. Most people, normal or otherwise, eat larger portions than that especially those who are training. If they aren't willing to eat that much then this "game" probably isn't for them.

Further, there are plenty of other sources of protein than cottage cheese if one tires of that. Any protein powder is great if you need the help meeting your macro, but it doesn't change the fact that it's: A) not necessary; and B) that this post was utter BS regardless of how long you've "been in the game":

The thing is, food from protein does not have as high of a leucine content. Leucine has been proven to be highly anabolic. I would def ad Whey. No matter what. In fact, as it is milk i would even put it in the food category. Also, very hard to get the recommended protein amount just from foods. Even if it is possible, its hard.

[BigDaddyBrose]

You should use protein powders to supplement your nutrition, if you consume a good amount of protein (meet your daily needs) in food: a powder is not needed. Its just easier in most cases.

OP - get commited to the process before adding supplements. Get in the gym and get in the kitchen; then check back with us in a few weeks and we can recommend some things.

^^^^this and find a food tracking app....lots of options but I like MyFitness Pal..... it will benefit BOTH of you...

[BigDaddyBrose]

Yeah, that's pretty much majoring in a minor. If you're meeting your macro you're getting plenty of amino acids including leucine. Just because source A may have more leucine than source B it doesn't mean source A makes you "more anabolic." Your body is in a constant state of flux between anabolic and catabolic states. Staying "anabolic" doesn't necessarily = MOAR GAINZ.

It's not hard at all to meet your macro via food depending on your size. There are plenty of days where I meet my macro without powdered food. I get between 170-180g per day myself and have gone weeks without needing to supplement.

^^^^^also this...but certainly a quality protein powder you like isn’t out of the question.....however, benefits of eating actual food can’t be overstated.... I relied on powdered food way too much when I started. But after spending some time reading and following what many of these guys and gals are saying here, and in my own world, the difference made has been staggering....

[ChrisSWE]

Why would I trust you and your epic negs when you're not really speaking anything close to reality here? Seriously, that's a rather small piece of meat 3.5-4oz. Most people, normal or otherwise, eat larger portions than that especially those who are training. If they aren't willing to eat that much then this "game" probably isn't for them.

Further, there are plenty of other sources of protein than cottage cheese if one tires of that. Any protein powder is great if you need the help meeting your macro, but it doesn't change the fact that it's: A) not necessary; and B) that this post was utter BS regardless of how long you've "been in the game":

Dude, get real. All i said is that they easiest choice for a newbie is adding a protein powder. It is very beneficial. No need say that i have no idea. I have an opinion, you have one. You disagree of mine, and i agree of that.

[lucia316]

Dude, get real. All i said is that they easiest choice for a newbie is adding a protein powder. It is very beneficial. No need say that i have no idea. I have an opinion, you have one. You disagree of mine, and i agree of that.

No the easiest choice for a newbie is eating food and not convincing them that powdered food is necessary nor magic (Not that you said that). Adding protein powder isn't necessarily beneficial. It's just powdered food. Whole foods also have better micros, so there's that upside too.

It isn't a strong opinion if it's based on a lack of facts (incorrect assumption and numbers on protein content of foods). I believe that grass is red is an opinion not based on anything factual. You started stating pseudo "facts," that were incorrect as justification for your opinion.

[BULLED]

Just had one of these for lunch:



around 200gr of protonz. How long should I wait to drink my protein shake? Pls respond asap, I feel I'm catabolising

[BigDaddyBrose]

Just had one of these for lunch:



around 200gr of protonz. How long should I wait to drink my protein shake? Pls respond asap, I feel I'm catabolising

I would have consumed the shake WITH the meal....and then followed up with protein pills, flogging by kendo stick, and season 1 of the Golden Girls.........but you are already catabolic so gainz lost..........

[lucia316]

I would have consumed the shake WITH the meal....and then followed up with protein pills, flogging by kendo stick, and season 1 of the Golden Girls.........but you are already catabolic so gainz lost..........

I heard that's better than glutamine and EAAs post-workout.

[BULLED]

I would have consumed the shake WITH the meal....and then followed up with protein pills, flogging by kendo stick, and season 1 of the Golden Girls.........but you are already catabolic so gainz lost..........

[BigDaddyBrose]

I heard that's better than glutamine and EAAs post-workout.

And superior test boosting.....

[ChrisSWE]

No the easiest choice for a newbie is eating food and not convincing them that powdered food is necessary nor magic (Not that you said that). Adding protein powder isn't necessarily beneficial. It's just powdered food. Whole foods also have better micros, so there's that upside too.

It isn't a strong opinion if it's based on a lack of facts (incorrect assumption and numbers on protein content of foods). I believe that grass is red is an opinion not based on anything factual. You started stating pseudo "facts," that were incorrect as justification for your opinion.

yes, i agree. A supplement is not a substitute to whole foods. But Whey is very easy and beneficial to give your diet a boost. There is a lot of studies that has showed , people with whey in diet has better results vs those with no whey.

[lucia316]

yes, i agree. A supplement is not a substitute to whole foods. But Whey is very easy and beneficial to give your diet a boost. There is a lot of studies that has showed , people with whey in diet has better results vs those with no whey.

Lots of studies mentioned, zero studies linked.

Whey does not "boost" one's diet any more than any other source of protein. In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein.

[ChrisSWE]

Lots of studies mentioned, zero studies linked.

Whey does not "boost" one's diet any more than any other source of protein. In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein.

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...y-protein.html

https://www.mensfitness.com/nutritio...g-whey-protein


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21912246


"whey protein may affect glucose metabolism and muscle protein synthesis."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25169440


" protein supplementation may promote muscle hypertrophy and enhance gains in muscle strength in both untrained and trained individuals."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24435468

"beneficial effects such as reduced muscle soreness and markers of muscle damage become more evident when supplemental protein is consumed after daily training sessions. Furthermore, the data suggest potential ergogenic effects associated with protein supplementation are greatest if participants are in negative nitrogen and/or energy balance."

[Heizz]

Thread has gone sideways on OP.

OP, glad to see that you are your wife are taking on new goals.

If you want to gain weight, you need to ensure that you are eating in a caloric surplus diet (eating above maintenance calories).

Whereas if you want to lose weight, you need to ensure that you are eating in a caloric deficit diet.

Figuring out your caloric/macro goals will help lead you to what supplementation would be required (i.e. if you need a protein powder to help you meet your protein macro goals, etc.).

[lucia316]

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...y-protein.html

No studies linked. Just an article on a site that sells protein....

https://www.mensfitness.com/nutritio...g-whey-protein

No study linked backing what you stated that whey is better than protein in general. The fat loss study referenced did not control diet, but simply gave a "diet plan" with a supposed 500 calorie deficit and then didn't actually control that as it was self reported.

The "increase size and strength" study didn't control the diet either.

The "reduce hunger" study was on obese people, but didn't test actually giving them food with 50g of protein. Comparing protein - which most would agree is more satiating than sugar - to 2 types of sugar and saying, "Hey these people were more full" is ridiculous.

On the "cancer" front. There was nothing other than, "We suggest that whey protein may be exerting its effect on carcinogenesis by enhancing GSH concentration." That isn't anything conclusive. Worse, it appears it was on rodents. I can't see the full study on this one, only the abstract.

In "manage stress," the conclusion was, "further research is needed on the effects of postsynaptic serotonin agents..." Nothing crazy here, but the results are interesting.

I think the problem here is that you didn't actually read the studies, you just Googled and put in a bunch of links to support your belief that whey is magic. This is called confirmation bia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21912246


"whey protein may affect glucose metabolism and muscle protein synthesis."

Except your in your pubmed ninjaing you forgot this crucial point after that statement in the abstract, "However, the evidence for a clinical efficacy is not strong enough to make final recommendations with respect to a specific dose and the duration of supplementation."

Further, any source of protein would produce the effects they're discussing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25169440


"protein supplementation may promote muscle hypertrophy and enhance gains in muscle strength in both untrained and trained individuals."

I love how you've picked and chosen which parts to quote. Again, you forgot this part, "This review suggests that protein supplementation may enhance muscle mass and performance when the training stimulus is adequate (e.g., frequency, volume, duration), and dietary intake is consistent with recommendations for physically active individuals."

So basically, supplementing protein is helpful if you're needing help meeting your macro. Nothing in this review claimed that whey > any other source of protein.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24435468

"beneficial effects such as reduced muscle soreness and markers of muscle damage become more evident when supplemental protein is consumed after daily training sessions. Furthermore, the data suggest potential ergogenic effects associated with protein supplementation are greatest if participants are in negative nitrogen and/or energy balance."

SMH. This is almost sad and pathetic at this point. Did you not read this part in your abstract ninjaing efforts?
"However, to date, when protein supplements are provided, acute changes in post-exercise protein synthesis and anabolic intracellular signaling have not resulted in measureable reductions in muscle damage and enhanced recovery of muscle function. Limitations in study designs together with the large variability in surrogate markers of muscle damage reduced the strength of the evidence-base."

Nothing you posted supports your point. It does support what the rest of us have been attempting to communicate that protein is protein in the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, and powdered food is not magic, better nor worse than any other source of protein.

[ChrisSWE]

No studies linked. Just an article on a site that sells protein....



No study linked backing what you stated that whey is better than protein in general. The fat loss study referenced did not control diet, but simply gave a "diet plan" with a supposed 500 calorie deficit and then didn't actually control that as it was self reported.

The "increase size and strength" study didn't control the diet either.

The "reduce hunger" study was on obese people, but didn't test actually giving them food with 50g of protein. Comparing protein - which most would agree is more satiating than sugar - to 2 types of sugar and saying, "Hey these people were more full" is ridiculous.

On the "cancer" front. There was nothing other than, "We suggest that whey protein may be exerting its effect on carcinogenesis by enhancing GSH concentration." That isn't anything conclusive. Worse, it appears it was on rodents. I can't see the full study on this one, only the abstract.

In "manage stress," the conclusion was, "further research is needed on the effects of postsynaptic serotonin agents..." Nothing crazy here, but the results are interesting.

I think the problem here is that you didn't actually read the studies, you just Googled and put in a bunch of links to support your belief that whey is magic. This is called confirmation bia.





Except your in your pubmed ninjaing you forgot this crucial point after that statement in the abstract, "However, the evidence for a clinical efficacy is not strong enough to make final recommendations with respect to a specific dose and the duration of supplementation."

Further, any source of protein would produce the effects they're discussing.




I love how you've picked and chosen which parts to quote. Again, you forgot this part, "This review suggests that protein supplementation may enhance muscle mass and performance when the training stimulus is adequate (e.g., frequency, volume, duration), and dietary intake is consistent with recommendations for physically active individuals."

So basically, supplementing protein is helpful if you're needing help meeting your macro. Nothing in this review claimed that whey > any other source of protein.




SMH. This is almost sad and pathetic at this point. Did you not read this part in your abstract ninjaing efforts?
"However, to date, when protein supplements are provided, acute changes in post-exercise protein synthesis and anabolic intracellular signaling have not resulted in measureable reductions in muscle damage and enhanced recovery of muscle function. Limitations in study designs together with the large variability in surrogate markers of muscle damage reduced the strength of the evidence-base."

Nothing you posted supports your point. It does support what the rest of us have been attempting to communicate that protein is protein in the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, and powdered food is not magic, better nor worse than any other source of protein.

lol, i am no expert. I just picked the first page results on google.

[lucia316]

lol, i am no expert. I just picked the first page results on google.

Which was my point. You don't know what you're talking about thus you went and tried to use "science" to back your position and did it wrong. You stated that science back your position, it did not. Further you either didn't read the stuff you linked completely thus missed the contradictions, or you ignored them and attempted to paint a failed picture. Either way, I think you're done here.