Direct Abdominal Work

[LifeLesOrdinary]

I want to know what your opinions are about working abdominals. I in order to have a great mid section I will need to lose weight in the form of fat. This could not be more evident then in my case. (70 down 48 to go)

At this point it is near imposible to know how much muscle is on any part of my body (including abs). But I recently read an article

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1305014

and it scared me a bit. I would love to hear what anyone has to say on this topic and I apologize if this has been discused before.

Thanks,
Holly

[nicoledominique]

Hmm...Interesting...

Well, the feeling that I got from that article is that the writer is a bit biased. He seems to make it quite clear that his ideal female bodytype is that of a Hollywood starlet, ie: Britney Spears (early years), Jessica Simpson, etc...

He ASSUMES that this is the look that most women want and are striving for, and he is probably right when talking about the general population. I, however, would not include myself in that general population and I'm sure a lot of women here wouldn't put themselves in that category either.

The author seems to shrug off women who want a thicker, more muscular bodytype - telling them to head to Mexico for some steroids...Nice passive aggressive insult there.

I'm sure he is educated and informed and probably really knows his stuff, but the fact that he made such an idiotic/insensitive/ignorant comment made me disregard the entire article.

[pirouette]

I have to agree with him to a certain point. I tend to build muscle rather easliy. Easier than alot of men I know....sucks for them I guess ; ) I just always figured I had a test level on the upper-end of most females.

However, the article goes from what could have been a well written, informative piece to a narcissistic, load of crap. He assumes that his opinion of the ideal female body is what most females aspire to be.....so much for his self proclaimed intuition. If he really had such a keen eye for what women want he'd be rich and famous.

Bottom line, work the muscle and it will grow. I've gladly added a few inches to my waist to gain the core strength irequired for activities and sports I enjoy.

[LifeLesOrdinary]

I have to admit his article was both male centric and opinionated. However I also have to admit that the idea of a thick waist does not appeal to me. Having been severely overweight most of my adult life, I wouldn’t want to train in a way that will result in my waist being any larger then it has to be.

I guess my real question is: Should I worry about direct ab work right now or should I just assume that the core compound exercises (squats, deadlifts, ect) I do are sufficient?


Thanks again,

Holly

[Amanda76]

Honestly, I think compound lifts are more likely to give you a thick waist than ab work (particularly unweighted ab work), but I don't think the Britney Spears photos are a true representation of how much her waist has "thickened," and I don't think you need to worry about it that much. I know a few skinny chicks (and guys) who do hundreds of reps for abs a day (and sadly don't have abs after spending all that time on them...LOL) who don't have thick waists.

I think it's important to mention that he's comparing professional photos of Britney (that were taken from angles that would exaggerate that shape and likely altered to some degree) to live photos. Thinking back, I don't think she struck me as particularly tiny in the very video he mentioned by outfit in his article (Ooops, I did it again...maybe check that out and see what you think). At any rate, while weight training can thicken your waist, I think he exaggerated his point by comparing photos that are really uncomparable.

[pirouette]

Very good points. OP I don't think you should worry about the ab work adding to your midsection so much. I've always been told that abs are made at the dinner table...meaning your diet will have more of an impact on your "abs" than your specific training.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

Honestly, I think compound lifts are more likely to give you a thick waist than ab work (particularly unweighted ab work), but I don't think the Britney Spears photos are a true representation of how much her waist has "thickened," and I don't think you need to worry about it that much. I know a few skinny chicks (and guys) who do hundreds of reps for abs a day (and sadly don't have abs after spending all that time on them...LOL) who don't have thick waists.

I think it's important to mention that he's comparing professional photos of Britney (that were taken from angles that would exaggerate that shape and likely altered to some degree) to live photos. Thinking back, I don't think she struck me as particularly tiny in the very video he mentioned by outfit in his article (Ooops, I did it again...maybe check that out and see what you think). At any rate, while weight training can thicken your waist, I think he exaggerated his point by comparing photos that are really uncomparable.

Totally agree regarding the "compounds v unweighted abs" thing. One thing about Brittany Spears...as entertainers that show their bodies go, she is fairly endomorphic. Not matter what her personal life is, I imagine that it is harder for her to stay in shape than it is for the more ectomorphic or mesomorphic types. I actually have always thought that about her (that she has it more difficult than some of her peers).

Oh...and to compare a person as a teenager to the same person as a woman post child birth is crazy.

I do agree about the non-weighted abs idea. People refuse to believe that the abs will put on muscle. Not only do they, but because they are used often it tends to stay once built. People say "train the abs like any other muscle" which doesn't really make sense IMO, since we dont' want the abs to GROW like any other muscle (at least most people don't from a physique perspective). These ideas that are looked down upon by e-experts as "stupid" (frequent ab training without weights) became popular for a reason.

[eminva]

Well, I've read that article before and actually took a lot of it to heart. Once, in college, I took an abs class in college for a semester. The result- a buddha belly for a while after. Obviously, most of that is fat, but since i tend to hold fat around my middle, I avoid most ab work, especially weighted side bends. I have no interest in growing my obliques even the tiniest bit.

So, I can't give expert advice, but I know that i want almost every muscle in my body to grow, except for the sides of my waist, so I train accordingly. I figure the compound exercises, plus some yoga and pilates keep me strong enough to do all that I need to do, while minimizing abdominal muscle growth.

[7deadlycyns]

I don't really think direct ab work is necessary if you're already doing compound exercises. Some people do both, but only to add core strength, not for aesthetic purposes. Avoid ab work if you want a small waist, especially oblique work since all big obliques do is widen your waist and give you a boxy shape. I'm not sure how much of an effect compound movements really have on widening the waist. I've been doing nothing but compound exercises for a long time now and my waist hasn't gotten any wider. If anything, it looks smaller since my lower body has grown a lot and it looks smaller in comparison.

[Donica]

I don't know what you ladies are doing, but I've never found my direct ab work to contribute to a wider waist or a "Buddha belly"... all I have is a nice girdle of strength, and as a person's bodyfat lowers or gathers, more of the so-called "six pack" is unveiled or hidden. Regular oblique work accentuates your sexy "oblique lines" and--particularly when core work is done to target the inner abdominals as well (I like planks and stomach vacuums for that, personally)--your abs are left strong, flexible, and healthy. And really, why ignore such a major bodypart? It's like deciding not to work your arms specifically just because your bench press hits your tris secondarily and your rows your bis. I just don't subscribe to that attitude toward training, even for women.

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by 7deadlycyns

I'm not sure how much of an effect compound movements really have on widening the waist. I've been doing nothing but compound exercises for a long time now and my waist hasn't gotten any wider. If anything, it looks smaller since my lower body has grown a lot and it looks smaller in comparison.

I think your concept of "widening" is different than my concept of "thickening." You have to remember we are not 2-dimensional. Any girth measurement you take through your torso includes any growth that has taken place through the corresponding areas of your back. Compound movements cause growth all over as your body works to stabilize, which is why they can cause your (lean) waist measurement to increase.

It is a good point you made with aesthetics. Our actual waist measurement doesn't matter when proportionally the rest of our body has gotten bigger at a much faster rate than our abs will grow.

As for "buddha bellies," the only thing I can think of that would cause your fat to be pushed out in a way that makes you look pregnant or like buddha (assuming bf% has stayed the same and you aren't eating anything that is causing you to bloat), is not controlling your abs when they are engaged (with compound lifts OR ab work). It's important to stay in the habit of keeping them in. The stomach vacuums Donica mentioned are great!

[7deadlycyns]

Originally Posted by Donica

It's like deciding not to work your arms specifically just because your bench press hits your tris secondarily and your rows your bis.

I do just that too. Nothing wrong with that line of reasoning at all. It's why they're called compound exercises. I do a lot more exercises than rows and bench press that target my arms though. I just find isolation work redundant in my routine.

[Dbol26]

agreed

[goddessamazon]

Britney Spears, Jaime Pressly and Jessica Simpson????

Can't relate to any of them and therefore the article doesn't apply to women like myself.


However..............


I've learned in the past that doing weighted oblique work will give you a bigger midsection instead of a smaller one so I stopped those. Otherwise, I'm keeping my ab work the same since my body type is exempt from the article.

[LifeLesOrdinary]

Thanks for all the great replies I think this helps me more then the article itself did.

Thanks,
Holly

[robes1]

He is actually correct, I am living proof. I used to have a very small waist (24 inches). I started training my abs alot over the years and now have a 26 inch waist (not due to fat) and now I wish I didn't have such a boxy waist because I compete. So it depends on what your goals are. But yes if you directly work your abs alot and especially the obliques, it will make your waist larger, not protruding though.