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12-03-2005, 11:13 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 141
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Are Supplements Really Necessary?
I got into this debate with my fiancee last night, and decided it would make a great (if not yet overdone) debate on this forum.
My finacee is an MD out of UCLA, and honestly feels that If I were to stop drinking my regular protein shake supplement like I do promptly after every workout, then my gains would still be about the same. Yes, it is obvious that bulking up on carbs before a workout helps with one's energy levels, but <b>is a post workout protein supplement really THAT helpful?</b> Studies have been shown that they may help, but then again many of these could be biased and funded by the supplement manufacturers themselves...so who do we believe?
Have you found any convincing studies, or exceptionally clear personal experience that has supported either side? Talk amongst yourselves!
---Metamorphosis3
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12-03-2005, 11:15 AM
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#2
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2005
Age: 19
Posts: 646
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Protein is pretty helpful because it digests fast (whey) and get into your body faster. Its not REQUIRED, but helps.
Protein has no side effects, lol.
As far as Results, I say Protein is more of a food replacement, but I think you should still take it.
Dont know much as far as results, but Whey Protein has a good Amino Acid Profile which should help.
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12-03-2005, 11:19 AM
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#3
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Lifestyle --> Deathstyle.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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It's all about calories in vs. calories out and the quality of those calories.
Timing and micromanaging are overrated, but the medical community recommendation of 1g/kg bodyweight protein is assinine for athletes.
__________________
Doesn't work for DS, works with Matt.
Although a physician, my place in here at bb.com is as a fitness enthusiast and recommendations do not represent medical advice. Please consult your examining physician for all medical concerns.
Before listening to any rep, realize this:
1) Most are no more credentialed than you. 2) Most have no input and no understanding of their product formulations. 3) Most are merely paid in free product from the company they represent.
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12-03-2005, 11:23 AM
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#4
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BAMF
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Roseville, Michigan, United States
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Well supplements such as creatine and NO2 boosters, test boosters, Nope not necessary, but protein is pretty necessary. Without ONE shake.. well have fun eating it all. Also, PWO whey is good due to its extremly fast digestability giving you the protein necessary for muscle repairs within 30 minutes-1 hour tops..
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12-03-2005, 11:27 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 566
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Supplements are just the icing on the cake. Without your whole foods as a base, these supplements would be worthless.
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12-03-2005, 11:28 AM
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#6
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Blue GENE
Join Date: Apr 2003
Stats: 6'0", 225 lbs
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Metamorphosis3
Are Supplements Really Necessary?
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Nope 
__________________
CONTROLLED LABS - WINNING the WAR against GENETICS
Email: pt [at] controlledlabs.com
Disclaimer: I'm just a PART-TIME consultant for CONTROLLED LABS. The above post is my own PERSONAL OPINION and DOES NOT REPRESENT the official position of any company/entity. It DOES NOT constitute medical advice. CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility (no hormones produced in the facility/no cross contamination).
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12-03-2005, 11:42 AM
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#7
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McKinney Lion
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 921
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BodyPoints: 444
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Protein supplementation is only nescessary when you don't get enough out of your diet. For most people it's impossible to get the right amount of protein from their diet, so it is nescessary. Also, other supplements like creatine, ephedrine.... they are only nescessary if you need them to meet your goals.
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12-03-2005, 11:45 AM
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#8
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Are You Aware Founder
Join Date: May 2005
Age: 17
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by uhockey
the medical community recommendation of 1g/kg bodyweight protein is assinine for athletes.
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For athletes? Probably not. For bodybuilders? Definitely
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Incredibly close to guaranteeing a rep raise of one
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12-03-2005, 11:57 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 6 
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I find that supplements are nearly as good for the mental edge as they are for the physical edge. Its tough to get to the gym month after month, year after year, and as a lifetime commitment. Sure, some days are easier than others, but I find that a lot of the times, when my supps are in order, I get a mental edge. You know, then I want to go rip it up.
As far as a post workout shake, I am not about to find out if its not worth it. I'd rather spend the next upteen years knowing I did everything I could to get the results. Its just too much hard work and time not to do it the best way possible.
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12-03-2005, 12:46 PM
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#10
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Prove you're worth a damn
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
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Posts: 4,968
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Protein powder is just a convenience. Chicken doesn't last in a shaker bottle for 12 hours in heat.
__________________
Height: 5'10.5"
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Nov, 2008: 177lbs @ 5.5% I'd say
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12-03-2005, 01:05 PM
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#11
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()()()()()()()()()
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lucas County
Posts: 2,592
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DJohnson
Protein powder is just a convenience. Chicken doesn't last in a shaker bottle for 12 hours in heat.
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Neither does my protein uuughh gross 
Just kidding with ya 
SeaHawk22
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12-03-2005, 01:08 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 36
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by uhockey
Timing and micromanaging are overrated, but the medical community recommendation of 1g/kg bodyweight protein is assinine for athletes.
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Well it's real simple. Why tag a gram per bodyweight measurment on protein intake?
It should be based on energy expenditure too. Athletes burn more calories therefore using a "static" recommendation based on weight makes no sense.
There is always a logical explanation for everything if think about it.
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12-03-2005, 01:10 PM
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#13
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Lifestyle --> Deathstyle.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phosphate bond
Well it's real simple. Why tag a gram per bodyweight measurment on protein intake?
It should be based on energy expenditure too. Athletes burn more calories therefore using a "static" recommendation based on weight makes no sense.
There is always a logical explanation for everything if think about it.
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I'm going to catch your misquote before the edit! WOO!!
Anyhow, I agree, but as you know, medicine is all about making blanket statements to apply to both the sedentary housewife and the olympic sprinter. Hence the BMI!
__________________
Doesn't work for DS, works with Matt.
Although a physician, my place in here at bb.com is as a fitness enthusiast and recommendations do not represent medical advice. Please consult your examining physician for all medical concerns.
Before listening to any rep, realize this:
1) Most are no more credentialed than you. 2) Most have no input and no understanding of their product formulations. 3) Most are merely paid in free product from the company they represent.
Last edited by uhockey; 12-03-2005 at 01:12 PM.
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12-03-2005, 01:12 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 6,399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by uhockey
I'm going to catch your misquote before the edit!
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Sometimes I edit for typos. But the point I'm trying to make is that fuel oxidation rates are higher and this includes protein too.
EDIT (lol): Yeah, I've pointed out why I think the whole bodyweight per gram thing is kind of silly before. My opinion is % per total calories is probably more accurate for people doing a lot of exercise/heavy exertion.
Last edited by Phosphate bond; 12-03-2005 at 01:17 PM.
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12-03-2005, 01:14 PM
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#15
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Lifestyle --> Deathstyle.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Age: 29
Posts: 24,195
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phosphate bond
Sometimes I edit for typos. But the point I'm trying to make is that fuel oxidation rates are higher and this includes protein too.
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Just messin with ya man......I'm a total type A perfectionist myself, I just like to goof around as well.
__________________
Doesn't work for DS, works with Matt.
Although a physician, my place in here at bb.com is as a fitness enthusiast and recommendations do not represent medical advice. Please consult your examining physician for all medical concerns.
Before listening to any rep, realize this:
1) Most are no more credentialed than you. 2) Most have no input and no understanding of their product formulations. 3) Most are merely paid in free product from the company they represent.
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12-03-2005, 01:43 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 141
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My major concern is with visual results. I do my best to eat as well as possible...and when I work out, I usually follow my shake with a full dinner. It makes common sense that natural food is the best way to go (heck, that is what we all evolved with). It seems that a shake is not REQUIRED, but more of a form of insurance that one is getting the nutrients they need for optimal growth/performance.
All of your views are very interesting and refreshing to read.
Thank you for contributing so far!
---Meta
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12-03-2005, 01:45 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lax891122
PWO whey is good due to its extremly fast digestability giving you the protein necessary for muscle repairs within 30 minutes-1 hour tops..
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What does PWO stand for?
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12-03-2005, 01:47 PM
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#18
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Blue GENE
Join Date: Apr 2003
Stats: 6'0", 225 lbs
Posts: 80,831
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BodyPoints: 56743
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Metamorphosis3
What does PWO stand for?
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Post Workout
__________________
CONTROLLED LABS - WINNING the WAR against GENETICS
Email: pt [at] controlledlabs.com
Disclaimer: I'm just a PART-TIME consultant for CONTROLLED LABS. The above post is my own PERSONAL OPINION and DOES NOT REPRESENT the official position of any company/entity. It DOES NOT constitute medical advice. CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility (no hormones produced in the facility/no cross contamination).
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12-03-2005, 02:05 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
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nescesarry - absolutely not
convienient - yes. example: eating 400g of protien a day would by expensive and difficult.
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12-03-2005, 02:07 PM
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#20
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Lifestyle --> Deathstyle.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Age: 29
Posts: 24,195
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Metamorphosis3
My major concern is with visual results. I do my best to eat as well as possible...and when I work out, I usually follow my shake with a full dinner. It makes common sense that natural food is the best way to go (heck, that is what we all evolved with). It seems that a shake is not REQUIRED, but more of a form of insurance that one is getting the nutrients they need for optimal growth/performance.
All of your views are very interesting and refreshing to read.
Thank you for contributing so far!
---Meta
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Actually, breast milk is about 70% whey and 30% casein with a carbohydrate structure predominantly based on lactose.........so to be fair, we didn't exactly "evolve with" grilled chicken breast and oats any moreso than we did from whey.
__________________
Doesn't work for DS, works with Matt.
Although a physician, my place in here at bb.com is as a fitness enthusiast and recommendations do not represent medical advice. Please consult your examining physician for all medical concerns.
Before listening to any rep, realize this:
1) Most are no more credentialed than you. 2) Most have no input and no understanding of their product formulations. 3) Most are merely paid in free product from the company they represent.
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12-03-2005, 02:12 PM
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#21
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Eats Carbs
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 3,434
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Nope, they're not. I made most of my journey with just fish oil and a strict diet. I think aside from the bare essentials (protein, vitamins, fish oils and what not), learning about your body, the way your body reacts to different dieting, and a decent exercise regimen is more important than supplements. With that said, supplement science is damned sexy, and they can provide a nice edge. But you ain't gonna be going anywhere without decent nutrition, no matter how many supplements you take.
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12-03-2005, 02:14 PM
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#22
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E-stats: 6'5" 575lbs 6%BF
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Home of the Redsox
Age: 28
Posts: 2,310
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Me and my old boss got into this discussion the other day. Ive noticed over the years that I grow the same whether I get 200grams of protein a day or 400grams. I went a pretty long time without any protein powders and I still grew in that time frame.
I see lots of people on here pimping out "you MUST take 2X your bodyweight in protein to grow" and I just sit back and wonder why someone like me (approx 275lbs..it goes up and down so much)....would hafta take 550grams of protein everyday! Thats pure OVERKILL if you ask me.
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12-03-2005, 02:17 PM
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#23
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Are You Aware Founder
Join Date: May 2005
Age: 17
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cheezefacta
Me and my old boss got into this discussion the other day. Ive noticed over the years that I grow the same whether I get 200grams of protein a day or 400grams. I went a pretty long time without any protein powders and I still grew in that time frame.
I see lots of people on here pimping out "you MUST take 2X your bodyweight in protein to grow" and I just sit back and wonder why someone like me (approx 275lbs..it goes up and down so much)....would hafta take 550grams of protein everyday! Thats pure OVERKILL if you ask me.
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Exactly. I think that noobs starting out (bulking), who don't weigh much, can benefit from 2 grams per pound of bodyweight. But once you start getting heavy, eating 2 grams per pound of bodyweight becomes ridiculous and unnecessary.
The more muscle you're building (noob gains), the more protein you'll need. When your noobs gains begin to level off, you do not need 2 grams/ pound (unless juicing) by any means. Complex carbs, fruits, saturated fats, and other things besides protein will help you grow just as much.
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Incredibly close to guaranteeing a rep raise of one
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12-03-2005, 02:19 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 6,399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by uhockey
Actually, breast milk is about 70% whey and 30% casein with a carbohydrate structure predominantly based on lactose.........so to be fair, we didn't exactly "evolve with" grilled chicken breast and oats any moreso than we did from whey. |
I knew breast milk was principally whey, but I didn't realize it was that much.
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12-03-2005, 02:20 PM
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#25
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Are You Aware Founder
Join Date: May 2005
Age: 17
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phosphate bond
I knew breast milk was principally whey, but I didn't realize it was that much.
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Where can I learn more about breast milk?
Maybe Scivation can make a writeup and start selling it. Sounds like a good formula.
Macro ratios?
Too much sugar for me. I'll stick to oats.
__________________
Incredibly close to guaranteeing a rep raise of one
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12-03-2005, 02:20 PM
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#26
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On a War Path
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York, United States
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The answer to the question is wholely dependant upon the reference individual. Based upon their goals, training protocols, and environment they may or may not be necessary.
(ie: For my weight-training parents - no. For myself - yes)
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
As long as the active agent is "unknown" some dork is still gonna be poppin' chicken beaks so he can freakin' squat!
Crank up those catecholamines, that's not chicken I smell being cooked.
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12-03-2005, 02:20 PM
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#27
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Resident gym sasquash
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pleasanton/Davis, California
Age: 23
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i think post workout, a protein and carb suppliment is very useful in terms of quick digestion, easy to take in, easy to carry around, easy to have at any place at any time.
other than that, i dont feel its nessesary, whole foods is more fun than shakes.
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12-03-2005, 02:24 PM
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#28
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Eats Carbs
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 3,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dosquito
Where can I learn more about breast milk?
Maybe Scivation can make a writeup and start selling it. Sounds like a good formula.
Macro ratios?
Too much sugar for me. I'll stick to oats.
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Just reminded me of a funny thread a while ago by good ol' Alan
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=274375
Straight from the breast, yo
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12-03-2005, 02:24 PM
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#29
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Are You Aware Founder
Join Date: May 2005
Age: 17
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Steve_W
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ROFL. That's great.
__________________
Incredibly close to guaranteeing a rep raise of one
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12-03-2005, 02:24 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 6,399
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 1938
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dosquito
Where can I learn more about breast milk?
Maybe Scivation can make a writeup and start selling it. Sounds like a good formula.
Macro ratios?
Too much sugar for me. I'll stick to oats.
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Haha, yeah but see babies don't need any long acting proteins because the nipple is always 3 inches away from them.
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