Does Rep Speed Determine Muscle shape?

[ironman_gee83]

Hi fellow bbers,

I was talkin to a guy in the gym and he was sayin i shud do my reps faster.
I was under the impression that time under tension was the most important thing and that rep speed should be slow for maximum gains.

My friend said that i i should the reps in a rhythmic fashion which roughly gives like one second or less per rep buy u should go over 10 reps atleast and that it would make my muscles more dense and give me a more fuller shape.

I was checking out some video clips of Flex wheeler, and he too trains like this.
For instance the speed he does upright rows.
Ronnie Coleman and Bent over barbell rows n t bar rows.

What do u guys think.

Happy New Year to u all and Hope this year brings amazing results in the gym and in life.

Regards,
Gee.

[Marc27Default]

Lifting faster requires a greater force for a given weight. A greater force generally requires more muscle recruitment. I would generally lift as forcefully as I could (not counting warmups), whether or not the rep is fast depends on the weight chosen. I would not choose a lighter weight and lift slower on purpose. I don't think it would affect muscle shape though. That would have more to do with genetics or the type of exercise chosen.

[Endeavourer]

I think if you're performing your workout too fast, you're probably make your form doggie and risking of an injury.

Slower movement means better control and longer duration of your workout, which is better in many ways and something people should focus on...

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[strawser9]

the shape is genetic; how big you can get a certain muscle depends on lots of variables(training, diet, sleep...). Muscle is made up of both fast, and slow twitch fiber. Generally the best way to dominate both is a slower negative followed by a powerfull(but controlled) positive....the best way is whatever works for you, once you figure that out it should be clear sailing.

[ironman_gee83]

still not seeing a proper explanation. cos i tried the fast rep tricep workout and i did feel a massive pump so i guess there is something happening behind it that causes it.

Still fishing for a right response. Prolly someone else here has heard of it or is during it.

Thanks guys for ur responses. Gave me some knowledge too on muscle fibres

Best of gains!

[iladelph]

I wouldnt use pump as a sole indicator.

It good to switch variables (rep speed, weight, etc.) up every once an awhile to keep your muscles in shock. That big pump you experience may be because your muscles are not accustomed to your variable change.

While I like the "fast rep" idea, I still believe the shape of a particular muscle is solely due to genetics, size on the other hand is a whole different matter.

[ironman_gee83]

Definetely bro. The pump isnt everything but its a pretty good indicator that something good is happening there.

What muscles do u do fast reps on. (by fast i dont mean sloppy.. its a full movement wit contraction and stretch but wit a slower negative than positve but overall faster than the usual rule of 2 seconds down 1 second up)

[Tyrbolift]

Pros like to do vids faster because it's more exciting and they are in contest shape usually, so they get a good pump that way.

[mAssholio]

Lifting faster requires a greater force for a given weight. A greater force generally requires more muscle recruitment. I would generally lift as forcefully as I could (not counting warmups), whether or not the rep is fast depends on the weight chosen. I would not choose a lighter weight and lift slower on purpose. I don't think it would affect muscle shape though. That would have more to do with genetics or the type of exercise chosen.

^Listen to this guy. ACTUAL speed isn't as important as INTENDED speed. Just because a weight is moving slow during a 1RM attempt doesn't mean it wouldn't be shooting up if you used the same amount of force during a 10RM. Trying to lift as fast as possible is better than intentionally slowing down. Also, shape probably won't change from rep speed and I doubt pro bodybuilders think it does.

[ironman_gee83]

^Listen to this guy. ACTUAL speed isn't as important as INTENDED speed. Just because a weight is moving slow during a 1RM attempt doesn't mean it wouldn't be shooting up if you used the same amount of force during a 10RM. Trying to lift as fast as possible is better than intentionally slowing down. Also, shape probably won't change from rep speed and I doubt pro bodybuilders think it does.

ok that made sense. Thanks bro!
Happy new year!!!

[PadreC]

Someone posted this video a few weeks ago for a question about bench but it also mentions rep speed. Granted this is for bench exercises and it will likely vary for other body parts but you might find it useful.

http://thefitshow.com/week3/milos_chest_med.htm

[Ultimate Genetics]

It's also good to consider that muscle cells only hyperthrophy, never hyperplasia. Thus even if somehow you could manipulate muscle cells to only hyperthrophy in one part of the muscle the effect would be minimal. From all I have read, no matter what the force or angle the entire section of any given muscle when used is fully activated, thus its impossible to shape a muscle by "targeting" a specific part of it.

[Defiant1]

It's also good to consider that muscle cells only hyperthrophy, never hyperplasia. Thus even if somehow you could manipulate muscle cells to only hyperthrophy in one part of the muscle the effect would be minimal. From all I have read, no matter what the force or angle the entire section of any given muscle when used is fully activated, thus its impossible to shape a muscle by "targeting" a specific part of it.

There is a lot of evidence for hyperplasia, AND there is a lot of evidence for regional hypertrophy.

OP, to answer your question....

maybe.

Muscles seem to be "layered" with different types of fibers. Often the deep fibers are more slow twitch, so it is possible that different rep speeds COULD effect muscle shape. TUT is overrated, IMO. A correlation without causality.

In cases like these, it is best to trust instinct and experience.

[Ultimate Genetics]

There is a lot of evidence for hyperplasia, AND there is a lot of evidence for regional hypertrophy.

OP, to answer your question....

maybe.

Muscles seem to be "layered" with different types of fibers. Often the deep fibers are more slow twitch, so it is possible that different rep speeds COULD effect muscle shape. TUT is overrated, IMO. A correlation without causality.

In cases like these, it is best to trust instinct and experience.

Well according to my brother, who is a doctor (albeit recently graduated and a nuerosurgeon) muscle cells never hyperplasia only fat does. In his words "It isn't fair is it?" hehe. Do you have credible sources that I could read regarding muscle hyperplasia? I would like to see the other side of the debate.

[Defiant1]

Well according to my brother, who is a doctor (albeit recently graduated and a nuerosurgeon) muscle cells never hyperplasia only fat does. In his words "It isn't fair is it?" hehe. Do you have credible sources that I could read regarding muscle hyperplasia? I would like to see the other side of the debate.

Mel Siffs "Supertraining" goes into it.

In fact, it seems hyperplasia is evidenced-the cause is the question. Some studies point to stretch resistance.

Good info:

http://anton.free.net.ph/hypertrophy_hyperplasia.pdf

[Ultimate Genetics]

Mel Siffs "Supertraining" goes into it.

In fact, it seems hyperplasia is evidenced-the cause is the question. Some studies point to stretch resistance.

Good info:

http://anton.free.net.ph/hypertrophy_hyperplasia.pdf

Thanks again Defiant, will read!

[BigJonMud]

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle. Basic physics.

In my opinion, fast lifting (more for beginners) is not advantageious in any way.

Sure, recruit some fast twitch and slow twitch- hopefully most beginners will commence a pre-conditionin prog including circuits, rowing machines and bike/treadmill.

Later on, I think its hard to deny that it requires much more muscular tension, and therefore 'force' to execute a slow and strict contraction of any muscle. Some exercises wont let you cheat, most will. Speed, and momentum is the easiest way for most people to cheat and seem strong in a gym.

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle.
Iv seen the skinniest lil bi's that would lift the local juicer and the weight he is pushing with it, that arent as big as many mens forearms.
Same with huge fat arms, that cant lift crap.

[AnaerobicAndrew]

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle. Basic physics.

In my opinion, fast lifting (more for beginners) is not advantageious in any way.

Sure, recruit some fast twitch and slow twitch- hopefully most beginners will commence a pre-conditionin prog including circuits, rowing machines and bike/treadmill.

Later on, I think its hard to deny that it requires much more muscular tension, and therefore 'force' to execute a slow and strict contraction of any muscle. Some exercises wont let you cheat, most will. Speed, and momentum is the easiest way for most people to cheat and seem strong in a gym.

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle.
Iv seen the skinniest lil bi's that would lift the local juicer and the weight he is pushing with it, that arent as big as many mens forearms.
Same with huge fat arms, that cant lift crap.

Well, youre halfway right about half of that... too bad we dont round up here.

[ironman_gee83]

Someone posted this video a few weeks ago for a question about bench but it also mentions rep speed. Granted this is for bench exercises and it will likely vary for other body parts but you might find it useful.

http://thefitshow.com/week3/milos_chest_med.htm

Thanks bro.. i am gonna check that one right now.
As for the exercise well its mostly my triceps. As u can see in my avatar its need to seperate off more. Wondering if rep speed is to blame for it. I do peak contract pretty hard and finish off wit some static holds at the end of each set.

[ironman_gee83]

maybe.

Muscles seem to be "layered" with different types of fibers. Often the deep fibers are more slow twitch, so it is possible that different rep speeds COULD effect muscle shape. TUT is overrated, IMO. A correlation without causality.

In cases like these, it is best to trust instinct and experience.

there we go, my answer which i was looking for . I am such a dumb dumb for not figuring that out myself.

Cheers Bro! Thanks to everyone else that contributed too.

[ironman_gee83]

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle. Basic physics.

In my opinion, fast lifting (more for beginners) is not advantageious in any way.

Sure, recruit some fast twitch and slow twitch- hopefully most beginners will commence a pre-conditionin prog including circuits, rowing machines and bike/treadmill.

Later on, I think its hard to deny that it requires much more muscular tension, and therefore 'force' to execute a slow and strict contraction of any muscle. Some exercises wont let you cheat, most will. Speed, and momentum is the easiest way for most people to cheat and seem strong in a gym.

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle.
Iv seen the skinniest lil bi's that would lift the local juicer and the weight he is pushing with it, that arent as big as many mens forearms.
Same with huge fat arms, that cant lift crap.

Thanks bro. U too got it right! Cheers!!!

[Kiknskreem]

Later on, I think its hard to deny that it requires much more muscular tension, and therefore 'force' to execute a slow and strict contraction of any muscle.

No.

Power = Work/Time

[Big Arm Big Pay]

i think Muscle shape is determined by your form of the exercise

[ironman_gee83]

i think Muscle shape is determined by your form of the exercise

thats true.. u can do cheat reps and not go through the full ROM and end up with an under developed muscle.

[rocketman44]

Speed will abosloutely determine muscle shape, as it is most cloesly related to the amount of tension you can focus into a muscle. Basic physics.


Later on, I think its hard to deny that it requires much more muscular tension, and therefore 'force' to execute a slow and strict contraction of any muscle. Some exercises wont let you cheat, most will. Speed, and momentum is the easiest way for most people to cheat and seem strong in a gym.

That's what I've been waiting for as I read this thread, namely, an association to be made between speed and momentum and the possibility of 'cheating' on reps.

Of course, cheating can be fine on occasion if it enables one to lift a heavier weight. But my concern would be that trying to achieve more speed could result in the use of momentum rather than muscle to move the weight.

I guess it's just something that needs to be balanced out; maybe added speed is good, as long as one does not end up creating too much momentum.

[BigJonMud]

No.

Power = Work/Time

No

You might have been thinking of Intesnity=load x duration

Power, or strength is about how hard you can contract a muscle. No more, no less.

[Kiknskreem]

No

You might have been thinking of Intesnity=load x duration

Power, or strength is about how hard you can contract a muscle. No more, no less.

No, that is limit strenght. Limit strength, or absolute strength, is irrespective of the time. Like pushing against a stationary wall, that demonstrates strength. Throwing a 16 pound shot takes power.

Powerlifters are strong. Olympic lifters are powerful.

This is 101 level stuff.

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...rgy/u5l1e.html

[GM54]

shape = genetics

density comes with time i personally think

[Tyciol]

No, this does not affect muscle shape. Your friend is misled.

Lifting fast lets momentum created in strong parts of the movement help carry you through weak sticking points in your movement. That's all well and good, but I think it's ignoring a weakness and potential growth stimulous. Power/acceleration work has its place, but calling it most effective never made sense to me, it's based on outdated understandings of physics that don't include gravity's acceleration into the force equation and basically are just examining inertia which is almost a non-factor in weightlifting really.

Lifting slowly still recruits fast-twitch muscle fibres. The tempo has nothing to do with the speed. Fast-twitch fibres are high force. They're called fast because they fail on you fast. In exchange, they're way stronger. High weight = high force.

[scorp508]

Lifting faster requires a greater force for a given weight. A greater force generally requires more muscle recruitment. I would generally lift as forcefully as I could (not counting warmups), whether or not the rep is fast depends on the weight chosen.

++

My light bench sets are kind of funny to watch with the method the trainer has me doing now. I pause for roughly one second at the bottom, then explode up to the point where my shoulder blades come off of the bench slightly. At that point the weight is lowered slowly under control, pause a second and repeat. The last rep is usually paused for 5-8 seconds, depending on how much my trainer is pushing me that day. Obviously the later sets don't get quite as good of an explosion, but I still try. This greatly aids the heavier sets as you've still been training the muscles hard even on a light day to give all they can.

It sounds ugly as ****, but the arms/shoulders are in total control and the weight never wanders around, just up... down...pause... up...down...pause. It took a while to get that control.