350 grams of protein seems insane to try to ingest every day...

[GeorgeM]

Hi, I have been trying a bulking diet at 190 lbs looking to gain more muscle mass.

I have to say guys, it is insanely hard to eat that amount in food in protein, and apart from that its Expensive to buy that much protein powder to make up the slack.

Right now, I workout three times a week.

One typical day of protein eating is this:

1 cup of egg whites - 27g
2 slices of wholewheat Bread - 7
Large Coffee - 1
2 Scoops Six Star Advanced Protein w/ Skim milk - 49
1 tsp - Six Star Advanced Glutamine powder - 0
2 8 ounce chicken breasts - 84g
1/2 cup whole grain rice - 3g
1 Scoop Six Star Advanced Creatine - 0
1 Sirloin Tip Steak - 104g
1 cup frozen vegetables - 3
1/2 cup whole grain rice - 3
slice chocolate cake icing - 3
1 scoop Six Star Advanced Protein w/ water- 29
1 scoop glutamine - 0

This still leaves me at 311 grams! With a slight feeling of nausea, horrible headaches, once in a while, high pitched sounds in my ear not long after a workout, and always feeling too hot. I thought bodybuilding would make me feel better...

I have been sneezing some and I hear there is a flu going around, so this may all be an unhappy coincidence. But 350g protein still seems like a lot.

Has anyone else encountered these symptoms?

[Alex_Kap]

im at the same weight, and i eat 250 - 300 depending on workout or non-workout days, and never had any of those symptoms, not sure what that is, whether its an internal issue or its actually protein cause it sounds more of a sickness then what you are eating. as for getting 350, it can be done, wuts the meal to meal breakdown of ur food, it looks like 5 meals, counting only ur protein sources and assuming that they are in every meal. simply adding a 6th meal of cottage cheese, can add 30 g of protein, 1 extra scoop of whey can add another 25 from ur protein scale.

[martydaman]

Just add another protein shake. With skim milk thats around 30g more

[musclebound04]

I weigh 250 and ingest anywhere from 375-450g of protein a day (never less then 375). Never had a problem getting that much food in my system. And I only have 1 protein shake a day. The rest is real food.

[GeorgeM]

Thanks for the replies...

Originally Posted by musclebound04

I weigh 250 and ingest anywhere from 375-450g of protein a day (never less then 375). Never had a problem getting that much food in my system. And I only have 1 protein shake a day. The rest is real food.

Hmmm, I could be mis-calculating my intake. With the shakes... which I have in between meals. I eat three times a day. Not sure I have it in me to eat more than that.

As for the headaches and such, the symptoms are likely a flu.

[saw14]

wow, thats a ton of protein. why so much?

[musclebound04]

Originally Posted by saw14

wow, thats a ton of protein. why so much?

Well, I'm only ingesting 1.5g per pound of bodyweight (and a little extra sometimes). It really isn't that much, especially compared to the 2g per pound of bodyweight some people eat around here. IMO, 1-1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight is optimal. 2g is pushing it. And I bet most of the veteran bb'ers on these forums would agree with me.

[Alex_Kap]

[QUOTE=GeorgeM]I eat three times a day. [QUOTE]

shakes between meals does work, but 3 meals a day of solid food is nothing, people are over using supplements, they are a supplement and not a solid base of a diet, 5 solid meals and 2 shakes is fine, 3 meals and 2 shakes, is still 3 meals, i go with 6 meals and 1 shake, i think thats the best way to do it. maybe you can't actually grab some of your meals so ill understand, but things can be portable, i.e. sandwich with turkey, tuna, etc.

[GeorgeM]

Thanks Alex_kap. I was curious though what those five meals consist of on average? Are you eating one or two chicken breasts at a time? I am trying to eat more, but I have to watch my pocketbook as well. One average chicken breast is 42g or so, of protein correct? I am very new to this counting calories thing so bare with me if I am way off.

How does one eat correctly...cheaply, I guess is my main question. I have no problems getting rid of as many supplements if it is cheaper to buy the food and still get the same amount of protein.

Thanks again.

[NorBerg]

Canned tuna is fairly cheap.
The eating will become a habit, dont worry about it.
I cant picture myself eating less than 300-350g a day in proteins.
im gettin weaker just thinking about it lol

[GeorgeM]

Haha. Sounds good. I'll give it a go.

[Alex_Kap]

alright well i dont have my exact breakdown thats on my laptop, but roughly

workout days
meal 1:
oatmeal
egg whites
scoop of whey

meal 2: 133 g of tuna in a whole wheat wrap

meal 3 (pregym): turkey sandwich, 2 12 grain bread slices, 6 slices of turkey, 30 g of nuts (peanuts or almonds usually, maybe cashews)

meal 4 (postworkout): 54 protein (whey), 120 g of carbs (.5 dex/.5 malto)

meal 5: chicken and veggies

Meal 6: cottage cheese + nuts

non workout
meal 1:
oatmeal double serving
egg whites
scoop of whey

meal 2: 133 g of tuna in a whole wheat wrap

meal 3 turkey sandwich, 2 12 grain bread slices, 6 slices of turkey, 30 g of nuts (peanuts or almonds usually, maybe cashews)

meal 4 : 250 ml of skim milk 36 g of protein from whey

meal 5: chicken, sweet potato and veggies

Meal 6: cottage cheese + nuts

im just adding all the carbs back to my diet cause i was on cutting, i still have to add to meal 5 on workout days and stuff like that, but as it stands my total is roughly 3000 cals, i weight 190 lbs, 5 times a week workout, 2 days of cardio, 1X45 min walk, 1Xhockey game

as for the chicken stuff, i weight my chicken i believe 160 g is 50 g of protein thats what i eat, once a day. Trust me chicken breast in the US is filthy cheap, here in Toronto my parents pay roughly 8 buxs a kg,

[Alex_Kap]

sorry hit the enter button by accident, just noticed ur in nova scotia, so u might go through similar chicken costs, what i notice for cheap protein, nothing, tuna and turkey maybe, but thats about it, if ur low on cash then its definetly harder not to supplement.

[GeorgeM]

Ok, thank you very much. It gives me a better idea of what I am looking at as far as nutrition goes. I'll try to wait on the sales at the grocery store for their 2 for 1 chicken specials. And yes, chicken is crazy expensive up here. It does look like a manageable menu in my life.

I tried one of the calulations on http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/idssports3.htm for the "Scientific Approach to Training and Nutrition" and from their assessment this is what I got:

Here Is What You Entered:

Your Weight: 191 pounds.
Your BodyFat Percentage: 16%.
Your Lean Body Mass: 160 pounds.
Your Activity Level Is: Level 3.
Your Metabolic Rate Is: Moderate Metabolism.

According To The Calculations:

Protein Requirements

1. Each Day You Should Take In 128 Grams Of Protein.

2. That Means That You Will Be Taking In 513 Calories Per Day From Protein.

Carbohydrate Requirements

3. Each Day You Should Take In 321 Grams Of Carbohydrates.

4. That Means That You Will Be Taking In 1284 Calories Per Day From Carbohydrates.

Fat Requirements

5. Each Day You Should Take In 60 Grams Of Fat.

6. That Means That You Will Be Taking In 537 Calories Per Day From Fat.

Approximate Meal Plan

7. You Should Be Getting 2334 Calories Per Day Total.

8. If You Eat 5 Meals Per Day, Each Meal Should Consist Of:

* Calories: 467
* Protein: 26 Grams
* Carbs: 64 Grams
* Fat: 12 Grams

9. If You Eat 6 Meals Per Day, Each Meal Should Consist Of:

* Calories: 389
* Protein: 21 Grams
* Carbs: 53 Grams
* Fat: 10 Grams

Just some interesting takes on what I should strive for in my personal nutrition. Twice as much carbs does sound different then most things I read about. Although it does sound nice as far as my wallet is concerned. haha

[Alex_Kap]

personally those calculators r are reference at best and do not really tell me how to eat, or what to intake. i mean one calculator told me that i burn 4000 calories in the day because im in the gym 1 hr 40 min 5 times a week, and walk about 30 minutes good pace to school and around school. a dif calc said 2400, and another said 3300, so which is the least or most accurate i dont know. u need to feel ur body out, ull see after a bit. i mean if ur bulking the goal is clean weight, fat tests and scales will be ur friend, i check once a week, and if i gain weighted from last to this week i will keep cal intake the same, until i stop gaining from last to this week, then i will increase cals as my body has adjusted. were a bit diff cause the bf % is different so i guess that really changes a lot of how u eat. focus on ratios of 1 - 1.5 protein per lbs and about 1 - 2 carbs per lbs, and 0.25 fat per lbs it should come out to a ratio of 50 carb/30 protein/20 fat for ur total calorie intake, it varies with everyone but thats a fairly common breakdown

[GeorgeM]

My hat's off to you Alex_Kap. Days of research and experimenting have been summed up in one post. I appreciate the help. I was doing 40 pro - 30 carb - 30 fat the past week and a half and wound up increasing my body fat percentage to 16% from 13%. It seems to gravitate to my stomache as usual. haha

Anyhow, I will increase the carbs and be more conservative with the protein.

[Alex_Kap]

np glad to help

[BlueBayou]

Originally Posted by GeorgeM

My hat's off to you Alex_Kap. Days of research and experimenting have been summed up in one post. I appreciate the help. I was doing 40 pro - 30 carb - 30 fat the past week and a half and wound up increasing my body fat percentage to 16% from 13%. It seems to gravitate to my stomache as usual. haha

Anyhow, I will increase the carbs and be more conservative with the protein.

Be careful with that! If you cut the protein too much, you will reduce the amount of muscle you can put on. Dont EVER believe anyone who tells you that you can build a lot of muscle with less protein. I used to believe that as well. That was my biggest mistake. I know better now. You can't. A ratio of 40/40/20 has been proven optimal over and over again. Shoot for that ratio and adjust your total calories up and down as needed.

"Each Day You Should Take In 128 Grams Of Protein."
--> LOLOLOL ROTFLMAO

[Andrew69]

Originally Posted by GeorgeM

My hat's off to you Alex_Kap. Days of research and experimenting have been summed up in one post. I appreciate the help. I was doing 40 pro - 30 carb - 30 fat the past week and a half and wound up increasing my body fat percentage to 16% from 13%. It seems to gravitate to my stomache as usual. haha

Anyhow, I will increase the carbs and be more conservative with the protein.

George,
Try and keep your meals either pro/carb or pro/fat.
I know that if I mix carbs and fat it goes straight to my waistline.

[thajeepster]

your in the gym 1hr 40 mins 5 days a week !!!!!!!!??!?!!??? are you on gear? You could possibly be overtraining. Thats probably why you are getting sick, what is your routine like?

[Steve_W]

Originally Posted by Andrew69

George,
Try and keep your meals either pro/carb or pro/fat.
I know that if I mix carbs and fat it goes straight to my waistline.

Sorry mate, but no! no! no! no!

[Alex_Kap]

Originally Posted by thajeepster

your in the gym 1hr 40 mins 5 days a week !!!!!!!!??!?!!??? are you on gear? You could possibly be overtraining. Thats probably why you are getting sick, what is your routine like?

no not on gear, no not overtraining, and i havent been sick in about 2 yrs *knock on wood*, but as for the rest of ur comments to george, like i told him sticking to a ratio is most optimal 40/40/20 is usually wut ppl do with cutting, u cant tell me that bulking diets say take in equal carbs and protein, and protein should be at the 1 to 1.5 g per lbs of body weight

[BlueBayou]

40/40/20 is good for bulking, as well as cutting. The only difference is the TOTAL calorie count. So you think that when bulking you only up the carbs? Thats a really good way to bulk up your bodyfat %! And only 1-1.5 grams per lb per day of protein will severly limit the ability of muscle he is putting on. The optimal protein amt for bulking is closer to 2 grams per lb per day naturally and 2.5-3 on steroids. You will not see any guy who has put on a large amount of muscle w/o the high protein amount.

I used to think just like that and couldnt gain much. Someone had to drill it through my head that I needed more proetin. Finally I did, and guess what? From years of hardwork with only modest gains, to only months more with substantial gains like I was on steroids!

But you don't have to believe me. Go ask any guy who has put on a lot of muscle through BB'ing. Not just guys who SAY theyve gained substantially ( like the E-hulks-without-pics you will find online), but the ones you know that have- like those with pics to prove it etc. You will not find any that arent eating large amounts of protein, and considerably higher amounts than those suggested above.

DO NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN PUT ON LARGE AMOUNTS OF MUSCLE WITHOUT LARGE AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN!

[GeorgeM]

Ok, protein is definitely needed. Where is the line you cross from bulking to cutting? At the moment I am 6'0 189lbs with what the "The U.S. Navy Circumference Method" for measuring body fat is telling me, as well FitTogether.net is that I have 20%.

This sucks as my biceps are no where near where I think they should be...13" relaxed ...but its hard if my waist size is passing my hip size.. 36.5":35". Thankfully my shoulders are 49" so I don't look too bad if I suck in my belly. haha

So at 20% body fat, I should really start cutting...and hope the fat turns into muscle. OR keep bulking but to more intense workouts, maybe four times a week instead of three. I want to be at about 175lb and about 9% body fat. With strong definition of muscle. Thats my goal. I think this will be an acheivable goal once I settle on a diet.

Thanks to everyone for their input by the way. I am reading a lot of articles into the night and trying to educate myself more and more without confusing myself too badly.

[BlueBayou]

Ok, if youre at 20% BF, its best to cut first. Up the cardio and reduce the total calories. Try not to go below 40% protein while cutting. I would say you are going to need to be in the 1800-2400 calorie range for cutting. I would start in the 21-2200 calorie range and see if your losing fat. You don't want to lose too fast or too slow. About a % or 2% reduction in BF every few weeks. Keeping the protein up while cutting helps maintain muscle mass while reducing fat moreso than a higher carb/lower protein low-calorie cutting diet. Its probably best not to start a bulking diet until you have gotten your BF% down to at least 13-14%. So - heavy lifting + more cardio + less total calories. I wouldnt try a bulking diet at that BF %. Look up HIIT if you don't know what that is. It may interest you.

Also, dont get discouraged. Remember that alternating cutting and bulking are much more efficient in reaching your final goals than maintenance diets for most people. It will take a lot longer, and your long-term results will not be as extreme, using a middle-ground maintenance diet than the alternating method.

[xxx_vic]

I eat 450 g protein but its around the clock..

[Alex_Kap]

Well George M with those stats I would def consider cutting, personally I dont like to get above 15% bf, so I will cut till around 8% and bulk until I hit a max of 15%, which is what I am doing at the moment. If you are trying to cut, again I would say drop cals by 250 one week, weight urself week to week, u should be dropping weight, once u stop, drop again, all u really need for a good cut is about 500 cals less then u burn, but its hard to calculate that. when i cut i go with carb cycling, of high med and low, low would be 50, med 120 and high 200, high i do 3 times a week, then low 2 times a week and med 2 times, high i would do during my most intense workout days. Add cardio but nothing overly killer cause if u go too intense ur body will eat muscle rather than fat. I try for about 45 min walk 4 mph, and 3 incline every day, if i could do it twice i would. ppl don't like cardio in the morning, but for me it works so i go for about 15 of HIIT outside, again this was in the summer, u can do it on the treadmill too. As for diet 40/40/20 is pretty good, i like carb cycling so it will change day to day, but give different things a try and feel ur body out.

[404gb30044]

i feel great when getting my target 300-400g protein. feel like **** when i dont. big boys, lift big weight. bulking till end of jan- mid feb. cutting feb-june or so. made mistake of cutting too late last year and didn't get down to 187 10% bf unill end of aug. good luck all those bulkers out there.

[maxiw]

Originally Posted by GeorgeM

This still leaves me at 311 grams! With a slight feeling of nausea, horrible headaches, once in a while, high pitched sounds in my ear not long after a workout, and always feeling too hot. I thought bodybuilding would make me feel better...

I have been sneezing some and I hear there is a flu going around, so this may all be an unhappy coincidence. But 350g protein still seems like a lot.

Has anyone else encountered these symptoms?

I've had the flu-like symptoms twice. I know it was from overtraining because I had pushed myself on each occasion a lot harder than usual. The first time the symptoms lasted for almost a week, the second for only one day with a lot of extra sleep. It felt like a head cold with blocked up ears and the sounds you describe.

If you feel you're overeating and it's making you ill then it's not worth your while. Don't worry too much about protein quotas; I don't and I don't think I eat more than 150lbs per day but I still gain lean mass. If you're in hurry to grow then that's a different matter.

[Andrew69]

Originally Posted by Steve_W

Sorry mate, but no! no! no! no!

For me, yes! yes! yes!
I dont mean being full on obsessed with it, but in general.