Do you believe in evolution?

[Arlecchino]

You can write, but can you read? Did you read my post after the first sentence? lol

Yes, I did. And I simply used your statement about 'proven' to address something that was occuring throughout the thread. And in your third sentence, you state that 't isn't as well proven as a lot of people think still.'

Did you read your post after the first sentence?

And of course there is a lot of fill-in-the-blanks, as the field of evolutionary biology is incredbily complex, and in the short time it has been a credible field of study, we have made amazing strides, however, in approximately 150 years it would be nothing less than miraculous to be able to chart millions of years of evolution.

[Melkor]

Yes, I did. And I simply used your statement about 'proven' to address something that was occuring throughout the thread. And in your third sentence, you state that 't isn't as well proven as a lot of people think still.'

Did you read your post after the first sentence?

And of course there is a lot of fill-in-the-blanks, as the field of evolutionary biology is incredbily complex, and in the short time it has been a credible field of study, we have made amazing strides, however, in approximately 150 years it would be nothing less than miraculous to be able to chart millions of years of evolution.

So you agree with me then that it hasn't been proven as much as many people seem to think.

[The_Big_E]

Yeah, that is probably true that people expect it traced to the first one cell critter to ooze onto land, but I just want some evidence that the eyeball evolved from something, things like that. There are never any intermediate steps found for so many things. It is still missing so much information that it just can't be called "proven" yet imo (not that I'm an evolution expect). Again, I'm not arguing it HASN'T or doesn't happen, I'm just suggesting that it hasn't been proven.

Well you are correct there. I mean other than the close genetic make up and some key similarities there is still the "Missing Link" between us and primates. That is why I think some of the mystery creatures fascinate us.

There are scientist that whole heartedly beleive if Bigfoot were real then it IS the missing link. I just find it hard to believe IF that creature exists it hasn't been found yet... but then again new species are discovered everyday so who really knows?

[Arlecchino]

Yeah, that is probably true that people expect it traced to the first one cell critter to ooze onto land, but I just want some evidence that the eyeball evolved from something, things like that. There are never any intermediate steps found for so many things. It is still missing so much information that it just can't be called "proven" yet imo (not that I'm an evolution expect). Again, I'm not arguing it HASN'T or doesn't happen, I'm just suggesting that it hasn't been proven.

Primitive versions of the eyeball would be simple photoreceptors or other light sensing organs. Even today we have examples of poorly evolved vision systems in humans, such as those born with extremely poor vision, or color-blindness, etc.

Other examples of the evolution of the visionary process would include bioluminescent fish and insects that also tend to have pigments that are adapted for maximal sensitivity to the wavelengths of light emitted by their photophores (the molecules responsible for the emission of light e.g. from the abdomens of fireflies). So they are able to see more by the light they actually generate, which is a clear indicator of a survival mechanism.

[Melkor]

There are lizards that have a third "eye" under the skin in their heads, but it in no way could be argued to be a precursor to the true eyeball. What would the intermediate steps be? Those are the types of questions I want answers to. I know it offends people to think that not everyone has jumped on board with it 100%, but there needs to be more evidence and more detail and more study done before evolution can be considered "proven".

[Arlecchino]

So you agree with me then that it hasn't been proven as much as many people seem to think.

A scientific theory is never proven. Where do you get this from?

Using my previous examples of the theory of electron transfer, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of gravity, I will point out to you that they have not been proven. They are simple the best theories we can come up with to describe the observable and measurable events and make logical predictions about what will occur in similar chains of events.

If, however, the fact that a theory is not proven invalidates it for you, you may test any of the above theories by sticking your finger in a light socket, swapping needles with an unwashed crack-whore, and then jumping off of a cliff. I say this because none of these theories have been proven.

Do you understand my point about proof yet?

[Arlecchino]

There are lizards that have a third "eye" under the skin in their heads, but it in no way could be argued to be a precursor to the true eyeball. What would the intermediate steps be? Those are the types of questions I want answers to. I know it offends people to think that not everyone has jumped on board with it 100%, but there needs to be more evidence and more detail and more study done before evolution can be considered "proven".

Evolution will never be considered proven.

Stop with the straw man arguments.

If you will drop that sort of crap, I will actually attempt to outline the steps of the evolution of the eye for you, but it will take a while.

[Melkor]

A scientific theory is never proven. Where do you get this from?

Using my previous examples of the theory of electron transfer, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of gravity, I will point out to you that they have not been proven. They are simple the best theories we can come up with to describe the observable and measurable events and make logical predictions about what will occur in similar chains of events.

If, however, the fact that a theory is not proven invalidates it for you, you may test any of the above theories by sticking your finger in a light socket, swapping needles with an unwashed crack-whore, and then jumping off of a cliff. I say this because none of these theories have been proven.

Do you understand my point about proof yet?

Why does it bother you so badly when I suggest it isn't proven? Calm down guy. You're suggesting I kill myself because I don't think evolution is as proven as gravity?

[The_Big_E]

Why does it bother you so badly when I suggest it isn't proven? Calm down guy. You're suggesting I kill myself because I don't think evolution is as proven as gravity?

Actually, bro... what he is saying is that like Evolution the theory of Gravity is not "proven" but we all know if we jump off of a building then something pulls us down and we go splat.

Somethings will never be "proven" but will always be "accepted."

[Melkor]

Actually, bro... what he is saying is that like Evolution the theory of Gravity is not "proven" but we all know if we jump off of a building then something pulls us down and we go splat.

Somethings will never be "proven" but will always be "accepted."

I said right in my first post that I accepted evolution is very likely true, but there are many pieces missing from the puzzle.

[Arlecchino]

Why does it bother you so badly when I suggest it isn't proven? Calm down guy. You're suggesting I kill myself because I don't think evolution is as proven as gravity?

No, I am trying to get you to understand that the term proven does not apply. And since you missed it the first couple of times, I was exaggerating for the sake of emphasis.

It does not bother me, I am trying to respond to your question, and you keep re-stating the same wrong comment about evolution not being proven, which has absolutely no effect on the validity of the theory. No matter how many times you state that it is not 'proven' it will still be an argument that does not apply.

[The_Big_E]

I said right in my first post that I accepted evolution is very likely true, but there are many pieces missing from the puzzle.

I know, just trying to reword his message in a slightly less harsh tone.

[coast2coast]

DAMN IT I MEANT TO VOTE YES... Oh well.
Yes I believe in it

[Arlecchino]

Actually, bro... what he is saying is that like Evolution the theory of Gravity is not "proven" but we all know if we jump off of a building then something pulls us down and we go splat.

Somethings will never be "proven" but will always be "accepted."

Thank you. Valid scientific theory is just that: theory that has been validated through numerous trials and observations.

Proof is not the actual realm of science, but is easily in the realm of pure theory, such as a geometrical proof, which we can display, but never actually achieve in the real world.

Unless, of course, someone knows how to draw a truly perfect circle, etc. Even here, there will be minor errors in measurement and such that make the reality different from the theory.

[Arlecchino]

I said right in my first post that I accepted evolution is very likely true, but there are many pieces missing from the puzzle.

Yes, but you kept going on about it not being 'proven' as if that in some way undermined its position as valid scientific theory, which it does not. In at least two more posts after the first post where you stated you accepted it.

[Melkor]

Thank you. Valid scientific theory is just that: theory that has been validated through numerous trials and observations.

Proof is not the actual realm of science, but is easily in the realm of pure theory, such as a geometrical proof, which we can display, but never actually achieve in the real world.

Unless, of course, someone knows how to draw a truly perfect circle, etc. Even here, there will be minor errors in measurement and such that make the reality different from the theory.

Please click here

[Melkor]

Yes, but you kept going on about it not being 'proven' as if that in some way undermined its position as valid scientific theory, which it does not. In at least two more posts after the first post where you stated you accepted it.

You are imagining things. I said that there are pieces missing, and that there needs to be more proof before it is fully proven. You are just looking for someplace to start a fight I think. I never once said that it wasn't a valid theory.

[aeons]

It seems a lot of you people don't realize the difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

[DTRG]

read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins

[Arlecchino]

You are imagining things. I said that there are pieces missing, and that there needs to be more proof before it is fully proven. You are just looking for someplace to start a fight I think. I never once said that it wasn't a valid theory.

Where am I imagining things? You are the one who kept going on about it not being 'proven'.

And again you have stated that there needs to be more 'proof' before it is 'proven'. Why do you refuse to accept that valid scientific theory will never be proven? I am not trying to start a fight, I just fail to understand how you can not see this. And I am serious.

[Arlecchino]

It seems a lot of you people don't realize the difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

Agreed.

read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins

Read it. Great book. Also really liked The Blind Watchmaker as well as The Devil's Chaplin.

[whattheschmidt]

real poll count is about

Yes 150

No 25

[catmando]

WHat!?! How can you not believe in the big bang...their is so much evidence!

Please voice your reasons...i'm curious

How can 150,000,000,000 galaxies worth of matter come from a point no bigger than an atom? When scientists can answer that question I will accept the Big Bang. They haven't yet.

[catmando]

No, they are on an agenda because... well they are on an agenda. It's not hard to see who IS on an agenda. I mean really if you CAN't spot that then you are about 10 steps behind the 8 Ball.

I mean really, ask yourself why the only scientists saying it IS man made are the ones on a big payroll and the ones saying it ISN'T man made are doing independant analysis. If that doesn't clarify the issue... you will never get it.

You have it all backwards.

[The_Big_E]

You have it all backwards.

Really? How so?

You think an independant study, one conducted out of genuine interest and passion for the subject is more likely to skew the data toward one finding over another than a paid scientist working for a company with a vested interest in the outcome being in line with their company policy and advertising?

[JAGERBOY]

LOL. Wow. So people in this thread deny evolution because its not a "fact" and its just a "theory"...yet they believe that us just randomly popping up is fact....and that God making us randomly pop up is fact...none of which have ANY evidence to support them. I don't get how you can be so blinded by religion to sincerely believe that.

Scientist: "So we have a mountain of evidence supporting evolution, take a look. Do you believe in it Timmy BB.comMember?"

Timmy BB.comMember: "LULZ, yas right, I dont believes we jus came from da oozes and da monkeys, dats impossible!!11 Epic pHail!!1 Ron Paul111!!11"

Scientist: "Okkk. But you believe some all powerful being just randomly popped up from no where created us fully formed??? Do you have any evidence??"

Timmy BB.comMember: "Yeah!! Datz way more teh plausibles!!! And wutz evideenzce??!?!?"

Scientist: "Wow, didn't think you would even know what plausible meant. Carry on."

Powerman2000: "x2!!! "

Scientist: "WTF? "

[jf1]

evolutionary theory is the ONLY plausible explanation!
there is NO alternative!

biblical creationism is a mythological fairy tale...nothing more!

[Poppa Pump]

I think it's strange that some people feel that evolution hasn't been proven ENOUGH so they believe in creationism. As if that has more proof! It's really backwards to me. And I dont know if this video was posted somewhere in the thread, but take a look at it. In my opinion if you dont believe in evolution it's just because you didn't research it enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk&eurl=

[powerman2000]

To a degree, I'm a Christian as well but I don't deny evolution completely.

Yep.

[aznbladez]

Of Course It May Take A Long Long Time To Notice But Its There