Concerning lower back injury...

Dark Prowler · 12-28-2007, 04:26 PM

The last time I went to the gym, which was around 6 months ago, I injured my lower back while deadlifting, and it still hasn't gotten any better. I didn't think it was serious at first, as I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary, but am now getting a little worried, and of course, haven't been able to resume weight training since.

I'm unable to bend over without being in a lot of pain - for example, when picking anything up off the floor, I now need to squat with a straight back in order to even get that low. I sometimes even get referred pain from my lower back to other body parts, such as my hip, or sides, making me think I have problems with other body parts, when I don't. Any suggestions as to what I might have done to myself?

DP.

ben3133 · 12-28-2007, 04:30 PM

Can you be specific about where you get the referred pain, and the nature of the referred pain? Does it feel muscular, or more like a shooting pain?

How you injured your back is also important. Do you remember what it felt like?

Considering how long the pain has been present, there are two explanations. One is that it is only muscular and because you haven't undertaken therapy the problem has remained. The other, which can be quite a common injury when deadlifting, is that you have caused bulging or herniation of one of your spinal discs. If you can answer those first few questions I gave maybe I/others can help narrow it down for you.

Bondi · 12-28-2007, 04:41 PM

Lots of people get injuries from training improperly. Here is some advice I have given to others because it's the same everytime.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post107256281

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post101873001

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=14

Dark Prowler · 12-28-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben3133

Can you be specific about where you get the referred pain, and the nature of the referred pain? Does it feel muscular, or more like a shooting pain?

Sure - The referred pain is both shooting and dull, and comes in waves, but it doesn't feel like the type of pain I'd personally associate with "muscular" pain, i.e. what you’d feel a couple days after a workout - It feels different than that. I get the referred pain in my hips, in-between my rib-cage and hips, *inside* my thighs, down the outer side of my thighs, and even my groin on occasion. The pain directly in my lower back is a constant dull pain, until I bend over, and then it becomes sharp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben3133

How you injured your back is also important. Do you remember what it felt like?

At the time of deadlifting, I didn't feel anything "happen", as such. The pain came on afterwards, as you'd expect it to after any workout, so I didn't think anything of it at the time. Since then, it's gotten progressively worse, and no longer feels like post-workout muscular micro-tears.

DP.

Bondi · 12-28-2007, 05:07 PM

Yeah, it stems from the disc. And it's going into your abdominal area.

All the posts links that I gave you are applicable here. Pity you are so young.

Still there are many people who train and have this type of injury, it means that you should seek proper instruction and medical help, I am sure it isn't the most comfortable type of pain.

Your pain locations give me the impression that your injury is higher up at the L2, L3 area because this is (groin area) and by hip (I guess you mean buttock).

You have most likely be rounding your lower back, so stop this immediately.

What can you train, well no axial loading like squats or deadlifts. You can do leg presses and most of the pressure is on the pelvis. Most upperbody exercises should be fine. And start to develop some "core" strength.

Dark Prowler · 12-28-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

and by hip (I guess you mean buttock).

I do mean my hips... Well, actually just below my hips, sorry. I don't get any pain in my buttocks, as such, or if I do, it isn't as apparent as the other pains. But I do get pain in either the sacral or coccygeal regions of my back as well as the lumbar region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

You have most likely be rounding your lower back, so stop this immediately.

I used to perform deadlifts side-on to a mirror to check my form, and always made sure it was impeccable... I guess I just must have slipped up at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

What can you train, well no axial loading like squats or deadlifts. You can do leg presses and most of the pressure is on the pelvis. Most upperbody exercises should be fine. And start to develop some "core" strength.

I guess that rules out military presses and overhead dumbbell presses, too. Lateral raises put quite a bit of stress on my lower back, too. Wow, this really is quite a kick in the nuts.

DP.

Fresch · 12-28-2007, 07:26 PM

Assessment
Investigation
Diagnosis
Management

Perhaps you need to start at step1?

Dark Prowler · 12-28-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fresch

Assessment
Investigation
Diagnosis
Management

Perhaps you need to start at step1?

Yup - I'll be booking myself into the Doctor's on Monday, if possible.

DP.

Bondi · 12-28-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Prowler

I do mean my hips... Well, actually just below my hips, sorry. I don't get any pain in my buttocks, as such, or if I do, it isn't as apparent as the other pains. But I do get pain in either the sacral or coccygeal regions of my back as well as the lumbar region.

I guess that rules out military presses and overhead dumbbell presses, too. Lateral raises put quite a bit of stress on my lower back, too. Wow, this really is quite a kick in the nuts.

DP.

Yes this is consistant with what has been said so far. Nerve innervation is on 'L3' in this area.

Kick in the pants, well, later on you might be able to add some axial loading but you want to know the damage that you may have sustained. Placing increased loads on a suspected disc injury just isn't sensible at all.

Curious to know the results of an MRI or CT?

P.S. Oh yeah, see a sport medicine doctor preferrably rather than a GP, they have a much better understanding and will know which specialist may be better ones, if you do need to see one. 6 months is a long time to have had such a sustained problem...

Dark Prowler · 12-30-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

later on you might be able to add some axial loading but you want to know the damage that you may have sustained. Placing increased loads on a suspected disc injury just isn't sensible at all.

Should I be laying off all weight-lifting exercises at the moment? Or just the axial loaded ones? I was beginning to write a new training programme especially suited to my current condition, but am not sure whether I should go ahead with it yet or not. Want me to run it by you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

Curious to know the results of an MRI or CT?

I'll keep everyone updated on the situation. I'm going to try and get an appointment with the Doctor tomorrow. Don't know any sports Doctors, so will have to go to my GP and ask to be referred, if necessary.

DP.

Fresch · 12-30-2007, 10:52 PM

Until you have a clear diagnosis, it is hard to tell you what things to do and not to do.

Bondi · 12-31-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fresch

Until you have a clear diagnosis, it is hard to tell you what things to do and not to do.

Hey champ (Fresch), let's meet up sometime, you're a physio in Sydney right? I live in Bondi, where do you practice?

For the Dark,
Until you get your scan you should suspect L3 problems. So that's no axial loading, no lumbar flexion whatsoever. And anything that you feel loads up your spine uncomfortably.
See how you go with upper-body....

A good book is Ultimate Back Fitness, by Stuart McGill.

Dark Prowler · 01-01-2008, 04:06 PM

OK, went to the Doctor's yesterday, and told him everything I mentioned here, but he didn't think it was anything to be concerned about (typical GP!). He said I could go and have an x-ray, if I wanted (but didn't recommend it due to the amount of radiation it would subject me to), and suggested I went to get some physiotherapy. Anyway, I *have* been referred, so we'll see where this goes...

DP.

muscleman420 · 01-01-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondi

Lots of people get injuries from training improperly. Here is some advice I have given to others because it's the same everytime.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post107256281

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post101873001

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=14

u like a back specialist or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Prowler

OK, went to the Doctor's yesterday, and told him everything I mentioned here, but he didn't think it was anything to be concerned about (typical GP!). He said I could go and have an x-ray, if I wanted (but didn't recommend it due to the amount of radiation it would subject me to), and suggested I went to get some physiotherapy. Anyway, I *have* been referred, so we'll see where this goes...

DP.

he refer u to a specialist? thats what he should do.

Bondi · 01-02-2008, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscleman420

u like a back specialist or something?

Not a doctor, but is there any issue with what I've said?

I can explain it to you if you'd like? And you are?

As for seeing a specialist, yeah, doctors are reluctant to do that sometimes. Often when they do a scan, it's good to let you know what you have.
Inevitably once you know all they can do to help is operate, sometimes in certain situations they do cortisone. But most of the time they'll tell you to stop doing what has hurt it, and they mean lay off the heavy weights (esp. things that load the spine ie. axial loading and flexion).

See an operation is the last option but that's what orthopods do (type of specialist that you should see) . They expect by the time you've seen them that you've exhausted all other avenues including physiotherapy. If the pain is debilitating, then they may do a scan (it's expensive, so they have to also justify the cost), which if there is sufficient damage and pressure on the nerve, they might consider an operation.

Your doctor is just taking a conservative approach, this is normal. Don't know if your doc is any good but if your pain is persistent then he'll send you to a specialist but your young and if you have damaged a disc, he's probably hoping it's small and that it'll scar up, then the pain will go away.

Dark Prowler · 09-15-2008, 09:01 PM

Hey guys,

Just a quick update...

I managed to get referred to the rheumatology department of one of London's best hospitals earlier this year. The rheumatologist examined me and requested an MRI scan, which ended up revealing TWO prolapsed discs in my lower back (forget which ones exactly). They've told me I'm not enough of a candidate for surgery, but advised I have an epidural injection of Cortisone (I think was mentioned), with the idea behind it being that it will reduce the inflammation of the herniated discs and in theory allow them to pop back to where they once were before...

I haven't been told if I'll ever be able to lift weights again, but apparently cardio is an absolute must after such a procedure.

DP.

Dark Prowler · 09-17-2008, 08:18 PM

Bump for anyone who's interested.

DP.

Fresch · 09-18-2008, 01:48 AM

That sucks! But it does explain the persisti8ng problems! Your GP must look a bit foolish now.

As always, perhaps some McKenzie exercises and some core work..plus the cardio as mentioned.

Dark Prowler · 09-22-2008, 08:26 PM

I'll see what I can do after I've had this injection. I've been told it's not Cortisone, by the way, but a different, "more effective" steroid... Forget the name, though.

Anyway, I've gone and bought myself a nice cross-trainer, as I haven't managed to work out properly for over a year now, and as a result, have ended up accumulating a LOT of unwanted body-fat (especially around the mid-section), which is actually making my situation a lot more worse than it should be.

DP.