Cut or bulk first? (pics) And help me with other aspects as well (plz read)

[X-Zit]

First of all--let me say my pics are pretty ****ty.
And sorry about the flash in the first picture!! lol

I've made improvments then how I was in the past.
In the past I weighed rougly 225lbs+ at 16 yrs old, no idea what my body fat % was--but I know it was high and I was considered "obese" by the books, if anything I was defintly in the high weight of being overweight.



Anyhow now to the point...
Attached are a couple of pics of me.
I've always struggled with my personal image through litarly sweat, blood and tears.

I've never felt good looking--my dating life is non-exsistant, and I haven't been laid in about 3+ years now.
But thats not important (and secondary to me going to the gym and school).


Please help me decide to bulk or cut.
Becuase right now I feel I can go either way-I can cut, or I can bulk, and I'm really really torn between which way to go---and as a result, I'm not really making any gains (or really loosing fat)...
I honestly don't feel good about myself-I feel defitiant, I guess ugly.


I have no eating disorder, and I'm always trying to work on my body image, and my own self body image through forcing myself to belive/think I look good e.t.c.
Its hard for me yes. But I keep on going through it--pushing the ****ing weight, shoving it hard, really hoping and praying that I will make some gains (or lose some fat)...and despite my hard efforts in the gym, I still feel sad after I leave the gym becuase I'm constantly comparing myself to "Better looking" guys....



Anyhow please give me suggestions (besides consulers--that **** doesn't work for me--I'm honestly working on my emotional thing myself).
But please give me suggestions/input on excersizes, if I should bulk or cut or w/e.
I'm torn between which way I should go--becuase after all, whatever way I go will deterimine what excersizes I do, and how often I do cardio.




Heres my concerns (and automatic thoughts).
I feel that if I decide to bulk I will become a even fatter ****, and will only see gains in my stomach region lol

I feel that if I decide to cut, I will lose all the muscle mass that I do have, and I will look small as hell with no definition on my body at all...




Please help guys. Please no flaming, I really do need help...
Help with routine suggestions, comments, anything positive and uplifting--anything that will help motivate me.




Thanks!!!
--Pz

[X-Zit]

noone yet?

lol
pz

[X-Zit]

Oh ya-forgot to mention my specs:
Age-21
Height-6' 3"
Weight-190lbs (86.36kg)


pz

[m27]

cut first, you look like you have some decent mass there. when you drop some fat, people will start noticing and it will boost your confidence and make you want to continue.

if you bulk now, most people are just going to think "gee he's really let himself go" until the muscle gains actually start to surface.

[m27]

as for your compulsive comparisons to others... whenever I do that (not just in terms of my body, but anything) I remember that there are over 6 billion people on the planet and only one is TRULY the one with the best body. so unless you are that person, there will always be someone to comparatively make you feel bad about yourself.

[Blackout]

cut first, you look like you have some decent mass there. when you drop some fat, people will start noticing and it will boost your confidence and make you want to continue.

if you bulk now, most people are just going to think "gee he's really let himself go" until the muscle gains actually start to surface.

Decent mass?

If you want to put on muscle, do that. You can put on muscle without getting fat. The choice is not:
A. Lose fat and lose muscle, or
B. Put on muscle but become a fat ass
like many ask/think on these boards.

You can get in shape and put on muscle, that's what BB is all about. Hit the weights, eat well, do cardio, off you go.

And I do much better when I decided I do not care what other people think unless they are my boss, family, friends or girlfriend. Trust me, no one is looking at you or cares what you do.

[X-Zit]

Thx for the replys so far--

But the question still goes un answered.

Cut or bulk first?
What do the majority of you think I should do?
Becuase I personally feel I could go either way.

But if I cut--its time to up the cardio
and if I bulk--its time to increase the amout of weights/start pushing it hardcore.


Right now in my "limbo state" of trying to decide what to do-I've been doing bulking excersizes.
I'm just really debating---cut or bulk, **** I dunno--I think I could go either way easy.


pz

[RippedVanWinkle]

Thx for the replys so far--

But the question still goes un answered.

Cut or bulk first?
What do the majority of you think I should do?
Becuase I personally feel I could go either way.

But if I cut--its time to up the cardio
and if I bulk--its time to increase the amout of weights/start pushing it hardcore.


Right now in my "limbo state" of trying to decide what to do-I've been doing bulking excersizes.
I'm just really debating---cut or bulk, **** I dunno--I think I could go either way easy.


pz

Since you're in limbo state, think of it like this, what's easier for you:

Winter = Bulk
Bulk = eat alot
Bulk = lift your ass off

Cut = Cardio and/or watch diet
Cut = not fun in winter time (especially during Holidays)

You should bulk now. Because if you cut, you won't have much left on a 6'3 frame at 170-180, or whatever bf% you're looking to cut.

[X-Zit]

Since you're in limbo state, think of it like this, what's easier for you:

Winter = Bulk
Bulk = eat alot
Bulk = lift your ass off

Cut = Cardio and/or watch diet
Cut = not fun in winter time (especially during Holidays)

You should bulk now. Because if you cut, you won't have much left on a 6'3 frame at 170-180, or whatever bf% you're looking to cut.

tru
Bulking is easier for me--and I have the body type and bone structure that can grow muscles very quickly (well not really my body type--just my genetics/myself)


pz

[Blackout]

You grow muscle easily? Is this thread for real? I am being honest like you asked - and dude you have almost nothing.

IMO put on about 20 lb of muscle, then cut. You have nothing to cut. Get a good weight program, do some research, eat a clean diet and you'll be fine. You won't get fat if you do it right.

And try to get some confidence man. That 20 lb of mass will help.

[madball]

Bulk until you're 100kg. Try to add a lot of good mass, especially legs & back, those take a long time to be the width and thickness you need for a quality physique.

Then take 1 year to slowly cut down. Here, preserve your legs and back mass while adding the ripness and definition. Also work arms, abs & chest here for a decent beach look.

[X-Zit]

You grow muscle easily? Is this thread for real? I am being honest like you asked - and dude you have almost nothing.

IMO put on about 20 lb of muscle, then cut. You have nothing to cut. Get a good weight program, do some research, eat a clean diet and you'll be fine. You won't get fat if you do it right.

And try to get some confidence man. That 20 lb of mass will help.

lol ya and like your superman to
lol!

Naw--no offense taken, I understand where you are coming from. And btw--I am a lot bigger then those pictures--I'll try to get some new pics up asap that are a lot better and actually show my size, those pics where taken with a ****ty dig. camera with lowest resolution to reduce size.






Anyhow so what sorta excersizes should I do? I mean I've done my reading on here e.t.c.
but should I do each group of muscles twice a week instead of once a week? Becuase according to some sources I've read--it says to do split routines i.e. bis/tris only once a week. Will I really see gains doing bis/tris only once a week?


I really need some help here-I feel like a fat fake phony that goes to the gym for no reason.
I haven't seen chest gains at all--and my bis are getting a bit bigger, but I'm honestly not happy with what I've accomplished so far.



And btw-when I say I develop muscles quickly-I mean that I grow muscles pretty quickly. You have to remember I was considered obese-I've come a long ways from then through weight training e.t.c. So no-I didn't mean I was "huge" or "ripped" or that I can get "ripped" really fast. Becuase I'm obviously not--and obviously I need to get more muscle mass on me.

But yes---bulking is what I'll do hear...I'm just so concered I'll become a fat slob agian (automatic thoughts) this thinking actually inhibits me from probally eating during a bulking phase. I tend to eat skimpy portions, eat only 3 meals a day, and somtimes I even consider ****ing starving myself becuase I'm afraid I'll just get fat as ****.





Anyhow I just registered agian for college for next quarter, and I signed up for a weight training class on mondays and wend. in the morning (9:30-10:20am) so at least that will benifit me as well.
Becuase right now I'm not working on maxes e.t.c. and now that I'm more focused on what I'm doing, and have done tons of reading on bb.com I will have more of an idea of what to really do, and what workouts I'm missing out on. Plus the motivation of other students and the teacher will help me as well.


Becuase after all--what got me down from 225-230lbs in highschool to 190lbs was weight training with 10-15 min of running, and "10 min abs". Hopefully this college class will be like that, or at least close to.






Anyhow thanks for the advice guys. Its really really helpful. I really need any sort of encourgament I can get...
Critizism is ok as long as noone says "your a ****ing fat ass fool--don't even bother" but I know no ones like that on here lol





pz

[IRONMARK2003]

those smiley faces crack me up.

[thirsty4chicken]

I feel for you, man.

If you cut, you will look smaller, not necessarily because of loss of muscle, but simply due to the mass that the fat added. I don't know where you live, but its winter right now... there aren't many opportunities for ppl to see how defined you are.

So, I would bulk. It sounds like you really don't like the idea of gaining extra fat. Well, bulking can be done without adding too much fat. Just eat 6 meals a day (about once every 2.5 hours), superclean. Eat lots of vegtables, chicken, fish, eggs... basically lay low on carbs, especially late in the day.

Also, take some fatty acids, e.g. tonalin CLA. My bodyfat dropped by about 2 or 3% after 2 months of using that stuff.

my 2 cents.

[X-Zit]

lol ya-the smily faces are great eh? Required mad skills!! lol



Anyhow suggestions for a good workout/mass buliding workout?
WHats the keys for mass gains? I wanna become ****ing huge-and I think that I can (which is good). I just wanna get muscular as ****.


At least I signed up for weight training this quarter--so that way on mondays and wend I'll be getting in two workouts. So if its primarly a chest/back day at school, I'll workout later in the day at the gym, and hit up the bis/tris--or the back/chest agian if I didn't feel I got a good enough workout earlier in the day @ school.

[tattoo697]

man toss a coin or somthing make a choice, is it really that hard?

really... eat a clean diet low sugar carbs, veggies oatmeal, and chicken/turkey/fish ..keep the cardio down to 20 minz 3-4 times a week
and heres the big tip lift your ass off while you in the gym, word is muscle burn fat....

[madball]

dont go crazy with "what split should I do" ... "should I do rear delts on monday morning or monday evening?"

It's all about intensity. Finda way to pack these excecises into 4-5 different lifting days. Rest one full day after each 2-3 days of consecutive lifting, in the order of importance:

- Squat
- Deadlift
- Benchpress
- Wide grip pullup
- Bent-over barbell rows
- Shoulder dips
- Military Press
- Closegrip benchpress
- Barbell curls

Put 2 of the above into each of your lifting days, in some meaningful way (e.g. deadlift & bent over rows in a "back day"). The rest of each session you can fill up with small garbage excercises (that all the other idiots in the gym are doing) such as front dumbbell raises or barbell forearm curls.

The point is like the guy above said. Don't get your brain twisted with small details before you get the basics right. Lift hard, every day. Try to exhaust yourself within 45-65 minutes with the above excercises, superset them until you almost faint. Do this for 6-12 months. And if this wasn't enough keep eating a lot of chicken, steak, fish and cottage cheese until you almost puke after every meal. Stuff yourself while killing yourself in the gym, this is the key.

Then, only then (!).. think about cutting, cause then you might end up with something after the cut.

[madball]

WHats the keys for mass gains? I wanna become ****ing huge-and I think that I can (which is good). I just wanna get muscular as ****.

One of the #1 mistake people make is the following, I'm not saying this applies to you it's just a general observation:

They think there are two ways to workout in the gym. One, is to totally go crazy with heavy weights, workout all those "dangerous" excercises like deadlifts or squats, and after a few months they think they'd end up looking like Jay Cutler. "I don't wanna end up looking like a bodybuilder" is one of the biggest BS lines you hear in a gym.

So they think with a 25 rep, 20 lbs smith machine bench presses or 8lbs DB lateral raises for 30 reps they will get the beach "model" look, ripped to shreds ready for a Paris fashion show.

This will not happen. There are no "two schools" in the gym for a muscular physique. There is a right way and a wrong way. The right way is busting your ass like crazy, exhausting yourself with heavy weight resistance training and constantly striving to go up in the resistance and intensity level.

Once you see you hit a plateau in the amount of weight you can gain, then start cutting. The results will be satisfying then. Otherwise you end up with nothing and you wish you had gained more mass initially.

[tattoo697]

thats what i am talking about.....

[hxcBB]

bulk first

[X-Zit]

Thanks guys.
I defintly decided that I'm going to bulk first.
So thats at least one thing down.


So let me just get this straight then.

Heavy lifts---and keep trying to get up to the next weight jump +5/10lbs, and lower reps correct?
So e.x. 7-10 repsX3 sets.
or should I do supersetting everything? Or do everything to failure, put the weight down-and then repeat??




Hell do I even have a chance of getting big? I've never been "ripped", or imo physically pleasing--at least to myself.
I'm doubtful that I can do it--but I just keep going to the gym almost everyday, pushing the weight--hoping that something will happen, and I'll see results soon.



pz

EDIT--lol I just found a big ass bag of boneless skinless chicken breasts in the freezer. I was like--"Ahhh heeellll yaaa" lol

[X-Zit]

ate a full 6 meals today.
Good meals as well--chicken, flax, red onions, a couple protein shakes e.t.c.

Got a really good bi/tri workout in. btw--"shredded mass" by pinicale is really really nice stuff-gave me huge pumps.

I was just hitting the weights just, bam bam and bam.
Super setting the bis and tris--and still felt like I had energy after doing 4-5 differen't sets for the bis, and 4-5 sets for the tris on various excersizes.

I hit up the dips--did about 8--my tris where so ****ing wasted after the super set though, I hit up the assisted pullup machine, and you can do dips on it as well.
Set the weight on it so I wouldn't get much of a "boost" and did more dips-slightly assisted, then switched it right to assisted chinups.

Felt good.

came home, had a good protein shake with some flax.




I'll make sure to keep everyone informed about my progress.
And hopefully in the next few months here--I'll have another pic that will show noticable mass gains.


but plz--keep the advice a coming!! lol



pz

[WheyChief]

Your post-workout shake consists of fat and protein? Are you mentally challenged?

[X-Zit]

Your post-workout shake consists of fat and protein? Are you mentally challenged?

wtf are you talking about?

It was just a simple little shake with just a tbl of flax.

I mean if I was in the wrong on this move---please tell me a good suggestions for what my post workout shake SHOULD be.



and btw--upon reading your other posts--they are all negative.
So please--spare the negativity. If you have any positive things to say; its apprecatied.
Otherwise---noones really open to hearing it.




pz

[madball]

Heavy is not an aboslute term. Heavy is what is heavy for _YOU_. When I started a 75 lbs deadlift was heavy for me. Now 325 lbs is heavy for me. I aim to use weight that so I fail around rep 8-12 and can do 3-4 of these "heavy" sets excluding warm ups sets that I do in the beginning of the sessions. Once I am breathing heavy and fully warmed up there is no need to warm up anymore, it would take away from the intensity.

Supersets, heavy sets, dropsets. Doesn't really matter. Anything, mix things up. Do not let your body adjust and expect a certain routine. The point is just to exhaust yourself. Shock your body, shock your muscles. Then rest & feed them. That's all there is to it really.

Here is a quote I took from John Stone's recent workout log, this is the kind of intensity you should aim for on a consistent basis if you wish to build a lot of mass:

I added 5 pounds to my low cables rows and did 4 sets. I did almost the same number of reps as last week, too. I added 5 pounds to my weighted wide-grip pull-ups and did 4 sets of 8. Next I did deads, and they were quite a challenge: I added another 10 pounds this week, and banged out 4 sets of 8. By the time I was done with the deads, I really thought I was going to lose my 4:00 PM meal. After my deads I took 3 minutes rest and finished up my back with 4 sets of bent-over DB rows. I really wanted to stop at this point, but instead I sent my mind off to someplace where it would be much happier and did 4 sets of burnout shrugs.

[X-Zit]

^^ cool. Thx for qoute e.t.c.


ya--thats the thing.
Lift without a ego. I see lots of guys do that. Some little 16 year olds will come into my gym, act all cool and stuff--one of them will grab the 70-80lbs Dumbells and get on the dumbell bench and press them up for 3 reps with his other stupid friend aiding him on each rep. Then thats it and they put the weight away.
Sterotypical ego crap.
I'll lay on the bench and I'll do a warm up set with 40s, then hit up the 45s, then 50s--nice and slow and really making sure I target those pecs.
I don't care about how much weight I lift--as long as I can get the right form in, and lift heavy enough (for me of course) its the most effective.

and ya--I need to jump up on the dumbells agian. lol




pz

[gusto]

you did a bi/tri workout???


go to t-nation.com and read some chad waterbury articles

really, are you being serious? the first day of your bulk you did bi's and tri's???

[X-Zit]

you did a bi/tri workout???


go to t-nation.com and read some chad waterbury articles

really, are you being serious? the first day of your bulk you did bi's and tri's???

lol--no.
I did chest/back first day.
I hit up the chest/back about twice a week--becuase I feel its the muscle group(s) that need to be worked the most on me.
I'll try to hit up bis/tris twice a week to--and of course legs during the week as well.



If you have suggestions on how I should schedule my workout(s) plz tell me. I'm always open to new advice!!



Thx guys!!


pz

[gusto]

you would be well served to look at waterburys article @ t-nation.com

[X-Zit]

you would be well served to look at waterburys article @ t-nation.com

very nice stuff on there.
Thx for the link man.



pz