Working same muscle group twice weekly when 50

[warnerwh]

The reason I ask is because I just read someone recommended doing chest at least 3 times a week in this forum of us "elders". Also because an old friend just started lifting and after emailing me his routine I told him to not concentrate on same muscle twice in a week unless both workouts aren't into pain/failure.

Being my friend is fifty I figure it's unlikely to fully recouperate training a muscle twice a week. Much of the time with other exercises you are already working those muscles anyway.

There's much in this sport I don't know but thought I had a clue on the over training and I am now confused. This assumes going to failure commonly on lifts where you can. I'm concerned he's getting over enthusiastic and lives too far away for me to see his workout being done. After damaging tendons in my arm (after years and should have known better) I don't want him to get hurt early on and get discouraged.

I've not trained since 48 or six years ago so maybe my brain is confused.

Thank You

[KimberleyRN]

Hmm, I have been working each muscle group ONCE a week.

I am new... so, this is not any help at all...

I can see how it makes sense to allow the body to heal.

I will look forward to reading the comments from those that actually know what they are talking about on this!

[conisag]

See if the muscle still aches dont, if it ahs fully recovered then it is ready for round 2, then go for it, go by feel.
goodluck and merry xmas!

[freebirdmac]

I just started with a trainer 7 weeks ago. Last week we changed from a push/pull/legs routine to legs 2x a week and upper body all in one session. The leg sessions are with 2 and 3 days rest. Seems to be ok for me, so far.

[FlyingIllini]

Actually, I would go with legs once a week and upper body twice a week. However, I think once a week for everything should be fine.

[freebirdmac]

Some of us women need the extra leg work over splitting the upper body into two days. And it's not a permanent workout change. Maybe for four weeks or so.

The point is, twice a week for a muscle group is doable for us older types. Just gotta go with how your body responds.

[KimberleyRN]

See if the muscle still aches dont, if it ahs fully recovered then it is ready for round 2, then go for it, go by feel.
goodluck and merry xmas!

I like this advice. Sounds like common sense and is something I can follow easily enough!

[warnerwh]

Thank you people for the responses. I think I'm going to still recommend once a week. He sounds very enthusiastic and I've warned him a couple of times already.

There's no way I could do much of my body twice a week. After a six year layoff I got off my ass and cleaned out our spare room Saturday where a cage or some sort will go. We'll see.

Listening to my body isn't that easy sometimes. Even if you don't have lactic acid burn that doesn't mean that muscle doesn't need more recouperation time. After lifting for some time the burn becomes diminished and for a newbie to try to listen to their body imo is not a good recommendation, especially a 50 year old one. However I find it very interesting that some people can get away with it at our age and will see on this old body what may be done.

Have a Wonderful Christmas!

[Hound53]

For what it is worth I just came back after a 8 year layoff and I am doing the Rippetoe program which involves full body workouts 3 times a week. I just make sure I am getting plenty of protein and a bit of fat along with a few carbs in my diet and a lot of sleep. I ramped up with a lot of cardio and general full body stuff for about a month then went on the Rippetoe schedule 2 weeks ago. Still ramping up on the Rippetoe but I am adding weight steadily on every lift each session.

Just my 2 cents worth but I think it is not so much the workouts or the age but how you treat the body between the workouts that matters the most in recovery. I know one thing I sure don't feel much different now than I did when I was 30 and I will be hitting the double nickel next May.

[bgnb]

same as Hound above ... but my layoff was longer ...

I am doing squats, deads and bench press 3x per week ...

mind you, the weights are so low as to be laughable but
the point is as your weights and intensity increases you
will need to determine yourself how well you recover between
work-outs ...

everyone is different and following a 'routine' isn't always
going to mean you will get the same results ...

how fast you heal, your stress level, diet and sleep will
determine how often to work out ...

as will reasonable pain ...

[Baldsnake]

Lets make some assuptions since you don't tell us a whole lot:

You do not wish to compete
You wish to be athletic, trim and fit (hint of a six pack)
You want some evidence of bodybuilding to show thru your T shirt...i.e. some pecs and manly arms
You wish to extend your life
You want a youthful libido
You eat healthy, little or no alcohol, no tobacco, prefer fish/poultry over red meat, fresh veggies and fruit, no sugar or white flour, and take a multiple vit/mineral
You have a complete physical (that means a treadmill EKG) every year including skin cancer screening and have memorized your PSA, HDLs and LDLs.
You get a colon exam every 5 years
Ladies reading this...include pap smear and breast exam...right?

OK, since you are on track with all of the above, lets look at working muscle groups EVERY DAY.

I have seen productive total body workouts done 5 days a week for your age. Hit each body part every day with a warm up set then a 15-20 rep set done at about 60% of max. Each day you do a specific 80% max. on one body part to failure on a 3rd set. Monday do chest. Tuesday back. Wednesday arms. Thursday delts. Friday legs.

Lets do Monday:
15 min. treadmill
50 abb crunches
Leg extensions...warm up....20 reps
Hamstring machine....warm up....20 reps
(Friday leg day add leg presses....15+reps at max.)
Calf raises....warm up 20 reps
Lat pull downs....warm up....15 reps
Rowing machine....warm up....15 reps
Dumbell bench press....warm up....15 reps
Dumbell military press....warm up....15 reps
Dumbell trap shrugs....warm up....15 reps nice and slow
Dumbell bicep curls....warm up....15 reps
Tricept push downs.....warm up....15 reps

Remember that you do 80% of max. on dedicated days.
When the 15 reps seems too easy...up the weight.

My friend, if you do all of the above until this summer, you will be the nastiest fit cat on the ski slopes, golf course, softball field, one on one basket ball, swimming at the beach in your SPEEDO, and IN THE SACK.

Happy New Year

[Baldsnake]

Should have added since it was Monday chest day a 3rd set of dumbell presses to failure.

[JOHN GARGANI]

if you examine BALD's routine you will notice a few key things:

1. although he is working the entire body and many times a week, it is NOT overtaxing your system because there is a limited amount of sets

2. failure, also, is LIMITED to one body part only and one set only...


the concept here is that you can train bodyparts more than once a week, but, at our age and considering our objectives, there is a point of diminishing marginal utility here and it has to be recognized and respected for our bodies.

[Stenn]

The reason I ask is because I just read someone recommended doing chest at least 3 times a week in this forum of us "elders". Also because an old friend just started lifting and after emailing me his routine I told him to not concentrate on same muscle twice in a week unless both workouts aren't into pain/failure.

Being my friend is fifty I figure it's unlikely to fully recouperate training a muscle twice a week.

You've found the key yourself when you talk about being fully recouperated.

I did Rippetoe's Starting Strength workout which had me doing full-body workouts 3x a week. When I started, I couldn't lift much weight so my whole body recovered nicely between workouts. Eventualy, I was lifting much more weight and my body was not able to recover between workouts and my progress stalled. I then switched to a slightly different program. I still do full-body workouts 3x a week, but I vary the intensity of my workouts over the week. Monday is high volume day. Wednesday is lite day. Friday is heavy day. Varying the intensity this way allows my body to be fully recovered by Friday so I can set some new lifting records.

So, your friend who is hitting the same muscle twice a week may be doing just fine. In fact, he may be making faster progress than if he hit those mucles only once a week. But eventually, when the weight gets heavy enough and his body fails to to recover, he'll have to back off and try something else.

[IR45N]

One of the 3 biggest guys in the gym was commenting for specific muscle building/bodybuilding go with the dumbbells vs barbell. Similar to Baldsnake's routine posted. Even if it's not a 5 day program & even if more 'to failure' work is used, I can see 'mainly dumbbell work' is not any lesser than barbell work....both are free weights. And again, change the routine after a while.

[warnerwh]

Baldsnake's routine I really like and will forward it to my friend. As a matter of fact your assumptions are spot on except for thinking the question regarded myself.

My own personal routine will be Sunday-legs, Tuesday-back, Thursday chest/biceps/ Saturday-shoulders and triceps. Pyramids and similar to heavy failure on most every exercise. This was where I left off at 48. Workouts were heavy duty hard on the body.

Once someone is past 30 the level of GH goes down. That's why we gain a certain amount of weight on average per year. Apparently some people have more exuberant work outs than others and no doubt our recouperation ability is different.

Thank you for the help as it's making things I forgot resurface.

[BergMuscle]

I've had my best success with a split routine that works each muscle group heavily once a week. Rest and recovery become much more important once we pass the 40 mark. Remember that muscles grow when they are healing/recovering.

[Baldsnake]

This is not the routine I do every day....only when recovering from illness or surgery. What I posted is a form of circuit training. I, however, pig headedly grind out my bury me big routine, never satisfied with my mass and blind to the fact that the clock is ticking...LOUDLY. I do not reccomend it to most aging athletes as it leaves you with constant DOMS and near adreanal exhaustion. It would do me well to circuit train from here on out, yet

[Minotaur]

I've had my best success with a split routine that works each muscle group heavily once a week. Rest and recovery become much more important once we pass the 40 mark. Remember that muscles grow when they are healing/recovering.

Indeed. I do a 4 day split... legs/chest & tris/back & bis/shoulders & tris. I work tris twice a week mostly because I like it.

I can't do chest, shoulders & tris all in one session, nor can I do a major muscle group more than once in 5-7 days.

[Brother Steel]

See if the muscle still aches dont, if it ahs fully recovered then it is ready for round 2, then go for it, go by feel.
goodluck and merry xmas!

Yeah, at 17 (years old) I bet you really know how a 50 year old feels.

[IR45N]

As with anything, the only person that will know for sure is yourself. As for twice a week; I'm trying full chest one day & 72 hours later some cambered bar decline work & weighted dips for chest; no more than 3 sets each exercise & as JohnG stated elsewhere, making sure the muscle worked IS the one doing the work. We'll see how it goes for a while.

[warnerwh]

Once again the help is appreciated. This thread has provided alot of good advice not just for my beginner friend but myself.The fact that there are other people who have had long lay offs too makes me feel better. It's like I've felt guilty for years for stopping.

When I see there's people that are up to 67 who are quite accomplished this has also been motivating. As a matter of fact there's many people in these forums that are very accomplished that are older than me. Now to lose the 36" waist on my 5'4" body. I just measured myself today and how embarrassing it is to have a waist that's only 6" less than my chest. It was shocking but I knew my pants had been shrinking more than usual for some time now.

[orsum]

Sorry to jump your thread warnerwh but also being over 50 Baldsnake advice is just what I have been looking for.

Baldsnake would this be the order in which you would do this routine and what sort of rest would you take between sets if any.

orsum

Let?s do Monday:
15 min. treadmill
50 abb crunches
Leg extensions...warm up....20 reps
Hamstring machine....warm up....20 reps
(Friday leg day add leg presses....15+reps at max.)
Calf raises....warm up 20 reps
Lat pull downs....warm up....15 reps
Rowing machine....warm up....15 reps
Dumbbell bench press....warm up....15 reps
Dumbbell military press....warm up....15 reps
Dumbbell trap shrugs....warm up....15 reps nice and slow
Dumbbell bicep curls....warm up....15 reps
Triceps push downs.....warm up....15 reps

Remember that you do 80% of max. On dedicated days.
When the 15 reps seems too easy...up the weight.

[Baldsnake]

I'm sure W Does not mind. The key to success for all routines is that they are designed for your goals and the time you have alloted. You want to get the biggest bang for your dollar (Rand) as we say in the States. I quickly posted a circuit type of routine with a daily specific body part kicker because that is what most (not all) over 50 people should be doing in my opinion. Then there are those few of us who are certified crazy (I am included) and insist on building mass for mass sake, or competing. If I am still vertical at 80 I will do a side chest pose and a front double bicep every morning in the bathroom mirror.

To answer your question....I would move quickly from exercise to exercise. This will keep the heart rate up from the treadmill and abb work. We want to burn fat. And a side note....in order to not use valuable muscle/protein as an energy source we must keep our nitrogen balance positive....i.e. PROTEIN. Eat protein foods 4-5 times a day. I protein suppliment one or two meals because I am on the run putting in 60 hour weeks at work..

[orsum]

Thanks

orsum

[Brother Steel]

I wanted to add a real comment....

In Ellington Darden's, (Ph.D.) book "Living Longer Stronger" (this book is geared for those over 40yrs) he recommends training three times a week with 48 hrs rest in-between workouts. He also recommends training time should be around 30 minutes. This encompasses a total body workout that he breaks down into around 10 exercises. He also recommends all reps should take 8 seconds, four up and four down. The number of reps are from 6 to 12.

I have tried to follow this type of training but I have found that with a physically demanding job the three times a week total body workout really drains me. I have modified this into a twice a week schedule and this has worked well for me. I should add I do try to do cardio for 30 minutes each non-workout day. On workout days, I do ten minutes of pre-workout warm up of cardio.

One thing Ellington Darden stresses is the need for rest between workouts. I agree that the older one gets the greater the need to give the body time necessary for a complete recovery. It is better to take longer than needed to recover than to push oneself into a state of overtraining.

Of course, we all know that any exercise program is never complete without following a proper diet and getting enough sleep. While we cannot stop the aging process we can through strength training keep our bodies strong and healthy and continue to enjoy an active lifestyle as we get older.

I know I sort of said this but......

One should really listen to one's body for how much they should push a training schedule. People with less physically demanding jobs may be able to train three times a week with no overtraining. While those like me who use their muscles on a daily basis may have to train only twice a week. I have found that due to heavy job demands I have at times only worked out once a week. While only training twice a week may not work for some I have found that I can train harder, longer and have more strength when I get more than 48-hrs rest between training sessions.

When I was training three times a week I was always weak, tired and would give out very quickly. I had very little improvement the whole time I trained this way. Even trying a split program failed to make the gains I was hoping for. Now with a twice a week training program I am finally making the progress I have always been hoping for. If you feel you are failing to make the gains you want then cutting back to twice a week training program may be worth investigating.

All My friends have been telling me for years that I need to "slow down" I guess when it comes to bodybuilding, they have been right!

[Wildtim]

I wanted to add a real comment....

In Ellington Darden's, (Ph.D.) book "Living Longer Stronger" (this book is geared for those over 40yrs) he recommends training three times a week with 48 hrs rest in-between workouts. He also recommends training time should be around 30 minutes. This encompasses a total body workout that he breaks down into around 10 exercises. He also recommends all reps should take 8 seconds, four up and four down. The number of reps are from 6 to 12.

I have tried to follow this type of training but I have found that with a physically demanding job the three times a week total body workout really drains me. I have modified this into a twice a week schedule and this has worked well for me. I should add I do try to do cardio for 30 minutes each non-workout day. On workout days, I do ten minutes of pre-workout warm up of cardio.

While I haven't read this particular book this is the type of plan I am also on. A will admit that though I haven't lifted in years I am coming off of three
years of extremely physically demanding work that has kept my ability to recover nearly as high as it was in my youth. If I hadn't lost this job and quickly put on weight I wouldn't have had the motivation or energy to hit the gym at all. Since I did though I have never felt better or been more healthily active. I am also still gaining strength every workout adding reps or weight. As I progress in my workouts, however, and need to more specifically target each body part to improve size and strength I know I will need to cut the number of times per week down. Being born someone blessed/cursed with a fast metabolism and spending my life working hard to gain any weight fat or muscle might just slant my recovery though.

I guess it depends on how many exercises per part you do as well as how fast you recover and how far you have to go when compared to your potential. The closer you are to your best possible physique you are the harder you will have to work and the longer you will have to rest to get closer yet!

[Brother Steel]

While I haven't read this particular book this is the type of plan I am also on. A will admit that though I haven't lifted in years I am coming off of three
years of extremely physically demanding work that has kept my ability to recover nearly as high as it was in my youth. If I hadn't lost this job and quickly put on weight I wouldn't have had the motivation or energy to hit the gym at all. Since I did though I have never felt better or been more healthily active. I am also still gaining strength every workout adding reps or weight. As I progress in my workouts, however, and need to more specifically target each body part to improve size and strength I know I will need to cut the number of times per week down. Being born someone blessed/cursed with a fast metabolism and spending my life working hard to gain any weight fat or muscle might just slant my recovery though.

I guess it depends on how many exercises per part you do as well as how fast you recover and how far you have to go when compared to your potential. The closer you are to your best possible physique you are the harder you will have to work and the longer you will have to rest to get closer yet!

Wildtim,

Dr. Ellington Darden was Director of Research of Nautilus Sports/Medical Industries for 20 years. He is sort of a student of Arthur Jones (Nautilus). The Jones concept states to "Train harder, but briefer". He (Darden) has written several books one of his most well known is "High-Intensity Strength Training". He has also written "The Nautilus Bodybuilding Book".

The book I was referring to (Living Longer Stronger) was written by him when he was about 50. It is a six-week plan to get back into shape for those over 40. It is one of the very few books I have read which is aimed at people over 40 that have been wanting to get back into shape but really did not know just how to do it. I think everyone over 40 that weight trains should read it and add it to their personal library. Lots and lots of good information.

B. Steel

[egoatdoor]

In general, only intermediate or advanced trainers of any age should train a bodypart more than once a week and if so, it should be only if it is a lagging bodypart.

The principle of specialization would then say you could work that part twice a week and deemphasize one or more better developed parts.

I used a very good routine called the " X Frame" two years ago which trained the shoulders and back together twice a week. This along with leg work to hit the outside of the quads created more of an "X Frame"( wide upper body, slim waist and wide sweeping quads) for me which was the purpose of the program. Chest and arm work was kept to a minimum so energy would be used on the emphasized muscles.

The point is there needs to be a good rationale reason for doing this.

[ExCompetitor]

If you want to gain muscle at the maximum rate NEVER train 2 days in a row.No matter what training system or set/rep scheme you decide to go with try to take a day off after every workout.Do some light cardio that doesn`t tax the CNS on your rest days. Leon.