Back and forth, Glutamine for cutting only? Or benefits for bulking?

**NO-FBDY-BS** · 09-30-2002, 03:14 PM

Every thread I searched on this subject was completely 50/50 with half saying Glutamine is a waste while bulking, while the others said it was beneficial. I guess I am asking for personal experiences, not what someone has seen in an article.

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:18 PM

glutamine has it's benefits when bulking... but it is poinless to take 20-30g. like while cutting... 5g. while bulking is plenty. it increases insulin sensitivity, glycogen sythesis, hlps keep blood sugar stable, and even though it is a non-essential amino acid... it is depleted after intense exercise, so extra glutamine even while bulking has it's benefits... it just has more while cutting.

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 07:23 PM

During your cutting phase glutamine will help a lot to preserve muscle at 20 to 30 grms a day.

During your bulking phase more than 5 grms(postworkout) will be a waste IMO.

good luck.

**Spnkthru_AST** · 09-30-2002, 07:33 PM

yes yes yes take glutamine while buliking.... and cutting...
glutamine helps recovery, increases protein synthesis, raises GH levels which help with fat loss, it's a cell volumizer.

and if you are cutting why would you want to drop a supplement that points in all directions of muscle growth and fat loss, the point of cutting is to cut fat and not muscle.

take 5gram doses spread throughout the day

15-20grams should do it, depending on your budget

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:36 PM

Yes use it! a lot of it! so you can piss it out! yes!

The body will only use glutamine when its deficient, when bulking it's pretty impossible to become deficient since your eating so much. Pretty easy concept......or so I thought.

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Yes use it! a lot of it! so you can piss it out! yes!

The body will only use glutamine when its deficient, when bulking it's pretty impossible to become deficient since your eating so much. Pretty easy concept......or so I thought.

huh?

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Yes use it! a lot of it! so you can piss it out! yes!

The body will only use glutamine when its deficient, when bulking it's pretty impossible to become deficient since your eating so much. Pretty easy concept......or so I thought.

Bump!!

is it that hard to understand????????????

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

huh?

Your body produces glutamine.....it's the most abundant amino acid in the body, when bulking, its almost impossible to use all the glutamine you have in your body, so why supplement with it? Your body wont use it unless it;s out of its own, which isnt gonna happen, so you're pissing it out

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Antonio

Bump!!

is it that hard to understand????????????

I thought so bro, but you know what they say...Common sense isnt always so common.

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Your body produces glutamine.....it's the most abundant amino acid in the body, when bulking, its almost impossible to use all the glutamine you have in your body, so why supplement with it? Your body wont use it unless it;s out of its own, which isnt gonna happen, so you're pissing it out

exactly.

you won't absorbed it on a high caloric diet.

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Your body produces glutamine.....it's the most abundant amino acid in the body, when bulking, its almost impossible to use all the glutamine you have in your body, so why supplement with it? Your body wont use it unless it;s out of its own, which isnt gonna happen, so you're pissing it out

although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

Great, you spend your money on it and I'll pass....

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

But I would not use more than 5 grms while bulking.

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket

I thought so bro, but you know what they say...Common sense isnt always so common.

But it does so much for you Yellow?!?!?!??!?!

Its ashame people just don't understand the concept of a non essential amino acid. I guess people just want to spend money on expensive **** (literally).

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket

Great, you spend your money on it and I'll pass....

not a problem... but you cannot deny what I said was true... and when money is not an issue... why not?

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Bobo

But it does so much for you Yellow?!?!?!??!?!

Its ashame people just don't understand the concept of a non essential amino acid. I guess people just want to spend money on expensive **** (literally).

Theres the man, I was hoping you'd swing by and educate.....whew

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

During a bulking phase there is no way 60% of your amino pool well ever get depleted. If it does, its not a true bulking phase and your not eating enough.

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

not a problem... but you cannot deny what I said was true... and when money is not an issue... why not?

Sorry, Im a college student, cant afford to piss money away....Ill stick to liver tabs when bulking, much more beneficial.

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Antonio

But I would not use more than 5 grms while bulking.

I use a smalle tsp. probably around 2-3g. plus I get my glutamine free... although I cannot get as much as I wan't... I can only get about 300g. per month... but it's enough

**Luke530** · 09-30-2002, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Sorry, Im a college student, cant afford to piss money away....Ill stick to liver tabs when bulking, much more beneficial.

glutamine, vit c, b complex, and a multi work fine for me

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

glutamine, vit c, b complex, and a multi work fine for me

I prefer the liver tabs too. But whatever works for you is fine.

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Bobo

During a bulking phase there is no way 60% of your amino pool well ever get depleted. If it does, its not a true bulking phase and your not eating enough.

Yea, that pretty much sums it up.

And Im with Antonio, you can get b-complex, vitamin c and all your other vitamins from liver tabs, as well as aminos etc.

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Luke530

although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

Not true.

The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. RH01769@RH.DK

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

This doesn't say what the diet was but I'm sure it was not on a bulking type diet usually discussed on these boards. Just think, if it does not increase in glycogen resynthesis in a normal diet, it will do even less on a bulking diet containing numerous cals/carbs/protein.

**YellowJacket** · 09-30-2002, 08:01 PM

Bobo for president. And he even cited his work, whew, amazing.

**Antonio** · 09-30-2002, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Bobo

Not true.

The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. RH01769@RH.DK

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

This doesn't say what the diet was but I'm sure it was not on a bulking type diet usually discussed on these boards. Just think, if it does not increase in glycogen resynthesis in a normal diet, it will do even less on a bulking diet containing numerous cals/carbs/protein.

Good article.

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 08:09 PM

A little more.

Diet vs. Supplementation

Animal proteins are rich in glutamine. Therefore, athletes consuming high-protein, high-calorie diets would be the least likely to need glutamine supplementation. Athletes who would be at risk for inadequate glutamine would be those who are competing in endurance events, such as distance running and cycling, and those who do not have adequate intake of calories, carbohydrates, or protein. Glutamine is absorbed efficiently by the intestine when present in the diet.

The value of adequate glutamine in the body is undisputed. What remains unanswered is whether supplementing with glutamine will produce beneficial outcomes for athletes. There has been little research to support any beneficial claims to athletic performance.

Article by Debbi Whitcombe M.S. RD

Reference: SCAN�s Pulse, Spring 2000; Vol. 19 No. 2

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Bobo for president. And he even cited his work, whew, amazing.

For everyone that agrees with me, there is someone else who wants my head.

**John Benz** · 09-30-2002, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Luke530
although non-essential, glutamine stores can get depleted... even though your body can produce it. It speeds recovery, increases GH, insulin sensitivity, and glycogen sythesis... 5g. per day while bulking can only be beneficial.

I agree with Luke on this. I am not willing to get into a drawn out debate with BoBo, as I thoroughly understand his reasoning and agree that on paper it is inarguable. But real world results often fly in the face of logic. I can feel a recovery difference using additional glutamine while bulking. So do most all the big pros from Jay Cutler to Milos Sarcev. Please don't cry placebo effect, because even if it were, the results are the same. Peace.

**John Benz** · 09-30-2002, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Bobo
For everyone that agrees with me, there is someone else who wants my head.

Bobo,

You and YJ have my greatest respect. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one point.

**Bobo** · 09-30-2002, 08:24 PM

No prob Bro. If you feel it helps then by all means use it. We've done this before and I respect your judgement.

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