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  1. #1
    Registered User gigem's Avatar
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    military press and shoulder pain

    I used to always do behind the neck press with a barbell as part of my shoulder routine. When I read that doing behind the neck press is bad for the rotator cuff I started doin normal military press to the front instead. Since the switch both of my shoulder joints have started hurting, and I can no longer throw anything with my right arm due to the pain. I thought doing the press to the front was better for the shoulder. Anyone else have this problem?
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  2. #2
    The Phantom LiftingIsLife's Avatar
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    my guess would be that your problem might be caused by the possibility that you arent keeping your elbows pointing out to the side, but letting them float inward so your upper arms are approaching perpendicular to your torso when you are doing them in front. just a guess though. check your form.

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  3. #3
    Bigger than Darklight The Real Deal's Avatar
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    i'm curious about this too. i've had the same lingering shoulder problem and it always gets aggravated when i do a throwing motion. is it a rotator cuff injury?
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  4. #4
    Bigger than Darklight The Real Deal's Avatar
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    top, maybe BernieD knows?
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  5. #5
    Somewhat concerned One More Time's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Real Deal
    i'm curious about this too. i've had the same lingering shoulder problem and it always gets aggravated when i do a throwing motion. is it a rotator cuff injury?

    I have the same problem... My shoulder hurts during throwing and had began to hurt while lifting. I had an MRI done and had tendonitis in my shoulder causing the pain from lifting. My shoulder had in the past only hurt when throwing things. Come to find out (but the MRI was still really inconclusive) I might possibly have torn the material that keeps your shoulder ball and joint together but on the back side instead of the front. This type of injury, according to my doctor, would only cause pain when making a throwing motion.
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  6. #6
    Booyakasha UNLVmike's Avatar
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    I never bought into the BTN presses are dangerous/bad for you.

    I love them and have used them for a while, never had an injury. I wouldn't drop them.
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  7. #7
    Bigger than Darklight The Real Deal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by One More Time
    I have the same problem... My shoulder hurts during throwing and had began to hurt while lifting. I had an MRI done and had tendonitis in my shoulder causing the pain from lifting. My shoulder had in the past only hurt when throwing things. Come to find out (but the MRI was still really inconclusive) I might possibly have torn the material that keeps your shoulder ball and joint together but on the back side instead of the front. This type of injury, according to my doctor, would only cause pain when making a throwing motion.
    hmm i guess i should have it hcecked out

    did ur doctor say wat treatments were necessary to heal it? or just rest?
    is the tendonitis in addition to the tearing?
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    Bigger than Darklight The Real Deal's Avatar
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    o yah and did he say wat could have caused the tear?

    not even 2 full yrs of serious lifting and im hurting!
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  9. #9
    Train smarter, not harder $AJ's Avatar
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    btn is safe if you've developed shoulder girdle flexibility. there's a chacne you could have injured it by swapping too quickly - i.e., if you've never done to the front before, then all of a sudden you did it and used a 'heavy' weight for the first time, your body may not have been accustomed to it and you aggravated an injury. of course there's other ideas, but that's probably the best one.....rest for a few weeeks and see if it gets better.
    <->
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  10. #10
    Somewhat concerned One More Time's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Real Deal
    hmm i guess i should have it hcecked out

    did ur doctor say wat treatments were necessary to heal it? or just rest?
    is the tendonitis in addition to the tearing?

    It hurt my shoulder to throw anything for years.... so rather than go to the doctor I chose to not throw things LOL! Shortly after starting to lift it starting hurting (especially when lifting)... so I thought I had better have it checked out. It turns out that the tendonitis (which I developed after starting lifting) was causing the pain. I just took NSAIDs for that. The tearing..... well for starters the MRI was inconclusive (something about injury to the rear of the socket being so uncommon). To know for sure (but he really feels like it is torn) they have to inject dye into my shoulder and do some kind of x-ray. He said that the only way to fix it is to operate and remove the torn portion or reattach it to the bone. For now I am just doing the Dogcrapp stretches. Also, I try to train in higher rep ranges with lower weight for shoulders (the doctor advised this) but occasionally I will pump up the weight. Maybe surgery sometime down the road.....


    BTW.... I am almost certain of when I tore it (because I can remember it hurting). When I was fifteen I met this wonderful, hot girl (she is now my wife). We were at a fair so I HAD to win her a prize that night and any other time that we went to the fair. I picked the "throw the baseball at beer bottles and bust them game" and the "guess your max baseball throwing speed games".......... Moral of the story..... If you are old enough to have a son that does this or you are doing this now....... both of you STOP!
    Last edited by One More Time; 11-03-2005 at 10:34 AM.
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  11. #11
    Somewhat concerned One More Time's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Real Deal
    i'm curious about this too. i've had the same lingering shoulder problem and it always gets aggravated when i do a throwing motion. is it a rotator cuff injury?

    It could also be your rotator cuff..... That was the main reason the doc did the MRI on me because that is what he first suspected but all was well with my cuff.
    Last edited by One More Time; 11-03-2005 at 10:43 AM.
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    i would like AJ said, rest for a while and come back and see if it still hurts. if so, me personally i would switch to dumbbells. i guess i'm not coordinated enough or something b/c i have a really hard time with barbell military press. i find dumbbells easier to use for this motion although they are sometimes a little hard to push up.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by One More Time
    It hurt my shoulder to throw anything for years.... so rather than go to the doctor I chose to not throw things LOL! Shortly after starting to lift it starting hurting (especially when lifting)... so I thought I had better have it checked out. It turns out that the tendonitis (which I developed after starting lifting) was causing the pain. I just took NSAIDs for that. The tearing..... well for starters the MRI was inconclusive (something about injury to the rear of the socket being so uncommon). To know for sure (but he really feels like it is torn) they have to inject dye into my shoulder and do some kind of x-ray. He said that the only way to fix it is to operate and remove the torn portion or reattach it to the bone. For now I am just doing the Dogcrapp stretches. Also, I try to train in higher rep ranges with lower weight for shoulders (the doctor advised this) but occasionally I will pump up the weight. Maybe surgery sometime down the road.....


    BTW.... I am almost certain of when I tore it (because I can remember it hurting). When I was fifteen I met this wonderful, hot girl (she is now my wife). We were at a fair so I HAD to win her a prize that night and any other time that we went to the fair. I picked the "throw the baseball at beer bottles and bust them game" and the "guess your max baseball throwing speed games".......... Moral of the story..... If you are old enough to have a son that does this or you are doing this now....... both of you STOP!
    BRO!

    What you're describing is a Torn labrum... The procedure you're going to go in for is an MRI Arthrogram... When I tore my AC joint there was a chance I had a torn labrum as well, and had to go in for the MRI Arthrogram...

    This is serious **** Bro...

    Now you could have the lighter version of a Torn Labrum which is a SLAP lesion...

    A minor SLAP lesion can sometimes be healed with extended rest first, and then special PT to restregthen the parts of the bicepetal attachment...

    More serious SLAP and torn Labrums are a must for surgery...

    The MRI arthrogram and the operation is some pretty major stuff to do for your shoulder... You really should look up more on these terms, and procedures... You Non-chalantness about your injury could cost you in the end...

    If you'd like I could give you a run down of what the MRI arthrogram is like...
    But it ain't like you go in and just fart candy coated unicorns for an hour... I damn near passed out!
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    Rocky Training Mod Nainoa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gigem
    I used to always do behind the neck press with a barbell as part of my shoulder routine. When I read that doing behind the neck press is bad for the rotator cuff I started doin normal military press to the front instead. Since the switch both of my shoulder joints have started hurting, and I can no longer throw anything with my right arm due to the pain. I thought doing the press to the front was better for the shoulder. Anyone else have this problem?

    A lot of times over and pressing motions are AC joint related injuries.
    (One of my pet peeves on this site is how people seem to think that the RC is the only component of the shoulder that can be injured. When in fact the shoulder is the most complicated joint in the body components wise, and the RC is one of the strongest links in the chain.)

    Self test for AC injury.

    Does it hurt if you point straight up, as if a child asked you where Heaven is?

    Does it hurt if you put your palm on your good shoulder?
    Now with palm on good shoulder point your bent elbow straight up.. Does it hurt more than if it's pointed down?

    Does it hurt if you put your palm on your inner thigh (While standing) and make a shrugging motion?

    Does if hurt if you put your palm on your back, flat between the shoulder blades?

    If you answered yes to most or all of those, then most likely you have an AC joint injury...

    Depending on severity, it most likely can be healed by resting it for 2-6 weeks... Getting a sling from your doctor will speed this time, as will an Ibuprophen regimen...

    *NOTE working a shoulder with an AC injury is about as smart as playing Russian Roulette alone, as it most often leads to Osteolysis, which other than a mild case of Osteolysis caught early, and treated with several horendously painful cortisone shots, it will then require surgery.

    Best to go to the doc and make sure...
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    Originally Posted by Nainoa
    BRO!

    What you're describing is a Torn labrum... The procedure you're going to go in for is an MRI Arthrogram... When I tore my AC joint there was a chance I had a torn labrum as well, and had to go in for the MRI Arthrogram...

    This is serious **** Bro...

    Now you could have the lighter version of a Torn Labrum which is a SLAP lesion...

    A minor SLAP lesion can sometimes be healed with extended rest first, and then special PT to restregthen the parts of the bicepetal attachment...

    More serious SLAP and torn Labrums are a must for surgery...

    The MRI arthrogram and the operation is some pretty major stuff to do for your shoulder... You really should look up more on these terms, and procedures... You Non-chalantness about your injury could cost you in the end...

    If you'd like I could give you a run down of what the MRI arthrogram is like...
    But it ain't like you go in and just fart candy coated unicorns for an hour... I damn near passed out!
    I would like to look up more about it but it makes me sick LOL! I have a very weak stomach when I think about human pain...... I belive that labrum is what the doc said..... but it is (posssibly) torn on the back side... Let me have it... What is the MRI arthogram like? And please don't compare it to farting candy coated unicorns.... I am laughing my ass off and people in my office are going to start wondering if I am crazy.
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    Originally Posted by One More Time
    I would like to look up more about it but it makes me sick LOL! I have a very weak stomach when I think about human pain...... I belive that labrum is what the doc said..... but it is (posssibly) torn on the back side... Let me have it... What is the MRI arthogram like? And please don't compare it to farting candy coated unicorns.... I am laughing my ass off and people in my office are going to start wondering if I am crazy.
    LOL... Yeah that's my new line!

    Glad you liked it...

    ***
    Gee, I'm not so sure I should give you the description of the arthrogram if you're squeemish about it...

    Okay How about this...


    ****SPOILER******
















    First off in the waiting room you have to ignore the screams of the guy in who's in their in front of you...
    I would just bring ear plugs, to block out the screaming, no one needs that kind of stress before it's their turn.

    LOL!
    Okay... It's not that bad...
    See... Things are improving already!


    Now when you go in the first thing they ask you is if you're clausterphobic... Even if you say No... let me re-assure you (In Yoda Voice) "You will be... You will be..."

    (Alright enough of the melodramatics!)


    Step 1... the injections
    They take you into a room and have you lay down under a flourascope... They'll have you gowned up, and with a giant thing under your legs to keep you slightly elevated.

    Then a strange little asian man and an elderly nurse with bad teeth and breath that smells like Godzilla's dick-cheese will come in...

    The little asian man slathers you with the Iodine disinfectant, nurse taks your Blood pressure... They turn on the Flourascope, and the Doc preps things up...

    He will take a large black needle, which I **** you not is about the size of a #2 pencil lead... And that little Sonuvabitch drives it into your shoulder...
    You then reach out with your good arm and start choking him while seething the line "I find your lack of Faith disturbing."
    (Okay... Sans Star Wars Choking metaphore.)

    When syringe attached to that Donkey Cock of a needle is filled with Lidocaine which is like Novocaine for muscles... They inject it in, and after a few seconds of fire burning in your shoulder, and the feeling like someone put a nail in your elbow (Referred pain from pressure) Then it goes 90% numb, and you rejoice, with a sign of relief as your blood pressure is no longer represented in 4 digit numbers!

    Mercifully he then detaches the syringe, while leaving that fat ass needle in your shoulder... He then attaches 2 more syringes, one is the radiolidic dye, the other is saline... (I can't remember which order it goes in.)

    By the time the second one is all the way in your shoulder feels like it's going to explode like a fat kid at a cake eating contest...

    DON'T LOOK BACK AT THE FLOURASCOPE... No man should ever know how deep that needle goes in... That image will forever be locked in my goddam mind... Just keep your eyes friggin closed.

    Okay... So as you're all wobbly legged and the puny old lady with the rat **** teeth is worried that you're going to pass out and crush all 105 pounds of her on the way to the Death Tube... err... I mean MRI machine...

    You make your way there... They ask you if you're clausterphobic for the 50th time... You say No... They bring you into the room...

    At first you think "God Damn it's so cold in here my dick is going to shrink up and I'm going to have one tight little Vage after this... Trust me... The cold is your friend...

    They will load you onto this little tray and you wonder how the hell it doesn't just crush under your weight...

    They then pack you with forms and little beany bags, so your shoulder is packed in tight...

    They ask you again if you're clausterphobic... Like a goddam Moron of course you say "Pffft... What am I some little pussy... I'm totally fine with enclosed spaces!"

    Then old Hagzilla with the indian corn teeth tells you "Stay as still as you can, and just take short long abdominal breaths."

    SHE ISN'T FACKING KIDDING!

    They slide you into the machine... On reflex you close your eyes... You open your eyes when it stops and you see white tube and a little blue stripe that is an inch from your nose... You realize you're trapped, and discover that HOLY **** I'M CLAUSTERPHOBIC!

    But whatever you do, don't give in to the reflex of taking those huge paniced breaths, because if you move you screw up whatever phase of the scan and they have to re-do it...

    The scan should be 5 or 6 phases... Some longer than others... You essentially lay in the tube, loving every second that the AC kicks in and you get a blessed cold breath of air that calms you...
    All told the test should take about 45 minutes... If you move like I did... Twice... It will take longer...
    Otherwise, it's just a bunch of thrumming, humming and Star Wars Sound effects going off and overwhelming the music of Kenny Loggins greatest hits, that's playing in the cheap ass head phones they give you.

    Eventually Hagzilla and her limburger scented pallate let you out of the goddam machine, you let out a blood curddling scream, and thrash around on the floor curling up periodically into the fetal position and sucking your thumb...

    You shake all the way to the car, then go home and call your mom...

    They call you in a day or two with the results... Though if you talk nicely they'll let you see some of the images, which is really cool...


    Well I hope my prose has helped ease your fears a little rather than heighten them...

    Good Luck Bro!











    *****End of Spoiler****
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    Registered User twangtownguy's Avatar
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    What does your Dr. say?

    I had bad shoulder pain from military presses so I went to the Dr. He took X-rays and it shows a bump on the ball inside the socket of my right shoulder. The left has a smaller one.

    His advice? "Don't lift anything over your head."

    My advice? See your doctor. Only he can tell you where the pain is coming from, not a bunch of guys sitting behind their computers.
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    What you need to do...

    BNP is only bad for oyu if oyu have weak muscles around your rotator cuff

    I work at a hospital with physical therapists and this is what they advise to do if you have concerns with your rotator cuff: To make sure you have a strong rotator cuff, do ROTins & ROTouts as part of your shoulder exercises. get on a cable machine where you are standing and the grip is level to your elbow, bend your elbow at a 90 degree anglea nd stand upright. leaving your elbow at a 90 degree angle, grab the handle with the machine directly at the side that you grab with. leave your elbow stationary and rotate your arm towards the opposite side of your body, in front of you. do a set then turn your body so that your other side is beside the machine. make sure your arm is across your body, and do the opposite motion from the above. now you can work out your rotator cuff and add a little mass to the lateral portion of your deltoids. i will see if i can post an illustration here in a little while. Do this for about three weeks then go back to BNP.
    Last edited by thesixtwo; 11-03-2005 at 02:17 PM.
    Don't worry about my rep power, it was once very high, I broke a rule in these threads and questioned a few others. But no worries, It has nothing to do with the advise i'm giving, so i'd appreciate it if you'd add to my rep power if you agree to or like my advise

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    Nainoa,

    That was good your made me forget all about the needle.... er, wait big effing needle LOL! I am not finished with the doc just yet.... if within the next couple of months the pain persists, I will go further.
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    Originally Posted by Nainoa

    ...ignore the screams of the guy in who's in their in front of you...

    ...strange little asian man...

    ...elderly nurse with bad teeth and breath that smells like Godzilla's dick-cheese...

    ...little asian man slathers you with the Iodine disinfectant...

    ...large black needle, which I **** you not is about the size of a #2 pencil lead...

    ...Donkey Cock of a needle...

    ...fire burning in your shoulder...

    ...feeling like someone put a nail in your elbow...

    ...explode like a fat kid at a cake eating contest...

    ...puny old lady with the rat **** teeth...

    ...it's so cold in here my dick is going to shrink up...

    ...Hagzilla with the indian corn teeth...

    ...overwhelming the music of Kenny Loggins greatest hits...

    ...Eventually Hagzilla and her limburger scented pallate...

    ...thrash around on the floor curling up periodically into the fetal position and sucking your thumb...

    ...You shake all the way to the car, then go home and call your mom...

    Good Luck Bro!

    *peeks out from under covers*



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    omg u guys are killing me.
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    Originally Posted by gigem
    I used to always do behind the neck press with a barbell as part of my shoulder routine. When I read that doing behind the neck press is bad for the rotator cuff I started doin normal military press to the front instead. Since the switch both of my shoulder joints have started hurting, and I can no longer throw anything with my right arm due to the pain. I thought doing the press to the front was better for the shoulder. Anyone else have this problem?
    Check your grip. I used to have the same problem and noticed if I tweeked my grip more and brought it in closer it wouldn't push my rotator cuff out as much alleviating the pain.
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  23. #23
    Rocky Training Mod Nainoa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by twangtownguy
    What does your Dr. say?

    I had bad shoulder pain from military presses so I went to the Dr. He took X-rays and it shows a bump on the ball inside the socket of my right shoulder. The left has a smaller one.

    His advice? "Don't lift anything over your head."

    My advice? See your doctor. Only he can tell you where the pain is coming from, not a bunch of guys sitting behind their computers.
    "The Little ball" On the top of your shoulder, is called your AC joint...

    It's absolutely friggin' critical to have a healthy AC joint, if you want to lift weights as a life style choice... Your AC joint is responsible for transfering force from your arms to your torso...

    Not knowing anything about it, and calling it a "Little Ball" is the BB-ing equivalent of saying...

    "Hey is it bad that those strange lumpy things in that shiveled flesh husk under my Cock have turned black and are seeping green puss!"
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    Originally Posted by Worldwide
    *peeks out from under covers*



    I think I may stick with the candy unicorns!

    LOL @ Myself


    I never realized the whack flavor of my descriptors until you put them into that context!
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    Rocky Training Mod Nainoa's Avatar
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    [/QUOTE]Nainoa,

    That was good your made me forget all about the needle.... er, wait big effing needle LOL! I am not finished with the doc just yet.... if within the next couple of months the pain persists, I will go further.[/QUOTE]

    Well as luck would have it... Turns out my friend called me last night, and the doc's think he has a torn labrum... He goes in for the same test on the 15th... I'm going to try today to find some of my old links and info for him to read up and be able to ask informative Questions...

    I'll try to put it all together today and give you a paste of references to read... When I had my own shoulder injury, it assuaged my utter dread like panic to understand what they were doing to me...

    ***
    Oh and if the Arthrogram sounded bad... Just friggin wait until they give you a cortisone shot or 3 in treatment...

    (All told I took 9 needles in the shoulder over the course of about 3 months.)

    I used to have a problem with needles... Now for me to feel squeemish, I think Roseanne bar would have to get naked, and charge at my shoulder with a sharpened garden hose!
    6'4"
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    Nainoa,

    your freakin killing me

    LOL
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    Originally Posted by $AJ
    btn is safe if you've developed shoulder girdle flexibility. there's a chacne you could have injured it by swapping too quickly - i.e., if you've never done to the front before, then all of a sudden you did it and used a 'heavy' weight for the first time, your body may not have been accustomed to it and you aggravated an injury. of course there's other ideas, but that's probably the best one.....rest for a few weeeks and see if it gets better.
    Yup..

    I would see a doctor just in case but here’s something to ponder in the mean time. Start working on stretching your shoulders out before shoulder day and chest day. I had shoulder pains and completely cured them with a few simple, at home, stretches. The one that cured it for me and a few other lifters at my gym is one that involves a broom handle. Grab the handle at both ends on front of you. Rotate the broom handle over your head keeping arms strait. Now rotate the shoulders on around (arms always strait) untill the broom handle is touching your ass. Rotate back around to the starting position. Do 50 reps every other night. Your shoulders will ach after doing them. You may have a problem rotating; that’s because your shoulders are stiff and not flexible. As you improve you will be able to grip narrower and narrower on the handle, bringing your arms closer together. The exercise will be very uncomfortable at first but after a few days it will be easy and fluid.



    Cleared up all my shoulder problems, allowing me to start progressing in weight again. The suggestion was given to me by a power lifter that also had shoulder problems, and it worked for him as well. Check out this article on it.

    http://www.intens************/showthread.php?t=6997
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    Somewhat concerned One More Time's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Powerbuilt
    Yup..

    I would see a doctor just in case but here’s something to ponder in the mean time. Start working on stretching your shoulders out before shoulder day and chest day. I had shoulder pains and completely cured them with a few simple, at home, stretches. The one that cured it for me and a few other lifters at my gym is one that involves a broom handle. Grab the handle at both ends on front of you. Rotate the broom handle over your head keeping arms strait. Now rotate the shoulders on around (arms always strait) untill the broom handle is touching your ass. Rotate back around to the starting position. Do 50 reps every other night. Your shoulders will ach after doing them. You may have a problem rotating; that’s because your shoulders are stiff and not flexible. As you improve you will be able to grip narrower and narrower on the handle, bringing your arms closer together. The exercise will be very uncomfortable at first but after a few days it will be easy and fluid.



    Cleared up all my shoulder problems, allowing me to start progressing in weight again. The suggestion was given to me by a power lifter that also had shoulder problems, and it worked for him as well. Check out this article on it.

    http://www.intens************/showthread.php?t=6997
    That is the exercise I have been doing... I have my fingers crossed.
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    [/QUOTE]Nainoa,

    That was good your made me forget all about the needle.... er, wait big effing needle LOL! I am not finished with the doc just yet.... if within the next couple of months the pain persists, I will go further.[/QUOTE]

    Well as luck would have it... Turns out my friend called me last night, and the doc's think he has a torn labrum... He goes in for the same test on the 15th... I'm going to try today to find some of my old links and info for him to read up and be able to ask informative Questions...

    I'll try to put it all together today and give you a paste of references to read... When I had my own shoulder injury, it assuaged my utter dread like panic to understand what they were doing to me...

    ***
    Oh and if the Arthrogram sounded bad... Just friggin wait until they give you a cortisone shot or 3 in treatment...

    (All told I took 9 needles in the shoulder over the course of about 3 months.)

    I used to have a problem with needles... Now for me to feel squeemish, I think Roseanne bar would have to get naked, and charge at my shoulder with a sharpened garden hose![/QUOTE]

    LOL!

    Needles.... I don't think I will ever not feel squeemish.... I had a cortisone shot in my big toe joint for gout last year. I can remember crying and laughing at the same time... it hurt so bad but felt so good to get rid of the gout pain..... I thought I was gonna pass out when it felt like the needle pushed the bones in my toe apart so that it could go in the joint LOL! The room got hot and I told my wife to get a wet rag ASAP!
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    One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) One More Time has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
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    I would appreciate the links... I will pull up the trashcan next to me and have a cold wet rag handy just in case though LOL!
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