Best substitute for Back BB Squats ?

[WvrDuDe]

I wanted to start Rippetoe's , but since I am working out at home and I got no rack, nor can I afford it, nor do I have the space for it in my room ( I am a student), so I can't do Back Squats. I have already been told no back squats=not rippetoe, OK, I will do a modified version of it, I actually started a thread on the program I will start after new year, and I think I have already been given an answer to my question, but wanted to post it here, where it should have been asked in the first place.
Is Front Squats + more Deadlifts the best replacement for Back Squats ?

[Defiant1]

Front squats.



Free weight hack squats.

[WvrDuDe]

So a combination of hack squats + front squats is a better way to make up for not being able to do back squats, than front squats + more deadlifts ?
If so, how many reps. This is the program I have been considering, as said in first post, inspired by SS:

Mon:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Flat Bench Press
3x5 Pendlay Rows

Wed:
3x5 Deadlifts
3x5 DB Military Press
3x5 Power Cleans

Fri:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Incline Bench Press
3x5 Chins(weighted)

So, having in mind the volume of the program I will be doing, what combination of Front Squats and Hack squats do you think I should do ? And how many deadlifts, 1x5 as in the original SS ?

[Defiant1]

So a combination of hack squats + front squats is a better way to make up for not being able to do back squats, than front squats + more deadlifts ?
If so, how many reps. This is the program I have been considering, as said in first post, inspired by SS:

Mon:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Flat Bench Press
3x5 Pendlay Rows

Wed:
3x5 Deadlifts
3x5 DB Military Press
3x5 Power Cleans

Fri:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Incline Bench Press
3x5 Chins(weighted)

So, having in mind the volume of the program I will be doing, what combination of Front Squats and Hack squats do you think I should do ? And how many deadlifts, 1x5 as in the original SS ?

I doubt the program would say Front Squats is a "non-substitute". I would just use the same volume as recommended for regular squats. Just substitute either Fronts OR Free weight hacks (or alternate though it is easier to progress when you don't, at least initially).

[GoJu]

So a combination of hack squats + front squats is a better way to make up for not being able to do back squats, than front squats + more deadlifts ?
If so, how many reps. This is the program I have been considering, as said in first post, inspired by SS:

Mon:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Flat Bench Press
3x5 Pendlay Rows

Wed:
3x5 Deadlifts
3x5 DB Military Press
3x5 Power Cleans

Fri:
3x5 Front Squats
3x5 DB Incline Bench Press
3x5 Chins(weighted)

So, having in mind the volume of the program I will be doing, what combination of Front Squats and Hack squats do you think I should do ? And how many deadlifts, 1x5 as in the original SS ?

front squats + deadlifts are a great way to make up for not doing back squats, your back squats aught to be stronger from doing those two for a while as well.

power cleans 1x a week isn't a good idea to get the best out of the movement, maybe something like this:

monday

power clean 3 x 3
bench press 3 x 5
front squat 3 x 5
pendlay rows 3 x 5

wednesday

front squats 3 x 5
military press 3 x 5
deadlifts 1 x 5
chins 3 x 5

friday

(repeat monday)

[Eclectic1]

Dumbbell Lunges

[WvrDuDe]

GoJu, you are telling me more deadlifts+front squats will make up for no back squats, yet in the program you offer there are even less deadlifts than in the original SS (you got 1x5 x1 a week, while in the original it's ever other workout, so x1.5 a week). On the more cleans, if I go A/B days, it will be x1.5 times a week instead of x1, just as it its in the original SS.

Defiant1, about your doubt that the program says "Front Squats ain't a substitute" , I asked in the Rippetoe's questions thread if Front or Hack Squats will work, and the asnwer every1 repeated was "no back squats=it's not rippetoes" ...
Alternating Hack and Front squats will be the easiest thing in the world, because the original program has 2 days that alternate( it goes like mon-A,wed-B,Fri-A,mon-B,wed-A...) so going Front Squats on A and Hack Squats on B won't be hard at all, and I will track the progress on the 2 exercises separately.

[GoJu]

GoJu, you are telling me more deadlifts+front squats will make up for no back squats, yet in the program you offer there are even less deadlifts than in the original SS (you got 1x5 x1 a week, while in the original it's ever other workout, so x1.5 a week). On the more cleans, if I go A/B days, it will be x1.5 times a week instead of x1, just as it its in the original SS.

Defiant1, about your doubt that the program says "Front Squats ain't a substitute" , I asked in the Rippetoe's questions thread if Front or Hack Squats will work, and the asnwer every1 repeated was "no back squats=it's not rippetoes" ...
Alternating Hack and Front squats will be the easiest thing in the world, because the original program has 2 days that alternate( it goes like mon-A,wed-B,Fri-A,mon-B,wed-A...) so going Front Squats on A and Hack Squats on B won't be hard at all, and I will track the progress on the 2 exercises separately.

oh, you could do it that way as well, just do A and B workouts, ABA one week and BAB the other, I think that would be fine, front squats and deads lend very well to eachother.

[Defiant1]

GoJu, you are telling me more deadlifts+front squats will make up for no back squats, yet in the program you offer there are even less deadlifts than in the original SS (you got 1x5 x1 a week, while in the original it's ever other workout, so x1.5 a week). On the more cleans, if I go A/B days, it will be x1.5 times a week instead of x1, just as it its in the original SS.

Defiant1, about your doubt that the program says "Front Squats ain't a substitute" , I asked in the Rippetoe's questions thread if Front or Hack Squats will work, and the asnwer every1 repeated was "no back squats=it's not rippetoes" ...
Alternating Hack and Front squats will be the easiest thing in the world, because the original program has 2 days that alternate( it goes like mon-A,wed-B,Fri-A,mon-B,wed-A...) so going Front Squats on A and Hack Squats on B won't be hard at all, and I will track the progress on the 2 exercises separately.

Rippetoes is about planned progression on basic exercises. Front squats are as basic as Back Squats.


But at the end of the day it is just semantics. It doesn't matter what you call it.

[ThickAsABrick]

But at the end of the day it is just semantics. It doesn't matter what you call it.

It does if you want your secret key decoder ring!

[mfpdecs]

I was in the same boat as you were, so I bought some sawhorses to barbell squat. It sucks having to start from the bottom, but it's better than nothing. Go to Home Depot and get the bright yellow ones made by Crawford. I think they were about $20 each and they can hold 600 pounds at their tallest, so they should last you a while.

[Defiant1]

It does if you want your secret key decoder ring!

Are you just trying to be controversial? If so, it is ok. If not, it isn't.

[WvrDuDe]

So I guess final question on the topic:
Which is better to add to front squats to substitute for back squats, doing more deadlifts or alternating front and hack squats ?

About the name of the program, I guess it's just that ppl from the rippetoe's questions thread are sick and tired of inexperienced ppl messing with the program, so that's why they react this way when I ask if I can go without Back Squats. I don't mean any1 was impolite, the oposite, it's just that their opinion on the topic was a bit too extreme IMO.

[GoJu]

So I guess final question on the topic:
Which is better to add to front squats to substitute for back squats, doing more deadlifts or alternating front and hack squats ?

About the name of the program, I guess it's just that ppl from the rippetoe's questions thread are sick and tired of inexperienced ppl messing with the program, so that's why they react this way when I ask if I can go without Back Squats. I don't mean any1 was impolite, the oposite, it's just that their opinion on the topic was a bit too extreme IMO.

fronts would be better if you're already doing alot of deads IMO.

[rugbyman12]

Just a heads up, if you are going to be performing front squats, your cleans will have to be up to scrath as after a while your squatting strength will increase hugely. If you cant clean the weight your stuck without a rack again.

Freeweight BB hack squats are a great exercise, and probably your best option if you end up with the problem i said above.

Regarding your question about more deads or alternating squat types, i'd personally go with alternating squat types. When i ran rippetoe i used front squats only.

[BillStarr1980]

power cleans 1x a week isn't a good idea to get the best out of the movement,

How do PC's set themselves apart from fx Deads, squats, rows or whichever other compound movement? This is an honest question - I have never been too big on PC's myself - but will get back to them when I get in a proper gym back in Europe.

I do like the idea of maybe keeping reps lower to keep focus on technique. It might be worth it to consider flipping rep/sets on PC's to 5x3 in stead. This is also suggested by Rip.

Laughed at the decoder ring by the way - good stuff

[BillStarr1980]

Regarding your question about more deads or alternating squat types, i'd personally go with alternating squat types. When i ran rippetoe i used front squats only.

A couple of guys have talked about this - just substituting fronts for backs and keeping the program the same. I think that this would impair posterior chain development, and you ought to make changes accordingly so as not to get asymmetric growth/gains -> injuries.

Fronts dont work the glutes/hams nearly as much as back squats, which is why upping deads would be a viable option. So it is abit more than just semantics, in my view.

[burningNun]

Freeweight BB hack squats are a great exercise, and probably your best option if you end up with the problem i said above.

The other alternative is Zercher squats from the bench, which I prefer over hack squats.

[crackyflipside]

Jefferson lifts are great replacements for hack squats.

[JBElite]

^^^^I feel bad for guys with short arms.

[BillStarr1980]

The other alternative is Zercher squats from the bench, which I prefer over hack squats.

I have also heard good things about the Zerchers. Good idea to take them from the bench. I would still keep a DL day in there though.

[Dave76]

It does if you want your secret key decoder ring!

You have never done teh riptoes. The secret decoder ring is supposed to be SECRET. Who told you about it??? I need to neg them for telling teh riptoe secrets.

[burningNun]

For sure, Any type of front squat is too quad dominant to do in the starting strength format IMO.

Current routine (warmups not included):

Workout 1 - pull:
Deadlift: 3x5
Renegade Rows: 3x5
Pullups: 2x5

Workout 2 - push:
Zercher squat: 5x5
Military press: 5x5

I may be 150 lbs, but I'm FUNCTIONAL!! RAAAWR!!!