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  1. #1
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    Vitamin E for Tendonosis

    Originally Posted by Hey-Iwas51 View Post
    Fish oil should work on tendonitis by rubbing it in!!!

    Well... it did feel better, but man, did my elbow ever stink!
    Try vitamin E oil. Do the same thing, open a vita-E capsule and rub it on. I had very bad elbow tendinitis (often called tendenosis when chronic) in both arms for years. The only reason I'm able to weightlift now is that I literally cured it with regular applications of vita E that I started early this year. To keep the oil from rubbing off, I used skin tape to hold a piece of plastic wrap over the area. Before that, nothing would eliminate it. I tried it because after so many years I suddenly recalled a surgeon who in the early '80s repaired a cut tendon in my hand told me to rub on vita E oil after the surgery as it might help the tendon to heal properly.

    Once it worked for my tendonosis I figured she must have known something that's in the literature. And it seem that there is something. I found two supporting studies that I posted to wikipedia's tendinitis entry, though they were published in the '90s. The first one here is available in full if you follow the upper-righthand link. It found that vit E increased the regenerative capacity of injured tendons by inducing "intense fibroblast proliferation." The second study here was also positive and tested a hyrdogel vita E product I've not been able to find. But no matter, vita-E oil from a capsule works like a miracle, and fast too! ~Ian
    Last edited by EverYoung; 12-15-2007 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Add study details.
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    Registered User EverYoung's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EverYoung View Post

    The first one here is available in full if you follow the upper-righthand link. It found that vit E increased the regenerative capacity of injured tendons by inducing "intense fibroblast proliferation."
    A logical corollary of that finding would be the hypothesis that by increasing the activity of fibroblasts, vitamin-E supplementation would increase the speed of post-workout recovery and thus of muscular development. ~Ian
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    I have heard that vitamin E helps in healing (usually cuts), this is the first I've heard it being used for tendon injuries.

    My initial thought is...rubbing it on the skin won't get it to the tendons.

    After all when you apply moisturizer your tendons arent getting moisturized, its for your dry skin.
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    Originally Posted by EverYoung View Post
    Try vitamin E oil. Do the same thing, open a vita-E capsule and rub it on. I had very bad elbow tendinitis (often called tendenosis when chronic) in both arms for years. The only reason I'm able to weightlift now is that I literally cured it with regular applications of vita E that I started early this year. To keep the oil from rubbing off, I used skin tape to hold a piece of plastic wrap over the area. Before that, nothing would eliminate it. I tried it because after so many years I suddenly recalled a surgeon who in the early '80s repaired a cut tendon in my hand told me to rub on vita E oil after the surgery as it might help the tendon to heal properly.

    Once it worked for my tendonosis I figured she must have known something that's in the literature. And it seem that there is something. I found two supporting studies that I posted to wikipedia's tendinitis entry, though they were published in the '90s. The first one here is available in full if you follow the upper-righthand link. It found that vit E increased the regenerative capacity of injured tendons by inducing "intense fibroblast proliferation." The second study here was also positive and tested a hyrdogel vita E product I've not been able to find. But no matter, vita-E oil from a capsule works like a miracle, and fast too! ~Ian

    I have been fighting a bad case of tendonitis in my right arm for about a month and a half. Thanks for the info. I'll give this a try a report back.
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  5. #5
    We make PROGRESS happen! Bronzebird's Avatar
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    Deep Tissue Massage

    Originally Posted by WtexanW View Post
    I have been fighting a bad case of tendonitis in my right arm for about a month and a half. Thanks for the info. I'll give this a try a report back.
    I wonder if the application massage is part of the therapy? I've seen PT's highly recommending frequent massage for recovery. I think it increases the blood flow to the area. And possibly the tendons may favor compression relief to stretch and relax tension in the area. I have just got my first minor symptoms 2 days ago and plan on resting arms. I have been told that military press may have caused my forearm/elbow pain. Good news is I'll be modifying compound exericies and will avoid over head press for a long time.
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    I have heard of this and I also googled the subject. It seems that it is possible that it helps. At any rate I think I'll give it a try, what can it hurt !!
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    Topical Bioavailability

    Originally Posted by newbieT View Post
    I have heard that vitamin E helps in healing (usually cuts), this is the first I've heard it being used for tendon injuries.
    Check out the two studies I link to in my post above. Though they don't directly address your good question...

    My initial thought is...rubbing it on the skin won't get it to the tendons.

    After all when you apply moisturizer your tendons arent getting moisturized, its for your dry skin.
    I never researched that question. Given the rapid results based on a surgeon's recommendation, I got the answer first hand. But looking into it I find good evidence that vita E is transdermal:

    Lipids (1998): "To evaluate skin penetration of various vitamin E homologs, a 5% solution of either alpha-tocopherol, alpha-tocotrienol, or gamma-tocotrienol in polyethylene glycol was topically applied to SKH-1 hairless mice. [...] Most surprising was that the largest fraction of skin vitamin E following topical application was found in the deeper subcutaneous layers--the lowest layers, PD (40 +/- 15%) and D (36 +/- 15%), contained the major portion of the applied vitamin E forms. [...] Hence, applied vitamin E penetrates rapidly through the skin, but the highest concentrations are found in the uppermost 5 microns."
    What they're saying is that the vita E that did penetrate into the skin (which they call 'skin vitamin E') went deep, but most applied vita E stayed near the surface. But enough gets through to be important. In fact, it seems that vita E not only rapidly penetrates the skin, but even helps other chemicals to penetrate:

    European Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences (1995): "Vitamin E (α-tocopherol) has demonstrated effectiveness as a human skin penetration enhancer by increasing the permeability coefficient of radiolabeled hydrocortisone approximately two-fold in excised cadaver skin. Skin permeability experiments were carried out in Franz (vertical) diffusion cells in infinite dose experiments. In all five of these experiments, positive enhancement of permeability versus untreated controls was observed (p = 0.014 showing enhancement factor greater than 1). Furthermore, a reduction in lag time was observed with Vitamin E treated skin. It is postulated that Vitamin E acts as a penetration enhancer by intercalating within the lipid bilayer region of the stratum corneum, thus altering the characteristics of the membrane affecting permeability, presumably by disordering gel phase lipids. Unlike other well known enhancers, Vitamin E is generally thought to be non-irritating, and additionally, possesses antioxidant and emollient properties."
    And showing that vita E has a high propensity for tissue penetration, when put onto the eye surface (topical ophthalmic application) it readily penetrates even eye tissues:

    Lipids (2004): "Rats were administered 5 microL of pure tocopherol or tocotrienol to each eye once a day for 4 d. [...] a significant increase in total vitamin E concentration was observed in ocular tissues, including crystalline lens, neural retina, and eye cup, with topical administration using a relatively small amount (5 microL) of vitamin E, whereas no significant increase was observed when the same amount of vitamin E was administered orally."
    But no study I find looks into whether topical vita E reaches serum or tendons. However, while the question is moot for me, it stands to reason that if it penetrated deeply into the skin (as shown above), since skin is a major organ, it would most likely eventually disseminate therefrom systemically. Then, given topical application to skin over affected tendons it would most likely disseminate around that tendenous tissue. And it's my experience that topical application of vita E to the skin over painful tendons far exceeds the benefit of even high-dose oral vita E. ~Ian
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  8. #8
    Registered User newbieT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EverYoung View Post
    But no study I find looks into whether topical vita E reaches serum or tendons. However, while the question is moot for me, it stands to reason that if it penetrated deeply into the skin (as shown above), since skin is a major organ, it would most likely eventually disseminate therefrom systemically. Then, given topical application to skin over affected tendons it would most likely disseminate around that tendenous tissue. And it's my experience that topical application of vita E to the skin over painful tendons far exceeds the benefit of even high-dose oral vita E. ~Ian
    Couple of questions:
    1. How much vitamin E did you use? Did you just break open 1 capsule and rub it around your elbow?
    2. How long before you noticed a change?
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    Thanks for interesting info. I had pretty bad case of tendonitis that lasted on and off for over 1.5 years. I can temporarely beat it into submission by - you will not believe - bone soup. If interested try it too, its very concentrated soup out of sugar bones basically. When I hurt my elbow again I boil bones for about 10 hours and then I eat that "hot headcheese" and it speeds healing up dramatically. But I am sure going to try vitamin E if I hurt myself again - sounds interesting.
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    OK, time for some Snake Oil

    The body can produce its own anti inflamatory co-enzymes with the addition to the following to your diet:

    5mg. Manganese (not Magnesium)
    1000 iu sub lingual Vit B12. Sub lingual because other than an injection the only way to by pass stomach enzymes which zap the B12. Note that the red color in B12 suppliments and shots is from the mineral Cobalt. The only place in the human diet that we injest Cobalt is within the B12.

    Manganese and B12 form a co-enzyme that will go to work on the tendonitis.

    Also a PH neutral enviroment helps the co-enzymes go to work. High protein diets throw off your PH and you become acidic...sort of like gouty. Take 10 alfalfa tablets 3 times a day. They also have a side effect of lowering BO and bad breath. No....you will not moooo. They are loaded with essential minerals and micro nutriants.

    All of the above is CHEAP. And.....works!!!! Give it about 2 weeks. Keep on your shelf for next bout.

    Baldie
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    ^^ geez those older guys know things. I would try alfalfa for bad breath alone!
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    careful with alfalfa ... while good for you it can cause stomach
    problems and the 'runs' ...

    contains vitamin K which is a blood thinner

    and contains compounds that aggravate auto-immune disorders
    like lupus ...

    Most problems with joints are inflammation and the main cause
    is viral/bacterial ... the reason B12 works is because it boosts
    your immune system and you fight those infections better.

    any acute tendon problems should resolve with rest, ice and
    aspririn/ibuprophin etc.

    if it last longer than two weeks then its probably some kind
    of infection.
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    Originally Posted by Baldsnake View Post
    OK, time for some Snake Oil

    The body can produce its own anti inflamatory co-enzymes with the addition to the following to your diet:

    5mg. Manganese (not Magnesium)
    1000 iu sub lingual Vit B12. Sub lingual because other than an injection the only way to by pass stomach enzymes which zap the B12. Note that the red color in B12 suppliments and shots is from the mineral Cobalt. The only place in the human diet that we injest Cobalt is within the B12.

    Manganese and B12 form a co-enzyme that will go to work on the tendonitis.

    Also a PH neutral enviroment helps the co-enzymes go to work. High protein diets throw off your PH and you become acidic...sort of like gouty. Take 10 alfalfa tablets 3 times a day. They also have a side effect of lowering BO and bad breath. No....you will not moooo. They are loaded with essential minerals and micro nutriants.

    All of the above is CHEAP. And.....works!!!! Give it about 2 weeks. Keep on your shelf for next bout.

    Baldie
    Hey Baldie.... if I go to that lil shop on Glendale Blvd by Ihop, what would I buy ? I just read this and am going to be near there tomorrow. I have been suffering through some elbow pain, it's getting better slowly, but just won't go away.
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    GQ...check your PMs.
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    Originally Posted by newbieT View Post
    Couple of questions:
    1. How much vitamin E did you use? Did you just break open 1 capsule and rub it around your elbow?
    About half a capsule or less. I also use a skin tape you can get in the first-aid section of a pharmacy to hold down a piece of plastic wrap (about 2.5' x 1.5') over the applied oil. Otherwise, the elbow rubs on so many surfaces the oil will quickly be rubbed off. It may be important that the vita-E caps I've used during the main recovery phase have not only alpha but beta, gamma, and delta tocopherols too. Most vita-E caps these days have those.


    2. How long before you noticed a change?
    Within a few hours there can be noticeable relief, and always after about 10 hours. Though it took weeks of regular applications to reach a level where I could lift weights at liberty. But multiple attempts over several years to slowly get into weightlifting failed due to the severe elbow-tendonosis pain until I tried topical vita E, then recovery was systematic. ~Ian
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    Vitamin E

    The most comprehensive study ever done on vitamin E was done by the Mayo Clinic. I've attached.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vit...ient-vitamin-e

    OK students...your homework for today:
    If you scroll down all the way, look for Tendonosis and other sub dermal applications.

    Baldie
    MS Nutrition
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    *

    *
    I must add on thing more about alfalfa.Yes you can get diarhea and stomach bloating. Same with brocolli. And like brocolli it contains Vit K which will mess with those who take Warafin for stroke, etc. Also if you are pregnant, low red blood cell count (anemic) or have any Lupus related autoimmune disease...avoid alfalfa.
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  18. #18
    Registered User EverYoung's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldsnake View Post
    The most comprehensive study ever done on vitamin E was done by the Mayo Clinic. I've attached.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vit...ient-vitamin-e

    OK students...your homework for today:
    If you scroll down all the way, look for Tendonosis and other sub dermal applications.
    That Mayo review, or meta-analysis, of studies simply says nothing about tendons and does not mention the research on vita E and tendon healing that I link to in the first post of this thread. Again, the published research to date shows that vita E promotes the tendon-repairing activity of fibroblasts. That matches my own experience. And even if that cited research didn't exist, you can doubt but not falsify a case report of x based on the mere fact that x has not been formally tested.

    So the lack of mention of published research in the Mayo review of some studies does not carry evidentiary weight. To counter the given hypothesis you need to show at least that either vita E is not transdermal (but see above studies) or it does not affect fibroblast activity (but see above studies). However, as we've seen, those counter moves run against the current of published data to date. ~Ian
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    EY...if it works for you I say stick with it. It's my endless quest for knowlege that has me searching how something like Vit E can pass down thru the multi layers of skin and tissue to reach the tendon. I'm thinking that if E can do this, why not a potpoui of other nutriants in a topical cream or sub lingual (like B-12) bypassing the gut where digestive juices wreck havoc.
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    continuing.....scrambling thru my nutrition library I see that Vit E effects dermal fibroblasts...I have used it topicaly in that way for wound/scar healing. Otherwise (granted my books and University papers are old) oral supplimentation has shown promise with inflamation, .i.e. tendonitis.
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    Originally Posted by Baldsnake View Post
    EY...if it works for you I say stick with it. It's my endless quest for knowlege that has me searching how something like Vit E can pass down thru the multi layers of skin and tissue to reach the tendon.
    Right, and it's a good question. I posted some relevant studies here. One study finds that of the topically applied vita E that penetrates skin deeper than 5 microns, most goes deep into subcutaneous layers, the lowest layers of skin. At that deep level and en route there to, there is extensive vascularization providing a likely route for systemic distribution, especially since vita E should be recognized by the body as an essential nutrient.

    Given that, I think the harder argument to make would be that vita E penetrates into deep subcutaneous layers and then fails to disperse more broadly. But still, even though it seems a good argument that it should distribute wider, I can't find any studies that looked to see if topical vita E goes beyond subcutaneous layers and distributes systemically. But like I say, I think it's more likely that a major nutrient getting into tissue that deep will be carried by the body elsewhere too. ~Ian
    Last edited by EverYoung; 12-29-2007 at 08:31 PM. Reason: typo
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    Originally Posted by Baldsnake View Post
    OK, time for some Snake Oil

    The body can produce its own anti inflamatory co-enzymes with the addition to the following to your diet:

    5mg. Manganese (not Magnesium)
    1000 iu sub lingual Vit B12. Sub lingual because other than an injection the only way to by pass stomach enzymes which zap the B12. Note that the red color in B12 suppliments and shots is from the mineral Cobalt. The only place in the human diet that we injest Cobalt is within the B12.

    Manganese and B12 form a co-enzyme that will go to work on the tendonitis.

    Also a PH neutral enviroment helps the co-enzymes go to work. High protein diets throw off your PH and you become acidic...sort of like gouty. Take 10 alfalfa tablets 3 times a day. They also have a side effect of lowering BO and bad breath. No....you will not moooo. They are loaded with essential minerals and micro nutriants.

    All of the above is CHEAP. And.....works!!!! Give it about 2 weeks. Keep on your shelf for next bout.

    Baldie
    Baldie was kind enough to meet, me and get me started on this. I started Friday, and will post results along the way ............ Thanks Baldie
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    Okay, I have bad tendons, so this interests me.

    I'm willing the try the dermal application, but wouldn't taking doses of vit E work as well?

    Thoughts on dosage for a female, 42 years old, (and I hate to say my current weight), 140 pounds?

    Counterindications?

    Brand recommendations?

    I'm willing to try anything. Not wanting surgery right now...

    Many thanks,
    Athi
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    Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I'm willing the try the dermal application, but wouldn't taking doses of vit E work as well?
    I've been taking 16,000 IU/day, a huge dose, since shortly after I found the vita E treatment. But the tendonosis can still flare up as a dull ache and then only subsides with topical application. I was just taking 200 IU/day when I started topical applications and got fast improvement. So oral doesn't seem very effective for treating a local spot. The intention of my large oral dose is promote global proliferation of fibroblasts to aid recovery from weightlifting.

    Counterindications?
    See and this source says: "High supplementation should not be taken by women who are pregnant."

    Brand recommendations?
    I've used several brands, all with effect, even cheap stuff from a local pharmacy. But I look for natural vita E, which is d-alpha, not dl-alpha. Also, all the brands I've used also have beta, gamma, and delta tocopherols. I use a pin to poke a hole in the caps, squeeze out some and save the rest if not all is used. And as I noted previously, taping a small square of plastic wrap over the applied oil helps to keep it from rubbing off. ~Ian
    Last edited by EverYoung; 01-01-2008 at 11:38 PM.
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    Originally Posted by EverYoung View Post
    I've been taking 16,000 IU/day, a huge dose, since shortly after I found the vita E treatment. <snip> And as I noted previously, taping a small square of plastic wrap over the applied oil helps to keep it from rubbing off. ~Ian
    Absolutely spectacular. Thanks for humoring my sorry, lazy ass by finding the info for me. I never know where to go online for reliable info such as this.

    I'll try the topical first to see how it goes. Hell, I've got nothing to lose but discomfort!

    Thanks again,
    ~Athi
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    Arm Wrestling Injury and Recovery

    Hi all,

    Thanks for the wonderful info here. Recently, just before xmas in a drunken and silly state, I arm wrestled a friend (and won) multiple times. I woke the next day, and felt like my arm had been hurt quite badly. Doing my chest/triceps that same day, doing the cable crossovers gave me massive amounts of pain. So much pain that I couldn't drive properly.

    Upon doing much research in these wonderful forums, I have come across many topics, remedies and recommendations for a recovery. My arm is giving me minimal pain at this moment, and am able to perform bi/back exercises without aggitating it too much.

    I used the following:

    *4 days total rest, followed by gentle exercises (eccentric, not concentric) with maximum allowed pain. If it hurts too much, don't do it. A physio by the name of Fresch (also in this forum) recommends no more than a couple of days total rest, before taking up minimal exercises again. Try and do these exercises with you palms open.
    *With pain, take paracetamol to reduce inflamation.
    *Ice for no longer than 20 min the area of imflamation. Ice before bed.
    *Using 1 cap of the vitamine e cap on the inflamed area once a day.
    *Taking glucosamine regularly now, as I have read that it can reduce inflamation, although I also read it can take up to 6 weeks to be effective. Will continue to take glucosamine on a regular basis, as I engage in regular HIIT/interval training (ie, hard on my joints)

    Many many people have posted threads in this forum discussing different types of remedies for tendonitis. Its horrible. I was making great gains, and really feel as though I have lost some momentum by stopping for a couple of weeks. Worst of all, I'm not entirely sure if this injury will reoccure in the future as it has happened to me in the past. I am extremely impressed with the resillience of some of the forum members here, managing to make gains and make progress while still having imperfect tendons.

    I guess the moral of the story is, don't ever ever arm wrestle.
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    Thanks to all that are adding to this since it is more alternatives to what my doc is giving me.

    EverYoung, I was thinking about how you said you used saran wrap to keep the oil on the elbow. Did it feel warm?

    Over the past year I've had electrical treatments & heat treatments on both elbows and 3 steroid shots (1 in left & 2 in the right). Now they are trying prolo-som'thin-another-therapy (injecting a chemical sugary substance to encourage the body to heal the area on its own) in one arm while trying a injection of botox in the other.

    I really liked the heat treatments. My arms felt great for about 4-5 days but the pain kept coming back. I almost went out and bought the same $300 gear they used in treatment. But waiting to see what happens.
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    I forgot to post this on Friday. I have been following Baldsnake's remedy. I started with severe pain in the left, and a dull ache in the right. I am on day 9, baldie said it would take 14. I have followed his directions to the letter.
    I noticed Friday day 7, that I felt I was not really seeing any improvement. I woke up today (Sun) and was laying in bed when I noticed, the right had no pain at all, it still pops like crazy, but does not have any pain to speak of. The left still hurts, but I would say the pain went from an 8 to 3-4. I still feel it but it is defiantly showing improvement. I am still icing it every day, and my lifting is still higher rep lighter weight. I am doing BJJ 3-4 nights a week. I feel this is working and will continue.
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    I do notice when I box, that the repetitive movement seems to aggravate the left .... my jab hand. I am older and not as quick as many of the other guys, so I throw tons of jabs to maintain distance.
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    Day 13 ... I will be away Friday the 14th day. Left elbow is sort of a dull ache, WAY better than when I started, Right elbow feels really good. I did some curls tonight, I will ice both tonight. The right is a little more tender than it has beenl, but I have been doing BJJ 5 nights a week for the last 2 weeks. I would say overall, I am very pleased with the progress I have made following Baldies remedy.
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