nutrition experts...why does a bulk always end in a huge fat gain?

[BuffaJoe]

Cant seem to find a definitive answer for this one...

Im sure most know what im talking about. after a period of time your bulk becomes a fat-fest, and all the apparent weight gains are from fat, not muscle.

for me, it always seems to be around 4 months. After that, I just seem to get fat, with no change in diet or training.

Im trying to understand how I need to change my diet in order to have longer bulks....thanks.

FWIW: My bulks consist of lots of: calories/protien/carbs/fats w/ importance in that order. I eat clean - but not freakishly clean....

[ChocoChick]

A clean bulk shouldn't end in a huge fat gain. The key is to monitor your weight and bodyfat throughout and when you see you are gaining fat rather than muscle it's either time to start cutting, modify your diet or increase your activity level. Also, there is no reason not to do some cardio pwo during a bulk. This will help with not only reducing fat gain but will improve muscle growth (note: I am referring to ~15 minutes of moderate cardio after a lifting session, not HIIT or 5 day a week intense sessions). That said, some fat gain during a bulk is inevitable but it shouldn't be "huge."

The bottom line is that you have to take control of your bulk, not the other way around.

[saw14]

I eat clean - but not freakishly clean....

i dunno, im not saying you have to be extremely anal meticulous about your diet, but maybe this comment has something to do with it.

[RossK]

yah what does not "freakishly clean" entail? what sorta things are you eating and on how regular a basis that make you consider your diet not super clean ?

[vja2000]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as bulking up. If you take in more calories than you need you are going to get fat - end of story. You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients; that's a given. But, if you do increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients then guess what, you were nutrient deficient to start with - dig? I mean, what's the point of "bulking" if all it's going to do, and this IS all it does, is cover up some hard earned muscle with a layer of fat? If you want a smoother appearance, swim instead of bulking.

As was mentioned earlier, your body fat percentage is what you need to watch. You begin by picking a number, any number for your desired fat intake level. For me, this level is 20 percent of my overall caloric intake. The last I knew the Feds were recommending 30 percent, but that doesn't work for me. 20 percent is the level I feel I require and it maximizes what is available for ingestion through carbohydrate and protein. In other words, with my fat intake at or slightly below 20 percent, I have 80 percent of my total calories left to divvy up between carbs and protein anyway I choose.

I next begin by watching what I "need" in the way of carbohydrates. I keep my carb intake to just above the point of feeling good and being able to get through my routines. I have found that on workout days my carbohydrate intake needs to be higher than on non workout days. Some days I need as much as 50 percent carbs or more, other days as little as 30 percent carbs or less.

On a day when my carb intake requires me to be at around 50 percent, my protein intake will be down around 30 percent, and so it goes.

But, that's pretty much it; no real science there, as far as I'm concerned. Pick a number for your fat intake, then figure what your carb needs are and go from there. That takes care of the "percentages" with respect to how you divvy up your total calories. The overall total caloric intake will then be determined by your body fat percentage.

There are ways to enhance what you consume with respect to what is stored and what is used and that does require some science. Like, for example, taking ALA with protein and creatine, or fish oil with meals; things like that...

Vince

[ericTHEninja]

Im sure most know what im talking about. after a period of time your bulk becomes a fat-fest, and all the apparent weight gains are from fat, not muscle.

I agree w/the post above me. However, IMO your whole fat-fest thing might actaully be a result of you consuming food, your body adjusting to it, and you not adjusting your diet...or adjusting it incorrectly. I can't say I've had the problem you've had, but if that's the case, then you should vary your so called bulking duration.

[DubDiezel]

I've never really understood why people feel they have to gain so much fat when they bulk. As for myself I make it a point to maintain a certain bodyfat percentage while bulking, for me its between 7%-7.5%, it works for me, now I know some people may not be able to stay within that range but for me I still want to look good while bulking. I mean, if I continue to get stronger and gain muscle while staying at 7%-7.5%, why allow myself to get fatter? I make sure that I am burning the carbs I am consuming. I only increase my carb intake when bulking though.

[NumberTwentyTwo]

didnt read the other answers but id say cuz you are getting too many extra calories

[zcsmith]

The only people that get fat during a bulk are those that OVEREAT as far as calories go.

My guess is, even if you are eating semi-clean yet are still only gaining about .5 pounds a week, all while lifting and doing a bit of cardio, you will probably gain more muscle than fat.

The purpose of a bulk is to gain a maximum amount of muscle while limiting fat gain within a certain period of time. While I can see the reasoning for those that want to stay within a certain % all the time, aren't you really limiting the amount of muscle that you can gain?

Let's say you have two identical people - one that gains at a rate of .5 pounds every TWO weeks, the other at .5 pounds every week. They both bulk for about 26 weeks. Person 1 gains a total of 6.5 pounds, with 5.5 of that pure muscle. The other gains 13 pounds, with 10 of that being pure muscle. Person 1's total gain was 6.5 pounds, and about 15% of that weight was fat. The other person gained 13 pounds total, and 23% of that weight gained was fat.

Now, which would you rather be? Now sure, you may hav stayed within you goal bodyfat % for person 1, and while you limited your fat gain, you also really limited your muscle gain. Person 2 still limited their fat gain (only 3 pounds gained!), but maximized their muscle gain more so than person 1.

So, if someone is at 175 and 7%, and wants to bulk yet stay at 7% - you are NOT maximizing muscle gains while limiting fat gains. Think about it. If that person were to gain 10 pounds, only .7 of that would have to be fat in order for him to maintain that 7%. THINK ABOUT THAT! You would have to bulk SO SLOWLY in order to reach that goal.

That's just my opinion, though. People have to do whatever makes them comfortable, and that's the bottom line.

[ratmonkey]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as bulking up. If you take in more calories than you need you are going to get fat - end of story. You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients; that's a given. But, if you do increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients then guess what, you were nutrient deficient to start with - dig? I mean, what's the point of "bulking" if all it's going to do, and this IS all it does, is cover up some hard earned muscle with a layer of fat? If you want a smoother appearance, swim instead of bulking.

As was mentioned earlier, your body fat percentage is what you need to watch. You begin by picking a number, any number for your desired fat intake level. For me, this level is 20 percent of my overall caloric intake. The last I knew the Feds were recommending 30 percent, but that doesn't work for me. 20 percent is the level I feel I require and it maximizes what is available for ingestion through carbohydrate and protein. In other words, with my fat intake at or slightly below 20 percent, I have 80 percent of my total calories left to divvy up between carbs and protein anyway I choose.

I next begin by watching what I "need" in the way of carbohydrates. I keep my carb intake to just above the point of feeling good and being able to get through my routines. I have found that on workout days my carbohydrate intake needs to be higher than on non workout days. Some days I need as much as 50 percent carbs or more, other days as little as 30 percent carbs or less.

On a day when my carb intake requires me to be at around 50 percent, my protein intake will be down around 30 percent, and so it goes.

But, that's pretty much it; no real science there, as far as I'm concerned. Pick a number for your fat intake, then figure what your carb needs are and go from there. That takes care of the "percentages" with respect to how you divvy up your total calories. The overall total caloric intake will then be determined by your body fat percentage.

There are ways to enhance what you consume with respect to what is stored and what is used and that does require some science. Like, for example, taking ALA with protein and creatine, or fish oil with meals; things like that...

Vince

you're entitled to whatever opinion you like... i'd just recommend no one take this post too seriously.

[BuffaJoe]

you're entitled to whatever opinion you like... i'd just recommend no one take this post too seriously.

yea really...

Everyone is missing my point. I dont need education on a BB diet.

It seams like my metabolism slows down after a period of time, with NO change to diet or training... resulting in (higher than normal) fat gains. This happens every time I bulk....

What is the reasons behind this? what changes can I make to my diet?

[BuffaJoe]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as bulking up. If you take in more calories than you need you are going to get fat - end of story. You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients; that's a given. But, if you do increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients then guess what, you were nutrient deficient to start with - dig? I mean, what's the point of "bulking" if all it's going to do, and this IS all it does, is cover up some hard earned muscle with a layer of fat? If you want a smoother appearance, swim instead of bulking.

As was mentioned earlier, your body fat percentage is what you need to watch. You begin by picking a number, any number for your desired fat intake level. For me, this level is 20 percent of my overall caloric intake. The last I knew the Feds were recommending 30 percent, but that doesn't work for me. 20 percent is the level I feel I require and it maximizes what is available for ingestion through carbohydrate and protein. In other words, with my fat intake at or slightly below 20 percent, I have 80 percent of my total calories left to divvy up between carbs and protein anyway I choose.

I next begin by watching what I "need" in the way of carbohydrates. I keep my carb intake to just above the point of feeling good and being able to get through my routines. I have found that on workout days my carbohydrate intake needs to be higher than on non workout days. Some days I need as much as 50 percent carbs or more, other days as little as 30 percent carbs or less.

On a day when my carb intake requires me to be at around 50 percent, my protein intake will be down around 30 percent, and so it goes.

But, that's pretty much it; no real science there, as far as I'm concerned. Pick a number for your fat intake, then figure what your carb needs are and go from there. That takes care of the "percentages" with respect to how you divvy up your total calories. The overall total caloric intake will then be determined by your body fat percentage.

There are ways to enhance what you consume with respect to what is stored and what is used and that does require some science. Like, for example, taking ALA with protein and creatine, or fish oil with meals; things like that...

Vince

This is one of the fundemental aspects of bodybuilding.... you're wrong

[Taffin]

I've never really understood why people feel they have to gain so much fat when they bulk. As for myself I make it a point to maintain a certain bodyfat percentage while bulking, for me its between 7%-7.5%, it works for me, now I know some people may not be able to stay within that range but for me I still want to look good while bulking. I mean, if I continue to get stronger and gain muscle while staying at 7%-7.5%, why allow myself to get fatter? I make sure that I am burning the carbs I am consuming. I only increase my carb intake when bulking though.

I'd like to get to 7-7.5% in my LIFETIME, much less during a bulk.

[r~iddick]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as bulking up. If you take in more calories than you need you are going to get fat - end of story. You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients; that's a given. But, if you do increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients then guess what, you were nutrient deficient to start with - dig? I mean, what's the point of "bulking" if all it's going to do, and this IS all it does, is cover up some hard earned muscle with a layer of fat? If you want a smoother appearance, swim instead of bulking.

As was mentioned earlier, your body fat percentage is what you need to watch. You begin by picking a number, any number for your desired fat intake level. For me, this level is 20 percent of my overall caloric intake. The last I knew the Feds were recommending 30 percent, but that doesn't work for me. 20 percent is the level I feel I require and it maximizes what is available for ingestion through carbohydrate and protein. In other words, with my fat intake at or slightly below 20 percent, I have 80 percent of my total calories left to divvy up between carbs and protein anyway I choose.

I next begin by watching what I "need" in the way of carbohydrates. I keep my carb intake to just above the point of feeling good and being able to get through my routines. I have found that on workout days my carbohydrate intake needs to be higher than on non workout days. Some days I need as much as 50 percent carbs or more, other days as little as 30 percent carbs or less.

On a day when my carb intake requires me to be at around 50 percent, my protein intake will be down around 30 percent, and so it goes.

But, that's pretty much it; no real science there, as far as I'm concerned. Pick a number for your fat intake, then figure what your carb needs are and go from there. That takes care of the "percentages" with respect to how you divvy up your total calories. The overall total caloric intake will then be determined by your body fat percentage.

There are ways to enhance what you consume with respect to what is stored and what is used and that does require some science. Like, for example, taking ALA with protein and creatine, or fish oil with meals; things like that...

Vince

Seconded! I've never bulked or cut. I've just eaten what was required, you know when you're eating too much or too little.

Different things work for different people. I have never bulked and put on over 20lbs of lean mass, I never worked my abs and still have a six pack meaning my bodyfat must be around 12% or lower.

The term bulk should just be renamed to 'bodybuilding diet' if you put on fat then you adjust accordingly. If you're not putting on muscle, adjust accordingly - its straight forward.

[jked4life]

I'd like to get to 7-7.5% in my LIFETIME, much less during a bulk.

Bump

[DubDiezel]

So, if someone is at 175 and 7%, and wants to bulk yet stay at 7% - you are NOT maximizing muscle gains while limiting fat gains. Think about it. If that person were to gain 10 pounds, only .7 of that would have to be fat in order for him to maintain that 7%. THINK ABOUT THAT! You would have to bulk SO SLOWLY in order to reach that goal.

That's just my opinion, though. People have to do whatever makes them comfortable, and that's the bottom line.

I understand what you're saying but just for the record, on September 17, 2005 I competed in my first competition at 193lbs with 4.9% bodyfat(which sucked so believe I'm comin in shredded this time) and as of today I'm 219lbs at 7.3% bodyfat. See I will continue to gain quite well. My goal is to try to get to 225-230lbs at 7% before I start to diet down for my next competition.

[DubDiezel]

for me, it always seems to be around 4 months. After that, I just seem to get fat, with no change in diet or training.

Im trying to understand how I need to change my diet in order to have longer bulks....thanks.

FWIW: My bulks consist of lots of: calories/protien/carbs/fats w/ importance in that order. I eat clean - but not freakishly clean....

That's just it, if you don't see the results you want then it's time to change your diet, maybe decrease your fat intake while maintaining the same amount of carbs. Maybe decrease fat and increase carbs. Maybe decrease fat and increase both carbs and protein. Maybe decrease both carbs and fat while increasing protein. I'm not saying to choose one of these, I'm just trying to make a point, you gotta sit down and do the math, you're the only one who truly knows your body so listen to it. But again somethings gotta change if you're not getting what you want.

[BuffaJoe]

That's just it, if you don't see the results you want then it's time to change your diet, maybe decrease your fat intake while maintaining the same amount of carbs. Maybe decrease fat and increase carbs. Maybe decrease fat and increase both carbs and protein. Maybe decrease both carbs and fat while increasing protein. I'm not saying to choose one of these, I'm just trying to make a point, you gotta sit down and do the math, you're the only one who truly knows your body so listen to it. But again somethings gotta change if you're not getting what you want.

good point.... Ill have to try a few things before I give and start to cut.

[JTrain306]

Let's say you have two identical people - one that gains at a rate of .5 pounds every TWO weeks, the other at .5 pounds every week. They both bulk for about 26 weeks. Person 1 gains a total of 6.5 pounds, with 5.5 of that pure muscle. The other gains 13 pounds, with 10 of that being pure muscle. Person 1's total gain was 6.5 pounds, and about 15% of that weight was fat. The other person gained 13 pounds total, and 23% of that weight gained was fat.

Now, which would you rather be?

Besides the fact that those numbers are just made up and have no real signifiance to real world results, I'd still rather be the pesron with lower bodyfat the whole time. Why? Because when you're busy cutting to get rid of that unwanted fat, I'm still going to be adding muscle at a steady pace. I will never, I repeat, never, bodybuild with a style of bulk/cut, bulk/cut. The whole point of this is to look good. It's not like I only have X amount of time to bodybuild.... this is a lifestyle, and hence, a lifetime process. But hey, different strokes for different folks, have fun with your extra fat.

You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients;

These 2 statements are completely contradictory

[zcsmith]

Besides the fact that those numbers are just made up and have no real signifiance to real world results, I'd still rather be the pesron with lower bodyfat the whole time. Why? Because when you're busy cutting to get rid of that unwanted fat, I'm still going to be adding muscle at a steady pace. I will never, I repeat, never, bodybuild with a style of bulk/cut, bulk/cut. The whole point of this is to look good. It's not like I only have X amount of time to bodybuild.... this is a lifestyle, and hence, a lifetime process. But hey, different strokes for different folks, have fun with your extra fat.



These 2 statements are completely contradictory

See, but you are assuming that the person that gained a bit more fat would WANT to cut. I don't know about you, but if I'm gaining 10 pounds of real muscle while adding only three pounds of fat (natural, or course), I'm going to keep doing that until I reach a point of diminishing returns. It's all a matter of perspective, I guess, but while a 175 pound, 5'8" person at 6% bodyfat is impressive, a 200 pound, 10% 5'8" person is JUST as impressive, if not more so, and FAR from being out of shape.

I will stick by my statement - if you are looking to maintain a certain BF% while trying to add muscle, I believe that you are really limiting your lean mass gains - if your goal is to add muscle, of course.

[vja2000]

You cannot eat your way to more muscle - period!

This is not to say that you can't increase muscle mass by taking in more nutrients;

These 2 statements are completely contradictory

Quote taken out of context - - NEXT???

Vince

[Jackadise]

Fat happens, don't worry about it too much, but don't let it get out of control either.

[vja2000]

you're entitled to whatever opinion you like... i'd just recommend no one take this post too seriously.

Ahhh, my Ratmonkey friend stikes again

Rat, there seems to be much confusion over what a "bulk" is. The true definition of a bulk is the addition of "lean" muscle mass - period! Now, surely you won't deny this?

Unfortunately, many newcomers to the sport do not realize or recognize this simple truth and instead believe "bulking" is the simple act of putting on mass, period. A further misconception of "bulking" is that it involves nothing more than taking in more calories or eating until they can't stand food any longer - this certainly is not true.

I have always used terms such as "putting on more muscle" or "increasing lean muscle mass" or "building more muscle," etc. instead of "bulking" for this precise reason; it causes too much confusion in the sport! If I were to tell a client he or she needs to "bulk up," this would not mean the same thing to them as it would were I to simply state, "you need to build more lean muscle mass." If we are to use such terms as "build more muscle" or "build more lean mass," why then do we need to use the term, "bulk up" other than to make a relatively simple process more complex and confusing?

If you wish to refer to the process of working out and building muscle as "bulking," be my guest. After all, that IS what it is. But, I believe that guys like you and I owe it to our bodybuilding friends to teach them or at the very least tell them, what the term "bulking" truly means and was in fact ALWAYS intended to mean and that is to build more muscle, not to eat themselves into fathood.

You lift weights, eat right, watch your body fat levels and as a result build more lean muscle mass over a period of time. Well, guess what, that is "bulking" in its true definition or as it was meant to be. This is why I say there is no such thing as bulking; that is to say, not as the term is being used by most today.

If you are as good as you say you are, you know what bulking is and you also know it ain't what most people today think it is. Either we drop the term altogether or square it away and put it into proper context once and for all...

Vince