It's easy to see what is going to happen here...

Flex500 · 10-20-2005, 09:56 AM

Well with all the "cutler is the next mr. o" "dexter is the next mr. O" and "gunter is the next Mr. O" comments I thought I will throw out my two sense on the matter.

Cutler is not the next mr. o, neither is dexter, gustavo, and lmfao at thinking gunter is. The writing is on the wall and it is easy to see what will happen.

Next year Ronnie will win again, and maybe the year after that. During this time these controversies will continue "should jay have won, no coleman, no cutler, no gunter". All the meanwhile a guy like victor martinez will be hanging around 5th place getting better and better. Ronnie will retire and cutler et al will start getting all excited but BOOM! Victor Martinez or a guy like that will win the Mr. O for (pick a number) years in a row.

Cutler, gunter, dexter, gustavo etc. are just gonna end up like shawn ray, flex wheeler, kevin levrone etc. So close and look so great but just fall short of getting that Mr. O. It's like now how a lot of people say "hmm flex should have won this or that olympia, or levrone should have won", or whoever. that is how people in 4-6 years will talk about cutler, gustavo, gunter.

If Ronnie retires before next year or the year after jay may have a chance, if not I do not think jay will ever win. Victor Martinez has the potential to have a much much better physique than jay (or anybody else in that top 5 IMO) he just needs to develop it a bit more and stay motivated and on track.

thoughts??

AangleN · 10-20-2005, 10:34 AM

yeah, your points are valid, and again, it all depends on how his physique develops and matures. hes already really big, but it'll be interesting to see what he'll go with, more size or just refine. i would like to see him get even bigger, i think he has awesome shape.

dexter wont win, we all know that. jay? eh, doubtful. he just seems to have his niche carved out. good enough to win the arnold, but the powers that be dont want him to take the 'real' crown. i'm not saying he should, its just how everything looks to be panning out.

gunter.....i COULD see it, but i wouldn't predict it. there are too many obvious flaws. now, maybe i'm wrong and he'll come in huge and improved. if so, then great, i think he'd represent bodybuilders really well (dont get me started on what ronnie did a few years back on leno).

gustavo is a good candidate too....don't have much to say on him i guess....he did bring his gut down a ton, i was impressed. i dont really care about gut size anyway, but it was impressive that he could respond to the criticisms so well.

ExCompetitor · 10-20-2005, 10:45 AM

Capriese Murray......

2004z06vette · 10-20-2005, 10:45 AM

Jay wont win and neither is dexter. Dexter has nice shape but not enough mass to compete with the monsters and Jay has his flaw which is his back. he also has no v taper and looks squared. Gustavo can give a fight for the tittle because of how much he has improved and he has alot more left in him.
Victor is on top of everybody today..even jay..Victor has more genetics than dexter and Jay combined. His muscles are full and he has nice back development. I said it before, he looks like the way coleman did back in 1997 when he took 7 i believe. Victor will go from 5th place to 2nd place..mark my words..he wont ever be in third.. he will make a huuuuuuge jump from that 5th spot that it will be lights out for everybody.

Flex500 · 10-20-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2004z06vette

Jay wont win and neither is dexter. Dexter has nice shape but not enough mass to compete with the monsters and Jay has his flaw which is his back. he also has no v taper and looks squared. Gustavo can give a fight for the tittle because of how much he has improved and he has alot more left in him.
Victor is on top of everybody today..even jay..Victor has more genetics than dexter and Jay combined. His muscles are full and he has nice back development. I said it before, he looks like the way coleman did back in 1997 when he took 7 i believe. Victor will go from 5th place to 2nd place..mark my words..he wont ever be in third.. he will make a huuuuuuge jump from that 5th spot that it will be lights out for everybody.

yeah I tend to agree, jay is pegged as the second place guy and I just don't think his body will do what it needs to do be in number one spot.

ironLifeBG · 10-20-2005, 11:11 AM

hopefully if victor wins he won't drop to his knees and SOB for like 5 mins and then praise the lord, claiming that jesus made him the greatest bodybuilder alive.

i guess it was the "lords plan" for ronnie coleman to take retarded amounts of GH and illegal AAS...makes alot of sense to me.

IMO the 2005 olympia contest was a black eye for bodybuilding.

detras22 · 10-20-2005, 11:48 AM

Didn't Coleman finish 7th or 8th the year before he won his first Mr. O?

Flex500 · 10-20-2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detras22

Didn't Coleman finish 7th or 8th the year before he won his first Mr. O?

yeah and that is why I can just see victor hanging around 4-7th place another year or two then just pulling off the big win.

genetic · 10-20-2005, 12:07 PM

I really don't think anyone would be saying "victor martinez" is gonna win if Ronnie hadn't of said he's the next after him

Flex500 · 10-20-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genetic

I really don't think anyone would be saying "victor martinez" is gonna win if Ronnie hadn't of said he's the next after him

For the most part your probably right but he has been one of my favorites since he turned pro. I just think he really has the body type to be the next Mr. O. Also, Ronnie just said that recently but many other bbers have said he looks like he has the most potential to be the next mr. o. Personally I started thinking then when chris cormier said vic by far has the most potential of any new pro he has ever seen.

I really think it is his choice. He could choke and be a regular cormier or I could really see him getting motivated and taking his body to the next level.

duganator · 10-20-2005, 12:17 PM

I don't believe that martinez is gonna win right after ronnie, martinez is still too small right now. Has anybody seen his legs lately, they suck, big time, his calves aint that great either, and compared to the rest of his body, his delts are super small, I give jay 2 years at the O before he retires and then martinez gets it....

AangleN · 10-20-2005, 12:35 PM

duganator....your point is valid, his legs lack behind the rest of him.

What about Dennis James? I know, he comes into contests somehow much worse than he looks like 2 weeks out. If he can ever get it all together, bring up his legs/calves a bit more, he could really be awesome.

I'd like to see Ruhl win it (no, i'm not saying I think he will), just bc he seems like a cool/funny guy.

duganator · 10-20-2005, 12:38 PM

Yeah anglen if dennis brought his quads and calves up and took in his horrendous mid section i could see him doing tons of damage, its just he hasn't figured out how to peak for a show yet, at two weeks out im like wow, he's gonna be top three, then i see him at the show and i think maybe top six, its sad really...

biggash · 10-20-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex500

For the most part your probably right but he has been one of my favorites since he turned pro. I just think he really has the body type to be the next Mr. O. Also, Ronnie just said that recently but many other bbers have said he looks like he has the most potential to be the next mr. o. Personally I started thinking then when chris cormier said vic by far has the most potential of any new pro he has ever seen.

I really think it is his choice. He could choke and be a regular cormier or I could really see him getting motivated and taking his body to the next level.

Victor from what I've seen of him will probably end up like Cormier. He nailed his conditioning when he won night of champions and he hasn't been on since. He will be another one that will probably never bring his best on stage. That being said, he does have the package to be Mr. Olympia.

irocktheyellow · 10-20-2005, 12:56 PM

Vic? maybe. But in the not to distant future, i think a lot of people are going to be talking about a man named Phil Heath.

biggash · 10-20-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irocktheyellow

Vic? maybe. But in the not to distant future, i think a lot of people are going to be talking about a man named Phil Heath.

Phil has an incredible physic and is quite young but his shoulder width will hurt him in the pro ranks.

irocktheyellow · 10-20-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggash

Phil has an incredible physic and is quite young but his shoulder width will hurt him in the pro ranks.

Remember he is only 25 years old. He probably has over a decade to improve his already championship physique.

biggash · 10-20-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irocktheyellow

Remember he is only 25 years old. He probably has over a decade to improve his already championship physique.

Absolutely but he can't improve his clavicle width.

Number69 · 10-20-2005, 03:36 PM

Victor can't pull a Ronnie. Noone thought Ronnie had the genetics to me Mr O except himself and Bryan Dobson. He finished 6th in 96 and 9th in 97. He was smooth and dwarfed by Yates. 98 he dials it in, beats Flex narrowly and continues to grow setting new standards (I personally thought his look this year was stunning).

Victor has been marked, like Cormier has, as the guy who could for a few years now. What's to stop someone like Richard Jones making freaky gains in his year off? Or David Henry putting on another 20lbs and changing the name of the game like Zane did (except Henry = Zane x 100).

It has happened so many times that the guy with genetics who appears to be the incumbent champ rests on his laurels. In each era, the most genetically gifted athletes have won but rarely if ever dominated - Oliva, Fox, Levrone, Flex... the hard workers, who obviously still had stunning genetics, took the mantle though - Arnie, Dorian, Ronnie (haney is probably the exception to this rule...).

I personally don't see a dominant Mr O arising for a while, and for obvious reasons. To be competitive these days, one need tremendous, conditioned, thick, mature muscles. This takes, time, experience and age. Ronnie is a freak - he was the oldest competitor in the O this year. I don't think we'll see a Mr O under 30 for a while, at least not while the criteria remain as they are. With that in mind, we might look forward to a less predictable, but possibly lower standard, of Olympian.

the terminator · 10-20-2005, 04:03 PM

As he did this year with charles glass,gunter will continue to improve into 06 and 07,so he will be waiting to beat ronnie,when big ron retires,for the mr o title.

Quelly · 10-20-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironLifeBG

hopefully if victor wins he won't drop to his knees and SOB for like 5 mins and then praise the lord, claiming that jesus made him the greatest bodybuilder alive.

i guess it was the "lords plan" for ronnie coleman to take retarded amounts of GH and illegal AAS...makes alot of sense to me.

IMO the 2005 olympia contest was a black eye for bodybuilding.

bump to that

Quelly · 10-20-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duganator

Yeah anglen if dennis brought his quads and calves up and took in his horrendous mid section i could see him doing tons of damage, its just he hasn't figured out how to peak for a show yet, at two weeks out im like wow, he's gonna be top three, then i see him at the show and i think maybe top six, its sad really...

man you could replace dennis with ronnie and the paragraph would still work .....calves, quad definition, abs and wide waist and distended gut....sounds like a champ to me! so yeah actually i'd say dennis has a good chance at being the next ronnie in the ifbb of today lol

BB fanatic · 10-21-2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2004z06vette

Jay wont win and neither is dexter. Dexter has nice shape but not enough mass to compete with the monsters and Jay has his flaw which is his back. he also has no v taper and looks squared. Gustavo can give a fight for the tittle because of how much he has improved and he has alot more left in him.
Victor is on top of everybody today..even jay..Victor has more genetics than dexter and Jay combined. His muscles are full and he has nice back development. I said it before, he looks like the way coleman did back in 1997 when he took 7 i believe. Victor will go from 5th place to 2nd place..mark my words..he wont ever be in third.. he will make a huuuuuuge jump from that 5th spot that it will be lights out for everybody.

Victor has never impressed me. Not in the OLympia or the NOC that he won.

lifepulse · 10-21-2005, 01:01 AM

Go read Number69's post, everything he said is 100% accurate. Victor has great genetics, but 1) he's a bit short, and realistically, that tends to work against potential Mr. O's, 2) his "ethic" doesn't seem to be there, and that will hold him back. A harder worker will win out over superior genetics 99% of the time, because hard work leads to improvements over time, while superior genetics do not. I could easily see somebody like Branch Warren or Mustafa Muhammed, or even David Henry, picking up the O for a year (much like in the early 80s where champions were rotated on a near yearly basis), because these are all individuals who are actually bringing up their physiques. I'll say it right now, if Branch brings up his shoulders, he is a serious force to be reckoned with, reminiscient of a somewhat smaller Yates (condition-wise, density-wise). But there is no clear-cut heir on the horizon, as much as I love Vic.

-lifepulse

Flex500 · 10-21-2005, 06:51 AM

I agree with most of what you guys are saying, I just picked vic. My main point was that I bet someone will emerge and just swipe the sandow and the will be the new Mr. O.

Big Jeff · 10-21-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex500

Well with all the "cutler is the next mr. o" "dexter is the next mr. O" and "gunter is the next Mr. O" comments I thought I will throw out my two sense on the matter.

Cutler is not the next mr. o, neither is dexter, gustavo, and lmfao at thinking gunter is. The writing is on the wall and it is easy to see what will happen.

Next year Ronnie will win again, and maybe the year after that. During this time these controversies will continue "should jay have won, no coleman, no cutler, no gunter". All the meanwhile a guy like victor martinez will be hanging around 5th place getting better and better. Ronnie will retire and cutler et al will start getting all excited but BOOM! Victor Martinez or a guy like that will win the Mr. O for (pick a number) years in a row.

Cutler, gunter, dexter, gustavo etc. are just gonna end up like shawn ray, flex wheeler, kevin levrone etc. So close and look so great but just fall short of getting that Mr. O. It's like now how a lot of people say "hmm flex should have won this or that olympia, or levrone should have won", or whoever. that is how people in 4-6 years will talk about cutler, gustavo, gunter.

If Ronnie retires before next year or the year after jay may have a chance, if not I do not think jay will ever win. Victor Martinez has the potential to have a much much better physique than jay (or anybody else in that top 5 IMO) he just needs to develop it a bit more and stay motivated and on track.

thoughts??

I have to agree with you on this one. I really feel for Jay, and hope that once Big Ron retires Cutler will win at least once. But I think the IFBB will take advantage of Coleman stepping down and appoint a smaller competitor to Mr. Olympia.

Let's not get confused; Victor Martinez is definitely not small, just smaller than Ronnie, and he posseses a very beautiful physique. I admire Big Ron because of his amazing combination of size and balance, and I admire Martinez because of his shape and flow. I think someone like him will be the next Mr. O.

Flex500 · 10-21-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Jeff

I have to agree with you on this one. I really feel for Jay, and hope that once Big Ron retires Cutler will win at least once. But I think the IFBB will take advantage of Coleman stepping down and appoint a smaller competitor to Mr. Olympia.

Let's not get confused; Victor Martinez is definitely not small, just smaller than Ronnie, and he posseses a very beautiful physique. I admire Big Ron because of his amazing combination of size and balance, and I admire Martinez because of his shape and flow. I think someone like him will be the next Mr. O.

agreed. I just think by the time this is all said and done jay is going to be played out. Basically by the time Ron is gone we will also be tired of seeing Jay. It will be time for a totally new champ.

Number69 · 10-21-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifepulse

Go read Number69's post, everything he said is 100% accurate. Victor has great genetics, but 1) he's a bit short, and realistically, that tends to work against potential Mr. O's, 2) his "ethic" doesn't seem to be there, and that will hold him back. A harder worker will win out over superior genetics 99% of the time, because hard work leads to improvements over time, while superior genetics do not. I could easily see somebody like Branch Warren or Mustafa Muhammed, or even David Henry, picking up the O for a year (much like in the early 80s where champions were rotated on a near yearly basis), because these are all individuals who are actually bringing up their physiques. I'll say it right now, if Branch brings up his shoulders, he is a serious force to be reckoned with, reminiscient of a somewhat smaller Yates (condition-wise, density-wise). But there is no clear-cut heir on the horizon, as much as I love Vic.

-lifepulse

Warren is exactly the type of person who could take it in a few years and also possibly JOJ if he balances his physique (calves) and nails conditioning. This way the status quo of mass is preserved to an extent yet the whingers get their way on the belly mandate. Regardelss of mandates, I do think with the exception of a couple of years, the best man does win the Mr O. (I think Ron, Haney, Oliva have had indefeasible reigns - Yates 93, 97 I dunno, same with Arnie 80 and Franco 81).

The politics excuse is old news. If politics were prevalent, why did Ron win in 98? Was it because Weider decided they'd make him drastically improve in appearance? Same with Gustavo - the Olympia goes on merit. Just because Ronnie has won more decisively some years (03, 04) doesn't invalidate the wins by less than 5 points (98, 01).

lifepulse · 10-21-2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

The politics excuse is old news. If politics were prevalent, why did Ron win in 98? Was it because Weider decided they'd make him drastically improve in appearance? Same with Gustavo - the Olympia goes on merit. Just because Ronnie has won more decisively some years (03, 04) doesn't invalidate the wins by less than 5 points (98, 01).

ATTENTION ALL TEENS: read the above quote! I get so tired of hearing "politics this, politics that", just because you don't like the results (because your favorite bodybuilder didn't place where you wanted him to). Look at someone like Cormier, taking second at the AC and first at the Ironman (I believe), then flunking the Olympia. You cannot have pinball results like that with "politics". He got his placings according to his physique. The only time "politics" plays in, for the most part, is with newer competitors. It's going to be much harder for a competitor like Branch Warren or Johnnie Jackson to get call-outs against a Cutler or a Coleman. But part of the reason for that is because they are not yet truly established, and therefore, to prove themselves, they're going to have to do so decisively. And there is nothing wrong with this-- it's how bodybuilding SHOULD work. As much as I love Branch, and would have loved to see him top 6, he should be pleased with his 8th place, because it lays the groundwork for 5th or 6th next year. The days of somebody coming in and placing second in their first outing (Yates) are pretty much finished, so just face the fact that placing well these days is a cumulative process, for the most part.

-lifepulse

biggash · 10-21-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironLifeBG

hopefully if victor wins he won't drop to his knees and SOB for like 5 mins and then praise the lord, claiming that jesus made him the greatest bodybuilder alive.

i guess it was the "lords plan" for ronnie coleman to take retarded amounts of GH and illegal AAS...makes alot of sense to me.

IMO the 2005 olympia contest was a black eye for bodybuilding.

No, but it was obviously God's plan for you to judge people. God could indeed be using him to spread the word to people that otherwise might not be told.