Shoulder pain and bench...

[forcefedfreak]

Okay so I've been training for about two months. Took me a few weeks to get a solid routine down. For chest I do flat bench, incline DB, I was doing fys, about two weeks ago I added decline DB and dropped the flys. So last week, I go for a 205 bench. Get it for a clean four reps. So I throw 225 on there...miss it. And my shoulder hurts for the next few days. It's like my front delt kinda, where my shoulder connects to my pec. I've heard a lot of horror stories of shoulder injuries and bench press. Is this I should seriosuly be worried about? And how can I remedy it? I did 205 for another set of four today, and my left shoulder felt weak, and it hurt a little bit after. I want to try 225 again next week, but i'm not sure if I should start my cycle over again, or switch to DB bench for a few weeks. Opinions?

[Dominik]

You're trying to progress too quickly. My brother did the same thing on incline bench, injured his rotator cuff, and couldn't train his upper body for several months. All up it set him back about 6 months in progress.

The moral to the story? If you keep trying to crank up the weight every week without backing it off and giving the body time to recover and the connective tissues time to strengthen, something's going to give. Usually form goes to crap and then you get injured.

It's a dirty little secret the fans of "progressive overload" don't tell you about. You've only been training for a couple of months, you've made some solid gains... back it off a little or coast for a while before increasing the weight again. Pain is always a signal from your body saying "slow down."

[Nainoa]

Okay so I've been training for about two months. Took me a few weeks to get a solid routine down. For chest I do flat bench, incline DB, I was doing fys, about two weeks ago I added decline DB and dropped the flys. So last week, I go for a 205 bench. Get it for a clean four reps. So I throw 225 on there...miss it. And my shoulder hurts for the next few days. It's like my front delt kinda, where my shoulder connects to my pec. I've heard a lot of horror stories of shoulder injuries and bench press. Is this I should seriosuly be worried about? And how can I remedy it? I did 205 for another set of four today, and my left shoulder felt weak, and it hurt a little bit after. I want to try 225 again next week, but i'm not sure if I should start my cycle over again, or switch to DB bench for a few weeks. Opinions?

I think I know what you've got going on here...
You should go see a Doc ASAP...

Does it hurt when you point straight up as if a child asked you where is Heaven?
Does it hurt when you place your palm on the other shoulder?
Now with your palm on that other shoulder, point your elbow up and down... Does it hurt, especially when the elbow is pointed up?
Does it hurt when you put your palm on your inner thigh (Standing) and make a shrugging motion?
Does it hurt when you put your palm flat on your back between the shoulder blades?

***
If so it's more than likely that you have an AC injury... And I'm guessing if you feel pain where the "Upper Pec" attaches near the collar bone that it's probably an AC seperation... Or tear of the AC ligment. (The little ball on the top of your shoulder)

Now there could be some cause for concern if this is the case...
There are 6 grades of AC seperation...
Generally grade 1&2 can generally be healed with rest, 2-6 weeks depending on severtity... Getting a sling and some Anti-inflamatories from your doc, will help speed the healing...
A grade 3 seperation... 75% chance you'll need surgery. (I'm in the 25% case.)
Grade 4-6, your arm would be a worthless meat-club dangling from your torso, so you'd know it.

Generally a Doc can diagnose an AC injury with the motions I describe above, a palpation test (Where he wrenches your arm around) And a 4 or possibly 6 point X-Ray...
However there are some goddam Quacks out there... If you don't at least get taken in for an X-Ray, and it continues for longer than he diagnoses, don't hesitate to get a second oppinion... It took me until my 3rd doctor to get a completely accurate diagnoses, and it ended up tripling the time it took to heal!

***
I cannot emphasize enough how drop-dead-dip****-stupid it is to try to work that shoulder while it is still injured... Working an AC injury, even lightly while it is in it's Acute, or Early to Mid Chronic stages is about as smart as trying to shave your balls blind folded with a weed-whip!

Working an AC injury causes damage to the distal clavical, which results in a loss of subchronal bone mass... Which results in a form of Arthritis called "Osteolysis" Mild Osteolysis can be healed with time, and possibly a Cortisone shot. (Note Cortisone shot to the AC joint hurts so bad it will make you dream of hit in the nuts with a ballpeen hammer!)
Moderate to severe Osteolysis requires an operation where they remove 5-10 milimeter of bone from the distal clavical, and you spend the next 4-6 months letting your body fill the resected area with fibrous scar tissue...

So apply RICE... And make a Doctors appointment... It's going to be the fastest way back.

[$AJ]

take a few weeks off and let it heal.

[forcefedfreak]

Hmm...this sucks. It doesn't really hurt that bad. And in fact it didn't hurt nearly as much today as it did last week. So I think I'm just gonna go light on it the next few weeks. Any good chest exercises that won't aggrivate it?

[Smokeeater]

Hmm...this sucks. It doesn't really hurt that bad. And in fact it didn't hurt nearly as much today as it did last week. So I think I'm just gonna go light on it the next few weeks. Any good chest exercises that won't aggrivate it?

What's the deal? is 225 some kind of benchmark? Theres plenty of time for that IF you don't get hurt.Most guys who train for strength and actually progress without getting hurt,do it by NOT maxing out like that.let it heal up and then go about it correctly.5x5 or 6x6 are good systems for mass and strength. Learn about them and quit maxing out like that. Or,suffer the consequences (hopefully not).

[brute_aus]

i wouldnt even use light weight... if you not going to see a doc, at least complete rest is the best for these injuries.

take 2 weeks off any exercise involving shoulders (ie u should still be able to do biceps, legs etc), or until you cannot feel any sort of niggle in ur shoulder. you wont lose hardly any size if you keep ur protein intake up.

its better to take a break than cause permanent damage that will limit ur lifts in the future.

[forcefedfreak]

i wouldnt even use light weight... if you not going to see a doc, at least complete rest is the best for these injuries.

take 2 weeks off any exercise involving shoulders (ie u should still be able to do biceps, legs etc), or until you cannot feel any sort of niggle in ur shoulder. you wont lose hardly any size if you keep ur protein intake up.

its better to take a break than cause permanent damage that will limit ur lifts in the future.

****...this sucks. My training has been going so well, and i've seen awesome gains, and I'm so motivated, it's going to be hard to NOT work out.

[Dominik]

What's the deal? is 225 some kind of benchmark? Theres plenty of time for that IF you don't get hurt.

You raised an excellent point. Train for a year without any injuries and you're going to gain more strength than if you go for broke for 3 months, injure yourself (r/c, pec tear, etc.), and then spend the rest of the year trying to get back to where you were.

Besides, if the main goal is bodybuilding, as in building size, there's no need to chase numbers. Instead, see the weight as a tool to get the job done. And if the goal is strength, like you said, follow some carefully designed cycles for achieving those results rather than trying to set a PR every week.

[nacho]

Be careful about what you're doing. Like the rest of them have said, it's not going to hurt to rest it for a week (or more probably). Sometimes you have to just drop the ego and be more patient about your gains. I had something similar this summer happen to my rotator cuff and I forced myself to take off a month and a half before I even hit the weights again (went back to push ups after a month). If your muscles were conditioned enough before the injury you won't have much problem easing back into it and regaining. But if you do have trouble hitting the weight you finished at prior to the injury, it shows you weren't ready for it to begin with. (Jumping from 205 to 225 is a big leap in my experience). In the time you have recovering, use it to focus on strengthening and toning all the other groups you'd usually ignore that don't involve those muscles--ask the doc or physical therapist. Good luck.

[brute_aus]

****...this sucks. My training has been going so well, and i've seen awesome gains, and I'm so motivated, it's going to be hard to NOT work out.

indeed it does suck. we live and learn from our mistakes!

while your having some time off to keep it interesting maybe you can mix it up a bit on the exercises you can do, ie legs and biceps etc.

eg if you do heavy weights for low reps, then during your 2 or so weeks off, try lighter weights for higher reps and chase the biggest pump you can. Or do more sets than normal (within limits) to try and shock your bi's or legs. Do exercises that you dont usually do for those bodyparts etc. it makes a good oppurtunity to do things that you wouldnt normally do on a consistent basis.

[forcefedfreak]

Thanks for all the replies guys, reps on the house! I'm getting into BB a bit, but at the same time, I am still chasing numbers. I have been cycling my bench, and I'm coming towards the end of it (225) I don't just try to lift as much as I can every week. I think I am going to finish this week out with my normal routine (With the exception of thursday when I do my really heavy shoulder workout) and then take next week off, completely, just go for a walk everday or something. If I have the time/money go see a doctor, and maybe ice it a little bit/try to rest it as much as possible. After that week off I will start my bench cycle over again, go real light...maybe even take out flat BB bench and do DB for a few weeks.

[$AJ]

Hmm...this sucks. It doesn't really hurt that bad. And in fact it didn't hurt nearly as much today as it did last week. So I think I'm just gonna go light on it the next few weeks. Any good chest exercises that won't aggrivate it?

sometimes i get the feeling i'm talking with 5yr olds

[Nainoa]

Thanks for all the replies guys, reps on the house! I'm getting into BB a bit, but at the same time, I am still chasing numbers. I have been cycling my bench, and I'm coming towards the end of it (225) I don't just try to lift as much as I can every week. I think I am going to finish this week out with my normal routine (With the exception of thursday when I do my really heavy shoulder workout) and then take next week off, completely, just go for a walk everday or something. If I have the time/money go see a doctor, and maybe ice it a little bit/try to rest it as much as possible. After that week off I will start my bench cycle over again, go real light...maybe even take out flat BB bench and do DB for a few weeks.

Okay... Now I'm trying to help you hear bro...

Look at my Sig Mofo...

NO... Look... At my sig...
Grab yourself by the back of the head and mash your face into the monitor like you're a puppy scolding yourself for ****ting on the clean rug of your shoulder health...
Because that's what I'd be doing to you if I could reach through this monitor!

Now go back Scan through my first post in this thread and re-read the part where I refer to "Working the shoulder while injured is drop-dead-dip****-stupid..."

[forcefedfreak]

Okay... Now I'm trying to help you hear bro...

Look at my Sig Mofo...

NO... Look... At my sig...
Grab yourself by the back of the head and mash your face into the monitor like you're a puppy scolding yourself for ****ting on the clean rug of your shoulder health...
Because that's what I'd be doing to you if I could reach through this monitor!

Now go back Scan through my first post in this thread and re-read the part where I refer to "Working the shoulder while injured is drop-dead-dip****-stupid..."

I understand what you are saying. I did all those movements with my shoulder that you listed above, and I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. Like I said i'm going to take next week off from lifting completely, and if I have time/money go see a doctor. At least with a week off I can see where i'm at/how I'm feeling when I go to lift again. If it's still bothering me you can bet your ass i'm not even going to finish my workout.

sometimes i get the feeling i'm talking with 5yr olds

Why? It just sucks when mentally you are so prepared to train and eat properly, and you've been doing it for a few months, and then you hit a road block, especially right when you start to see visible gains. I know the shoulder takes a load no matter what exercises you are doing, and especially with chest exercises, but I don't pretend to be some kind of lifting guru, how do I know if there are chest exercises that don't put stress on the shoulder?

[nads786]

I understand what you are saying. I did all those movements with my shoulder that you listed above, and I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. Like I said i'm going to take next week off from lifting completely, and if I have time/money go see a doctor. At least with a week off I can see where i'm at/how I'm feeling when I go to lift again. If it's still bothering me you can bet your ass i'm not even going to finish my workout.



Why? It just sucks when mentally you are so prepared to train and eat properly, and you've been doing it for a few months, and then you hit a road block, especially right when you start to see visible gains. I know the shoulder takes a load no matter what exercises you are doing, and especially with chest exercises, but I don't pretend to be some kind of lifting guru, how do I know if there are chest exercises that don't put stress on the shoulder?

go to the powerlifting section and go to one of the injury stickies, maybe get an idea what kinda shoulder injury you have, ill tell you this i had a very minor shoulder problem last november and it jus recently went away, shoulder injuries can take time to heal, i made a mistake and kept working thru it and now it still hurts once in a while, jus take some time off, i was jus like you when i hurt my shoulder, i was finally seeing good gains and all my weights were goin up like crazy but i made a mistake thinking i could go through it, i ended up losing over a month instead of maybe 2weeks

[$AJ]

Why? It just sucks when mentally you are so prepared to train and eat properly, and you've been doing it for a few months, and then you hit a road block, especially right when you start to see visible gains. I know the shoulder takes a load no matter what exercises you are doing, and especially with chest exercises, but I don't pretend to be some kind of lifting guru, how do I know if there are chest exercises that don't put stress on the shoulder?

shoulders take a load on pretty much everything; legs, chest, back, tri, bi, etc..

if you're injured, you rest. i don't care how much progress you've made, if you're injured, you rest. it takes MONTHS for major atrophy to set in.

[nads786]

shoulders take a load on pretty much everything; legs, chest, back, tri, bi, etc..

if you're injured, you rest. i don't care how much progress you've made, if you're injured, you rest. it takes MONTHS for major atrophy to set in.

definitely, strength mite go away, but it takes awhile for muscle to go away

[forcefedfreak]

Aight well, I am going to see a really good chiro on saturday. See what he has to say about it. If I do indeed just need to rest my shoulder, it wouldn't be detrimental if I kicked up my cardio game and worked on getting my BF down would it? I mean no lifting just running or biking? I can see my biggest problem right now is i'm just too much in "go mode" I gotta step up my mental game, this might be a huge hurdle for me.

[$AJ]

no, but if you're otu for an extended period of time, i would just maintain, not try to lose bf % - a lot of maintaining while injured is keeping a good diet. now you through reducing calories into the mix and your body could be in shock.

[Nainoa]

Aight well, I am going to see a really good chiro on saturday. See what he has to say about it. If I do indeed just need to rest my shoulder, it wouldn't be detrimental if I kicked up my cardio game and worked on getting my BF down would it? I mean no lifting just running or biking? I can see my biggest problem right now is i'm just too much in "go mode" I gotta step up my mental game, this might be a huge hurdle for me.

I've always said "The biggest changes that come from BBing are mental."

You have to conquer your mind, will and you ego, before you can even have the slightest real success at conquering your body.

***
I don't see anything wrong with a "Mild" cutting process...
Don't go into some hog wild -600 cal/day hypo-caloric mega cut, of non-stop cardio...

I'm talking -200 cal/day and 3-4 hour long cardio sessions per week...

You don't want to tax your body's repair abilities...

[forcefedfreak]

Thanks for all the replies guys. My shoulder is feeling okay today, but it is definitely sensitive. Going to make sure I eat super super clean these next few weeks, and pump as many vitamins into my system as I can. I also think i'm going to ice this puppy a bit. And I'm going to see a doctor on Saturday, so I'll keep you posted on what he says.