attn designer supp reps, act. xtreme gyno??

[bhylton]

I've just marked 3 weeks on activate xtreme and have developed a sore lump underneath my left nipple. I've had a pubertal lump under my right ever since mid-teens, but it has seemingly gone away while on activate. But now there's one under my left. Its small, pea sized- but sore. I'm just curious as to what this could mean, and I am not attributing it to the activate solely, or whatsoever.

Otherwise, what a fantastic product this is. Its been 6 months since I rocked superdrol and haven't felt quite back to normal since (PCT was in check mind you). It was mainly my sex drive and strength progression that was lacking (not to mention losing 15 pounds, very frustrating, damn SD). But activate has turned that around like no other product I've tried. I've gotten noticeably leaner with a lack-luster diet, and stronger (school and work has been hectic, along with finals approaching this week). sex drive is through the sky, not just the roof.

[nni]

im going to bed, so i cant address this, but for the others, to recap, had possible gyno from puberty under the right nippls, did a cycle of superdrol 6 months ago, from your actX bottle, the right side has dissapeared, but now there is a small lump on the left side?

do me a favor, list any other supps you were taking, and what your superdrol pct was. did you use atd or another ai during pct?

im off. bump it in the morning.

[bhylton]

That would be correct. I used nolva week 1: 40mg 2: 30mg 3: 20 ed

Currently supplementing white flood and act. xtreme only. (besides protein & multi's). I used superpump directly after the cycle as well. Other than that I have not used anything else.

The weight/strength loss didn't start to occur until the 2nd or 3rd month after the cycle.

[bhylton]

anyone??

[nni]

so no AI in the pct? how long ago was your cycle?

[pa mma]

well in the write up it did say that the gyno thing could be a possibility just due to messing withhormones.....as far as the weight going down not till 2-3 months later...could possibly be a change needed in your routine.....

[bhylton]

Originally Posted by nni

so no AI in the pct? how long ago was your cycle?

scratch that. I also used letro. sorry I forgot to throw that in there. I forget now what dosage... Its been too long ago

[bhylton]

Originally Posted by pa mma

well in the write up it did say that the gyno thing could be a possibility just due to messing withhormones.....as far as the weight going down not till 2-3 months later...could possibly be a change needed in your routine.....

I agree with you here.

[haiz69]

Interesting. Especially since it went away on the right side.

What did the dosages of the letro look like?

[nni]

Originally Posted by pa mma

well in the write up it did say that the gyno thing could be a possibility just due to messing withhormones.....as far as the weight going down not till 2-3 months later...could possibly be a change needed in your routine.....

writeup for what, actX? gyno is not a real possibility unless you have gyno already, and in that case you shouldnt be messing with test boosters.

as for superdrol, sure it is possible, as is delayed gyno.

[bhylton]

Originally Posted by haiz69

Interesting. Especially since it went away on the right side.

What did the dosages of the letro look like?

Like I said, I can't remember what I used. But I took the advice of many respected members...

And you're right, its very odd. I had used letro in the past to try and get rid of the gyno on the right, it decreased substantially but was still there. Now its seemingly non-existent. damn my body.

[bhylton]

Originally Posted by nni

writeup for what, actX? gyno is not a real possibility unless you have gyno already, and in that case you shouldnt be messing with test boosters.

as for superdrol, sure it is possible, as is delayed gyno.

At what point does delayed gyno typically set in? I agree with you that it is possibly caused by the sd, but I just doubt that it is. 6 months later? seems like a long time..

[nni]

Originally Posted by bhylton

At what point does delayed gyno typically set in? I agree with you that it is possibly caused by the sd, but I just doubt that it is. 6 months later? seems like a long time..

i know, this is confusing, actX has a serm in it and gyno doesnt make sense to be honest, there was a delayed gyno thread where people complained of it months later, ph's arent my area, and i really didnt read the thread.

[bhylton]

bump... any help out there?

[Nsaladino]

Do you have any letro left?

[haiz69]

Originally Posted by bhylton

bump... any help out there?

I would go to the doctor. He will be able to tell you more than any of us.

[Sldge]

Sorry I didnt see this until now. There are a lot of misconceptions about gyno and superdrol. You cannot get gyno from using superdrol, it doesnt mean you cant get it later on because pct was not done correctly or that you used something else while on cycle that contributed to it but superdrol itself will act as a very mild AI. Now none of this really matters because you are having issues now.

It would help if I could get some more info. How long have you been using ACTX, how many caps per day have you been taking and if you remember when did your left nipple start to feel sore.

ACTX is very strong at boosting test but you shouldnt get gyno from it, its one of the reasons we used I3C in the product. But as test levels rise its possible to aggrevate a prexisting condition of gyno. You probably have had it the whole time in both sides of the chest but until your hormone levels were increased you werent aware of it.

Do you have any nolva and or letro left? Really what you need to do is slightly lower estrogen a little more while using ACTX and slowly come off the letro giving your body a chance to produce estrogen again but not letting it get out of control.

You would start the letro at a low dose, probably in the 250mcg range every other day. Start using the nolva at 30mgs per day take before you go to sleep. Run the letro at that dose for 10-then do se it every 2 days, then every 3 days and stop. Keep the Nolva going for atleast a week after your final dose of letro and then slowly start to taper down the dose of Nolva. from 30mgs a day, to 20mgs a day to 10mgs a day to 10mgs every other day and then stop. The tapering effect should ramp down very slow over the following 10 days and then you would be completely off everything. No ACTX, no nolva and no letro. Stay off anything that effects test or estrogen levels for atleast 6 weeks and then see how your chest feels.

You sound like that you might be like me, usually anything that I take that can effect my hormonal balance will increase the sensativity for my gyno. Because of that I prepare for it by using a low dose AI when using that type of product.

[neuron]

Originally Posted by bhylton

I've just marked 3 weeks on activate xtreme and have developed a sore lump underneath my left nipple. I've had a pubertal lump under my right ever since mid-teens, but it has seemingly gone away while on activate. But now there's one under my left. Its small, pea sized- but sore. I'm just curious as to what this could mean, and I am not attributing it to the activate solely, or whatsoever.

Estrogenic Nature of Icariin metabolites

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by triathelete04

Estrogenic Nature of Icariin metabolites

Links not coming up.

But to quote you "Although icariin has no estrogenic activity, both of its metabolites have been shown to bind and activate both ERa and ERb. In the presence of an ER antagonist, neither ICT nor DICT have substantial receptor activity, but in the presence of excess estrogen, the estrogen receptor is superstimulated."

You wont have excess estrogen while using Activate Xtreme. I3C is an estrogen antagonist and was included in the formula for various reasons but that being the main reason. http://www.thorne.com/media/Indole_mono10-4.pdf

[bhylton]

hey thanks guys, I've been out of power for the last 24 hours so. Finally made it to campus which is running on generators. Anyways I do have both letro and nolva left over. Thanks a TON for the dose reccomendations!

I took the Act. X at the recc. 4 caps/day; 2 AM, 2 PM.

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by bhylton

hey thanks guys, I've been out of power for the last 24 hours so. Finally made it to campus which is running on generators. Anyways I do have both letro and nolva left over. Thanks a TON for the dose reccomendations!

I took the Act. X at the recc. 4 caps/day; 2 AM, 2 PM.

Ok good. Start the low dose letro and nolva and just follow what I wrote out above. Take it slow though, you dont want estrogen getting too low.

[bhylton]

Originally Posted by Sldge

Ok good. Start the low dose letro and nolva and just follow what I wrote out above. Take it slow though, you dont want estrogen getting too low.

STILL without power! Its starting to get mighty cold in my house.

But I would have to agree sldge, I do seem to be very sensitive to gyno related issues. I am easily able to tell when my hormones change, or where they're lacking. The gyno is easily agitated, but it also goes away easily with a little help- I will for sure keep an AI in mind every time I decide to cycle anything hormonal related from now on.

Whats your AI of choice?

[bartenda]

bump.....

[nni]

Originally Posted by bartenda

bump.....

for?

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by bhylton

STILL without power! Its starting to get mighty cold in my house.

But I would have to agree sldge, I do seem to be very sensitive to gyno related issues. I am easily able to tell when my hormones change, or where they're lacking. The gyno is easily agitated, but it also goes away easily with a little help- I will for sure keep an AI in mind every time I decide to cycle anything hormonal related from now on.

Whats your AI of choice?

I like very low dosed 6-bromo. Take 1 cap every other day if possible. Normally I start out and go 5 days of a single cap then switch to eod dosing. It has very little negative effect on my sex drive as long as I dont take too much and it definitely decreases the size of my gyno the fastest. I wouldnt use it without ACTX though.

[browndustin]

Matt, did you not release SD before any other company? Could there be a possibility that the gyno aggravation was progestin related? I would imagine that nolva might inherently aggravate the gyno further if this is true, would it not?

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I've seen discussions regarding this on private forums and bromo and/or caber managed to hamper the gyno problems that people had incurred... I'm not too sure if this mysterious "delayed gyno" phenomenon should be as misunderstood as people make it out to be. I'm not positive if people are approaching this challenge the right way, but I'm far from an expert on the subject.

Maybe you have some more insight? Thanks for your posts thus far.

[Sldge]

I did. I dont think anyone is getting gyno from SD. Instead I think that because estrogen is already low when on SD (its acta as a mild AI) that when people started PCT they drove estrogen even lower, just because of how strong the current AIs are. Then eventually when they were done with PCT, estrogen rebounded to its normal level but because estrogen had been so low for so long some people developed or aggravated their gyno.

Progesterone cannot cause gyno unless it is in the prescence of estrogen, which if all people took was SD and or an AI there is no estrogen present for progesterone to interact with.

That all being said, Ive seen a lot of cycle and almost NO one used SD alone, that changes everything Ive posted above because now you have another hormone that has its own actions added to the mix.

What I think people would need to do now, is that after using SD you really need to allow estrogen production to come back up while in pct before you completely stop everything. I would low dose something like 6 bromo or atd in the way I mentioned in a previous post and then start something like ACTX because of the I3C we use in it. As you taper off the AI dose you will still be using ACTX for a couple weeks to follow then you come off ACTX.

Obviously nothing is foolproof and everyone is different so what works for one person may not always work exactly the same in the rest. Im someone who is very sensitive to estrogen and its side effects and the above approach is exactly how I would do a cycle and pct.

[browndustin]

Awesome. Thanks for your feedback.

I know that the popular protocols on the forum recommend starting PCT immediately after the cycle has ceased but people who use conventional AAS recognize the fact that this can be down right foolish. I started PCT immediately after my first solo run with SD and it ended horribly. I lost my "gains", but thankfully kept my strength and eventually recovered according to my blood work and general libido afterwards.

When I did another solo run and waited a little while before starting PCT (which was much less aggressive), PCT was smooth as a nut and there weren't any challenges aside from my lipid profile. Every time I use orals my liver values take less and less of a hit, so I'm feeling confident about using SD during my current cycle (conventional gear) for a couplel of weeks, again getting blood work just to be certain of things.

If I find any friends in the gym using SD I'll share this advice with them. When people use SD and test they never seem to have problems, but when they're running SD all by it's lonesome and then using tons of AI's and whatnot, we see people get a ton of gyno. Hopefully more anecdotal feedback will clear things up. I was really scared of SD after my liver values took a big hit but I think that was circumstantial. I loved the pumps and fullness I got from this AAS. It's been a love/hate relationship with this compound, but I'm starting to think it's one of the best orals in hindsight. Every oral is going to have it's challenges so it's best to become familiar with it and try minimizing these challenges.