Request for MrB

[devl]

Damn, you're really popular this week. Anyhow I have a request for you.

Lately you've been preaching to us beginners to do a full body workout three times a week or an upper/lower body split. I'm interested myself in the latter. The thing though is I work out at home and with money tight right now I'm pretty limited on equipment. The only thing I have is a flat bench, dumbbells and barbells. What kind of upper/lower body routine could you design for me? And heck while I'm at it what kind of three day full body routine could I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[MrB]

I'm "popular" because I'm "new. After another week, it'll be a different story. People will either [1] agree with what I say, or [2] be tired of hearing it. Then, it'll be time to move on. It's boring when everyone agrees/disagrees with what you say.

For a 3 day push/pull/leg split with no squat or power rack, I would go like this:

Mon -- Leg Day
Tues -- Rest
Wed -- Push Day
Thurs -- Rest Day
Fri -- Pull Day
Sat & Sun -- Enjoy the weekend.

Pull day, I'd do something like this (you do whatever you want, this is just an example)

Barbell rows
Chins (if possible) if not ... dumbbell or barbell pullovers
BB or DB Shrugs

Push Day:

BB or DB Bench Press
BB or DB Incline Press
BB or DB Shoulder Press
maybe DB upright rows if you feel the need (or maybe every other workout)
maybe pushups with elevated feet as a finisher
if you can find something to do dips on as a finishing move.

Leg/Hip day:

You don't have suat racks, so here it goes

Deadlifts (either BB or DB)
Step Ups w/ dumbbells in hand. Hold the dumbbells in each hands and step up onto a bench, and then step down. Repeat with the other leg leading. ... or ... do lunges.

Stiff-leg Deadlifts, either BB or DB.
1-leg calf-raise, use the bottom step of your stairs as equipment.

For sets and reps, it's up to you. Either use something like 5x5, 2-3 sets of 6-12 reps, or 3x10, whatever, just keep in within reason. Don't do German Volume Training (10 sets of 10 reps) on every execise.

Or a full body routine (which I prefer), you could do

BB or DB Bench Press
BB or DB Row
BB or DB overhead press
BB or DB pullovers (chins if you can find something to hand from)
BB or DB Deadlifts
DB Step-ups or lunges
DB Calf Raise
Ab work (probably best if done on pull day to relieve lower back pressure -- ab work stretches out the lower back)

Do that once every 3,4 or 5 days depending on how you feel. Pile on the weight whenever possible.

Again, the sets are up to you. If you're a high rep guy (8-15), then 2 sets is enough. If you're a moderate guy (6-8reps) then 3 sets is probably about right. If you're a low rep guy, the 5x5 can't be beat (it's actually 2 warm-up sets of 5 reps, and then 3 work sets of 5 reps with the same weight, when you can complete all 3 sets, up the weight by 5-10 pounds and repeat)

There ay go, sorry for the length.

[JimRW]

B,
Do you recommend a full-body split for ONLY beginners? I have been lifting seriously for several years, but I have grown tired of my 5-day split. The programs you outline are very similar to that in the Super Squats book. What do you think? Only for beginners or someone more "seasoned" but looking for new growth and mass?
Thanks.

[MrB]

I know pepole that are huge, strong, and have been training for 15+ that still use full body routines. Why? Because that's how they got big and strong.

I'm trying to be funny, but truth is full body routines are the most efficient and time-conserving way to get big and strong. They don't allow you to do exercises that don't give you the most bang-for-your-buck.

Use them anytime. Lots of guys use them for a while and then come back to them again after trying something else for a change. Just remember to spend most of your time on the basic exercises.

That's it. There are no real hardfast rules in lifting, just common sense guidelines.

At some point guys get so strong that they stop using full body routines, because they want to specialize on certain lifts (powerlifting) or bring up certain bodyparts that may be holding their appearance (bodybuilding) or a certain lift behind, so they specialize and break their training up.

The routines are almost exactly like Strossen's Super Squats, whcih are almost exactly like the routines from McCallum's Keys to Progress, which are almost exactly like Peary rader's (Ironman) routines, which are the results of the works by JC Hise and Mark Berry (1930s).

It's amazing, without creatine, anadrol, sterol nasal spray, one bodypart a day splits, leg press machines, etc these guys got big and strong all while working full time jobs. It just can't be possible (<-- sarcasm)

[fitnessdiva]

People get so worried about which exercise to do to hit which head of their muscles (which is impossible) that they get lost in oblivion. The basic exercises are what build you up, and anything else isn't worth the time and effort. You can't work out to get 'cut up' by doing more volume, you can't shape your muscles, you can't tone them. All you can do is make them bigger or smaller, and lose or gain fat. That's it, period. End of discussion. People get lost in all the glam that has come with commericialization of fitness/exercise that they have no idea what real weight training is and how the body really works. And how brutally simple it really is.

[Silverback]

You guys are great. Finally some people with commen sense.
Maybe we should get together and start are own site and spread the word to the people.
Old school training is were its at.

[fitnessdiva]

yeah

[devl]

Thanks for the reply B. Now just a quick follow up.

You mentioned doing incline press. All I have is a flat bench. Would guilotines be ok to put in place of incline press?

And

Would dumbbell squats work ok?

[Kane Fan]

there she goes again
telling us it's impossible to work one head of a muscle more then another...

[Silverback]

The problem is diva is right. You can not isolate different heads of the muscle. If you want to isolate a head then do the one between your shoulders and learn the truth instead of reading all the nonsense.

[MrB]

No ... fitnessdiva is saying that you cannot do an exercise that hits *only* one head.

For example, you can't do a leg exercise that hits only your vastus medialus.

What you can do is do an exercise that hits a higher % of your vastus medialus, but if you thought like that you're workouts would be 50 exercises. Not worth it.

You can't owrk "just one" part of your triceps, or "just one" head of a deltoid, or just one pec muscle, but you can select exercises that put more emphasis on one part or another, but synergy is always gonna take place. The body refuses to work as individual bodyparts. It's natural for muscles to work together.

[Kane Fan]

actually
you really can focus on one head mor ethen another
the most noticable example I can think of would be the shoulder
unless of course you would like to sit there and tell me front shoulder raises will work your side and rear delts
would you like to say that
hmmm?
fitnessdiva?
silverback?
anybody?

no? I thought not
next time, don't be so judgmental and arrogant, give me a bit more respect next time because I don't belive JACK **** that I read or hear
I belive it when *I* see/feel/notice it
and I don't really like being told I'm wrong when I know I am right and would be GLAD to prove it

unless of course your going to tell me something strange about front shoulder raises working the rear delts
in wich case I'll just have to laugh.....hard

[MOD]

front raises do work the lateral delts champ.

[fitnessdiva]

All heads of the shoulder will be hit sufficiently from a routine that emphasizes all major muscle groups of the upperbody.
Namely the chest and back. If you do an overhead press, and bench press, pullup and a rowing exercise, you will not need further exercises to 'hit' any other head of the shoulders. Especially if you work hard, which oh so many people don't.

[Kane Fan]

shhhh quiet mod
your supposed to agree with *ME* )

besides they work the side delts do in a front shoulder raise is very minimal
so the point is still right there being a fact, waiting to be realized by some.....the names will not be mentioned to protect the arrogant


indeed so then I guess you will stop arguing with me about targeting a given head of a muscle now?

[~jAmeZ~]

The stimulation of the medial deltoids during front raises is not "minimal". I have seen this tested using EMG equipment. While the work performed by the side delts is less than during lateral raises, it is significantly more than pressing movements and definitely enough to stimulate growth.

However, the point remains that the multi-joint exercises are quicker at stimulating growth than single-joint exercises, which many ppl use because they think it helps them "isolate" a particular muscle.

Seeing as you can't isolate a muscle, why waste time with many individual exercises when you can acheive faster results in shorter time with a few? As many posters said, if you press and pull, you don't need exercises like front raises. You can hit all "heads" as well as the rest of ur body and get out of the gym before midnight.

[Kane Fan]

and this affects the FACT that you can focus a given lift on one head of the shoulder and not the others (most notably the posterior deltoid) how
oh wait it dosn't
I'm still right

[Big Daddy Shane]

I never do isolation exercises. I do however perform military press, bent rows, wide chins, and incline press, using very heavy weights. My shoulders are nicely developed. If you think that military press doesn't target the whole deltoid, put some decent weight on the bar, and use a bit of intensity. If you still can't feel the medial and rear delts being used, you may have to correct your form. If you concentrate on the big exercises, and lift big weights, you will get big. Don't use a spoon to dig a hole, ya dig?
If you're still not convinced, look at Olympic weightlifters. They have great shoulders right? How many lateral raises and bent lateral raises do you think they perform? I'd say none. Yet they do clean and jerk big weights and have the shoulders to match.
Think about it dude,
BDS.

[~jAmeZ~]

Originally posted by Kane Fan
and this affects the FACT that you can focus a given lift on one head of the shoulder and not the others (most notably the posterior deltoid) how
oh wait it dosn't
I'm still right

Kane, nobody in this post has ever disputed that you can make certain muscle "heads" work harder than others.

I suggest you read MrB's post again concerning the vastus medialus. This all started when you misinterpreted what Fitnessdiva said.

However, you are treading a fine line when you speak about "focusing" on a muscle. You really sound to me like you started off by arguing for "isolation" exercises.....because every time you talked about "focus" you gave an example of a single-joint exercise like dumbbell raises.

You certainly sound like you are arguing for "isolation" when you say "unless of course you would like to sit there and tell me front shoulder raises will work your side and rear delts".

Well.....yes....I did just sit there and tell you that front raises work your side delts.

However, it is possible to "focus" on a muscle no matter what exercise you do, because there is always going to be a particular muscle doing the greater % of the work. This is what everyone has already said....it doesn't matter whether it is military presses or front raises.

But if ur last post is any indication, u act like u didn't mean "isolation" after all. And seeing as everyone here ALREADY AGREES that one head can do a greater % of work than another, WHAT IS UR PROBLEM????????