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  1. #1
    MET-Rx Team Sports MCWTRAINER's Avatar
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    Dextrose vs. Maltodextrin vs. Oats

    Dextrose vs. Maltodextrin vs. Oats


    What is the difference between Maltodextrin and Dextrose?

    TASTE, maltodextrin has an extremely weak sweetness to it. Plus it doesn't mix as well as dextrose. Dextrose on the other hand is very sweet and DISAPPEARS in water when stirred with a spoon. Hence, it is very friendly to the user. Adding dextrose to creatine makes it taste good and mix easily. Both are derived from corn strach which gives them their high glycemic level rating. But maltodextrin is complex and dextrose is simple.


    Dextrose

    Dextrose is required to create the quickest and highest insulin spike for maximum glycogen uptake by muscle cells.

    Dextrose is derived from corn starch, (very similar to maltodextrin)It is produced by the enzyme conversion of corn starch and refined by ion-exchange demineralization. Dextrose is a fine white powder, hygroscopic and dissolves in water instantly (disappears).

    Dextrose is a high glycemic carbohydrate that should be used for pre or post workout supplementation. The objective in using dextrose is to cause a rapid increase in insulin levels thus shuttling amino acids into the muscle cells. This method of combining carbohydrates and protein before and after workouts has been proven numerous times over and over again in research studies. Taking protein in conjunction with carbohydrates produces greater muscle gains and creates an anabolic effect better than taking protein or carbohydrates alone.

    Research patented by a supplement company showed that combining 75 grams of dextrose with 5-10 grams of creatine and 200mg of ALA showed to increase the effectiveness of creatine monohydrate. Or 100 grams of dextrose with 5-10 grams of creatine will increase the effectiveness.


    Maltodextrin

    Maltodextrin is used for slow energy release. This combination of carbohydrates ensures energy levels are sustained over prolonged periods of time.

    Maltodextrin has the ability to replace glycogen stores quickly and spare amino acid catabolism giving you energy over a sustained period of time. Maltodextrins are easily digestible carbohydrates made from natural corn starch. The starch is cooked, and then acid and/or enzymes are used to break the starch into smaller polymers (a process similar to that used by the body to digest carbohydrate). Maltodextrins are generally sold as dried powders. Maltodextrins are polymers of dextrose (sometimes labeled "glucose polymers"). Maltodextrins do not contain significant quantities of protein, fat or fiber.

    Maltodextrins are not produced from and do not contain malt products. Corn-based maltodextrins are safe for patients with celiac disease since they do not contain proteins from wheat, barley, oats or rye. Maltodextrins are not known to contain MSG. Diabetics should follow the advice of their physicians. Maltodextrin’s glycemic index should be considered metabolically equivalent to glucose (dextrose). A complex carb derived from corn starch that is used in many MRP's.Instead of containing mostly disaccarides like most complex carbs, maltodextrin contains mostly Tetrasaccarides or higher.Pure maltodextrin also contains small amounts of dextrose and sugar.
    Translocation of GLUT4 can also occur due to muscular contractions (2). So, weight lifting alone increases muscular insulin sensitivity - called insulin independent glucose uptake. Because of this fact, this time is ideal to take advantage of the nutrient partitioning (basically means where the nutrients go) effects of training. So, ideally we’re looking at a quick digesting carbohydrate to replenish the glycogen used while training and a quicker digesting protein to provide amino acids due to the increased protein synthesis that comes after training (for up to 36 hours (3)). The quickest digesting carbohydrate, glucose - also known as dextrose or corn sugar or even grape sugar - is probably the best idea. It’s also very cheap, especially if bought in bulk. Maltodextrin is also a good available source. It is known as a ‘complex carbohydrate’, purely on the grounds that it is a glucose polymer consisting of about 3-8 molecules. It is therefore too long to be classed as ‘simple’, and since there is no mid-classification, complex it is. This doesn’t stop it from digesting very quickly and doing the same job to insulin that glucose does. Maltodextrin is also a carbohydrate exploited by supplement companies for this very reason. They can claim it is a complex carb and it’s great in their MRPs. In all truth, it is the guar gum that they put in these products that slow digestion, not the maltodextrin. Any other time of day, just like glucose, it is a poor choice.

    Once you’ve got the basic idea of a simple sugar post-workout, then you can experiment using different combinations of glucose and maltodextrin. It is usually recommended to make a 50/50 mix of the two, based on the differing absorption rates of the two carbs. Glucose requires no digestion and so once in the intestinal tract can pass straight through the wall lining. Maltodextrin, however, requires a bit of digestion to split it into the glucose molecules that make it up. The difference of digestion is not really that much in the way of time, but can make a big difference. This is because glucose enters the cell via active transport (4) and only so much can get through at any one time once the receptors are all being utilised. By taking in maltodextrin, the longer digestion and absorption rate means the glucose from the malto is getting to the cell more or less once the first glucose molecules are in. So you’re basically ‘lining the glucose up’.
    This complex carbohydrate is otherwise known as a glucose polymer. Maltrodextrin has the highest rating on the glycemic index of 100. Texture is a fine white powder possessing a bland taste and excellent dispersion in water or other beverages. Maltodextrin increases the mixability of protein powders when added to them.

    Typical Analysis of 100 grams
    Base Common Starch
    Moisture 5.0 %
    Dextrose Equivalent 18.0

    Total Carbohydrates - 93.8 gms
    Sugars 9.1 gms
    Protein 0.1 gms
    Calories 368
    Sodium 62.3

    Carbohydrate Composition
    Monosaccharides 4.5 %
    Disaccharides 4.5 %
    Trisaccharides 4.5 %
    Tetrasaccarides & higher 86.5 %

    Maltodextrin is most commonly found in the once popular "weight gain" formulas and now in "Meal Replacement Powders". Maltodextrin should be used by anyone wishing to increase their muscle mass and strength, without the complications of simple sugars. The most important use for maltodextrin is post-workout. Maltodextrin has the ability to replace glycogen stores quickly and spare amino acid catabolism. Maltodextrin will raise one insulin level, making them more apt to absorb more nutrients. Takes the guess work out of carbohydrate intake after workouts. Also recommended for bodybuilders on low carbohydrate diets to prevent glyconeogenesis, though timing is crucial. Maltodextrin is also used to increase vascularity of the muscle and give one the "pumped" look.
    Matt Weik, BS, CSCS, CPT, CSN
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  2. #2
    MET-Rx Team Sports MCWTRAINER's Avatar
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    Oats

    Originally Posted by Pu12en12g
    Claims

    - Helps decrease blood cholesterol levels
    - Soothes skin irritated by eczema, dryness, minor burns, or other conditions
    - Promotes relaxation
    - Traditionally, oats have been used to treat nervous exhaustion and insomnia
    - Aids in nicotine withdrawal

    Theory

    Any medicinal qualities of oats can be attributed to the seeds of the plant that contain chemicals called alkaloids (thought to account for the relaxing effect of oat supplementation) and saponins. The seeds are also rich in iron, manganese, and zinc, and oat straw is high in silica. Its high fiber content is thought to contribute to the cholesterol-lowering effect of eating oatmeal on a regular basis.

    Scientific Support

    The majority of scientific studies performed with oats relate to their role in helping to lower blood cholesterol, particularly LDL (“bad”) cholesterol. Oats, like psyllium (used in Metamucil and other laxatives) and pectin are all types of soluble fiber. In one study, after only 3 servings of oatmeal, levels of LDL cholesterol were decreased slightly. However, this effect was not different from the effect of either psyllium or pectin fibers. Other studies support the use of eating oatmeal for lowering cholesterol levels, particularly in individuals with high cholesterol. It is important to note that an overall healthy diet is required – oatmeal ingestion cannot counteract high intake of animal fats containing cholesterol

    Safety

    Oatmeal has high nutritional value at every stage of life. Furthermore, oats have not been associated with any adverse effects.

    Value

    Avena sativa is sold in tablet, liquid pellet, and in extract form, and can be quite pricey. It makes more sense, from both nutritional and financial perspectives, to buy a box of oatmeal and to eat it for breakfast, to make or buy oat bran cereal or muffins, or to sprinkle oat bran onto your favorite foods and soups. As an aid for irritated skin, many specialty soaps contain oats, as do many bath soaks (such as Aveeno).

    Dosage

    In addition to eating oats in the form of oatmeal as a breakfast cereal, oats can be made into a tea by boiling one heaping tablespoon with a cup of water. Many forms of oat supplements can be purchased at health food stores.

    Oats have saponins(such as avenacosides), flavonoids, minerals, alkaloids (such as gramine and avenine), steroidal compounds, vitamins B1, B2, D, E, carotene, gluten, starch and fat. All of these make oats an excellent nerve tonic to recover from nervous exhaustion due to stress, depression, lethargy, or as a preventative in difficult times to cope better. Oatmeal is also useful externally to relieve itching from rashes such as chicken pox, eczema, cold sores, and shingles.


    [b]Effect of Avena Sativa (oat bran) enriched diet on the atherogenic lipid profile in patients with an increased coronary heart disease risk.[b]

    AIM: To study whether an Avena Sativa bran enriched diet has a specific effect in lowering total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterols, in addition to caloric and fat restriction. We performed a randomized, controlled, parallel-group, single-centre study in which 1,994 patients from the Wehrawald Hospital were screened and 235 met the criteria male gender, hypercholesterolemia, and overweight. All patients in the Hospital took part in a 4-week standardized inpatient lifestyle health program consisting of dietary intervention, increased physical activity, and health education. Caloric restriction, fat modification, and Avena Sativa bran supplementation were part of the nutritional regimen within the lifestyle health program. Ninety-nine patients were randomized to a fat-modified diet with caloric restriction and a daily intake of 35-50 g Avena Sativa bran and 136 patients to a fat-modified, Avena Sativa-free diet with caloric restriction. Fifty-three male overweight but normocholesterolemic subjects were selected as controls.

    RESULTS: The most significant decreases in total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and apolipoprotein B were found with the combination of the fat-modified and Avena Sativa enriched food.

    CONCLUSIONS: Added to a fat-modified diet, Avena Sativa bran within a practical range of intake significantly reduces total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and apolipoprotein B.


    A Brief History of Oats - And How You Should Eat Them
    By By John K. Williams, Ph.D.
    First published at www.johnberardi.com, Sept 5 2003.


    Despite their widespread praise by nutritionists and bodybuilders alike, oats have a humble origin. They were the last of the major cereal grains to be domesticated, around 3,000 years ago in Europe, and apparently originated as weeds that grew within cultivated fields of various other crops.

    Part of the reason why people were slow to embrace oats is because they go rancid very quickly, due to the presence of natural fats and a fat dissolving enzyme present in the grain. As a result, they have to be processed immediately after harvesting. The fats in oats are relatively healthy, with a lipid breakdown of 21% saturated, 37% monounsaturated, and 43% polyunsaturated.

    Greeks and Romans considered oats to be nothing more than a diseased version of wheat. Oats were a lowly horse food for the Romans, who scoffed at the "oat-eating barbarians", or those pesky Germanic tribes who eventually toppled the West Roman Empire. Come to think of it, the Romans were never able to conquer the Scots. Big oat eaters, those Scots. Oats 2, Romans 0.

    Even today, less than 5% of the oats now grown commercially are for human consumption. The chief value of oats remains as a pasturage and hay crop, especially for horses. Thousands of years and several empires later, most people still haven’t caught-on.

    Oats, What’s So Good About Them?

    Oats contain more soluble fiber than any other grain. Soluble fiber is the kind that dissolves in water, so the body turns it into a kind of thick, viscous gel, which moves very slowly through your body. One of the benefits is that your stomach stays fuller longer, providing satiety. Soluble fiber also slows the absorption of glucose into the body, which means you're going to avoid those nasty sugar highs and lows. Last but not least, it inhibits the re-absorption of bile into the system, forcing your liver to get its cholesterol fix from your blood. This serves to lower your blood-serum cholesterol. See what the Romans were missing?

    Oats also have anti-inflammatory properties, and have been clinically shown to help heal dry, itchy skin. Oats are also highly absorptive, hypoallergenic, and help to soften skin, if you’re into that kind of thing. They have the best amino acid balance of all the cereal grains, and thus can be used as water-binding agents in skin care products. Oat grains and straw appear in shampoos, dusting powders, moisturizers, cleansing bars, breast implants, and astronaut suits. OK, maybe those last two are figments of my imagination.

    Varieties of Oats

    From least to most processed:

    Oat groats, or whole oats: These are minimally processed, only by removing the outer hull. They are very nutritious, but need to be cooked and/or soaked for a long period of time to so you don’t break your teeth on them.

    Oat bran: This is the outer casing that is removed from the groats. The bran is particularly high in soluble fiber. Oat bran is very versatile, and can be used with groats or alone, and as an addition to baking recipes, or even raw in shakes.

    Steel-cut oats, or Irish oats: These are groats that have been chopped into small pieces. They have a firmer texture than rolled oats, and people in the know often prefer them for hot oatmeal cereals and muesli. A tip on purchasing steel-cut oats: some of the name brand varieties are prohibitively expensive, so search for them in bulk, where you can fill an entire tub of protein powder (empty it first!) for $5 US.

    Rolled oats, or old-fashioned oats: These are oat groats that are steamed and flattened with huge rollers so that they cook quicker, in about 5 to 15 minutes.

    Quick oats: These are groats that have been cut into several pieces before being steamed and rolled into thinner flakes, thus reducing the cooking time to 3-5 minutes. While they cook quicker, any oat aficionado will tell you that they lack the hearty texture and nutty flavor of the less-processed varieties.

    Instant oats: These are made by chopping groats into tiny pieces, precooking them, drying them, then smashing them with a big roller. They need only be mixed with a hot liquid. They usually have flavorings and salt added. All of this processing removes all traces of the original texture and rich flavor of the groats.

    Oat flour: Oat flour is made from groats that have been ground into a powder, and contains no gluten so it does not rise like wheat flour. It can also be made at home by grinding rolled oats into a powder in a blender.
    Last edited by MCWTRAINER; 10-08-2005 at 02:13 PM.
    Matt Weik, BS, CSCS, CPT, CSN
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  3. #3
    Registered User cxm's Avatar
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    Will a pre-workout meal of oats and whey protein be ideal and for a post workout a 50-50 mix (dextrose and malto.) with whey protein be optimal?
    By the way, great information thanks.
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    Eats Carbs Steve_W's Avatar
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    Dextrose is a high glycemic carbohydrate that should be used for pre or post workout supplementation.
    No.
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  5. #5
    Registered User BluSilver's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve_W
    No.
    Maybe it should have read:"The only times it might be acceptable to use are immediately pre and post workout."

    Actually, I'm having the best results with Dex during and Low GI everywhere else.
    On top of my game, and it don't stop til my hip don't hop anymore.
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    Eats Carbs Steve_W's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BluSilver
    Maybe it should have read:"The only times it might be acceptable to use are immediately pre and post workout."

    Actually, I'm having the best results with Dex during and Low GI everywhere else.
    Well, "should" is the wrong word. Many people including myself have far better results with a whole grain source of CHO both pre and post workout. I'm not saying dextrose is "wrong" if you choose to go that route, but it is far from mandatory. I'm big on nutrient density where ever possible personally.

    Bodybuilders are not endurance athletes. No studies back up dextrose compared to other CHO sources. It is PROVEN that "faster" glycogen replenishment doesn't = better in the post exercise window.
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    Chemically Imbalanced Wanker527's Avatar
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    dextrose preworkout is a terrible idea
    "Oderint dum metuant." -Lucius Accius
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    Registered User Rippd's Avatar
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    This subject has been beaten to death. There are many threads on it already, why do we have another one?
    Rep system sucks, we all agree, the only ones who really use it are idiots who think it makes a difference
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    Eats Carbs Steve_W's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rippd
    This subject has been beaten to death. There are many threads on it already, why do we have another one?
    Not sure.

    You have to be stupid not to know the difference between oats, dextrose and maltodextrin anyway. This thread is stupid.
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    Originally Posted by Steve_W
    Not sure.

    You have to be stupid not to know the difference between oats, dextrose and maltodextrin anyway. This thread is stupid.
    If this thread is stupid to you, then why did you even bother making comments.
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    Originally Posted by cxm
    If this thread is stupid to you, then why did you even bother making comments.
    Because there are too many of these threads on the board and it clutters it up
    Rep system sucks, we all agree, the only ones who really use it are idiots who think it makes a difference
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    Do instant (pre-cooked) oats lose some of the nutriets that might otherwise be present in steel-cut oats or oat flour?
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    I am new to this forum, so this information is new to me. I did know what dextrose, malt. , and oats are I just did not know the specifics. Maybe someone can set up the basics for new people in a thread that will direct through information (a sticky).
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    Originally Posted by cxm
    I am new to this forum, so this information is new to me. I did know what dextrose, malt. , and oats are I just did not know the specifics. Maybe someone can set up the basics for new people in a thread that will direct through information (a sticky).
    There are stickies already in place. Go to the nutrition section.
    Rep system sucks, we all agree, the only ones who really use it are idiots who think it makes a difference
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    Originally Posted by cxm
    I am new to this forum, so this information is new to me. I did know what dextrose, malt. , and oats are I just did not know the specifics. Maybe someone can set up the basics for new people in a thread that will direct through information (a sticky).
    Well maybe you should have a look in the nutrition forum or use the search feature which will pull up hundreds of threads.
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    Rippd and Steve thanks for the info, greatly appreciated.
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    Originally Posted by MCWTRAINER
    Research patented by a supplement company showed that combining 75 grams of dextrose with 5-10 grams of creatine and 200mg of ALA showed to increase the effectiveness of creatine monohydrate. Or 100 grams of dextrose with 5-10 grams of creatine will increase the effectiveness.
    Hmm.... Got Cell-Tech?
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    Smile

    yeah I have $80.00 to waste
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    Originally Posted by cxm
    yeah I have $80.00 to waste
    Yea, I was saying you should buy Cell-Tech.

    Originally Posted by Straight off teh ****in Cell Tech Label
    -Sugars: 75 g

    Crea-Edge: 10 g
    (Creatine monohydrate)

    Lipoic-Tech: 200 mg
    Alpha lipoic Acid
    The ingredients in Cell-Tech are the same as what the ''patented research done by a supplement company'' had.
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    release speed: ----dextrose = fast---- malto = medium ----- oats = slow ----
    right?
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  21. #21
    Registered User cxm's Avatar
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    0.02 cents per 10grs of creatine monohydrate
    1000 Grams 100 servings at 10 grs
    $19.99
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/creatine.html
    0.27 cents per 75 grs of dextrose
    2 lbs. (12 servings)
    $3.25
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/dex.html
    0.14 cents per 300mg of alpha lipoic acid
    300mg/180 Capsules
    $25.49
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/ala.html

    Grand total 0.43 cents per serving
    This includes: 10gr of creatine monohydrate
    75gr of dextrose
    300mg of ALA

    Lets look at Cell-Tech:
    Container Size: 6.7 Lbs.
    Serving Size: 2 Scoops (98.5g)
    Servings Per Container: 30
    For $57.49 at Bodybuilding

    57.49/30 = $1.92 per serving
    This includes: 10gr of creatine monohydrate
    75gr of dextrose
    200mg of ALA
    Conclusion customers pay over 4 times for a pretty label.
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  22. #22
    Dieting Down BringnIt's Avatar
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    release speed: ----dextrose = fast---- malto = medium ----- oats = slow ----

    Fast/almost as Fast/slow.
    Speller Extraordinaire. Don't believe the lies.
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    Originally Posted by cxm
    0.02 cents per 10grs of creatine monohydrate
    1000 Grams 100 servings at 10 grs
    $19.99
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/creatine.html
    0.27 cents per 75 grs of dextrose
    2 lbs. (12 servings)
    $3.25
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/dex.html
    0.14 cents per 300mg of alpha lipoic acid
    300mg/180 Capsules
    $25.49
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/ala.html

    Grand total 0.43 cents per serving
    This includes: 10gr of creatine monohydrate
    75gr of dextrose
    300mg of ALA

    Lets look at Cell-Tech:
    Container Size: 6.7 Lbs.
    Serving Size: 2 Scoops (98.5g)
    Servings Per Container: 30
    For $57.49 at Bodybuilding

    57.49/30 = $1.92 per serving
    This includes: 10gr of creatine monohydrate
    75gr of dextrose
    200mg of ALA
    Conclusion customers pay over 4 times for a pretty label.

    Wow, you've really just wasted you're fuckin time.

    The post went over your head. The damn study showed the effects of 10g CM, 75g dex, 200mg of ALA and all I said was it sounds like the ingredients of Cell-Tech. Thanks for wasting my time and yours.
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    Registered User margo's Avatar
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    I'm new to the board also and although I thought I browsed a lot of areas I didn't know some of this info. I was using my energy gels as a creatine chaser now it seems like this is not a good idea. I didn't know all of that oat info either. Thanks for posting it!
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    Originally Posted by Rippd
    This subject has been beaten to death. There are many threads on it already, why do we have another one?
    Because we were asked to have one on all 3 products...
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    Originally Posted by Rippd
    Because there are too many of these threads on the board and it clutters it up
    Yeah.. you hate threads where you get your ass handed to you

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=347477
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    MET-Rx Team Sports MCWTRAINER's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Yeah.. you hate threads where you get your ass handed to you

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=347477
    LOL. Busted!
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  28. #28
    Eats Carbs Steve_W's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MCWTRAINER
    LOL. Busted!
    At least he doesn't post continuous pointless threads like this one.

    Info on carbonation? What a waste of bandwidth space.
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  29. #29
    MET-Rx Team Sports MCWTRAINER's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve_W
    At least he doesn't post continuous pointless threads
    You mean like every single post of yours? Nice try bud... Back to your cave.
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  30. #30
    Eats Carbs Steve_W's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MCWTRAINER
    You mean like every single post of yours? Nice try bud... Back to your cave.
    a) I'm not your bud.

    b) I'm smarter than you'll ever be.

    c) You start continuous pointless threads in which you copy and paste things, that not many people will bother to take the time to read. "To help out the newbies" i.e. to kiss up to pu and all the other "big boys". Yeah nice try, I can see straight through you.
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