Views of value of power clean & press

[Renaissance68]

Whilst I have played around with the clean and press in the past I have never really stuck with it due to conflicting views on its utility and safety. Some say a great power and mass builder, others say builds power but no size, others that such 'ballistic' movements should be avoided and are begging for injuries.

I love compound movements and am looking for something new to do for all over power, but also some added size and strength in the traps & delts. What are peoples experiences/views on the clean and press (those who have serriously used it please). Also, what rep and set scheme worked best? 5x5, lower reps? Say triples?

Any views, tips most appreciated.

[tarun_s]

i use cleans in my work out like once a week. it helps your power development a lot. and it added mass on my traps. other than that, i dont see any mass developing, but i train it for volleyball, and i find i can jump higher and stay up there longer after incorporating cleans.
the rep scheme i use is mostly 5x5. once i go really heavy, its more like 5x2.

[jdmalm123]

I did C&P at one point for 2 months.
Not a lot of mass added from the clean portion, but the pushpress added almost 2 inches to my shoulders and 10 lbs to my 1RM bench.

[BOLT.]

They are a safe exercise if you do them right. They are also a great mass builder in the shoulders, traps, back, and legs. The problem with them in bodybuilding is it's hard to find a place to put them in your typical bodybuilding routine.

[.aeterna]

love them, they are integral to my shoulder workout

[Renaissance68]

Originally Posted by BOLT.

They are a safe exercise if you do them right. They are also a great mass builder in the shoulders, traps, back, and legs. The problem with them in bodybuilding is it's hard to find a place to put them in your typical bodybuilding routine.

Thats part of my problem, being as they hit delts, traps, back, hams, glutes and calves. But thanks for the feedback.

[Renaissance68]

Originally Posted by tarun_s

i use cleans in my work out like once a week. it helps your power development a lot. and it added mass on my traps. other than that, i dont see any mass developing, but i train it for volleyball, and i find i can jump higher and stay up there longer after incorporating cleans.
the rep scheme i use is mostly 5x5. once i go really heavy, its more like 5x2.

Thanks for that, it's a helpful comment as I was also condiering its use to aid in general power and also transferable improvements in explosive strength. Sounds as if you have experienced that, so that's helpful.

[crackyflipside]

All I know is working clean and push press has developed my traps a ton.

[BOLT.]

Originally Posted by Renaissance68

Thats part of my problem, being as they hit delts, traps, back, hams, glutes and calves. But thanks for the feedback.

That's why they're not a very popular exercise. But as far as effectiveness, they rank right on up there with squats, deadlifts, DB bench, rows, etc.

[UtahRocks]

Do them, this is a no brainer, they're great for power and strength. Dont pay attention to the idiots who say they're unsafe.

[Renaissance68]

Originally Posted by UtahRocks

Do them, this is a no brainer, they're great for power and strength. Dont pay attention to the idiots who say they're unsafe.

Heard enough. Just needing confiramtion. They're in. Thanks.

[Tyro]

They are a great exercises no doubt when done right, I teach many athletes cleans and hang cleans but some just cant get the hang right. If you are to star doing besides the fact they are great for purposes of explosiveness make sure you learn proper form, film your self or get good critique from ssomeone who knows that they are doing.

[RU4A69]

The only problem is they are HELLA demanding, and can cut into recovery from other (better) mass builders. They're great for sports, though.

[crackyflipside]

Originally Posted by Renaissance68

Heard enough. Just needing confiramtion. They're in. Thanks.

I hope your traps are ready... seriously.

After every Oly lift day my traps are ridiculously sore and it's not like I have real small traps either.

[MaxxBot]

Cleans have REALLY been a big mass builder for my traps. I really don't do any direct trap work, but just cleans seem to have done the job nicely. My traps are larger proportionally than most of my other muscles.

EDIT: And for them being unsafe, you just need someone who knows their stuff to teach you the form. Chances out when you start out you won't really be able to do enough weight to really hurt yourself in the first place. Just take it slow and use good form and you'll be fine.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by RU4A69

The only problem is they are HELLA demanding, and can cut into recovery from other (better) mass builders.

if your conditioning isn't what it should be (working muscles once a week does that to you )

if you're just doing presses I don't see a need to clean the weight, do them off a rack, you'll lift more.

now if you're looking for strength, explosiveness, and athletic carryover then hell yeah give 'em a ride.

[Hard Drive]

Clean and press has a good fit in any routine.

Higher reps and focus on the muscles can build amazing size in the shoulders, stat chasing can shoot up your upper body power.

Any weight lifting can be good or bad, so don't worry about safety. Just do it in a way that works for you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[J.L.C.]

Originally Posted by Kalt

Clean and press has a good fit in any routine.

Higher reps and focus on the muscles can build amazing size in the shoulders, stat chasing can shoot up your upper body power.

Any weight lifting can be good or bad, so don't worry about safety. Just do it in a way that works for you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

High reps are a bad idea with o-lifts.

Cleans are a great exercise, but aren't the best fit for bodybuilding purposes IMO. If you're after 'mass' there are easier ways to go about getting it.

Learning to clean/power clean properly takes time, and a lot of it.

Jumping-reverse-curl-upright-rows are a recipe for injury, so if you want to do cleans, take the time to learn the movement correctly.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

High reps are a bad idea with o-lifts.

Cleans are a great exercise, but aren't the best fit for bodybuilding purposes IMO. If you're after 'mass' there are easier ways to go about getting it.

Learning to clean/power clean properly takes time, and a lot of it.

Jumping-reverse-curl-upright-rows are a recipe for injury, so if you want to do cleans, take the time to learn the movement correctly.

One can modify the lift to serve a different purpose.

We've discussed this quite a few times, a wide grip upright row that brings the bar into the negative position of a military press is known as a clean, and the press is known as a press, hence: clean and press. It doesn't have to be explosive, the movement itself is a very stimulating movement for muscle development.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by Kalt

One can modify the lift to serve a different purpose.

We've discussed this quite a few times, a wide grip upright row that brings the bar into the negative position of a military press is known as a clean, and the press is known as a press, hence: clean and press. It doesn't have to be explosive, the movement itself is a very stimulating movement for muscle development.

NO

[Kiknskreem]

Originally Posted by Kalt

One can modify the lift to serve a different purpose.

We've discussed this quite a few times, a wide grip upright row that brings the bar into the negative position of a military press is known as a clean, and the press is known as a press, hence: clean and press. It doesn't have to be explosive, the movement itself is a very stimulating movement for muscle development.

If you are dong a wide grip upright row.... that is not a clean.

A clean is inherently explosive.


"Place your hands on the bar with a grip that is just outside the width of your hips. Keep your back flat and your shoulders over the bar in the bottom position. Lift the bar off the ground with your legs not your back, until the weight clears your knees. Don't yank the bar off the ground. This will destroy the proper back angle needed to lift safely. This is the first pull phase and it must be done correctly. Any problems here will be magnified and make the other phases of the lift impossible to perform. The second pull phase involves accelerating your hips forward and shrugging your shoulders when the bar reaches the middle to upper portion of your legs. The third phase involves quickly dropping under the bar to catch the weight. Keep the bar close to your body throughout the movement. Finish the lift by standing tall with your elbows pointing forward, your hands open and the bar resting on your fingertips and shoulders."

http://www.fitrex.com/fitness_info/muscle_group68.html

[J.L.C.]

Originally Posted by Kalt

One can modify the lift to serve a different purpose.

We've discussed this quite a few times, a wide grip upright row that brings the bar into the negative position of a military press is known as a clean, and the press is known as a press, hence: clean and press. It doesn't have to be explosive, the movement itself is a very stimulating movement for muscle development.

Wrong again - as usual.

Your 'variations' on lifts seem like prescriptions for injury to me. You really have no business giving advice in these threads.

An upright row is not a clean, at all. Cleans do not use the arms or shoulders to raise the bar into position, they just don't.

Trying to rack an upright row is more likely to lead to rotator cuff problems or impingement syndrome than any kind of athletic development.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

Wrong again - as usual.

No, close minded as usual.

The clean and press does not have to be an explosive movement with power generating from the legs.

Using a much lighter weight, the weight can be hang cleaned without moving the legs and then pressed, making it a purely upper body movement, not an olympic lift, but still a hang clean and a press.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by Kalt

No, close minded as usual.

The clean and press does not have to be an explosive movement with power generating from the legs.

Using a much lighter weight, the weight can be hang cleaned without moving the legs and then pressed, making it a purely upper body movement, not an olympic lift, but still a hang clean and a press.

perhaps, but the weight your able to muscle clean will not be anything worth doing in the press.

it's not close mindedness it's common sense.

just do presses off the rack.

[J.L.C.]

Originally Posted by Kalt

No, close minded as usual.

The clean and press does not have to be an explosive movement with power generating from the legs.

Using a much lighter weight, the weight can be hang cleaned without moving the legs and then pressed, making it a purely upper body movement, not an olympic lift, but still a hang clean and a press.

You are way off the mark.

By definition the clean is not an upperbody movement.

The term hang clean, implies a full (squat) clean, started with the bar not on the floor (i.e.; below the knee, above the knee, or hip height) and caught at the bottom of a (front) squat. Great assistance exercise for cleans.

You are describing a reverse curl to the shoulders, and then a press.

Which is fine if you want to use minimal weight. But in no way, whatsoever, is that a clean.

If it is a 'purely upper body movement' it's not a clean. Yes, it is as simple as that.

The OP asked about cleans, you clearly don't understand the nature of the lifts and therefore should not be giving (dangerous) advice.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by GoJu

perhaps, but the weight your able to muscle clean will not be anything worth doing in the press.

it's not close mindedness it's common sense.

just do presses off the rack.

Disagreed, some people have an easier time cleaning and some have a harder time pressing. Doing a stationary clean and press is an excellent compound, as the set continues the legs are used more and more, but the goal is to do the movement with the upper body as much as possible.

An example of the weight would be: I clean and press 190, I do reps with what I'm describing with 95, 12+ reps, crazy pump, much easier on the joints. Contrary to what those of you who haven't tried it, those who I've had do it continue to do it devoutly and develop some amazing shoulder power. That's not to say one should use this to replace OLY clean and press, or military press, simply that depending on the goals an individual has it could fit well into a routine.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

You are describing a reverse curl to the shoulders, and then a press.

Fine, I'll agree with you on that.

The OP asked about cleans, you clearly don't understand the nature of the lifts and therefore should not be giving (dangerous) advice.

Disagreed, but I'm not going to debate what I know when the results are clear enough from the results of my training.

[J.L.C.]

Originally Posted by Kalt

Disagreed, but I'm not going to debate what I know when the results are clear enough from the results of my training.

I guess that would depend on your opinion of 'results'.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by Kalt

Disagreed, some people have an easier time cleaning and some have a harder time pressing. Doing a stationary clean and press is an excellent compound, as the set continues the legs are used more and more, but the goal is to do the movement with the upper body as much as possible.

An example of the weight would be: I clean and press 190, I do reps with what I'm describing with 95, 12+ reps, crazy pump, much easier on the joints. Contrary to what those of you who haven't tried it, those who I've had do it continue to do it devoutly and develop some amazing shoulder power. That's not to say one should use this to replace OLY clean and press, or military press, simply that depending on the goals an individual has it could fit well into a routine.

no, ok but no.

if you want all upper body do standing presses from the rack.

[tarun_s]

isnt that a cuban press? upright row + external rotation + military press