HN51-Avian Flu.....prepared?

[Baldsnake]

There is a thin line between being an alarmist and being prepared. Because most bodybuilders over 35 are in tune with their health this post could be a little sophmoric.
In 1918 the Spanish Flu killed 50 Million that we know of. No one counted the back villages in those days which numbered in the 10s of thousands. Could have been 100 Million dead. Anyway...the Spanish Flu was an Avian Flu.
Currently HN51 is contracted bird to human. Unless you sleep with your pet Rooster like they do in Cambodia you have no worry. Like most Avian Flus....the **** mutates and merges with human flu and is spread human to human. "If" this happens the world as we know it could change expedentialy. The global oil shortage will be gone. Freeway traffic will go away. Social Security will have all the funds it needs. China and Walmart will be in deep doo doo. Radical Islam will die in their tents. No. Korea and Iran will sell their Nukes for rice. Lift lines at the ski resorts will be very short, Hurricane Katrina will look like an overfilled bath tub.
Scenario....Man with wet cough boards a plane in Singapore going to L.A. The other 200 are infected and carriers...they spread out to their home towns accross the USA...spreading....spreading...etc. In 3 days the entire country is exposed. The ill, old , poor and infants die first. The World Health Organization is split on this....some experts say up to 30% die.
The cure? The "flu" shot will help protect you from the common flus that show up in Nov. on every year. Not HN51. However, good idea to get this shot because you do not want to be down with the "common flu" if the HN51 shows up. Kiss your ass goodbye. Write this down...TamiFlu more than likely save you if you contract HN51. Bet your ass that the military, first responders and Washinton insiders have this in their medicine cabinets....I DO!!!! There are only 2 Million doses available in the USA and almost gone. I have advised my grown children to get some TODAY for themselves and my grandchildren....just to be prepared...in case. Shelf life is 5 years. I told them that if their Doc is an A hole or uninformed....bribe a Ghetto Doctor and get a prescrition from him (my millionaire boss had to do the latter yesterday). You may have to hit a dozen pharmacies until you finf TamiFlu...its going fast. If you are over 50 get your pneumonia shot along with your annual flu shot. HN51 will fill yopur lungs like a flood.
Hate him or love him...our President is the only world leader trying to do something about prepardness. He has ordered labs into overtime to come up with more TamiFlu and find a HN51 specific agent. He has called a world meeting this week, contacted congress about laws like Posse Comitatis that prevent the Feds comming into a State unless invited....quaranteen reasons here. Still....it will be up to each individual to protect himself and family.

OK.....don't say I didn't warn you.

[ChocoChick]

I have been reading about HN51 and, frankly, it scares the crap out of me.

[Baldsnake]

For those of you who have PMed me for more on TamiFlu....pic of box attached.

[ChocoChick]

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Infectio...Health/tb/1850

[jaguarr]

Fire up Google. Plenty of places to buy Tamiflu online for probably a lot cheaper than you'll find it locally.

jag

[Baldsnake]

The mutated strain of HN51 will come (if it comes) in a mixed weakened avian/common human flu hybrid. The poultry to human HN51 shows resistance to Tamiflu. Some Asian countries have been taking Tamifu instead of our "flu shots" every year for sniffels to common flu and have grown resistant to its effectiveness. If you have never taken Tamiflu before it is your only current line of defense against the mutated (if it comes) HN51....along with a good immune system, common flu shot update, pneumonia shot if you are over 50, and good genetics. It is not and never was a miracle drug....just may prevent your lungs from filling with fluid long enough for your body to develope its own defence. If the Cardio Pulminary staff at Cedars of Lebanon Hospital in Los Angeles have stocked up on TamiFlu....good enough for old Baldy. Otherwise....light a candle, pop some vitamin C, grab a bottle of Jack Daniels, sit on your roof top and flip the bird to fate and happenstance.

[Baldsnake]

Jag....be sure you check what is being sold as authentic Roche. Due to a worldwide shortage the scam dudes on on this like they were bogus steroids.
Asians and Europeans are going nuts trying to find Tamiflu....thus, the scams. See my pic of the box.

[ChocoChick]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Fire up Google. Plenty of places to buy Tamiflu online for probably a lot cheaper than you'll find it locally.

jag

Without a prescription? That's the tricky part.

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by dbflgirl

Without a prescription? That's the tricky part.

Behold the beauty of online pharmacies out of Canda...eh?

jag, who might just do that whole naked on the roof top with a bottle of jack, flipping the bird thing for fun... :P

[Baldsnake]

Whoa big fella...no one said "naked" on the roof top. You might get away with that on your south sea island but not here in LaLa Land.

[phikappa]

Big article in the WSJ today about avain flu. I'll let you know if I read anything of interest.

Thank God my brother-in-law works for Roche!

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

Whoa big fella...no one said "naked" on the roof top. You might get away with that on your south sea island but not here in LaLa Land.

Spoilsport!

jag

[velikimajmun]

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

Some Asian countries have been taking Tamifu instead of our "flu shots" every year for sniffels to common flu and have grown resistant to its effectiveness. If you have never taken Tamiflu before it is your only current line of defense against the mutated (if it comes) HN51.

Unfortunately this isn't true, people don't become resistant to tamiflu the virus does. Much in the same way that bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. The resistant virus can then be spread.

[Baldsnake]

Good point Vel...However, not being a pharmacy grad. only MS in Nutrition, I must deal with my own research...thus, I believe that TamiFlu, unlike an influenza vaccine, is a Neuramindase Inhibitor, and attacks the outer layer (laymans term) of the influenza. Both the Maryland and UCLA Schools of Pharmacology have reported that TamiFlu and other Nis do not develope influenza resistance and overdosing for every sniffel or cough interferes with the modulation activities within the immune system. Thus, my own conclusion, the Japanese who over use TamiFlu no longer get their bang for the buck...er...Yen.

Anyway....what the hell do I know. Glad I got some in the house. You all are on your own. Move over Jag...I'm getting on that roof with you...pants on.

[velikimajmun]

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

Good point Vel...However, not being a pharmacy grad. only MS in Nutrition, I must deal with my own research...thus, I believe that TamiFlu, unlike an influenza vaccine, is a Neuramindase Inhibitor, and attacks the outer layer (laymans term) of the influenza. Both the Maryland and UCLA Schools of Pharmacology have reported that TamiFlu and other Nis do not develope influenza resistance and overdosing for every sniffel or cough interferes with the modulation activities within the immune system. Thus, my own conclusion, the Japanese who over use TamiFlu no longer get their bang for the buck...er...Yen.

Anyway....what the hell do I know. Glad I got some in the house. You all are on your own. Move over Jag...I'm getting on that roof with you...pants on.

Its definitely worth having on hand. Amantidine (M2 ion channel inhibitor) is also available but just like tamiflu there is already viral resistance to this drug as well. I honestly don't think these drugs will do much in the face of a strong systemic infection like was seen with the 1918 flu, but its worth having anyways. If human to human transmission begins in the next few years we are in serious trouble.

[Baldsnake]

L-glutamine, a favorite suppliment added to many of our pre/post workout protein drinks (done it for years) seems to be another building block you might consider in your immune system wall of defense.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

L-glutamine, a favorite suppliment added to many of our pre/post workout protein drinks (done it for years) seems to be another building block you might consider in your immune system wall of defense.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

I've had good results with L-Glutamine as well as L-Taurine with regards to recovery and boosting both my CNS and Immune Systems. Throw some Vitamin C in there and I'm never sick.

jag

[Baldsnake]

What would Gena Davis do? "Wash your hands, drink lots of water and avoid Republicans". The following NYT article does sound like a Hollywood script.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/08/po...gewanted=print

The 1.9 million out of 300 million (USA) is a LOT fewer than the WHO had originally figured...30 million. Still, that would be 51,000 folks to bury here in LaLa Land. Not quite the bury grandma in the front yard scenario served up earlier.....but still.

Now, that is with our somewhat sophisticated (I said somewhat) hospital and health care system saving lives. That leaves the very poor, uneducated, illegals, the ill, elderly and infants at the most risk. Here in LaLa Land we have a disportionate number of the vulnerable....lets say 100,000 dead. Good grief....maybe it is shovel time....and, I'm the grandpa in this family with MommaSnake the grandma.

My workout partners girlfriend is on the USC Hospital Pulminary Dept. staff. She says smokers will be TWICE as likely to die. Good time to quit if not too late.

And, and, and....I don't blame any of you for skipping over all of the negative crap. I too am gonna cruise over the other posts having to do with bodybuilding....how novel.

[GREENFEATHER]

[QUOTE=Baldsnake]What would Gena Davis do? "Wash your hands, drink lots of water and avoid Republicans". The following NYT article does sound like a Hollywood script.

QUOTE]

I avoid them as much as possible unless I get trapped at or summons to The White House.


Anyhoo, these viral infections will only do one thing, that's mutate into a more efficient killer, ala Ebola and Marburg. They're not quite on par with those, YET!!

Baldie might not be an alarmist, but I am, mixed with realist. I've worked with several virologists in the time I've been a contractor for Uncle Sugar and they're quite concerned over this. I'm leaving nothing to chance.

[gregxy]

Fortunately viruses mutate to become less deadly since there
is no benefit to killing your host.... However when a virus makes
a transition from one species to another it is initially very deadly
since the new host has no resistance. This is the issue with HN51.

There was an interesting article in Scientific American a few
months back showing that quaranteen can be very effective
if used rapidly. It was incouraging how they managed to confine
the SARS epidemic a few years ago. Stocking up on food may be
a good idea as well. Of course the economic impact of massive
quaranteens is nasty.

[Baldsnake]

Most of you should remeber the Swine Flu scare. Only one person died of it in the USA, a hundred or more died from the vaccine. The flu never came. President Ford was ripped apart and creamed in the press and by the party on the other side of the isle for being a fool and an alarmist. He only erred on the side of caution.

Fast forward...2005. Hurricane Katrina, FEMA, Gov. of Louisianna, Major of New Orleans,.....Democrats are screaming that Bush is not doing enough to protect us from HN51 (I am not a "Bushie" but he is the only world leader out there doing anything about this). Now do you think that this government will again do the cautious approach....possibly err on the side of caution? Ya think??

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html

[exfatman]

Can we say plot of Outbreak and you must be playing the part of Donald Sutherland

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

There is a thin line between being an alarmist and being prepared. Because most bodybuilders over 35 are in tune with their health this post could be a little sophmoric.
In 1918 the Spanish Flu killed 50 Million that we know of. No one counted the back villages in those days which numbered in the 10s of thousands. Could have been 100 Million dead. Anyway...the Spanish Flu was an Avian Flu.
Currently HN51 is contracted bird to human. Unless you sleep with your pet Rooster like they do in Cambodia you have no worry. Like most Avian Flus....the **** mutates and merges with human flu and is spread human to human. "If" this happens the world as we know it could change expedentialy. The global oil shortage will be gone. Freeway traffic will go away. Social Security will have all the funds it needs. China and Walmart will be in deep doo doo. Radical Islam will die in their tents. No. Korea and Iran will sell their Nukes for rice. Lift lines at the ski resorts will be very short, Hurricane Katrina will look like an overfilled bath tub.
Scenario....Man with wet cough boards a plane in Singapore going to L.A. The other 200 are infected and carriers...they spread out to their home towns accross the USA...spreading....spreading...etc. In 3 days the entire country is exposed. The ill, old , poor and infants die first. The World Health Organization is split on this....some experts say up to 30% die.
The cure? The "flu" shot will help protect you from the common flus that show up in Nov. on every year. Not HN51. However, good idea to get this shot because you do not want to be down with the "common flu" if the HN51 shows up. Kiss your ass goodbye. Write this down...TamiFlu more than likely save you if you contract HN51. Bet your ass that the military, first responders and Washinton insiders have this in their medicine cabinets....I DO!!!! There are only 2 Million doses available in the USA and almost gone. I have advised my grown children to get some TODAY for themselves and my grandchildren....just to be prepared...in case. Shelf life is 5 years. I told them that if their Doc is an A hole or uninformed....bribe a Ghetto Doctor and get a prescrition from him (my millionaire boss had to do the latter yesterday). You may have to hit a dozen pharmacies until you finf TamiFlu...its going fast. If you are over 50 get your pneumonia shot along with your annual flu shot. HN51 will fill yopur lungs like a flood.
Hate him or love him...our President is the only world leader trying to do something about prepardness. He has ordered labs into overtime to come up with more TamiFlu and find a HN51 specific agent. He has called a world meeting this week, contacted congress about laws like Posse Comitatis that prevent the Feds comming into a State unless invited....quaranteen reasons here. Still....it will be up to each individual to protect himself and family.

OK.....don't say I didn't warn you.

[dval]

I fail to see why the press on avian flu other than an alarmist attempt to sell more papers. The big deal about swine flu is that every pandemic has been avian->swine->human. In that order. There were two lesser outbreaks that involved horses instead of swine but the typical pandemic starts with a sick pig that gets infected with avian flu at the same time as being infected with a swine or human flu. Also humans working around pigs can have a swine flu and a human or avian flu. It's the new mixture of surface proteins that can create pandemics. Avian flu has been known since 1961 and is hardly anything new. I'm sure epidemiologists are watching pig farms closer than an outbreak in a chicken house (aside from the costs to the poultry industry).

[velikimajmun]

Originally Posted by dval

I fail to see why the press on avian flu other than an alarmist attempt to sell more papers. The big deal about swine flu is that every pandemic has been avian->swine->human. In that order. There were two lesser outbreaks that involved horses instead of swine but the typical pandemic starts with a sick pig that gets infected with avian flu at the same time as being infected with a swine or human flu. Also humans working around pigs can have a swine flu and a human or avian flu. It's the new mixture of surface proteins that can create pandemics. Avian flu has been known since 1961 and is hardly anything new. I'm sure epidemiologists are watching pig farms closer than an outbreak in a chicken house (aside from the costs to the poultry industry).

H5N1 first jumped to humans in 1997 (18infected, 6 died). So far this year a about a hundred have died, but there have been no human to human transmissions. The H5N1 doesn't need the swine intermediate in order to infect humans, though pig farms have been closely watched. The reason that typically a pig intermediate has been needed is a matter of the linkage of sailic acids used for cell entry pigs have both types in their lungs where as humans and birds only have one. Why H5N1 doesn't need the pig as a mixing vessel is curently unclear. If we do see human to human transmission we could be in for it as the mortality rate is on the order of 30-40%. Thus people are worried.

[Hey-Iwas51]

I have been hearing about this, sort of in the background, and this is the first I have really listened. I am sort of prep/survival guy too, and should have been paying better attention. I am thinking that I will be checking into the Canadian web sites here shortly.

Edited to add... Also... you might want to look into Noni Juice as an immune system booster/anti-viral also. I have been using it for the last five years now... often gets rid of a cold in 24 hours.

Dan

[kimsquit]

This was on today's news:

H5N1 outbreak

The European Union said Thursday that the bird flu virus found in Turkey is the H5N1 strain that's dangerous to humans and might spark a pandemic...

..."We have received now confirmation that the virus found in Turkey is an avian flu H5N1 virus," said EU Health and Consumer Protection Commissioner Markos Kyprianou...

...Tests also continue on dead birds in Romania, and Kyprianou said the assumption was that a bird flu outbreak would also prove to be the H5N1 type in that country. The samples are being sent to Britain to identify the specific strain....

[Baldsnake]

So I go to the health food /vitamin store and while I in there I remember seeing Noni Oil in this forum....I find it....lots of it and I ask the owner what he thinks about it....he whispers "snake oil". I never heard of the Noni Snake so when I got home I Googled it and found the attached link.....

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art4883.asp

So now what? What is the other side of the story?

[Hey-Iwas51]

Originally Posted by Baldsnake

So I go to the health food /vitamin store and while I in there I remember seeing Noni Oil in this forum....I find it....lots of it and I ask the owner what he thinks about it....he whispers "snake oil". I never heard of the Noni Snake so when I got home I Googled it and found the attached link.....

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art4883.asp

So now what? What is the other side of the story?

My thought? The owner has never tried it, at least for more than a day or two...

Wow! That linked article was amazingly vitriolic. She has an axe to grind from somewhere. Baldsnake, at least you seem open minded after reading something this negative… she makes lots of claims she can’t support either… there is pretty much ongoing/continuous research relative to the Noni fruits health benefits. Last I heard University of Illinois had a study going. University of Hawaii has had several papers written. No, I don’t think there have been any five year double-blind placebo based studies on medicinal effects of Noni juice, because the way I understand it, if that happened, it might become a drug, and suddenly fall under the control of the FDA.

I guess what bothers me about these kinds of reports is that every one I have ever read only says… “there is no research to support the claims”. That is like saying I have decided to become an atheist because I have looked for God and I can’t find him… the obvious response is: “Where have you looked?”

Yes, the Morinda Company has been dealing with legal action, but the problem is with the definition of “unsubstantiated” claims. How do you make substantiated claims? The legal action was brought about because any claims had been made at all. The company was sued by several states back in the mid nineties not knowing what kind of claims they could make and what they could say... As I am sure you know, as the pharmaceutical companies have gotten an even stronger lobby recently, the supplement companies have become even less able to share how their products can help specific symptoms and health issues… take vitamin E or calcium for instance. The pharmaceutical industry hates the stuff, because anyone can get it.

Due to this situation, now days you will find very little information relative to “healing properties of Noni” published directly by the Morinda Company (Tahitian Noni International is the division dealing with marketing the juice now).

I have been taking Tahitian Noni Juice for nearly five years now. It had cleared up my tendonitis. (It has come back in specific areas only since I started lifting, unfortunately.) My Mom got off most of her diabetes medicine and some of her blood pressure meds (she used to take four). For several years I have had only had a few colds and each has lasted for less than 48 hours, while I had been used to dealing with them for over two weeks per, including loosing my voice at least once a winter.

I am an engineer. I am very skeptical... when a neighbor of mine told me about this stuff I laughed. So did my Mom, who is now 81. But the neighbor was so excited about it, I thought, what have I got to loose by trying, but a few bucks for a couple bottles. I thought that if it did anything like he said a couple bucks a day would be well worth it. I started my mom on it too, extremely slowly. Over about six months time, Mom’s doctor's assistant kept seeing her blood tests come out better and better and kept decreasing her doses.

The other thing to consider is, everyone is different, and I believe everyone is nutritionally deficient in different ways. Not everyone is helped immediately, and especially, in a way they might be able to notice… so many that try it give up quickly… I had one guy buy a bottle he never even tried because he was told by his doctor it would not work. Then again, I have a doctor in my organization whose Ulcerative Colitis was cleared up over a period of three months because of Noni’s anti-inflammatory action.

All I know is Noni seems to be an anti-inflammatory, an anti-bacterial , an anti-viral, and some kind of pain reliever all at the same time. I am convinced it does some of this by somehow helping the body absorb nutrients. Not necessarily from the Noni itself, but from other food intake. Maybe I am wrong there, but I have seen many, many folks helped in a significant way using this “snake oil”.

I was an active distributor back a few years ago. I have since gotten tired of overcoming this “snake oil” stigma over and over, and have basically just been supplying it to friends who have decided the health improvements out weigh the cost. I still have several folks in my “downline” who religiously buy a case of the stuff every month. I will probably use it as long as I can afford it. I also will also order cases of the stuff if a pandemic does break out. I really believe it would significantly increase the immunity level of my family.

Just a few links…
http://www.crch.org/CenStudyNoni.htm
http://www.noni-is-good-for-you.com/
http://www.onesmartfart.com/health/noni_juice.php
http://www.healthwizz.com/Testimonie...uice%20Deb.htm

[ozzman]

Don't post much anymore, but lurk often.

I am posting this as a PSA of sorts, or if anything what my approach will be. I know the author of the following paper and hold him in high regards. His opinion and suggestions are things that I listen carefully. So here it is:

http://www.med-owl.com/health/H5N1-Virus-Therapy.html


I hope it is informative.


Ozzman

[Baldsnake]

Most interesting Oz.