WHY is it people squat with bad form?

[mike_d]

Same could be asked for deadlifts... If everyone knows the negative reasons for squatting with bad form, why do we still see so many people leaning too far forward, knees to far forward, etc...

Look at my pic I uploaded. I never see guys using the good form. Everyone always leans too far forward to some extent. I want to know what part(s) of the body are too weak to support lifting with proper form? Personally I cant get further down than halfway without my back starting to lean forward. I can keep my knees in good position and get to a 90 degree angle, but I cant seem to keep my back vertical. I know it shouldn't be dead vertical, but I do lean a little too far forward and I can't figure out how to fix it. Also my back stays straight as hell, it even has the nice little 'arch' that you should have squatting, but I just feel I'm leaning too far forward and my lower back is bearing too much of the load. Eventually if I dont correct this now I'll hurt it (again).

I've been working hack squats lately, and that seems to be helping a tiny bit but its hard to tell whether its helped at all. I've also been doing 'box squats' for the past few weeks, but squatting onto a bench instead of a box. Again, this might be helping but its tough to tell.

Basically what excercises would you give someone who leans too far forward on squats? You need to identify the weakness before you can correct it, and I cant identify it.

See pic...

[W8isGR8]

Well, the first pic the weight is in line with the feet, which is balanced. The second pic you'd fall over. That's why you can't have a straight back and keep your knees behind your toes. One or the other.

The simple answer is easy, most people use too much weight.

[Sportsguy81]

The only way you could ever use the form in picture 2 is if you are performing squats on a Smith Machine, but if you are doing them that way, they aren't exactly squats anyway. (they're more like doing a leg press on a horizontal leg sled)

"Lose the ego" is the best advise I can give to someone who has bad form when squatting. The heavy weight won't be far behind if you start doing Squats right at the beginning.

[UNLVmike]

Because they dont go on BB.com... duh!

[W8isGR8]

Simple physics, draw a line from the weight straight down. If the line is behind your feet, you're gonna fall backwards.

[New_Kid]

Leaning too much = using back.. need less weight.

[geoffsherman]

It shows to me a weak lower back and posterior chain. Look into the following exercises:
(a) Good Mornings
(b) Hypers/Reverse Hypers
(c) Pull Throughs

[mike_d]

It was a bad pic, its tough to draw in MS paint

So the first pic is good form though eh? If your knees aren't further forward then your toes, your back is straight (slight arch), and your shoulders aren't further forward then your toes is this generally 'good form'?

I just went to a mirror with a broomstick and here is my most accurate drawing yet of my squat form. I seem to be following all those rules, but no matter how much weight I use I still feel like my back is leaning too far forward (ie.. I was using a broomstick in the bathroom to make this pic)

I did this with a fairly wide stance, toes slightly out.

[W8isGR8]

That pic looks better. I had the same problem too. Try putting the bar lower on your back.

[Killazer]

I think its fine as long as you dont round your back. Thats why plifters train good mornings etc because you have to lean forward some or u would fall over so u need a strong lower back to squat but u shouldnt round your back when squating.

[mike_d]

Last one, while we're at it my deadlift form has finally improved. It took a long time of trying, analyzing, repeating, but I finally end up looking like this at the start (just did this in bathroom mirror, roommate verified picture)

This looks alot better than what I used to be doing, I'm going to work on it with medium weight for a while (at least a few weeks). I'm going to slow down on trying to move big numbers this time, periodization is key for me. I got greedy and hurt my back last year.

I'm 99% sure this is right, but can a few people verify it for me? I haven't done deads off the floor in 2-3 weeks, since then I've been focusing on rack pulls (2-3x a week with light/medium weight), hyperextensions and/or good mornings at almost every workout, and alot more ab work - almost every workout, but I also focused on tightening my abs on certain compounds like dips, military presses and rack pulls. It made a world of difference, imo my abs got stronger from this than they did from the weighted situps and side bends I was doing. I plan on doing squats and deads today in a few hours. I'll probably go to the gym around 7:30-8:00 tonite.

Thanks for all your help guys, its very reassuring to have you guys confirm my form, even though i make one of these posts like once a week Good stuff, it really is appreciated.

My arms are a little closer to my shins then shown in the pic. And obviously my arms aren't THAT long But you get the idea.

[W8isGR8]

How can you lift a weight up with your arms behind it. As soon as you cleared the ground the weight would swing back and take out your shins.

[warrenpeace]

smith machine for squats, keeps weight in place, allows you to really hit the squat hard and build strength

[Morbid_Mind]

smith machine for squats, keeps weight in place, allows you to really hit the squat hard and build strength

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Talk about bad advice.

[BodySculpting]

Guys....seriously....Squatting with good form shouldn't be this complicated that 100 threads come up every day on the subject......just shut up and squat.

[tiny.t]

smith machine for squats, keeps weight in place, allows you to really hit the squat hard and build strength

Aww cute.He obviously listens to the PTs...
Some people just can't squat with their backs very upright,it tends to be the taller people, but not always.Front squats bring the weight forward so you can lean further back without falling over so they might be worth a try.Another thing is to put a plate or block under the heels,people tned to frown on this because of one thing and another,but it sure does make squatting more thigh orientated.

[W8isGR8]

And more stable for some.

[$AJ]

ppl are stupid and don't know what they're doing

[mike_d]

ppl are stupid and don't know what they're doing

thanks bud

[RU4A69]

smith machine for squats, keeps weight in place, allows you to really hit the squat hard and build strength

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jesus warned us about people like you (Matthew 24/Mark13/Luke19/John 8)

[dsoul27]

Last one, while we're at it my deadlift form has finally improved. It took a long time of trying, analyzing, repeating, but I finally end up looking like this at the start (just did this in bathroom mirror, roommate verified picture)

This looks alot better than what I used to be doing, I'm going to work on it with medium weight for a while (at least a few weeks). I'm going to slow down on trying to move big numbers this time, periodization is key for me. I got greedy and hurt my back last year.

I'm 99% sure this is right, but can a few people verify it for me? I haven't done deads off the floor in 2-3 weeks, since then I've been focusing on rack pulls (2-3x a week with light/medium weight), hyperextensions and/or good mornings at almost every workout, and alot more ab work - almost every workout, but I also focused on tightening my abs on certain compounds like dips, military presses and rack pulls. It made a world of difference, imo my abs got stronger from this than they did from the weighted situps and side bends I was doing. I plan on doing squats and deads today in a few hours. I'll probably go to the gym around 7:30-8:00 tonite.

Thanks for all your help guys, its very reassuring to have you guys confirm my form, even though i make one of these posts like once a week Good stuff, it really is appreciated.

My arms are a little closer to my shins then shown in the pic. And obviously my arms aren't THAT long But you get the idea.

you really like drawing pics dont you?

[Mr Lee]

Same could be asked for deadlifts... If everyone knows the negative reasons for squatting with bad form, why do we still see so many people leaning too far forward, knees to far forward, etc...

Look at my pic I uploaded. I never see guys using the good form. Everyone always leans too far forward to some extent. I want to know what part(s) of the body are too weak to support lifting with proper form? Personally I cant get further down than halfway without my back starting to lean forward. I can keep my knees in good position and get to a 90 degree angle, but I cant seem to keep my back vertical. I know it shouldn't be dead vertical, but I do lean a little too far forward and I can't figure out how to fix it. Also my back stays straight as hell, it even has the nice little 'arch' that you should have squatting, but I just feel I'm leaning too far forward and my lower back is bearing too much of the load. Eventually if I dont correct this now I'll hurt it (again).

I've been working hack squats lately, and that seems to be helping a tiny bit but its hard to tell whether its helped at all. I've also been doing 'box squats' for the past few weeks, but squatting onto a bench instead of a box. Again, this might be helping but its tough to tell.

Basically what excercises would you give someone who leans too far forward on squats? You need to identify the weakness before you can correct it, and I cant identify it.

See pic...

ROFL the good form picture must be being done on the smith machine. Dude, download some videos of people squatting and have a good look at their technique.

[$AJ]

smith machine for squats, keeps weight in place, allows you to really hit the squat hard and build strength

lmao, just lmao

[Pak Man]

My arms are a little closer to my shins then shown in the pic. And obviously my arms aren't THAT long But you get the idea.

Wow Long Arms.

[Ironager]

Same could be asked for deadlifts... If everyone knows the negative reasons for squatting with bad form, why do we still see so many people leaning too far forward, knees to far forward, etc...

Look at my pic I uploaded. I never see guys using the good form. Everyone always leans too far forward to some extent. I want to know what part(s) of the body are too weak to support lifting with proper form? Personally I cant get further down than halfway without my back starting to lean forward. I can keep my knees in good position and get to a 90 degree angle, but I cant seem to keep my back vertical. I know it shouldn't be dead vertical, but I do lean a little too far forward and I can't figure out how to fix it. Also my back stays straight as hell, it even has the nice little 'arch' that you should have squatting, but I just feel I'm leaning too far forward and my lower back is bearing too much of the load. Eventually if I dont correct this now I'll hurt it (again).

I've been working hack squats lately, and that seems to be helping a tiny bit but its hard to tell whether its helped at all. I've also been doing 'box squats' for the past few weeks, but squatting onto a bench instead of a box. Again, this might be helping but its tough to tell.

Basically what excercises would you give someone who leans too far forward on squats? You need to identify the weakness before you can correct it, and I cant identify it.

See pic...

Tall people like myself have to lean forward a bit more to balance the weight so I do squats like the first guy in the pic, although I do go past parallel. My form is impeccable so I guess you're generalizing short and taller people...

[KSA]

Tall like Arnold

[hypo_metabolic]

Bad form has something to do with ego or ignorance.

[Danimal]

I think the 2nd squat pic is just fine. Like the others have said, it's impossible to have your back straight up and down and keep your knees in line with your toes. Oly lifters who use a high bar squat keep their backs straighter because their knees go way out over their toes. It's all in balance.

The deadlift pic is bad. You want your hips to be at the best leverage point at the start of the lift. I suspect if you did a deadlift with your hips real low like that, the 1st thing that happens is your hips come up to get in the position of more natural leverage. So don't waste that energy and start with your hips higher and the bar closer to your shins. Keep your back flat/arched (I don't mean flat as in parallel to the ground, but flat as in not rounded forward). Don't worry so much about keeping your shoulders pulled back like you do with a squat. The more you pull your shoulders back, the farther down you have to get to reach the bar, and the farther you have to pull the bar to complete the lift. Let your shoulders slump forward some. You can do this and still have your back in the proper position. Start the lift by moving your head back and up- this keeps your hips down and forces your body to work together. Concentrate on pushing the floor away from you. Once the bar clears your knees, drive your hips forward hard. The idea of squatting the weight up is wrong.

[mike_d]

I watched a few powerlifting videos of deadlifters and squatters last night. Its tough to find vids with the right angle, but I get the general idea alot better now.

That first pic I drew was pretty bad... I should redo it but I got no time. Its good to know that I was doing squats pretty much correctly all along. That pic of Arnold is about the exact angle I squat at, I always thought this was too far forward and I was working too hard at getting an impossible angle. I have always squatted like this, but when I hurt my back last year my back was probably rounded. I dont really remember, but I know I didnt have as much knowledge back then. I probably didnt know you needed to arch your back and tighten the abs. Live and learn I guess..

My form is 10x better now on deadlifts, but I still need a bit of work. Like someone said I probably start with my hips too low, I dont pull the weight until I raise them anyways. I probably need to use more hip and less squat, but I'm getting it. I had a great DL session last night. Thanks for the advice, feel free to thread-jack now, I got what I needed out of it

[vision1]

I'm 6'2, and whenever I squat my knees and shoulders both go past my toes (not by much). If I try and move back further I would fall down. Anything I can do, or will my way be fine?