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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up The perfect supplements before/following exercise!!!

    CONCLUSIONS:
    -Food consumption (quantity nor composition) 0-3 h before exercise does not effect performance. But does effect recovery.
    -The post workout shake increases amino acid uptake even more when consumed before exercise.
    -Training increases the hormonal response - particularly insuline sensitivity - which can be taken advantage of by taking high glycemic index carbs before/following exercise.
    -Carbohydrate supplementation during endurance training has a positive effect on performance, with an additional value of protein in this.
    -During cutting whey protein concumption before exercise prevents muscle loss. BCAAs increase fat loss.
    -Carbs, protein and BCAAs enforce each others action in protein synthesis.
    -Consumption of food during the first 24 hours following exercise - and starting directly before/following exercise increases muscle gain more than other meals because of an increases protein synthesis rate.
    -Adding glutamine does not stimulate protein synthesis in a manner giving additional value to bodybuilders. Addition of other AAs increases glutamine synthesis. And the contribution of skeletal muscle to glutamine production is 50% lower than assumed. Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
    -A cutting diet high in BCAAs increases body weight loss and % of fat loss more than a calorie restricted high protein cutting diet.


    That would make this the "perfect" supplementation around your exercise:

    20-30 min. before exercise
    0,2 g/kg whey

    Directly before exercise
    0,4 g/kg high glycemic index carbs
    5 g (or more) BCAAs (or 15 g EAAs)

    Perhaps during exercise
    A 4-6% CHO solution (not so important for BBers)

    Immediately following exercise
    0,4 g/kg high glycemic index carbs
    5 g (or more) BCAAs (or 15 g EAAs)

    20-30 min. following exercise
    0,2 g/kg whey



    WHEN YOU CAN NOT ADD BCAA'S OR EAA'S, YOU USE THE FOLLOWING SCHEDULE:

    20-30 min. before exercise
    0,2-0,3 g/kg whey

    Directly before exercise
    0,4 g/kg high glycemic carbs

    Perhaps during exercise
    A 4-6% CHO solution (not so important for BBers)

    Immediately following exercise
    0,2-0,3 g/kg whey (If you're neurotic, you may choose to take the whey 20 min. before the end of the training and the carbs immediately following exercise)

    20-30 min. following exercise
    0,4 g/kg high glycemic index carbs



    In the following studies the combination of high glycemic carbs + amino acids is ingested immediately before/following exercise. Because AAs and carbs enter the blood stream at the same time you create this elevated increase in net protein balance.
    Whey protein takes 20 min. more than AAs to enter the blood stream. For this purpose you take whey protein 20 min. before your carbs. This way the AAs from whey and carbs enter the blood stream approximately at the same time (10 min. after ingesting the carbs).
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:22 PM.
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  2. #2
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    WHY ALWAYS TAKE CARBS AND PROTEIN IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING WORKOUT AND NOT LATER
    A) Hormonal response to exercise is important for muscle growth.
    B) Protein synthesis and degradation are elevated following exercise.
    C) Larger insulin sensitivity.
    D) Effect amino acids on protein synthesis is bigger.
    E) Faster glycogen synthesis.

    Hormonal response to exercise is important for muscle growth.
    -Resistance exercise has been shown to elicit a significant acute hormonal response. It appears that this acute response is more critical to tissue growth and remodelling than chronic changes in resting hormonal concentrations (T1).
    -Acute response of net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and amino acid ingestion (E11).

    Protein synthesis and degradation are elevated following exercise
    -during recovery after resistance exercise, muscle protein turnover is increased because of an acceleration of synthesis and degradation (T5).
    -Supplementation of 10 g protein, 8 g carbs and 3 g fat immediately following exercise elevated protein synthesis 3-fold. 3 hours following exercise the elevation was 12% (K45).
    -Following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline (T4).

    Larger insulin sensitivity
    -the ability of insulin to stimulate processes other than glucose transport and glycogen synthesis is enhanced in skeletal muscle after exercise (T17)

    Effect amino acids on protein synthesis is bigger
    -The stimulatory effect of amino acids after exercise is greater than the effect of amino acids on muscle protein synthesis when given at rest (E22).
    -0,15 g/kg amino acids immediately following exercise increases muscle protein synthesis to 291%. At rest the increase is only 141%. During hyperaminoacidemia, the increases in amino acid transport above basal were 30-100% greater after exercise than at rest (E23).

    Faster glycogen synthesis
    1) Glycogen synthesis rate in trained people is higher than untrained:
    Glycogen synthesis rate is increased after 6 weeks of exercise (97 +/- 9 %) vs. (62 +/- 11 %) after the first exercise session (T19).
    2)High intensity exercise increases glycogen synthesis rate more than prolonged exercise:
    -Typical rates of muscle glycogen resynthesis after short term, high intensity exercise (15.1 to 33.6 mmol/kg/h) are much higher than glycogen resynthesis rates following prolonged exercise (approximately 2 mmol/kg/h). And peak blood glucose levels range from 6.6 to 8.9 mmol/L vs. 2 to 3.4 mmol/L.
    In response to this elevation in plasma glucose levels, insulin levels increase to approximately 60 microU/ml, a 2-fold increase over resting values. Both glucose and insulin improve muscle glycogen synthesis (T22).
    3) Heavy weights increase glycogent synthesis rate more than lighter weights:
    Training at 70% one repetition maximum (1 RM, I-70) increases the rate of glycogenolysis more (22.2 +/- 6.8)than 35% 1 RM (I-35) (14.2 +/- 2.5 mmol/kg wet wt) (T20).
    4)Eccentric exercise decreases the rate of glycogen synthesis:
    -(Untrained men) 45-min of eccentric exercise on a cycle ergometer: At 10 days after exercise, muscle glycogen was still depleted, in both type I and II fibers (T21).
    -Muscle glycogen resynthesis rates following resistance exercise (1.3 to 11.1 mmol/kg/h) are slower than the rates observed after short term, high intensity exercise. A greater eccentric component in the resistance exercise may cause some interference with glycogen resynthesis (T22).
    5)But glycogen synthesis isn't impaired during the first hours following exercise:
    -4.25 g CHO/kg/day in the first 3 days following eccentric exercise increases glycogen content at 0, 24, and 72 h of recovery to (168, 329, and 435 mmol/kg) vs. (90, 395, and 592 mmol/kg dry wt) at concentric exercise Subjects receiving 8.5 g CHO/kg stored significantly more glycogen than those who were fed 4.3 g CHO/kg. (K20F).
    -Glycogen accumulation in muscle depleted by concentric work and subsequently subjected to eccentric exercise: There was no difference in the glycogen content of ECC and CON legs after 6 h of recovery (77.7 +/- 7.9 and 85.1 +/- 4.9 mmol/kg wet wt). But 18 h later, the ECC leg contained 15% less glycogen than the CON leg. After 72 h of recovery, this difference had increased to 24% (K20h).
    -A large amount of carbohydrate (1.6 g.kg-1.h-1) during the 4 h after glycogen-reducing exercise, followed by eccentric or concentric contractions: Glycogen replenishment was similar 2 hours following exercise, after 48 hours glycogen replenishment was 25% lower in muscle that had undertaken eccentric contractions (K20i).
    6) Glycogen synthesis rate is maximalised at intake of 1,5 g/kg glucose immediately and 2 hours following exercise:
    1,5 g/kg glucose polymer solution immediately and 2 hours following glycogen depleting exercise increases glycogen resynthesis significantly, but not less (5.2 +/- 0.9) vs. (5.8 +/- 0.7 mumol.g wet wt-1.h-1) than after consuming 3,0 g/kg glucose. Insulin increased significantly above the preexercise concentrations during the treatments (K20g).

    -High intensity weight resistance exercise in 8 subjects (in the fasted state) not currently weight training:
    1,5 g/kg CHO solution administered 0 + 1 hour following exercise gave a significantly greater rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis as compared to water. The muscle glycogen content was restored to 91% and 75% of preexercise levels when water and CHO were provided after 6 h, respectively (K20b).
    -Supplementation of 10 g protein, 8 g carbs and 3 g fats immediately following exercise stimulated glucose uptake and whole body glucose utilization 3-fold vs. 44% for supplementation 3 hours following exercise (K45).
    -When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis (K16).
    -2 g/kg carbohydrate solution immediately postexercise increases muscle glycogen storage to (7.7 mumol.g wet wt-1.h-1) vs. (4.1 mumol.g) for administration 2 hours postexercise (K20e).

    THE VALUE OF HIGH INSULIN LEVELS FOLLOWING EXERCISE:
    A) Stimulation of protein synthesis.
    B) Increases glycogen synthesis rat.

    1)Insulin and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) are critical to skeletal muscle growth. Insulin is regulated by blood glucose and amino acid levels (T1).
    2)high glycemic index CHO elevates insulin response more than low glycemic index CHO (K111).
    3)Elevation in insulin is directly linked to CHO quantity supplementation. 75-200 g glucose creates significantly higher plasma insulin concentrations than 25 g glucose (K131).

    Stimulates protein synthesis.
    Physiological hyperinsulinemia stimulates protein synthesis (T18).

    Increases glycogen recovery
    -The degree of glycogen recovery correlates with plasma insulin concentrations (E2).
    -Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis (K16).
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:23 PM.
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  3. #3
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    EATING BEFORE EXERCISE:
    A) Eating within 0-3 hours before exercise doesn't influence performance.
    B) Mega quantities of carbs before training may improve performance to some extent.
    C) Composition of the pre training meal does not influence performance.
    D) There is no difference in high- or low glycemic index carbs on performance.
    E) Low glycemic index carbs might possibly give some improvement in performance during endurance exercise.
    F) Supplementation of essential amino acids + sucrose before exercise is more effective than following.
    G) Whey protein before exercise during cutting increases fat loss and preserves muscle.
    H) Carb loading prevents BCAA oxidation.

    Eating within 0-3 hours before exercise doesn't influence performance
    -The ingestion of 0, 25, 75 or 200 g of glucose 45 min before a 20 min submaximal exercise bout does not affect subsequent TT performance (K131).
    -Administration of 75 g of moderate glycemic index carbs (whole grain rolled oats) 45 min. before performance does not significantly improve performance (253.6 +/- 6) vs. water (242.0 +/- 15 min) (K133).
    -Administration of placebo (water), 72 g fructose, 54 g glucose, 54 g glucose/sucrose mix or 54 g CHO from a banana 1 hour before exercise does not influence performance (K136).
    -1-2 large chocolate bars 30 min prior to a 90 min. cycle ride does not improve performance over placebo (K143).
    -Consumption of 5.0 ml.kg-1 body weight of a 19.7% carbohydrate drink 15 min. before repeated bouts of high-intensity exercise does not improve performance over placebo (K144).

    Mega quantities of carbs before training may improve performance to some extent
    -Supplementation of 45 or 156 g CHO 4 hours before exercise gives similar performance compared to placebo. Only 312 g improved performance by 15% compared to placebo (K103).

    Composition of the pre training meal does not influence performance
    -A high-carbohydrate meal (215 CHO, 26 P, 3 F) 4 hours before exercise does not improve performance compared to a high-fat meal (50 CHO, 14 P, 80 F) or exercise after an overnight fast. The high-carbohydrate meal was accompanied by an increase in plasma insulin and plasma growth hormone concentrations (K102).
    -Consuming a carbohydrate meal (C; 3 g carbohydrate/kg) 3,5 h before exercise, creates similar performances compared to an isoenergetic fat meal (F; 1.3 g fat/kg) or a placebo meal (P; no energy content) (K104).
    -A high-carbohydrate mael 90 min. before exercise halves the peak fat-oxidation rate compared to a high-protein or high-fat meal. Fat oxidation following a high-protein meal is similar to that following a high-fat meal. Meal composition had no clear effect on sprint or 50-km performance (K121).

    There is no difference in high- or low glycemic index carbs on performance
    -Supplementation of 2 g/kg low glycemic CHO 3 hours before an endurance run does not improve performance over high glycemic (K114).
    -2 g CHO/kg body mass of either high-GI potato or low-GI pasta consumed 2 h before exercise does not significantly improve performance over the control group (K122).
    -Ingestion of HGI or LGI carbs 30 min. before exercise does not improve performance over placebo (K135).
    -Supplementation of HGI or LGI carbs 45 min. before exercise does not improve performance over placebo (K138).
    -CHO ingestion 45 min. before 2,25 h cycling has no effect on exercise performance, irrespective of the glycemic or insulinemic responses to the ingested meals (K141).

    Low glycemic index carbs might possibly give some improvement in performance during endurance exercise (2 h or longer).
    -Supplementation of 75 g moderate GI (gi 61) carbs 45 min. before exercise enhanced performance time 165 +/- 11 min.) more than high GI (gi 82) carbs (141 +/- 8 min.) and water (134 +/- 13 min.) (K134).
    -Supplementation of 1,5 g/kg LGI carbs 30 min. before cycling exercise increases time to exhaustion more than HGI carbs and increases plasma glucose levels more after 2 hours of exercise (K137).
    -Supplementation of 75 g LGI carbs (whole-grain rolled oats) 45 min. before exercise increases time to exhaustion more (266.5 +/- 13 min.) than HGI carbs (whole-oat flower) (250.8 +/- 12) and water (225.1 +/- 8 min) (K139).

    Supplementation of essential amino acids + sucrose before exercise is more effective than following.
    -Consumption of 6 g EAA + 35 g sucrose immediately before exercise elevates response of net muscle protein synthesis more than consumption following exercise. Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 ± 42 mg) than during POST (81 ± 19) (E102).

    Whey protein before exercise during cutting increases fat loss and preserves muscle.
    -Consumption of food 1 h pre-exercise while cutting: whey protein creates comparable fat loss to "no nutrition". Whey creates more FFM than milkprotein, glucose and "no nutrition". Milkprotein and glucose create significantly less fat loss (E101).

    Carb loading prevents BCAA oxidation.
    -CHO loading abolishes increases in branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) oxidation during exercise (K147).

    CARBS DURING EXERCISE:
    A) Prevents rise in cortisol
    B) Provides more muscle mass
    C) Prevents protein degradation
    D) Improves time to exhaustion in endurance exercise. No performance improvement in resistance exercise.
    E) Prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise

    Prevents rise in cortisol
    -Consumption of a 6% CHO solution during weight lifting exercise elevates blood glucose and plasma insulin levels above baseline. This resulted in a significant blunting of the cortisol response (7% with CHO compared to 99% with placebo) (K1).

    Provides more muscle mass.
    -Consumption of a 6% CHO solution during weight lifting exercise resultes in significantly greater gains in both type I (19.1%) and type II (22.5%) muscle fibre area than weight training exercise alone (K1).

    Prevents protein degradation
    -Even during 6 h of exhaustive exercise in trained athletes using carbohydrate supplements (0,35 g/kg/30 min.), net protein oxidation does not increase compared with the resting state and/or postexercise recovery. Combined ingestion of protein and carbohydrate (0,35 g/kg/30 min. carbs, 0,125 g/kg/30 min. protein) improves net protein balance at rest as well as during exercise and postexercise recovery (K3).

    Improves time to exhaustion in endurance exercise. No performance improvement in resistance exercise
    -The addition of protein (1,94% protein solution) to a carbohydrate supplement (7,75% carbohydrate solution) enhances aerobic endurance performance (cycling at 85% VO2max until fatigued after cycling for 3 hours at 45-75% VO2max) above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone (26.9 +/- 4.5 min) vs. (19.7 +/- 4.6 min) or placebo (12.7 +/- 3.1 min) (K5).
    -Ingestion of a 8% CHO solution during exercise increases time to exhaustion 30% compared to placebo [199 +/- 21 vs. 152 +/- 9 (SE) min, P < 0.05] (K7).
    -A carbohydrate solution during the first hour of a treadmill endurance run increases time to exhaustion compared to water. 5,5% solution gives (124.5 +/- 8.4 min), 6,9% solution gives (121.4 +/- 9.4 min) and water (109.6 +/- 9.6 min) (K8).
    -Supplementation of 3 g/kg 50% glucose polymer solution after 135 min of cycling exercise increases time to exhaustion (205 +/- 17) vs. (169 +/- 12 min) for placebo (K10).
    -(Resistance trained males) 1 g/kg carbs before - and 0,5 g/kg every 10 min. during - exercise elicited significantly less muscle glycogen degradation (126.9 +/- 6.5 to 109.7 +/- 7.1 mmol.kg) vs. (121.4 +/- 8.1 to 88.3 +/- 6. 0 mmol.kg) for placebo, but does not enhance performance (K20k).

    Carbhohydrate supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
    -Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:25 PM.
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  4. #4
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    WHY CARBS FOLLOWING EXERCISE:
    A) A higher rate of glycogen synthesis.
    B) A stronger insulin response.
    C) Better for net protein balance.
    D) Following heavy exercise fat oxidation remains elevated despite carb intake.

    1) High glycemic index carbs increase rate of glycogen synthesis more than low glycemic:
    -Ingestion of 0.70g glucose/kg bodyweight every 2 hours appears to maximise glycogen resynthesis rate during the first 4 to 6 hours after exhaustive exercise. Ingestion of glucose or sucrose results in similar muscle glycogen resynthesis rates while glycogen synthesis in liver is better served with the ingestion of fructose. Also, increases in muscle glycogen content during the first 4 to 6 hours after exercise are greater with ingestion of simple as compared with complex carbohydrate (K20c).
    -2,5 g/kg high glycemic index carbs 0, 4, 8 and 21 following exercise increases glycogen synthesis rate more
    (106 +/- 11.7 mmol/kg wet wt) vs. (71.5 +/- 6.5 mmol/kg) than low glycemin index (K20j).
    2) Fructose provides no measurable glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glucose does. In the liver, the rates of glycogen storage are similar after either glucose or fructose ingestion (K17).

    A higher rate of glycogen synthesis.
    -Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes.
    The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis (K16).
    -(Resistance exercise) Eccentric training at 120% of max strength: Subjects receiving 8.5 g CHO/kg stored significantly more glycogen than those who were fed 4.3 g CHO/kg (K20).

    A stronger insulin response
    -CHO supplementation (1 g/kg) immediately and 1 h after resistance exercise increases insulin in the first 2 hours (K14).
    -Insulin concentration is directly correlated to quantity of carb supplementation: 3 hours following consumption of 45 or 156 g carbs blood insulin reaches basal. For consumption of 312 g carbs insulin was still 84% higher after 4 h (K103).
    -Ingestion of 1,5-3 g/kg glucose polymer immediately and 2 h following glycogen depleting exercise, increases insulin significantly above basal levels during the first 4 h of recovery (K20g).

    Better for net protein balance
    -35 g carbs + 6 g amino acids consumed at 1 and 2 h after resistance exercise increases protein synthesis (total net uptake of phenylalanine across the leg) more (114 +/- 38) than AA's only (71 +/- 13) or carbs only (53 +/- 6 mg x leg x 3h). Prior intake of amino acids and carbohydrate does not diminish the metabolic response to a second comparable dose ingested 1h later (K24).
    -CHO supplementation (1 g/kg) immediately and 1 h after resistance exercise decreases myofibrillar protein breakdown: FSR was 36.1% greater for CHO vs. 6.3% for placebo (K14).
    -CHO loading abolishes increases in branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) oxidation during exercise and that part of the ammonia production during prolonged exercise originates from deamination of amino acids (K19).

    Following heavy exercise fat oxidation remains elevated despite carb intake
    -A carb-rich meal (64-70% energy) at 1, 4 and 7 h of recovery after glycogen depleting exercise increases mucle glycogen significantly.
    Despite the elevation of glucose and insulin following high-CHO meals during recovery, CHO oxidation and PDH activation were decreased, supporting the hypothesis that glycogen resynthesis is of high metabolic priority. Plasma fatty acids, very low density lipoprotein triacylglycerols, as well as intramuscular acetylcarnitine stores are likely to be important fuel sources for aerobic energy, particularly during the first few hours of recovery (K20d).

    WHY BCAA'S/ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS FOR RECOVERY:
    A) Improved net protein balance.
    B) Helps in fat loss while cutting.
    C) Prevents a decrease in glutamine

    1)It is known that BCAA oxidation is promoted by exercise (E1, T13).
    2)Promotion of fatty acid oxidation upregulates the BCAA catabolism (T13).
    3)Leucine appears to exert a synergistic role with insulin as a regulatory factor in the insulin/ phosphatidylinositol-3 kinase (PI3-K) signal cascade. Insulin serves to activate the signal pathway, while leucine is essential to enhance or amplify the signal for protein synthesis at the level of peptide initiation (E1).
    4) 77 mg BCAAs/kg supplementation before exercise results in a large decrease in release of EAA, (531 +/- 70 mumol/kg) for BCAA vs. (924 +/- 148 mumol/kg) for control (E105).
    5) Nonessential amino acids are not necessary for stimulation of net muscle protein balance (6 g EAAs provides double the response of 3 g EAA and 3 g of nonessentail AA) (E12).
    6) 40 g EAAs does not increase net protein balance more than 20 g EAAs (E15).
    7) Ingestion of oral essential amino acids results in a change from net muscle protein degradation to net muscle protein synthesis after heavy resistance exercise in humans similar to that seen when the amino acids were infused (E15).
    8) A cutting diet high in BCAAs increases body weight loss and % of fat loss more than a calorie restricted high protein cutting diet (E7).

    Improved net protein balance.
    -Administration of leucine restores muscle protein synthesis without affecting plasma glucose or insuline concentrations. And therefore independent of insulin (E2).
    -Studies feeding amino acids or leucine soon after exercise suggest that post-exercise consumption of amino acids stimulates recovery of muscle protein synthesis via translation regulations (E1).
    -BCAAs given during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period provide a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids (46%) vs. (25%) for placebo, in the recovery period. There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs (E5).
    -7,5-12 g BCAAs taken during exercise prevents the increase in muscle concentration of the aromatic amino acids. Vs. a 20-40% increase in the placebo group (E8).
    -77 mg BCAAs/kg supplementation before exercise resulted in a doubling (P < 0.05) of the arterial BCAA levels before exercise (339 +/- 15 vs. 822 +/- 86 microM). During the 60 min of exercise, the total release of BCAA was 68 +/- 93 vs. 816 +/- 198 mumol/kg (P < 0.05) for the BCAA and control trials, respectively (E105).
    -EEAs (essential amino acids) increases net muscle protein balance. 2 x 6 g provides double the response of 2 x 3 g (E12).
    -Consumption of 40 g EAAs after heavy resistance training results in a change from net protein degradation (-50 +/- 23 nmol. min-1. 100 ml leg volume-1) to net protein synthesis (29 +/- 14 nmol. min-1. 100 ml leg volume-1; P < 0.05) (E15).

    Helps in fat loss while cutting
    -BCAA supplementation (76% leucine) in combination with moderate energy restriction has been shown to induce significant and preferential losses of visceral adipose tissue and to allow maintenance of a high level of performance (E14).
    -In adipocytes from fed rats, the rate of fatty acid synthesis in the presence of glucose and insulin was inhibited 40% by valine (5 mm) (E4).
    -Twenty-five competitive wrestlers restricted their caloric intake (28 kcal.kg-1.day-1) for 19 days. A high-BCAA diet provided 4 kg of weight loss, and 17,3% decrease in fat loss. There was no change in aerobic (VO2max) (p > 0.75) and anaerobic capacities (Wingate test) (p > 0.81), and in muscular strength (p > 0.82). (E7).

    Prevents a decrease in glutamine
    -Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
    -BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:27 PM.
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    THE COMBINED VALUE OF CARBS AND PROTEIN:
    A) Stronger increase in insulin.
    B) Higher rate of glycogen synthesis.
    C) Increased GH elevation.
    D) Protects muscle while cutting.

    Stronger increase in insulin.
    -112 g carbs + 41 g protein immediately and 2 h following exercise increases plasma insulin response more than carbs only (K22).

    Higher rate of glycogen synthesis
    -112 g carbs + 41 g protein immediately and 2 h following exercise increased rate of muscle glycogen storage more [35.5 +/- 3.3 (SE) mumol.g protein-1.h-1] than carbs only (25.6 +/- 2.3 mumol.g protein-1.h-1) or protein only (7.6 +/- 1.4 mumol.g protein-1.h-1) (K22).

    Creates a better hormonal environment
    -1,06 g/kg carbs + 0,41 g/kg protein supplemented immediately and 2 h after weight training exercise. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control (K21).

    Protects muscle while cutting.
    -12 weeks of mild energy restriction and light resistance exercise: Ingestion of 10 g protein, 7 g carbs and 3,3 g fat immediately after exercise (on an isocaloric diet compared to control) gave similar loss in % bodyfat, but FFM significantly decreased in control vs. no signigicant decrease in the supplement group (K44).

    THE ADDITIONAL VALUE OF BCAA'S/ ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS:
    A) A stronger insulin response.
    B) A better net protein balance.
    C) An improved glycogen synthesis.

    Significant decreases in plasma or serum levels of leucine occur following aerobic (11 to 33%), anaerobic lactic (5 to 8%) and strength exercise (30%) sessions. BCAAs make up about one-third of muscle protein. The leucine content of protein is assumed to vary between 5 and 10% (E14).

    A stronger insulin response.
    -Leucine+carbs+protein following 45 min of resistance exercise increased plasma insulin response more than carb+ protein or carbs only (K31).
    -An amino acid + protein hydrolysate mixture (PAA) added to 1,2 g/kg carbs consumption following a glycogen-depletion protocol: 0,2 g/kg PAA increased insulin (+52%), 0,4 g/kg PAA (+107%). Plasma leucine, phenylalanine and tyrosine concentrations showed strong correlations with the insulin response (P: < 0.0001) (K32).

    A better net protein balance
    -Leucine+carbs+protein following 45 min of resistance exercise: Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h) (K31).
    -Administration of an amino acid-glucose mix increases phenylalanine net balance (-27 ± 8 to 64 ± 17). Muscle protein synthesis increased (61 ± 17 to 133 ± 30 (P = 0.005). Protein breakdown decreased (P = 0.012) and leg glucose uptake increased (P = 0.0258) with the mixture (K23).

    An improved glycogen synthesis
    -The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response (K16).
    -Administration of leucine + carbs following exercise increases plasma insulin levels and produces complete recovery of glycogen values (E2).

    GLUTAMINE DOES NOT INCREASE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS

    1)Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).
    2)Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle. Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)

    Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
    -Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
    -Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).

    Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
    -0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
    -Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).

    Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
    -Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
    -Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
    -BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:28 PM.
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    REFERENCES:

    (T1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15831061
    (T4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (T5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (T13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (T17) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (T18) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...85/12/4900#R16
    (T19) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
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    (K3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
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    (K14) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K16) http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00004
    (K17) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K19) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
    (K20b) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
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    (K20d) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20e) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20f) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20g) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20h) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20i) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20j) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K20k) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K21) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8175597
    (K22) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K23) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/85/12/4481
    (K24) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
    (K31) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K32) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K44) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11708314
    (K45) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (K102) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
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    (K138) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...641&query_hl=5
    (K139) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...17&query_hl=12
    (K141) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...742&query_hl=7
    (K143) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...97&query_hl=32
    (K144) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...96&query_hl=33
    (K147) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...665&query_hl=1
    (E1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
    (E5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E14) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E15) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E22) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E23) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    (E101) http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/283/3/E565
    (E102) http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/281/2/E197
    (E105) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t=ExternalLink
    Last edited by Big'r; 09-22-2005 at 02:29 PM.
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    arent those numbers kind of low?

    im 72kg and by your text i would consume a total of 58g of carbs, 30g whey protein and 10g BCAAs around workout.

    by the way, great reading!
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    Good info. You might want to edit those bold and underline symbols though to make it easier to read. I think you need to replace < with [ for example
    [ B ] [ / B ] (w/o the spaces)
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    Originally Posted by avian
    arent those numbers kind of low?

    im 72kg and by your text i would consume a total of 58g of carbs, 30g whey protein and 10g BCAAs around workout.

    by the way, great reading!
    The quantities i suggest are allready at the top limit. More will not increase protein synthesis to a larger degree. This is the absolute max of fysical response.


    Originally Posted by ScrillaKeith
    Good info. You might want to edit those bold and underline symbols though to make it easier to read. I think you need to replace < with [ for example
    [ B ] [ / B ] (w/o the spaces)

    Will do so, but first i'm outta here. Time to train!
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    Originally Posted by Big'r
    The quantities i suggest are allready at the top limit. More will not increase protein synthesis to a larger degree. This is the absolute max of fysical response.
    Tnx for the awnser, may i ask how do you think the rest of the diet should look like?
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    great post dude
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    Originally Posted by avian
    Tnx for the awnser, may i ask how do you think the rest of the diet should look like?

    That's a problem (or possibly is less of a problem than you thought, depends on how you look at it).
    Studies always contradict each others on these points, so it's very difficult to say like 50% of energy should come from carbs.

    Only a few things are pretty clear here what i read. You do not want to go below 15 energy% of either carbs, protein or fats.

    So i pretty much agree on the basic rules. I read a lot about it but not enough to be able to come to conclusions (Except on the idea that more than 1,2-1,8 g/kg protein would increase protein synthesis more. Studies never show any additional benefit. That's not to say you can not eat more. It just will not give you more muscle).
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    thanks

    in actualy trying to translate this post if you dont mind to portuguese (im from brazil), you were the one who wrote it?
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    Originally Posted by avian
    thanks

    in actualy trying to translate this post if you dont mind to portuguese (im from brazil), you were the one who wrote it?
    I do not mind. I'm honoured.
    And yes, i'm the one who wrote it. It took me a couple of hours to compose.
    (Make that a whole lot of hours )
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    Smile

    yes, a great resource. i've seen most of this info elsewhere but not in one place all at once. thanks
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    Originally Posted by Big'r
    I do not mind. I'm honoured.
    And yes, i'm the one who wrote it. It took me a couple of hours to compose.
    (Make that a whole lot of hours )
    could you please clarify what FSR means?

    BTW, great post(s)!

    this helps to explain to me why, a few days ago, when i drank a home-made pre-WO concoction of arginine, leucine and egg protein powder with plenty of sugar i had the most insane appetite after the workout. i mean, my stomach was ready to go after digesting that and the next meal. i loaded up on more carbs than usual. i know if one is hypocaloric and then provides enough the body can respond, but this was something else! it must have been the leucine or the arginine or the combination. i'm an ectomorph, so usually, unless i've really worked it and have been consistently eating a lot, my stomach isn't quite to fast to demand more. my body was screaming that day.

    could someone give more information on what happened? i read a post from MFW (newsgroup) from this dude who had arginine and had a much enhanced appetite. from Big'r's great posts i'm guessing it may be due to leucine, too.
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    Originally Posted by Axel
    could you please clarify what FSR means?

    BTW, great post(s)!

    this helps to explain to me why, a few days ago, when i drank a home-made pre-WO concoction of arginine, leucine and egg protein powder with plenty of sugar i had the most insane appetite after the workout. i mean, my stomach was ready to go after digesting that and the next meal. i loaded up on more carbs than usual. i know if one is hypocaloric and then provides enough the body can respond, but this was something else! it must have been the leucine or the arginine or the combination. i'm an ectomorph, so usually, unless i've really worked it and have been consistently eating a lot, my stomach isn't quite to fast to demand more. my body was screaming that day.

    could someone give more information on what happened? i read a post from MFW (newsgroup) from this dude who had arginine and had a much enhanced appetite. from Big'r's great posts i'm guessing it may be due to leucine, too.

    FSR = protein synthesis (higher FSR = more muscle )

    Don't know about the appetite though. Sorry, i only looked at direct muscle gain via increased protein synthesis.
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    Great to see someone taking the time to spell all this out for people. Lets hope the people who have been doing this a few years have found what works for them; But, this is a great read for those relatively new. The q? is are they reading threads like these...?
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    Originally Posted by Black_Spit
    Great to see someone taking the time to spell all this out for people. Lets hope the people who have been doing this a few years have found what works for them; But, this is a great read for those relatively new. The q? is are they reading threads like these...?
    Answer=yes
    Maybe this should be a sticky?
    Should have started at 24 not 34 :rolleyes:
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    maybe i just missed it, but why the mention of bcaas, whey, carbs, glutamine and not creatine?
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    Angry

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    Originally Posted by Quelly
    maybe i just missed it, but why the mention of bcaas, whey, carbs, glutamine and not creatine?
    good point, i think its because its more inclined to nutritionals tips then supplements tips
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    What about creatine 30 min prior to w/o. Don`t blood creatine (or is it creatanine) levels peak at around 60 minutes?
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    Registered User Big_r's Avatar
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    I will get into the creatine thing guys.
    But this will take some time.
    If i did not read at least 200+ abstracts/complete studies about creatine i will not give any advice.
    All advice i give here is based on science and i want to limit my mistakes.
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    Originally Posted by Big'r
    I will get into the creatine thing guys.
    But this will take some time.
    If i did not read at least 200+ abstracts/complete studies about creatine i will not give any advice.
    All advice i give here is based on science and i want to limit my mistakes.
    We`re not trying to get FDA approval for a new drug or anything here. I think a handful of articles would probably suffice.
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    Absolutely excellent post! I was gonna join here sooner or later, but had to join to say EXCELLENT JOB! I've been doing some research lately myself but this is far more info than I've come across so far. I've spent a whole lot of time reading research trying to separate fact from fiction about optimum pre/post workout nutrition and supplementation. Your post contains what I've come up w also, plus a whole lot more useful info all in concise and well-written format!

    This should be made a sticky! But like previously stated, I would add in your research about creatine (pre vs post wo, loading vs not, cycling vs not, etc) if/ when you do it- Don't rush it though, do it right.

    THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY !!!!!
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    bump
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  29. #29
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    I cannot edit my posts in this thread but i found a hell of a lot more info on glutamine:

    GLUTAMINE DOES NOT INCREASE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS

    Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
    -Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).

    Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
    -Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)

    90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
    -Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
    -Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
    -Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).

    Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
    -Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
    -Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
    -Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
    -Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).

    Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
    -Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
    -Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).

    Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
    -0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
    -Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).

    Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
    -Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
    -Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
    -BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
    -7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).

    Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
    -During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
    -Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
    Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
    -0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).

    Glutamine does not enhance performance
    -6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).



    REFERENCES

    (G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...016&query_hl=1
    (G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...059&query_hl=1
    (G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...116&query_hl=1
    (G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...808&query_hl=1
    (G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...312&query_hl=1
    (G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
    (G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
    (G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...341&query_hl=1
    (G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...939&query_hl=1
    (G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...884&query_hl=1
    (G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...750&query_hl=5
    Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...16#post7234016
    (G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
    (G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/272/3/E437
    (G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...952&query_hl=1
    (G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
    (G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...437&query_hl=1
    (G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...472&query_hl=1
    (G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...663&query_hl=1
    (G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...210&query_hl=1
    (G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...760&query_hl=1
    (G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...166&query_hl=1
    (G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf
    Which SUPPLEMENTS do i use PRE/POSTWORKOUT:
    [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=584191[/url]
    The effects of ANTI-E'S and AI'S on the axis and gyno:
    [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=587578&highlight=raloxifene[/url]
    MILK THISTLE info:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=629438
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  30. #30
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    studies show that it is best to take amino acids PRE workout
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