Dove Real Beauty campaign

[onebratt08]

http://www.dove.com/real_beauty/default.asp (you might have to cut and paste)

I was listening to national radio host Glenn Beck this morning and he brought up the women in the Dove Real Beauty campaign. He talked about how distorted our image of women has become. Next to the pictures of supermodels, the Dove women look large and yet they are skinny for "real women". He's right...look in some (not all) of the BB.com forums that men chat in and they will talk about celebrity women - who's hot, who's not skinny enough, who's boobs are too small. The topic was revisted during the hour of the show, discussion about how he'd like his wife to eat a sandwich, a call from a long-term anorexic, etc. Interesting stuff.

[Miranda]

i don't know. not everybody is reed-thin but to turn 180 degrees and tell people it's OK to be 'fat' isn't healthy either. you know, 'never mind if you're pudgy. be pudgy and be proud of it!' not that they should feel bad about themselves but . . .

[soldieress]

I thought the issue of being fat was moreso about health than image.

If these women are "pudgy" it does not necessarily make them unhealthy. Likewise, if a woman is incredibly lean and haunted by an eating disorder or injecting steroids, it doesn't make them healthy.

Dove was just trying to sell its product, but I think it is a fair point to celebrate "real" women- the diversity of shapes and sizes among the majority of women who do not look like actresses and models but are equally healthy or at least, no more worse of... even if they appear pudgier. It isn't an endorsement of being fat to the point where it is harmful on ones health.

[LinearChaos]

I thought the issue of being fat was moreso about health than image.

If these women are "pudgy" it does not necessarily make them unhealthy. Likewise, if a woman is incredibly lean and haunted by an eating disorder or injecting steroids, it doesn't make them healthy.

Dove was just trying to sell its product, but I think it is a fair point to celebrate "real" women- the diversity of shapes and sizes among the majority of women who do not look like actresses and models but are equally healthy or at least, no more worse of... even if they appear pudgier. It isn't an endorsement of being fat to the point where it is harmful on ones health.

Amen sister! I love these ads, because we (the women on this board) are the minority in America and it's normal to have a little bit of pudge. The women in these ads are no where near being overweight to the point of hurting their health.

i don't know. not everybody is reed-thin but to turn 180 degrees and tell people it's OK to be 'fat' isn't healthy either. you know, 'never mind if you're pudgy. be pudgy and be proud of it!' not that they should feel bad about themselves but . . .

The ads are not telling people it's ok to be fat either, if this is what you're getting out of the campaign then you've missed the point.

[Miranda]

The ads are not telling people it's ok to be fat either, if this is what you're getting out of the campaign then you've missed the point.

what i get out of it is that it's OK to be whatever you are (good huh?) and don't sweat it. maybe it's just me but this reeks of 'oh there's nothing you can do about it so have another big mac' kind of thinking. nothing wrong with that of course - it's your choice. but i think most women on these boards are more about self-improvement.

i've seen one commercial. it was about their 'less favorite' parts. one girl showed nice muscular arms and said 'i'm not that happy about my popeye biceps'
hmmmm.

[LinearChaos]

what i get out of it is that it's OK to be whatever you are (good huh?) and don't sweat it. maybe it's just me but this reeks of 'oh there's nothing you can do about it so have another big mac' kind of thinking. nothing wrong with that of course - it's your choice. but i think most women on these boards are more about self-improvement.

i've seen one commercial. it was about their 'less favorite' parts. one girl showed nice muscular arms and said 'i'm not that happy about my popeye biceps'
hmmmm.

Hell yes we're all about self improvement and you are right the ads do say "be comfortable with you", which is very different from saying "there's nothing you can do about it so have another big mac". I disagree with taking this to that extreme.

[Miranda]

Hell yes we're all about self improvement and you are right the ads do say "be comfortable with you", which is very different from saying "there's nothing you can do about it so have another big mac". I disagree with taking this to that extreme.

let's say you're 'pudgy' (not seriously overweight or unhealthy or anything like that) then of course it's better for your mental health to be happy with what you have rather than rant about it ad nauseatum. that includes that if you go to mcdo a couple a times a week you aren't going to stop doing so. (you probably won't go to the gym either - what for?) it's a free world and unilever is willing to help people with their self-esteem all the way to the bank.

[serinebean]

I support the idea of promoting a healty life style. Not the ones where we starve and pop pills to look rail thin. And for a while it was the thing to do, and still is mostly. And I see a lot of young girls turning down the wrong path to fit in an image they can never be in.
Most of us arent 5'9" and above, and are not a size 4 or less, I think 1% of the population could be a model. Which makes me think, ok so why is she a "model" when none of us look the same in those outfits?
So I think they are on the right path, but not quite. There needs to be an empasis on fitness too.
Id like to see a promoting for female muscle and strength.
I mean yes curves are "girly" but so are muscles. Its just that (I dont think) most women have been brought up thinking, ok I am gonna get ripped because it looks "pretty" most girls are seeking to get thinner.
This is sad to me, that we are considered odd, laughed at, and stared at because we dont want to look rail thin nor do we agree with being "normal" thin weight....whatever that is.
None of those women looked too big to me, they looked just fine in my oppinion. Its not the life I want, but I respect them for breaking the mold and putting their boddies out there to be scrutinized.
Hopefully soon, there will be a push for women to be buff as well.
Just my thoughts on the matter, not trying to ruffle any feathers. Have a great day.

[LinearChaos]

Id like to see a promoting for female muscle and strength.
I mean yes curves are "girly" but so are muscles. Its just that (I dont think) most women have been brought up thinking, ok I am gonna get ripped because it looks "pretty" most girls are seeking to get thinner.

I hear ya! The old nike commercials and the gatorade commercials use more muscular women and female athletes...we need more of these!

[LiftingIsLife]

From a male's perspective: i just went and visited the website, and something must be wrong with me (according to the 'mainstream model thin'
america) but i think these women are REALLY SEXY looking. Pudgy????
hell, my definition of 'pudgy' must be completely offbase, cuz these women
are anything BUT pudgy in my book. curves are attractive! whats wrong with this picture...

in reality, i think MOST men find a woman much more desireable if she ISNT
rail thin. what confuses the issue about models, is that i feel most models
have BEAUTIFUL faces, but NOT beautiful bodies.... unfortunately for most people, you cant 'exercise' your face to look beautiful... but the bodies??
why would anyone want a rail thin body?

got me,
best,
lifer

[LinearChaos]

From a male's perspective: i just went and visited the website, and something must be wrong with me (according to the 'mainstream model thin'
america) but i think these women are REALLY SEXY looking. Pudgy????
hell, my definition of 'pudgy' must be completely offbase, cuz these women
are anything BUT pudgy in my book. curves are attractive! whats wrong with this picture...

in reality, i think MOST men find a woman much more desireable if she ISNT
rail thin. what confuses the issue about models, is that i feel most models
have BEAUTIFUL faces, but NOT beautiful bodies.... unfortunately for most people, you cant 'exercise' your face to look beautiful... but the bodies??
why would anyone want a rail thin body?

got me,
best,
lifer

Nice

[onebratt08]

Remember when Jamie Lee Curtis did the magazine spread in her natural state? She looked good - so do these women. I wouldn't call any of them fat or pudgy. I think they look pretty skinny for normal women (remember, I live in the midwest and we have some seriously obese people here).

I have lots of people who come to Spinning classes, who's bodies haven't changed in the year and a half that I've known them...but they like to workout so that they can have their pizza or ice cream or whatever. They may not have the best dietary habits, but they are keeping their bodies fit from working out. Better than sitting on the couch and eating pizza!

[wantmoresize]

From a male's perspective: i just went and visited the website, and something must be wrong with me (according to the 'mainstream model thin'
america) but i think these women are REALLY SEXY looking. Pudgy????
hell, my definition of 'pudgy' must be completely offbase, cuz these women
are anything BUT pudgy in my book. curves are attractive! whats wrong with this picture...

in reality, i think MOST men find a woman much more desireable if she ISNT
rail thin. what confuses the issue about models, is that i feel most models
have BEAUTIFUL faces, but NOT beautiful bodies.... unfortunately for most people, you cant 'exercise' your face to look beautiful... but the bodies??
why would anyone want a rail thin body?

got me,
best,
lifer

I second that

[imperfectly_lou]

From a male's perspective: i just went and visited the website, and something must be wrong with me (according to the 'mainstream model thin'
america) but i think these women are REALLY SEXY looking. Pudgy????
hell, my definition of 'pudgy' must be completely offbase, cuz these women
are anything BUT pudgy in my book. curves are attractive! whats wrong with this picture...

in reality, i think MOST men find a woman much more desireable if she ISNT
rail thin. what confuses the issue about models, is that i feel most models
have BEAUTIFUL faces, but NOT beautiful bodies.... unfortunately for most people, you cant 'exercise' your face to look beautiful... but the bodies??
why would anyone want a rail thin body?

got me,
best,
lifer

I think I love you

[Miranda]

these women aren't exactly 'pudgy' but they don't look fit to me either. that's why i don't see them as 'role models'.
i want to strive to be the best ME possible, mentally and physically. i'm happy with the way i am but i can always get better. i couldn't imagine myself on the couch eating pizza and then hopping on the treadmill so i can have another pizza and never get anywhere. but that's just me.
i don't think the ads can change much about a woman feels about her body though. women have always measured their self-worth with what they look like because for centuries that WAS their worth. being beautiful and marrying well.

[TigerAngelLeigh]

i don't know. not everybody is reed-thin but to turn 180 degrees and tell people it's OK to be 'fat' isn't healthy either. you know, 'never mind if you're pudgy. be pudgy and be proud of it!' not that they should feel bad about themselves but . . .

They're not though. They are not promoting obesity or even being overweight: just that it is acceptable to not be thin. In Western society, no one bats an eyelid if you're underweight (in fact, a lot of actresses who are portrayed as simply 'slim' are in fact underweight and it's only when they get painfully thin/skeletal that anyone comments on it), but if you're overweight then people think it's OK to ridicule and criticise you. Have you not noticed all the magazines poking fun of celebrities who are pictured with the slightest ripple of cellulite or a bloated stomach? And what about the assumptions? If you're fat, people think you're lazy and therefore dirty. They think that you can't be bothered to look after yourself. From a personal POV, people were far more sympathetic towards me when I was too thin. Once I got obese, they thought it was OK to lecture me about healthy eating and exercise - one classmate at college even recommended her diet of one bread roll a day, then getting drunk on Saturday nights. I had eating disorders when I was both too thin and too fat; the eating disorder was actually far more serious and health-threatening when I was obese, but people weren't concerned about my behaviour, attitude or eating habits (unlike when I was thin): they congratulated me on losing so much weight, when I did it through mainly starvation and abused laxatives and painkillers and self-harmed. Their compliments spurned me further and when I was going through a hard time and started over-eating again, I felt so guilty and ashamed that I began purging.

The Dove campaign isn't saying that it's OK to be fat and neither is anyone else (except those obesity-appreciation sites): they're saying that we should accept that nobody and no body is perfect and stop trying to look like 'perfect' celebrities (who are usually airbrushed within an inch of their life anyway). Their point is that the media's constant portrayal of too-thin women as the ideal is dangerous and just serves to fuel eating disorders. I know i can't fully blame my eating disorder on the media, but it doesn't help when you get bombarded with images of celebrities and models - I've wasted many hours cutting out pictures of underweight women and writing about how I'd be just like them when I lost enough weight (pretty, rich, famous, happy). The sad thing is that I had a good body before I decided I wasn't thin enough and if I had not had an eating disorder, I daresay that my body would be enviable, instead of disgusting. The irony of all of this is that it is actually healthier (medically) to be slightly overweight than underweight by the same amount. But then, we don't hear so much about the dangers of being too thin or not eating enough, do we? The media is full of how obesity puts you at risk of cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. but when was the last time you saw a feature on the illnesses you risk through being too thin? If you did, it was probably just a few lines on why a certain celebrity should gain a little weight. Or perhaps, like a thinner body, diseases like osteoporosis are seen as more desirable? If you think that, then you've obviously never had the misfortune to see what it does to people.

Insulting and criticising overweight people - through the media or otherwise (beleive me, people are far more forthright in telling you you're too fat than too thin) - is pointless and useless. If people are strong enough to be happy with themselves as they are, then those comments will just bounce off their back and make no difference. If they are unhappy with their weight already, the comments are likely to make it a lot worse: many times a well-meaning-but-meddling comment about how I should do more exercise/follow a certain diet has sent me straight to the kitchen in search of junk food. Most fat people realise they're fat and don't need others to hurtfully remind them of it all the time. Even when I was doing something about it, people still made remarks and instead of motivating me, they made me more like to give up.

In the UK these last couple of weeks, newspapers have shown photos of plus-sized TV presenter Fern Britton in a bikini. She looks happy in the photos and this is backed up by her sunny attitude. However, journalists are not content with that: they took the opportunity to slate her about how unhealthy she must be and how she should lose weight. Why? What good will that do? If I were Fern, I'd be bingeing on ice cream, but luckily she's stronger than that and replied to those critics yesterday on This Morning (a UK daytime TV show): she pointed out that those people don't know her. They don't know how hard she tries to eat healthily, they don't know how hard it is to get in shape whe as a working mother of four she is at the bottom of her priority list and - until yesterday - they didn't know that she has taken up cycling to get fit and do a charity bike ride along the Nile. And you know what? She's right. You may look at an obese person in the street and make assumptions, but you don't know them. You don't know whether they suffer from a physical problem that prevents them from losing weight, whether they are struggling with Binge Eating Disorder, whether they've actually lost 100lbs already. Yes, they may just eat too much and not exercise enough, but you don't know that. You don't have a damn clue.

There's really no need to talk extremes though: Dove is NOT saying that we should be fat, just that we should love ourselves and our bodies and take care of ourselves. What's so wrong in that? I think the biggest problem that society has with overweight women who are genuinely happy is that it flies in the face of their beliefs: how dare she be happy when society dictates that all fat people must be greedy, unloved and miserable? It's important to have a good body image at any size, because it's easy to change your weight but harder to change your attitudes. If you have a bad body image at 200lbs, why should it be any different at 150lbs or even 100lbs? I've been there and believe me, it isn't; so if any person - no matter how disgusting their body may seem to you - can have a healthy attitude towards themselves, they deserve to be congratulated rather than criticised.

[TigerAngelLeigh]

these women aren't exactly 'pudgy' but they don't look fit to me either. that's why i don't see them as 'role models'.

That's fair enough that you don't personally see them as role models, but you have no idea how fit they are. I've been stick thin and wasn't at all fit: you could see some of my muscles because there was no fat covering them, but I would struggle in an hour PE lesson at school. I've been overweight and fitter than a lot of healthy and under weight women I know. In fact, if you're underweight, chances are you feel so weak that you wouldn't be able to do any exercise - I nearly fainted when walking for 2 minutes between classes! Physical fitness is about a lot more than whether you look 'toned'. In Celebrity Fit Club (UK TV show), a presenter (and ex-big brother contestant) called Alison Hammond amazed the panel: she was obese and yet incredibly fit. The fitness instructor was astounded that anyone that weight could be so fit. Alison explained it: she had no problem with exercise, but ate a lot. So if even professionals can be amazed by the fitness of an obese woman, you may well be amazed by the fitness of the dove women - most of whom look like they're a healthy weight.

[Miranda]

If people are strong enough to be happy with themselves as they are, then those comments will just bounce off their back and make no difference.

fair enough. but this has to do with inner strength and confidence, not what you look like. female bodybuilders are ridiculed by the general population for their physical appearence but it doesn’t make them hate themselves. you can be 200 pounds and completely happy or 100 pounds and feel like ****. or vice versa.

Dove is NOT saying that we should be fat, just that we should love ourselves and our bodies and take care of ourselves. What's so wrong in that?

nothing. except i don’t like the idea of women being told what to think about themselves. why can’t women develop a strong sense of self and stop following everything television or magazine ads shove down their throats? with all due respect, i don’t see the dove campaign as anything else than a marketing gimmick. they’ll develop another strategy in a few years. what’s the difference between looking at dove ads and hoping you’ll love yourself once you’ve bought the shower gel and buying a can of coke so you’ll be like the people in the coca-cola community? marketing = cancer. the bottom line is, if you’re not happy on the inside, you’ll never be happy with the outside. no matter what dove tells you.

That's fair enough that you don't personally see them as role models, but you have no idea how fit they are

. . . and neither do you . they are just models. maybe they are in a good condition. maybe they’re couch potatoes. we don’t know.
. . . as for me thinking the girls aren’t exactly ‘fit’, well, that’s just how i see it – politically correct or not. one can’t be objective on such matters.

a lot of women want to look like fashion models. other love the look of a fitness pro. some girls might like the look of the dove models. all have one thing in common – they’re an (idealized) image of what one should look like and that’s where i don’t agree.

[darkangel]

Personally, I like Nike's approach much better...

http://www.adrants.com/2005/08/nike-...-thighsand.php

As an ecto, I must respond to this:

In Western society, no one bats an eyelid if you're underweight (in fact, a lot of actresses who are portrayed as simply 'slim' are in fact underweight and it's only when they get painfully thin/skeletal that anyone comments on it), but if you're overweight then people think it's OK to ridicule and criticise you.

Many times, I've found the exact opposite to be true. So many Americans are overweight, that "no one bats an eyelid" until someone gets morbidly obese. On the other hand, I've been tormented for being "skinny" (hate that word) all of my life. Oddly enough, it's considered rude to walk up to someone and say, "You're so fat. Why don't you quit eating?" but it's totally acceptable to say, "You're so skinny. Why don't you just eat?"

I belong to a weight training forum specifically for hardgainers/ectomorphs. The members are almost all male. Every once in a while, someone starts a thread on the subject of teasing and abuse for "skinny" people and the stories would break your heart. Ostracism, public humiliation, name-calling, shame, people (even friends) laughing at you.

Trust me... being naturally thin is not necessarily the key to happiness.

[serinebean]

Not to sound weird, but that is a great bootie! I am envious of that! Going to go do ten thousand lunges....lol!

[Pink]

I think Dove is just trying to show the diversity of beautiful women. If you notice the women in media/magazines, they are primarily young (say under 35), white, skinny, long straight hair (mostly blonde), with large breasts. There are some exceptions to this rule, but it's like you have to look this certain way in order to be considered beautiful. Even Beyonce has to try and look white.

Dove is showing real women of color, different sizes, ages, short hair, curly hair, etc., and saying we are beautiful too. Now they just need to add some muscle to the campaign!