Bulking tips and advice? Scared! Thanks!

[eminva]

Hey girls! I've decided that after a decade of gaining and losing the same 5-10 pounds I'm in need of some muscle gain to get back what I've stupidly lost over the years of beign a cardio bunny. I'm 5'2" 110lbs, 21% body fat, which leaves me with only about 87lbs of lean body mass. I know in the long run I'll be better off if I have some more muscle on my frame, and this will make it easier to maintain a slightly lower body fat without having to weigh 105lbs. I've been lifting for a year but always while eating less than maintenance so I haven't seen much gain.

So! I'm starting with a mini bulk. One month, starting with eating a little over maintenance - maybe 100-150cals over? More protein (aiming for 1-1.5 g per lb of bw) and lfiting 3-4 times a week.

What else? Should I still do some HIIT cardio or limit that? Anything else I can do to gain as little fat as possible? I'd like to gain 1-5 pounds of muscle in the long run but I'd be thrilled with 1-2 pounds for now. I'm not looking to gain much size, just shift my body comp a bit so I can maintain around 19% body fat eventually.

Thanks SO much!

[imperfectly_lou]

If you're only going to eat 100-150calories over maintenance, I would eliminate your cardio for now, at least initially... I used to have the same problem and it was so frustrating because I never saw the results of all my hard work in the gym. Take a leap of faith and see how you go

[MauiZos]

You're not going to gain 1-2lbs of actual muscle in a month with only 100-150 over maintenance while still doing cardio, especially HIIT. Gaining muscle is hard and it means eating your face off, no cardio, and being prepared to gain some body fat.

I'd eliminate the cardio, except some light walking perhaps. Eating very clean will help to limit bodyfat gain. Time your carbs appropriately around your workouts and make sure you get enough protein. Sleep is also essential 8-9 hours for sure.

Aim for about 100g of carbs at breakfast, smaller amounts through out the day and another 100g of carbs with your PWO protein.

[Amanda76]

You've gotten great advice so far.

I think you need to spend more time bulking (the rest of the winter, at least), and think of the 100-150 cals above maintenance as a start (I do agree you aren't going to get the results you want with so little a surplus). While I can't tell you an exact magic number, you'll probably find you'll need to eat closer to 300 over to begin to see and feel a change...and you'll still have to raise it every so often from there. Adding 100 daily calories a week is a good way to warm your appetite up to it and keep from eating way more than you need...but you'll probably find the only way you'll end up doing that is if you start making desserts and junk a regular part of your diet. While you don't want to totally blimp out, you DO need to try not to get too caught up in keeping fat off when you're bulking. Eating your face off is exactly what it feels like, especially when you're eating clean.

[eminva]

Thnaks for the tips. I'll definitely adjust my calories as I go but man, this is a big change in thinking and hard to adjust to!

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

That is all awesome advice. I am also trying to bulk up some. I only initially raised my calories by 150-200 calories above maintanance, but I dropped HIT cardio as well. I already feel like Im eating a ton.

You might also want to check out some of the bulking articles in the Contest Prep section. There is one on Bulking based on your phenotype. Those definitely helped me get an idea on how to go in the right direction as well.

I am planning on trying to do a figure/fitness competition in the future, Im giving myself 6 months to try and get prepared. I really want to try it, so that is where my goals are at the moment.

Good luck Eminva

[freebirdmac]

I'm confused. Again. I thought a reasonable muscle weight gain was on the order of .5 lb a month. Maybe 1 lb if relatively new. But we're supposed to eat enough to gain .5 lb to 1 lb a week? Over 6 months that's around 12 - 24 lbs total gain with a muscle gain of 3 - 6 pounds. That's a 4:1 ratio. And a lot of fat being added on just to get 3 pounds of muscle. Is that really the optimal? It's easy to understand a 1:1 ratio, even 2:1, but 4:1?

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

I'm confused. Again. I thought a reasonable muscle weight gain was on the order of .5 lb a month. Maybe 1 lb if relatively new. But we're supposed to eat enough to gain .5 lb to 1 lb a week? Over 6 months that's around 12 - 24 lbs total gain with a muscle gain of 3 - 6 pounds. That's a 4:1 ratio. And a lot of fat being added on just to get 3 pounds of muscle. Is that really the optimal? It's easy to understand a 1:1 ratio, even 2:1, but 4:1?

Im not necessarily planning on bulking for 6 months. But I dont know. I just meant Im giving myself that long to prepare. I dont expect being completely new at something like that to be able to do it in alot less time is all. There is alot involved. (at least in my eyes) Also, it looks that alot of competitions dont start again really until around March/April anyway. And I may decide Im a really big chicken and not do it at all! lol. Not sure if you were addressing your post towards me or just the whole thread in general

[freebirdmac]

Not sure if you were addressing your post towards me or just the whole thread in general

It was towards the whole post.

It seems for people starting out at a low body weight, but a relatively high bf (skinny-fat) that bulking "normally" could raise bf too high and that maybe shorter cycles of so-called bulking and cutting would be better. That is, if those numbers I posted are close to correct.

[Amanda76]

I'm confused. Again. I thought a reasonable muscle weight gain was on the order of .5 lb a month. Maybe 1 lb if relatively new. But we're supposed to eat enough to gain .5 lb to 1 lb a week? Over 6 months that's around 12 - 24 lbs total gain with a muscle gain of 3 - 6 pounds. That's a 4:1 ratio. And a lot of fat being added on just to get 3 pounds of muscle. Is that really the optimal? It's easy to understand a 1:1 ratio, even 2:1, but 4:1?

You are neglecting to account for is the extra energy it will take to break down and repair muscle in order to acheive extra pounds of muscle...and the extra calories more muscle will burn while at work, and how many calories it will take to simply maintain that muscle. So long as you assume that a person will be successful in their attempt to gain muscle DURING the time they are trying to gain muscle (and not just a sudden leap in muscle and fat at the end of 6 months), it makes sense that a need for additional calories starts to take place immediately for the purpose of supporting muscle.

That being said, most people don't realize they can maintain on a more than what they are maintaining on. Adding 100 daily cals to your maintenance cals often just leads you to...continue to maintain.

Right off the bat, men will gain approximately .5 - 1lb a week under optimal cicumstances. Gains begin to slow for people who have been training for several months. The closer you get to your genetic limit, gains come even more slowly (.25 lbs/week for men). Women have even more difficulty making gains (especially in the real world where life gets in the way sometimes) so yes, 1 lb in a month would be fabulous progress for a female.

[Amanda76]

It was towards the whole post.

It seems for people starting out at a low body weight, but a relatively high bf (skinny-fat) that bulking "normally" could raise bf too high and that maybe shorter cycles of so-called bulking and cutting would be better. That is, if those numbers I posted are close to correct.

What happens with most people when they bulk is that they do take some extra liberties when it comes to their diet. That's one reason why I focus on making gains over staying lean during holiday season, as a matter of fact. It's those extra liberties that normally end up in more fat gain than is necessary.

[terracotta]

I bulked for 8 months from a high bodyfat percentage (skinnyfat) and I was happy with the results.

[freebirdmac]

You are neglecting to account for is the extra energy it will take to break down and repair muscle in order to acheive extra pounds of muscle...and the extra calories more muscle will burn while at work, and how many calories it will take to simply maintain that muscle. So long as you assume that a person will be successful in their attempt to gain muscle DURING the time they are trying to gain muscle (and not just a sudden leap in muscle and fat at the end of 6 months), it makes sense that a need for additional calories starts to take place immediately for the purpose of supporting muscle.

That being said, most people don't realize they can maintain on a more than what they are maintaining on. Adding 100 daily cals to your maintenance cals often just leads you to...continue to maintain.

Right off the bat, men will gain approximately .5 - 1lb a week under optimal cicumstances. Gains begin to slow for people who have been training for several months. The closer you get to your genetic limit, gains come even more slowly (.25 lbs/week for men). Women have even more difficulty making gains (especially in the real world where life gets in the way sometimes) so yes, 1 lb in a month would be fabulous progress for a female.

So the 4x gain isn't fully realized on the scale or in bf measurements, except for some fluctuation during the bulking time period? If that's the case I sure wish that was laid out clearer. It's very scary to think about having to gain 4x desired lean mass and the resulting increase in bf. Heck I'd be considered average weight with a bf of 30%! It really does sound like at the end of a bulk one would be in that position.

[freebirdmac]

What happens with most people when they bulk is that they do take some extra liberties when it comes to their diet. That's one reason why I focus on making gains over staying lean during holiday season, as a matter of fact. It's those extra liberties that normally end up in more fat gain than is necessary.

I wish I could take extra liberties! My idea of a cheat day is not having to stuff my face with all this food and feeling like I need to puke all day

[freebirdmac]

I bulked for 8 months from a high bodyfat percentage (skinnyfat) and I was happy with the results.

What was your bf when you started the bulk and then when you finished?

[Amanda76]

So the 4x gain isn't fully realized on the scale or in bf measurements, except for some fluctuation during the bulking time period? If that's the case I sure wish that was laid out clearer. It's very scary to think about having to gain 4x desired lean mass and the resulting increase in bf. Heck I'd be considered average weight with a bf of 30%! It really does sound like at the end of a bulk one would be in that position.

Right, there will be bodyfat fluctuation because when bulking you are going to make sure there is a calorie surplus (scraping by will slow your gains)...but excess calories that are being put to use aren't going to be stored as fat. You can play around with your cals to gain and lose weight (fat/muscle combo) as quickly or slowly as you desire...It gets less scary when you realize how quickly fat comes off when your metabolism has been sped up by adding lean mass so you will be more likely to allow for more weight gain as time goes on if the thought of gaining 10 lbs freaks you out. But you do need to set a solid goal and stick with it to get the best results.

Lets say that at 130 lbs I'm at 18% bodyfat. That leaves me with 106.6 lbs of lean mass. I used to weigh 110 lbs (of skinny-fat cardio-bunnyness ). If abs are a decent indicator of leanness, I have better abs at 130 than I did at 110, so somehow, I'm leaner at a MUCH heavier weight. I also have a better butt. At this point, it would be impossible for me to weigh 110 and keep the lean mass I've gained...unless we consider 4% bodyfat to be a realistic amount of fat for a woman to carry. LOL Can you think of a better way that I could have possibly put on enough muscle to make that much of a difference in my body composition without allowing for at least a little fat gain here and there? At some points spread out over the last 4-5 years, I had to eat a lot of extra calories, wouldn't you say?

[Amanda76]

I wish I could take extra liberties! My idea of a cheat day is not having to stuff my face with all this food and feeling like I need to puke all day

I know...I would not like being in your shoes. Thanksgiving would have been so boring. Either that, or I'd have spent the next week paying for it. How did you manage T-day, anyway?

[freebirdmac]

I know...I would not like being in your shoes. Thanksgiving would have been so boring. Either that, or I'd have spent the next week paying for it. How did you manage T-day, anyway?

T-day was like any other day. Same foods. I just bring my own if someone else is cooking. That really doesn't bother me anymore, watching everyone else eat what I can't. It's just not worth the wheezing, hives, headaches, flu-like symptoms, etc. Plus I never have to worry about feeling guilty about what I ate. I still have the overeating issues, but now that's daily And I'm just now breaking the 1500 cals a day barrier. I have to get to 1650 to be at maintenance (I think).

Thanks for all the help and support!

I hope eminva has an easier time getting the cals in.

[Amanda76]

T-day was like any other day. Same foods. I just bring my own if someone else is cooking. That really doesn't bother me anymore, watching everyone else eat what I can't. It's just not worth the wheezing, hives, headaches, flu-like symptoms, etc. Plus I never have to worry about feeling guilty about what I ate. I still have the overeating issues, but now that's daily And I'm just now breaking the 1500 cals a day barrier. I have to get to 1650 to be at maintenance (I think).

Thanks for all the help and support!

I hope eminva has an easier time getting the cals in.

I guess it's really more about being with your family than eating the food, anyway.

The rest of us just get sick of eating out of laziness. At least we have a bit more choice.

[runlift22]

I'm also bulking... and I love cardio. I do it almost every morning because I just love the way it makes me feel. I just do 30 minutes, pretty low intensity (heart rate at 138-145). Is this really hampering my muscle gains? I don't do it to burn calories- I do it because it makes me feel good. But if you really think I could gain more muscle without it, I guess I would give it up I just dont see how it really hampers muscle gains as long as I eat enough.

[terracotta]

What was your bf when you started the bulk and then when you finished?

I haven't a clue. I know it's lower now than it was in 2005 when I started, and I don't regret bulking.

I should also say that most of my fat gain is from time on vacation, including my honeymoon, and time visiting family, NOT from bulking. I do terrible when I don't have kitchen control.

[eminva]

Yeesh. i always thought bulking would be fun but it's sucks already! I'm so used to eating clean at 1300-1400 calories (like I said, only 86 lbs of lean body weight here) or maintaining at 1500-1700 not so clean calories. Trying to get 1650 clean calories (to start) was freakin hard! I ended up having a little sweet treat after dinner but I still got more protien than ever before (120 grams, I'm working on it!) and I felt very un-hungry allll day. I just can't fit all that food. Clean stuff takes up a lot of space.

I also have started taking CLA after reading a bunch of really interesting articles on it.

Blah! This is going to be hard. I don't know how I'd ever eat as much as some girls on here without eating two whole chickens a day.

Sigh. I wish bulking involved a surplus of carbs and sugar! Then I could do it easily! When it's protein and veggies, not so much.

[eminva]

Not to mention, this is a major mental hurdle for me. Gaining weight on purpose really scares me and I hope I managed to gain some muscle so I can get rid of the extra fat a little faster.

I've made some muscle gains in the past year while dieting so I'm hoping that my body will just be so psyched to be properly fed that I'll just pack it on! Haha! Maybe I'm the type of person that gains muscle easily but I've just been holding myself back- it COULD happen... maybe!

So the difference between eating 1700 clean calories and (1550 clean + 150 treat) is more fat, less muscle, right?

[freebirdmac]

Yeesh. i always thought bulking would be fun but it's sucks already! I'm so used to eating clean at 1300-1400 calories (like I said, only 86 lbs of lean body weight here) or maintaining at 1500-1700 not so clean calories. Trying to get 1650 clean calories (to start) was freakin hard! I ended up having a little sweet treat after dinner but I still got more protien than ever before (120 grams, I'm working on it!) and I felt very un-hungry allll day. I just can't fit all that food. Clean stuff takes up a lot of space.

I also have started taking CLA after reading a bunch of really interesting articles on it.

Blah! This is going to be hard. I don't know how I'd ever eat as much as some girls on here without eating two whole chickens a day.

Sigh. I wish bulking involved a surplus of carbs and sugar! Then I could do it easily! When it's protein and veggies, not so much.

I so agree! I was full eating clean at 1350. I have managed to push 1600 this week but it is hard as heck! I felt like puking many times. And 1650 seems to be my maintenance. Good grief!

A couple of items I add in to get the cals up, POM pomegranate juice (nothing else added, no corn, no sulfites, no garbage) and sunflower butter by the tablespoon. I always have 2 pieces of dark chocolate on the menu. sue me!

I don't add the POM and sunflower butter everyday, if I can help it, but at least they are good foods. I am eating as much protein as I can, at least 100 grams, but much more and my body doesn't like it. Oh, and 2 sweet potatoes a day (or one very large one). I'm going to try to increase the amount of oatmeal I eat in the morning too.

Just think hard about the different clean foods you do like and split your meals up. I can't do that at dinner time so that's when I am the most stuffed. I'm gradually stretching my stomach, but you're right, it's hard!!!!

[twinnett]

How are your fats?? Healthy fats are an easy way to add calories w/out filling you up too much!

[freebirdmac]

Not to mention, this is a major mental hurdle for me. Gaining weight on purpose really scares me and I hope I managed to gain some muscle so I can get rid of the extra fat a little faster.

I've made some muscle gains in the past year while dieting so I'm hoping that my body will just be so psyched to be properly fed that I'll just pack it on! Haha! Maybe I'm the type of person that gains muscle easily but I've just been holding myself back- it COULD happen... maybe!

So the difference between eating 1700 clean calories and (1550 clean + 150 treat) is more fat, less muscle, right?

X300!

[jackie_p_1999]

Be sure as well to lift heavy and to failure. 6-8 reps max. That is critical for bulking.

[Kris83]

I am trying to bulk as well. I have spent the last 6 months trimming down and toning up. Now I want to bulk a little. But I am scared that if I start eating more I will gain weight.

At this point I am eating about 1500 calories a day with mostly nutritious food other than the odd bad snack. I am also doing 1 hour of weight training and 20 mins of cardio 4 - 5 times a week.

How do I make sure all this food doesn't turn into fat?

[sportyhp]

How are your fats?? Healthy fats are an easy way to add calories w/out filling you up too much!

ya this is how i can reach around 2000-2200 a day: cottage cheese, nuts, pb, even chicken salad sandwiches twice a week

[terracotta]

Yes, fats are a very easy way to get those calories up. For a treat, make Reese's shakes - 1 scoop choco whey, 1 cup milk, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter. You can also add a banana in there. Also good is 1 scoop vanilla whey, 1 cup milk, 1 tbsp almond butter, 1 banana. YUM.

You can have 1% milk, 1 or 2% cottage cheese, mixed nuts, whole wheat bread or rye bread or bagels! Oh, whole eggs are great. Don't eat chicken breast, switch to skinless chicken thighs for a bit more fat.

I'm very good at bulking