I'm So Tired

[MarkL]

Greetings, I will first introducce myself and then I will state my problem.
I am a 40 yr old male who works a job that consists of driving a Ford Crown Vic around an area of So. Cal for 12 hrs a day (No, not a cabby), and I live about an hour away from my place of employment. I am on the road between 13-15 hrs a day. Fortunately I only work 3 and 4 days a week.
I have been lifting for many years and have never reached the condition I have hoped for (Big and Ripped). That is in part to my lifestyle. I have used tobacco products cigs, snuff since I was about 12-13 yrs old. and I love beer. I have been pretty good, until recently about keeping the body fat down. If ya saw me you would know I lifted. I am 5'10 and weigh between 185-199.
Heres the prob, 2 weeks ago I quit using tobacco (I was dipping Skoal). Prior to quitting I was able to work out 4x's a week and work my long days. Now I can barely keep my eyes open at work, I am lucky to complete a workout and I have packed on ten pounds of fat. I cant stop eating. Is this some withdrawl from the tobacco that will soon pass? Needless to say along with those things somes a mild case of depression.
About a year ago I had my test levels checked and they were, according to my doctor, really low. I dont remember the numbers, I just remember him saying that for my age they were at the lowest end of the scale. I had hoped to get on a test program. Due to my insurance policy that never happened. I think I just answered my own question. Could it be my low testosterone levels are causing my fatigue and that the lack of nicotine has intensified that? Pleaase give me some feedback. I am actually concidering buying a can of Skoal to get me back where I was prior to quitting.

[Minotaur]

Is this some withdrawl from the tobacco that will soon pass?

Yes. Withdrawal from tobacco causes big changes in body chemistry. You probably crave carbs, which not only stimulate fat storage but also cause you to hold water. Drink MORE water to flush your system.

There are herbal remdies to help you get over the smoking withdrawal. Almost 11 years ago I quit smoking cigarettes and used something from GNC called Smoking Cessation, or Smoking Withdrawal or... well, something like that. Either it was placebo or it really did work. Granted, I was exercising, but I didn't gain an ounce nor have any cravings.

People who quit tobacco usually do gain weight and experience mood swings. It will pass, but you have to fight it all the way, physically and mentally.

[Mikey170]

There are lots of studies out there now that are dealing with depression and smoking. Google, (tobacco depression) and a bunch wil pop up.

I have only browsed the articles but it looks like you and your problem are in one of those articles. Just off the top of my head I would say that you might have already been depressed and you were somehow treating it or keeping it at bay with the stimulant effects of the tobacco.
It might be time for a trip to the doctor to see if he or she thinks you might need meds, but first I would read or skim the articles so you have ammunitiion to throw at the medico..

Other than that I can tell you that one of the best treatments for depression is working out and eating right...Somehow when the body is healthy the mind soon falls in place...so the only suggestion I have there is drink some coffee, get yourself to gym, and bust some ass.

[joed]

If it was me I wouldn't go back to the tobacco, or the tobacco substitutes. Your body has adjusted to being with out it for 2 wks. Deal with where you are now. Focus on your diet, drink lots of water & get out of the car & move around even if for 5 mins. at a time. 2 wks ago you made a great positive change; now take the next steps.

Welcome.

[IronHavoc]

Congrats on quiting the tobacco, do yourself a favor DONT go back to it. You already quit good job.

Now your problem is prob. a mix of things withdraws from quiting tobacco, low test will definitley affect your energy, workouts, gains, fat, etc.\

Good news is withdraws will subside, and the others can be helped through proper diet and natural supplements.

[hogship]

Part of defeating an addiction is to understand that your mind will justify and make excuses for buying tobacco. There are multitudes of people who have gone back to using tobacco for the same reason you are thinking about it......gaining weight. You must understand that eating more is simply your body and mind compensating for the loss of something it had been used to.....tobacco.

You have to fight it, even if it means gaining some weight. You can deal with the weight issue, but the damage tobacco causes is permanent.

I quit smoking five years ago, gained a lot of weight. I'm still dealing with it....probably always will.

hog

[AssToGrass]

Yep. When I quit smoking I felt like royal ass for about 6-8 weeks - first it was the physical withdrawl and the lack of the stimulant effect it provides. Then it was of course mild depression from missing the slight endorphin release tobacco stimulates. I was in a pretty rotten mood.

Don't worry about the weight. Quitting is more important right now. If you feel like snacking all the time take a little cooler with some celerey and natural peanut butter. Carrots or something. If you can tough it out you'll feel better sooner than you think.

Don't let your mind justify going back. You'd be surprised how you will try to convince yourself. That's junkie behavior which I'm sure you recognize from seeing the types of people you do in your job. You're tougher than the tobacco man.

[Sabrina_113]

...2 weeks ago I quit using tobacco (I was dipping Skoal). Prior to quitting I was able to work out 4x's a week and work my long days. Now I can barely keep my eyes open at work, I am lucky to complete a workout and I have packed on ten pounds of fat. I cant stop eating.

First, congrats on making the move to quit! It is so hard to give up old habits.

I haven't ever used/quit tobacco so I don't know if I can really help, except to say I had to give up coffee a few months ago for health reasons and my energy crashed for weeks. It was so bad I thought about going back to it all the time. However, eventually, I was finally able to not only regain but surpass my previous energy levels.

I hope you can battle through this tough time and make it to the other side. Good luck!

[Sabrina_113]

...take a little cooler with some celerey and natural peanut butter.

That is one of my favorite snacks! I even bought special containers to keep the PB separate to dip into.

[hogship]

Celery and natural peanut butter.......me, too, just love it!

I've heard the celery consumes more calories to digest than is in it.....but, the natural peanut butter sure isn't on the weight reducing list! Great snack, though.

hog

[CoachMike]

Tobacco (nicotine), caffeine, ephedrine, etc. can mask drops in vitality by beating the stuffing out of our adrenals. . .and hiding that the beer has driven our T levels down.

I suggest to you checking if you fit the andropausal profile . .a test patch can put spring in the step and vitality in the metabolism. Easy read here + self test (I needed it at 40 !):

http://www.andropause.ca


I've had a few clients have great success stop smoking using homeopathy:
http://www.homeopathic.com/articles/intro/tobacco.php

To heal the adrenals and heal the body I have my clients use this:
http://www.genuinehealth.com/english...38&section=160

If you think the liver's been done in some from all this toxins here's a quick note:
?
The liver is involved in the variety of functions, including:
1 Synthesis and secretion of bile salts o Needed for the digestion and absorption of fats
2 Endocrine Functions
? Secretes IGF-I in response to GH
? Synthesizes triiodothyronine (T3) from Thyroxine (T4)
? Secretes cytokines needed by the immune system
3 Blood Clotting
4 Synthesis of Proteins
? Plasma albumin, lipoproteins, various hormone binding proteins
5 Metabolism
? Glycogenolysis
? Gluconeogenesis
? Ketone formation
6 Cholesterol Metabolism
7 Excretory Functions
? Secretes bilirubin
? Metabolizes and excretes foreign and hazardous molecules
This is by no means an extensive list of the liver’s functions. Damage to the liver can result in the malfunction or cessation of its functions, which can lead to various ailments and even death. Therefore, it is vital to keep your liver healthy and running optimally. All athletes should be mindful of their liver health, but this is especially true for athletes that take any sort of prohormone or steroid as these substances can damage the liver. There are three supplements that can aid in keeping your liver healthy (and also have many other beneficial effects): Milk Thistle (Silymarin), NAC, and ALA.

Milk thistle has been used for ages to treat various diseases, most prominently liver disease. Silymarin is the active component of milk thistle. Silymarin is an antioxidant [1], increases protein synthesis in the liver leading to faster regeneration of liver cells [2], and prevents toxins from binding to receptor sites of the liver [3]. Silymarin also has anti-inflammatory [2] and anti-cancer properties [4, 5].

Supplementing with Milk Thistle will decrease the possibility of suffering liver damage while using steroids and will help the liver regenerate its liver when the usage of steroids is ceased. For the natural athlete, supplementing with Milk Thistle will ensure optimal liver health.

N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) is derived from the non-essential amino acid cysteine. Because cysteine is very unstable, supplementing with NAC allows one to get the benefits of cysteine. NAC is an antioxidant itself [8] and is also used to synthesize the powerful antioxidant glutathoine. Glutathione has its own antioxidant properties, but it also regenerates vitamin C and E [6]. Glutathione is found in high concentrations in the liver and is involved in the protection against toxic compounds and oxidative stress of the liver. Most importantly to the topic at hand, NAC has been shown to protect the liver from damage [9]. Since intense exercise depletes glutathione [6, 7], supplementing with NAC can be helpful in restoring glutathione levels and protecting the liver.

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) is both a fat and water-soluble antioxidant. It has been shown to work in synergy with vitamin C, vitamin E, and Glutathione (NAC). ALA “recycles” vitamin C, and both vitamin C and E “recycle” ALA. It also directly increases Glutathione levels [10]. ALA has been used to cure liver damage caused by poisonous mushrooms, alcohol, metals, and other poisons due to its ability to remove toxic minerals from the body [11]. ALA is a very potent antioxidant and a great addition to any regime.

We only have one liver, so it is vital to keep it healthy and functioning optimally. The combination of Milk Thistle, NAC, and ALA will work synergistically with one another to keep your liver healthy by increasing its antioxidant levels and protecting it from oxidative stress and damage. All three of these supplements can be found here at Bulk Nutrition. I highly recommend Bulk Nutrition’s Pro Liver, which contains Milk Thistle and NAC, and Primaforce Pure ALA.

References

Chlopcikova S, Psotova J, Miketova P, Simanek V. Chemoprotective effect of plant phenolics against anthracycline-induced toxicity on rat cardiomyocytes. Part I. Silymarin and its flavonolignans. Phytother Res. 2004 Feb;18(2):107-10.

Dvorak Z, Kosina P, Walterova D, Simanek V, Bachleda P, Ulrichova J.Primary cultures of human hepatocytes as a tool in cytotoxicity studies: cell protection against model toxins by flavonolignans obtained from Silybum marianum. Toxicol Lett. 2003 Feb 3;137(3):201-12.

Jacobs BP, Dennehy C, Ramirez G, Sapp J, Lawrence VA. Milk thistle for the treatment of liver disease: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Am J Med. 2002 Oct 15;113(6):506-15.

Singh RP, Agarwal R. Prostate cancer prevention by silibinin. Curr Cancer Drug Targets. 2004 Feb;4(1):1-11.

Tyagi AK, Agarwal C, Singh RP, Shroyer KR, Glode LM, Agarwal R. Silibinin down-regulates survivin protein and mRNA expression and causes caspases activation and apoptosis in human bladder transitional-cell papilloma RT4 cells.

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 Dec 26;312(4):1178-84. Bounous G, Molson J. 1999 Competition for glutathione precursors between the immune system and the skeletal muscle: pathogenesis of chronic fatuge syndrome. Med Hypothesis 53;(4): 347-349.

Sen CK. 1999 Glutathione homeostasis in response to exercise training and nutritional supplements. Molecular & Cellular Biochemistry. 196:31-42.

Aruoma O,et al.1989 The antioxidant action of N-acetylcysteine: its reaction with hydrogen peroxide, hydroxyl radical, superoxide and hypochlorous acid. Free Radical Biol.Med.6:593-597.

Kelly GD. Clinical applications of N-acetylcysteine. Altern Med Rev. 1998 Apr;3(2):114-27. Review.

Hultberg B, Andersson A, Isaksson A. Lipoic acid increases glutathione production and enhances the effect of mercury in human cell lines. Toxicology 2002 Jun 14;175(1-3):103-10

Bustamante J; Lodge JK; Marcocci L; Tritschler HJ; Packer L; Rihn BH. Alpha-lipoic acid in liver metabolism and disease. Free Radic Biol Med 1998 Apr, 2:1023-3

[nick912]

Bro for energy take a product like Ready For War by Get Diesel Nutrition. By far the beast energy supplement out. It gives you real energy and it is sustained for a long period.
Also congrats on the dip quitting. It is a very hard habit to break. Im still fighting the battle right now. Its a hard road I know..

[fitnessman]

www.quitsmokeless.org

[jaguarr]

First off, welcome, Mark. This is a great community with a lot of great insight and information to share, as well as some outstanding comraderie.

Second, except for riding around in a police cruiser all day (which is what I'm betting you do), much of what you described sounds very familiar to me. I'm just a little over five months smoke free, now, and I can tell you that the first month or two had me moving a little slow as my system detoxified. That wasn't completely the story for my feeling tired and run down, though, as I then went on to discover that my test and free test counts were low as well. Since I started addressing my low test through diet (upped my Essential Fatty Acid intake which was almost nil and started eating test booster related foods like brocolli, almonds and salmon as well as an EFA Oil supplement), exercise (core compounds are the foundation of my routines with things like squats and deadlifts which are proven to help boost test) and my supplementation (ZMA at night and tribulus every night as well as at lunch every day), my energy levels have been much better and I haven't had some of the depression and other symptoms of low test that I was starting to display. So, I'd say it's BOTH your quitting the tobacco AND your low test that are giving you a double whammy. There's quite a bit of info in this particular forum on addressing low test both naturally and through HRT if you hit the "Search This Forum" function. As for quitting smoking/chewing, it really comes down to you. Either you're ready to do it or you are not. Either you're in control of it or it's in control of you. So, you're going to have to make up your mind when the cravings get really tough and decide who's really driving. Know what I mean? Good luck and let me know if you have any questions about any of the things I've been doing to address my situation since it's fairly similar to yours.

Cheers,
jag

[Exabyte]

Gee wiz, there seems to be a lot of nice people here too. I am new, and just saying hello!