Genetics ,Race and Testosterone levels

[crazylucci]

I notice so many Black men that probably do not workout much at all have friggin cuts out the Yang.. I do not see many White dudes walkin around with cuts, most are just average to no tone at all if they dont lift. BTW half my Fam is Italian the other Half is Black (african american)..Shoot we al mixed up!! Lasagna and Collard greens..LMAO!

Any fellas in here (Black and White) care to compare Testosterone levels (as well as all other levels)??

It would be interesting to examine the difference in levels between those "Gentically gifted" brothers (and whitefolks) and those who have to workout nonstop to see anything.

If you notice all the Major Bodybuilders it seems guys like Ronnie Colemen have a definite advantage (since they all do mad cycles anyway) over White Bodybuilders like Dorian Yates (sorry I dont follow up much on names)...

Even guys like Chuck Diesel who are natural seem to have a much better physique than any white guys I've seen......Chuck can you post your levels??.....

This is an interest to me because I am not trying Juice and if i ever do nothing majorly. It would be nice to find this out because guys like me who have to work harder to look good and eat right religiously would like to work on getting our test levels in the range of those more genetically gifted..

Am I off here?? is there more to it than Hormonal levels? Is it just that certain people or certain Races are predisposed to having more muscle fiber from birth than others?????

I have a solid frame and broad shoulders I just cant seem to cut like alot of my Black friends and Family even though I lift way more, do way more cardio and do way more Ab excercises without overtraining mind you!!

[wrestlinEL]

the main reason alot of blacks are cut up is whether ppl wanna admit ti or not, there lifestyle, ive seen them countlessly, on my way to school id see a group playin basketball at 8 am, and when i got off id see the same group playin on the same court at 4 pm, its the difference between black teens and white teens, while the avg white teen sits on his butt and plays xbox while mommy brings him some cookies n milk, alot of black teens spend there days playin basketball and ridin bikes.
course this is just my .02 cents

and im like a mix of everything man, dont feel bad
lol
1/4 jamaican
1/4 jewish
1/4 italian
1/4 irish
hows that workout for ya, lol , im all screwed up when it comes to the race card :-p

[crazylucci]

the main reason alot of blacks are cut up is whether ppl wanna admit ti or not, there lifestyle, ive seen them countlessly, on my way to school id see a group playin basketball at 8 am, and when i got off id see the same group playin on the same court at 4 pm, its the difference between black teens and white teens, while the avg white teen sits on his butt and plays xbox while mommy brings him some cookies n milk, alot of black teens spend there days playin basketball and ridin bikes.
course this is just my .02 cents

and im like a mix of everything man, dont feel bad
lol
1/4 jamaican
1/4 jewish
1/4 italian
1/4 irish
hows that workout for ya, lol , im all screwed up when it comes to the race card :-p

That is somewhat true..Black folks are way more Athletic...I grew up on Welfare and can say we didnt have much reason to stay inside, because we didnt have Video Games..We couldn't afford them!!....I did however get lucky and had people that took interest in me due to my interest in music..so I did wind up indoors alot...Basketball is definitely one of the most Cardio intense sports out..not too mention inexpensive. I should mention in my teens I rode bikes alot in competition ( Freestylin, BMX)

[docta_cc]

darker skin does show more definition, can you say Mandingo Warrior!

[Da CaVeman]

I think asians are quite growth challenged. Most of my asian friends are at most 5'10" at around 130-150 lbs with very lil if any muscle and have a hell of a time trying to gain weight. A lot of them attempted to hit the gym when I started but didn't see much development. Out of the group, I am the only one that went from that 130 to 215. Those who are very active are pretty cut but what do u expect when ur body fat is near 0 and ur skin and bones

[coofoostu]

It has to do with a lot of things. Like wrestlinEL said, some of it is lifestyle. Also, the darker the skin, the leaner and more musclular a person looks. This is why even the white guys look black on stage nowadays with all their tanning oils etc.

A races' size is based on the environment that it evolved in. If there was an abondance of food the whole time a race was evolving, then they are usually bigger, whereas a race that spent a lot of time farming would be smaller. For example, there are some tribes in the south pacific that lived on secluded islands that have had unlimited suppies of fruit and fish the whole time the tribe had been there. So since they didnt have to expend much energy to get food, they can afford to be big which helps in other things. Whereas a tribe that lives in a land where the food must always be farmed would be smaller because of the amount of energy they must expend obtaining the food. The smaller guys are better adapted for this type of environment because they dont need as much food to survive. This is basically what the Myostatin gene is.

Now I hate stereotypes, but im gonna do one just for the sake of this question. Fried chicken is imo better for building muscle and raising test levels than pasta is. But again one of my friends from highschool who now plays football for stanford is one of the biggest guys ive ever known and his favorite food was spagetti and meatballs (and he is black), so you can never just judge a person like this.

I dont know what you mean by Ronnie having advantages over Dorian, one of the main reasons pros are getting bigger is due to newer drugs. This is why Dorian was bigger than Haney and why Coleman is now bigger than Dorian.

[KD1]

I agree that blacks have better genes for sports ( with the sole exception of perhaps power lifting which seems to be dominated by northern europeans)

Probably due to the fact that mate selection by african females was based more on physical prowess than european womens for at least 4-5 generations.

What I find odd is how blacks dominate boxing, but whites dominate MMA. Maybe that is just a matter of time.

[Slated]

I remember having read a few years ago that african americans often have higher levels of free test than caucasians. I wish I know where I had seen that study. It would make sense though when you think of their typical lifestyle over the past 1000 years verses that of a caucasian.

I could be completely wrong, and don't think it matters at all, but I do agree that many african americans seem to have great 'genetics' towards fitness.

[ferrethouse]

I agree that blacks have better genes for sports ( with the sole exception of perhaps power lifting which seems to be dominated by northern europeans)

Blacks generally aren't strong at swimming. If I'm not mistaken blacks tend to have a naturally lower body fat level and therefore they don't float as well (generally speaking of course).

[ferrethouse]

The guy who wrote this was a prof at my university. He caused a lot of controversy when he released this study. It is interesting...

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_rghrs.html

"Testosterone levels may underlie other behavior traits differentiating the races, for they have been found to be 19% higher in a sample of Black U.S. college students than in their White counterparts (Ross et al., 1986). In an older group of U.S. military veterans, Blacks measured 3% higher in testosterone level than Whites (Ellis & Nyborg, 1992). Another study, of testosterone metabolites, showed a 10% to 15% higher incidence in Black Americans than in White Americans and a still lower incidence in the Japanese in Japan (Hixson, 1992)."

[johnnyironboard]

What I find odd is how blacks dominate boxing

Don't dis hispanics- especially in the lighter weight classes.

[kelmore]

Blacks generally aren't strong at swimming. If I'm not mistaken blacks tend to have a naturally lower body fat level and therefore they don't float as well (generally speaking of course).

Ya, I've noticed this as well. But there has been an up and coming African American sprinter thats pretty damn good.
However, I don't know why this is, but I don't think it is because of body fat. It is unkown at this time what the best bodyfat % really is for swimmers. The positioning of the fat has more to do with the floatation, fat around the buttocks and hips is beneficial for freestyle swimmers, while fat on the stomach and groin area helps backstrokers.

[TNCEKM]

Boxing is largely a 'lower class' sport now. Think 'Gladiator'. Its sad, but good ol' soccer moms don't let their kids box. Instead, they get "taekwondo" or some other BS.

American blacks tend to have higher test levels, yes. But, blacks and whites both have tons of racial variation, especially whites....i.e. Eastern Europeans tend to have higher test levels, so....color isn't the total deciding factor.

Yeah, the cuts are b/c of high activity, darker skin, different fat storage (not much subcutaneous fat), and a few other factors.

[moondg29]

Even if people don't want to say it (I'm not racist, please don't take this badly) but the black race is the physical working race. For thousands of years blacks have been the ones doing the labor. It just keeps getting passed down.

[crazylucci]

The guy who wrote this was a prof at my university. He caused a lot of controversy when he released this study. It is interesting...

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_rghrs.html

"Testosterone levels may underlie other behavior traits differentiating the races, for they have been found to be 19% higher in a sample of Black U.S. college students than in their White counterparts (Ross et al., 1986). In an older group of U.S. military veterans, Blacks measured 3% higher in testosterone level than Whites (Ellis & Nyborg, 1992). Another study, of testosterone metabolites, showed a 10% to 15% higher incidence in Black Americans than in White Americans and a still lower incidence in the Japanese in Japan (Hixson, 1992)."

This is an interesting study.....We know that higher levels of Testosterone affect your Confidence level, Sexual behavior and Aggressivness....Of course most Black folk i know are more cocky and seem more confident and carefree but it would be hard to determine whether this is from Hormones or from the way most grow up (in tough conditions and repressed for so long)...I saw in the Study that Asians (who had the lowest Test) had higher IQ's, were more focused and disciplined, respectful and also less sexually active....Maybe Asians have lower Test levels from consuming a diet that contains so much SOY!!! Over thousands (or more) of Years this can alter genetics quite a bit.

I have also read somewhere that the SUN affects Test levels and absorption of its rays can positively affect Test levels....If this is true, of course Black folks would have higher test levels....

I know for a fact my confidence level has dropped since my test levels have after taking PH's and not PCTing correctly.....I am now and starting to feel better........I am looking to find a "round a bout" Test level that would optimal for increasing muscle mass, sexual prowess and overall well being with minimal side effects......Most guys on Roids jump their Test levels into the 2000 and 3000's then suppress their own they drop down to 150-300 or lower till PCT is complete.......My general Test levels were between 750-850 before PH cycles....I was dick to my wife, too cocky, hotheaded and alwas on the move looking to rule the world..my Free Test was real high as well...but I still seem to retain more fat which may be due to my job and the fact I produce music and work in a studio. I never really took interest in sports other than Karate/Boxing and Stickball (go Brooklyn)

If any of you Genetically gifted folks have Bloodwork please post it....This would be of great benefit to us all and give us some idea of the ranges in Test level we need to shoot for.

[wanaBsedated]

the main reason alot of blacks are cut up is whether ppl wanna admit ti or not, there lifestyle, ive seen them countlessly, on my way to school id see a group playin basketball at 8 am, and when i got off id see the same group playin on the same court at 4 pm, its the difference between black teens and white teens, while the avg white teen sits on his butt and plays xbox while mommy brings him some cookies n milk, alot of black teens spend there days playin basketball and ridin bikes.
course this is just my .02 cents

and im like a mix of everything man, dont feel bad
lol
1/4 jamaican
1/4 jewish
1/4 italian
1/4 irish
hows that workout for ya, lol , im all screwed up when it comes to the race card :-p

NOW that is a family dinner that i wanna go to!

[wanaBsedated]

I think variations on test levels in races are due to diet. Genetics to be lean, alot of other things not related to test can make you cut up.

[stacked13]

black people are definitely better athletes that white people. when wuz the last time ya'll saw a white running back? they seem to dominate the skill positions in football and every position in basketball (even the good white players in the NBA are not american). darker skin helps. even the best hockey player in the world (jerome iginla sp?) is black. although i've met sum white guyz who r really big and cut up...i have definitely met more black guyz built like that. i think people of either race have the ability to do it...but black people may b more predisposed than white people. fat storage in northern europe is a blessing...while fat storage in africa is a burden. these things take MILLIONS of years to develop and were probably evolutionary history by the time people started keeping historical documentation.

[Taffin]

darker skin does show more definition, can you say Mandingo Warrior!

This is a good point that doesn't get brought up enough in an intelligent discussion of this delicate racial stuff. Naturally pale guys slather on tons of tanning lotion before they go onstage for good reason- it shows cuts and hides stretch marks. They often tan to the point where they start out white and end up looking almost black. I don't see why naturally dark skinned people (of any race) wouldn't benefit from this same optical illusion. Also factor in that (in my experience) black guys are usually not covered in body hair, which has a tendency to hide your muscles (I know first hand, I'm Greek and hairy like a mofo).

[TNCEKM]

Even if people don't want to say it (I'm not racist, please don't take this badly) but the black race is the physical working race. For thousands of years blacks have been the ones doing the labor. It just keeps getting passed down.

Not thousands of years....hundreds maybe.

Irish were tormented like hell by English, too. There have been many slave races.

Do you know 'exactly' why blacks were used in the Americas? THEY WERE THE MOST DISEASE RESISTANT -- AFrica is covered in diseases, therefore, the Africans had lots of immunity to many of the tropical diseases and were suited to be slaves on sugar plantations in tropical regions. That and the fact that they were trading each other to us made them perfect. No more, no less.

[Cynical_Simian]

While there have been some interesting, legitimate scientific inquiries into differences in natural athletic ability between people from different regions (Kenyan marathoners are probably the most famous/obvious example), the amateuristic, stereotype-based theorizing that's dominating this thread is closer to the average barroom discussion in the Deep South. Keep up the good work, guys!

[Gavin77]

I think africans just have better genetics all over when it comes to muscle building and fat loss. There has been some suggestion that they have higher then normal test levels. Not sure how true that is.

I trained with an african american for about 9 months and he grew very quickly and was ripped.

[Woden]

Some of the stuff people have been saying in this thread is just ridiculous.

1st off. a huge section of the white population has been doing manual labor for just as long as blacks (not that this even matters). How do you think the white people who settled most of the country got their food? They sure as hell couldn't afford to buy slaves unless they owned a plantation. How about the white people in Europe? Do you think their food just magically appeared?

Second off, the whole concept of "white" and "black" is so arbitrary it automatically makes any sort of debate about it scientifically retarded. A Englishman for instance is probably just as genetically different from a West African as an East African is. Furthermore, almost all white people in America are not 100% white and the same goes for blacks.

[BigJoe15]

You cant really generalise in these terms 'Blacks' and 'Whites' in my opinion. White men from America generally dont look like white men from Denmark and black men from Kenya generally arent built like black males from Jamaca, so on and so fourth. People are all different due to lifestyle, evolution, diet and of course genetic inheritance. I believe there are certain groups who are 'GENERALLY' better at some sports than others. For example kenyans often make good long distance runners for a VERY big variaty of reasons not all genetic (politics plays a big part, research this ;-) ) But then you have long distance runners such as Paula Radcliffe who is a white English woman, that dominates events and beats people of other races on a regular basis. So you have a big variation of people from different envirionments competing and winning.
As for boxing, people jump to conclusions with the whole Blacks Dominate thing. Anyone who follows boxing should know there are many great black boxers who stood out (e.g. Ali) this was often so they could make a greater impact on the sport and overcome rasism etc. There have also been genetic freaks such as Mike Tyson who was black and also stood out (my favorite boxer btw lol) This can make one think that blacks are at an advantage in this sport, this is also enhaced by the fact that many blacks are working class, and boxing has always been a working class sport that can provide a better life. Hence the large amount of black competitors. But if you do your research you will come accross just as many great white athletes who dominated the sport (search for Jack Dempsy [tysons idol]) or watch the next Ricky Hatton or Carl Froche fight. Also many other races are now representing well in boxing e.g. the cubans, asians (see Amir Kharn) etc.
There are sports such as sprinting which have been embraced by black people and swimming which white people do well at. However I have no doubt that we as humans are so diverse that in a few years white guys will win sprints and black guys will win swimming races, strongman etc. Watch an athletic competition and its easy to see that a wide range of races win various events. People often say blacks win this event etc or whites win this event all the time, but they havent been watching various sports, events etc to see that all people of all races are competing and winning.
Back to genetics, people love to claim certain races etc are superior. Hell even Hitler was into the old genetic argument. Its just a fact that we are all human at the end of the day and some of us are athletically gifted, others arent, others have **** lifestyles, others don't, some of use are interested in sports and competing, others cant give a ****. Get my point!
To show what I mean heres a list of exceptional athletes from all races and environments:

Mike Tyson (genetic freak, black, great boxer)

Dorian Yates(genetic freak, white, first guy to step up the freaky mass game in bodybuilding)

Kelly Holmes (mixed race, exceptional runner)

Paula Radcliffe (white, exceptional runner)

Kris Dim (asian, iffb pro)

Chinese Womans weightlifting team (need i say more)

Marius Pudzonowski (sp?) (white, strongman, genetic freak)

Big Ron (black, genetic freak, bodybuilding freak of the moment)

So you see there is alot of variation and this list could go on forever. I dont think all of these athletes are supergenetic, high test, superathletes. They are simply people who work hard and follow a good training plan and generally live a lifestyle that allows them to progress. No substitute for good ol' hard work imo.

BigJoe

[KD1]

black people are definitely better athletes that white people. when wuz the last time ya'll saw a white running back?

About the only white athlete in the NFL with african american type athletic ablity is Matt Jones.

But I agree in general, Jones is the exception that proves the rule.

[thanatopsis]

It takes very little genetic variation to make a huge difference. I recently read that men are more genetically similar to chimps than they are to women ( this link says the same, I originally read it elsewhere http://www.rense.com/general63/galax...ifferences.htm ).

That being said... I've lifted with and been around a ton of black and white athletes. As has been stated on several occasions, the black guys tend to look more cut -- this having to do with the illusion caused by darker skin and, IMHO, because the naturally higher test would lower body fat levels.

All of that having been said already. One interesting thing that I noticed when I watched a season of college basketball... take a look at the deltoids on the white players and the black players. Huge difference there. The black players seem to have larger and more rounded deltoids that come down to a smaller "cut" section between the deltoid and bicep, which makes both muscles look larger. I pointed this out to a few people and it doesn't seem to be just me that sees it. I've seen the same on my athletic black friends as well, and rarely have I seen this type of shape on a white guy. Maybe someone who watches more basketball than me can confirm or deny this. I find this especially interesting since the white and black players should have a fairly similar activity level and intensity, yet a seemingly blanket differerence appears.

[crazylucci]

I think Negros are naturally more musclular because they are less civilized then whites. Whites have gotten soft over the 5-6000 years we have been civilized; whereas Negros are more animalistic due to the fact that a mere 300 years ago the Negro was a wild animal running around bare-assed in the jungle.

This was definitely worded wrong and sounds racist but in all reality: There may be a point to this.

You have a Race that comes from a hot climate firstly, where food is scarce to come by. You will see alot of thin people, and also Africa is a region of the world that is largely undeveloped and poor, so you have the majority of people walking and as it is in Tribal areas folks are still chasing food thru the jungle.

For millions of years people lived this way...The environment forces you to be an athlete just to survive.

Whit cultures are mainly in cooler to cold climates which makes them predisposed to fat storage, because for millions of years like the africans food was scarce to come by especially in the dead of winter so the blubber they have tends to stick around. Also in the bitter cold you have less mobility so people stayed alot closer to home and were not out side as much soaking the sun's ray which are a natural enhancement to your hormonal environment.

Now if you look at alot of Italians for some odd have pretty good genetics compared to irish, english etc. You will see alot of Italians who "cut up" very easy (even though alot are height restricted, LOL) unfortunately I'm not one of them since my Father's father was from Denmark. I have the ability to lose weight quick or gain it quick but for some reason i just cannot get a damn 8 pack (Thank god I'm 6'1" though).

I hope nobody takes this posting to offense it is not intended to be racial etc etc. So please any of you looking to be funny or Racist move on!!

If we could all work to adjust our natural hormonal environment to those predisposed to pack on muscle and burn fat things would be much easier for alot of us.

Science has many great breakthroughs and I dont believe for one minute that one guy is presposed to have Low Test while another is predisposed to have High Test there has to be a way other than roids to re program our endocrine system into prducing the optimal hormanl environment for performance .

Alot of fols say diet but most black folks I know eat like Shhhhit. Fried this, smothered that, everything loaded with sugar, alot of salted pork products quite a bit of Alcohol consumption and still seem to do a few bench presses and build lean mass.

[BigJoe15]

I too have noticed a different form of muscle attachment in alot of black guys compared to whites. The tricep for example, the white guys tri seems to attack further up near the posterior deltoid but the black guys tri seems to attach slightly further down giving a different look to the arm. I think this may be one of the reasons why whites often seem to do well at power events, shotput, strongman, weightlifting and wrestling. Black people seem to be better at other things such as b ball where the tricep is involved in a different way. (this is just a theory of mine)
One side note though, I train with a guy who is of south african desent on a regular basis. He is very ripped, has a good bone stucture and has great genetics for bodybuilding. I too have very good bodybuilding genetics but have higher levels of natural fat but alot more muscle and a good bone structure. I have another training partner who is white with average genetics, he has a bicep/tricep attachment that is very similar to my black training partner. One thing I have noticed is that both my black and white training partner arent naturally strong at explosive powerlifting type movements, whereas I am with different muscle attachments. Both of my training partners grow, gain strength and progress very well but they simply cannot use the weights I use on the power type movements. However there are certain lifts where they can such as curls etc. (we all train together and are all very dedicated) I also train occasionally with another black guy who has a build very similar to mine with dense muscle and higher tricep attachments, despite him being about 4 inches taller than me and having long arms, he can still throw some serious weight about compared to other guys of his height. People are different builds in all races, but there are some differences that are more prominent in certain types of people.

There I go, writing essays again lol.

BigJoe

[chainsaw]

I can't agree with the statement about growing up more athletic could make one be more cut and muscular than another. I began cutting firewood as my family business with my father at age 5, along with my 6 brothers, who also started at around the same age. We worked our asses off everday after school and a full day on saturday's. However I do not nor do any of my brothers have the same cut and muscle fullness as out black counter parts. Even whe I joined the military and began weightlifting, I could still not get the same cut as my black counter part.

Genetics, absoulutely it was definately a strong gene passed through african descent. We have been studying in school about origins of people, and it is a non evolutionist view, back when slavery had begun blacks were breaded just like horses, not to sound rude or anything. Just like breading horses you would pair a strong female horse with a strong male horse. Believe it or not it is a theory that is very strong. Slave owners would pair up the strong with the strong, and the pair their offspring with other strong mates. Now imagine that went on for 500 years and see what it would produce. To me that would explain the muscle fullness and cuts and great muscle response to muscle building exercises the blacks can obtain, even if they are mix the can still carry the dominant gene that can make them that way. I would just say kiss your mamma and thank the lord for good genes.

[crazylucci]

I can't agree with the statement about growing up more athletic could make one be more cut and muscular than another. I began cutting firewood as my family business with my father at age 5, along with my 6 brothers, who also started at around the same age. We worked our asses off everday after school and a full day on saturday's. However I do not nor do any of my brothers have the same cut and muscle fullness as out black counter parts. Even whe I joined the military and began weightlifting, I could still not get the same cut as my black counter part.

Genetics, absoulutely it was definately a strong gene passed through african descent. We have been studying in school about origins of people, and it is a non evolutionist view, back when slavery had begun blacks were breaded just like horses, not to sound rude or anything. Just like breading horses you would pair a strong female horse with a strong male horse. Believe it or not it is a theory that is very strong. Slave owners would pair up the strong with the strong, and the pair their offspring with other strong mates. Now imagine that went on for 500 years and see what it would produce. To me that would explain the muscle fullness and cuts and great muscle response to muscle building exercises the blacks can obtain, even if they are mix the can still carry the dominant gene that can make them that way. I would just say kiss your mamma and thank the lord for good genes.

I agree wiht u 100%. I worked my AZZ off for a long time in construction. lifting heavy boards of sheetrock all day, carrying metal framing studs, up and down scaffolding in NYC. inside, outside hot & cold weather. I always ate right took plenty of supplements. Dont Smoke, Rarely Drink etc etc. Yet guys I know from my "Hood" sat around and drank 40's all day, smoked weed and did NOTHING!! But they are all cut up and I'm not??? WTF....I believe in the breeding you were talking about. One thing that always made me wonder though...even though these people look in shape.....More Blacks suffer from Heart disease, Hypertension, Prostate cancer, Thyroid trouble, kidney Diseases, Among other immune diseaes like HIV and Anemia....Whites seems to have more bouts with Cancer in general......And if Black have higher Test levels maybe that explains why they age better?? But if Whites have higher Test levels than Asians Why do most Whites Age terribly?? I see 35 y/o Women that look like theyre 50.....of my Sicilian genes should keep me young looking for a long time..My mother and father both look young.....with the exception of my dad's gray hair which I seemed to inherit and are populatin my head more rapidly these days...Any cure for that??? LOL......My Grandmother didnt go Gray until she was about 65...and my whole family seems to keep hair so that is good...although if mine goes Gray Imma shave it bald cuz I look 22......