Genetics ,Race and Testosterone levels

[KD1]

On the muscle attachment topic -

I think this has a huge role to plan in athletic ability as does bone structure.

For instance, from what I have read, the top speed of a person ( or any land animal for that matter ) is directly related to the length of the lower leg in proportion to the length of the upper leg. Also, the amount of jump height in relationship to muscle contraction strength is directly related to how high up the calf attaches. For these reasons, black athletes tend to have explosive strait line speed and awsome jumping ability compared to most white athletes without these benefits. Ever notice how most black bodybuilders dont have great calves? Its because their lower legs are longer, and the calf attaches so high up.

Also, from my observational experience, the strongest men in the gym appear to have thick middle body construction ( i.e. torso ), which is not common among blacks, but is among northern european/slavic contries. The result of this tends to be blacks with similar strength need to be ( or are ) more muscular because they dont have that type of bone structure.

Its kinda fun talking about such a taboo subject, nice to be anonymous...

[Dimitar]

It's funny that you now mentioned women. I have seen quite a few girls with "normal" bodies and normal BMI that have calves I will never have even with a lot of work, food, and chemical enhancement. It's not that they have more testosterone than me (I hope), it's their genes most likely.

[Sunder]

Very interesting stuff here. Kinda funny all in reality, by definition, all the above posts can be considered "racist", but only a select few are called that.

I believe everyone should be treated equally, but I also believe that certain races are built differently (it's not just the color of the skin). Most likely, this is to allow them to adapt to their environment.

I would tend to agree that the black population in general seem to be more genetically gifted towards certain athletic events. What does seem interesting though, is most of these events do include running of some type. Sprinting gets more Olympic coverage than aquatic sports, therefore people think of them more often. But I have to admit that I've never seen a black swimmer in an Olympic event, and I have seen a few white sprinters. One theory I heard is because of how high the calf attaches. High calves do well for running and jumping, but not so good for swimming. Black people seem to have higher calves than whites. I have very high calves, and yes, I run and jump quite well, and I suck in the water - I'm also sorta "white", so go figure.

2 observations/comments I found interesting:
someone above said that they felt blacks aged better than whites. Ironically, I definitely find the opposite. It also appears to me that asians age the best.

I also find it interesting that people say blacks were used as slaves because they were so disease resistant. Yet, although I don't have the numbers to back it, it appears than in this modern time, there are more medical complications with the black race than others. Why this is, I don't know. Personally, I think having a higher test level might be the reason (increased prostate and heart problems are test-related things).

I'd say that blacks also appear to be more leaner on average than whites, BUT also appear to be fatter as well. Is it just me, or do they seem to go to the extremes? I'm guessing it's either living conditions, or more likely that just like there are many different "whites", there are many diverse "blacks".

I definetly find this kind of stuff interesting. Regardless of the answers, I am what I am, and I cannot change that (race). So I'll just have to bust my a$$ off no matter what people say.

Peace and love!

[Testosterone97]

Best part about blacks is they dont have to worry about tanning up to get better definition. Hats off to em

[CourtneyD]

It's funny that you now mentioned women. I have seen quite a few girls with "normal" bodies and normal BMI that have calves I will never have even with a lot of work, food, and chemical enhancement. It's not that they have more testosterone than me (I hope), it's their genes most likely.

Two words: high heels (I kid, I kid.. mostly)

[crazylucci]

Again guys please no Racist stuff...there is no need for ignorance here!! moderators are watching....as you see I was lucky enuff to have them move this post.

If any of you genetically gifted (black or white etc etc) would care to post any bloodwork results please do.

Test
Free Test
Estradiol
Corstisol
Prolactin
IGF-1

All of these levels will do and will definitely help those of us looking to optimize our systems for better gains thru natural or chemical enhancement!

[C Hall]

It's no secret that, in the 1800s, the best-built black guys were sought after by the white plantation owners.

At slave auctions, the male slaves from Africa with the considerable height, huge arms, wide backs and strong legs were very expensive. A well-built male slave probably established an "enviable" status in the slave quarters. And that status provided him with lots of female slaves to have sex with. He impregnated women.

On the other hand, the rich white guys, no matter how bad their bodies were, had sex with women, too.

Does this make sense?

[wanaBsedated]

black people are definitely better athletes that white people. when wuz the last time ya'll saw a white running back? they seem to dominate the skill positions in football and every position in basketball (even the good white players in the NBA are not american). darker skin helps. even the best hockey player in the world (jerome iginla sp?) is black. although i've met sum white guyz who r really big and cut up...i have definitely met more black guyz built like that. i think people of either race have the ability to do it...but black people may b more predisposed than white people. fat storage in northern europe is a blessing...while fat storage in africa is a burden. these things take MILLIONS of years to develop and were probably evolutionary history by the time people started keeping historical documentation.

i think black people are more driven to succeed in certain sports due to an american culteral difference...White european athletes are insane and highly skilled, poverty and upbringing are great motivators. There are alot of white champions in sports today especially in sports that require extreme conditioning...UFC-MMA, triathletes etc. There are alot more black people who play certain sports to an obsessive level..like basketball, football. Even in events like marathons where kenyans have a usual edge..there have been white runners who have had victory. I dont think the edge that black people may or may not have is always physical..i think its drive from a culteral difference oftentimes.

Jason.

[THUNDERGOD]

If you ever watch 'the Worlds strogest man' compititions on ESPN 2 you will see that the strongest men are generally Scandenavian and Northern European.... Those guys are seriously STRONG.....True they aren't cut like the black guys are (generally speaking), but strong, yes most definately.

[Gizmosbro2]

white old women age bad becuase they ****ing lay in the sun all day man... and they try to look 20 when they are 50....and plastic surgery and such

[KD1]

white old women age bad becuase they ****ing lay in the sun all day man... and they try to look 20 when they are 50....and plastic surgery and such

Yup, I dated a tan bed junky once, was 25 years old and nobody would believe she was a day younger than 30 unless she showed them her drivers liscense. Was kinda sad actually. I wonder what she looks like now, that was 10 years ago. She is probably all botoxed up, lookin like a manaquin.

But I must say, there is something about British women that makes them age particuarly bad, even compared to other white europeans.

[crazylucci]

It's no secret that, in the 1800s, the best-built black guys were sought after by the white plantation owners.

At slave auctions, the male slaves from Africa with the considerable height, huge arms, wide backs and strong legs were very expensive. A well-built male slave probably established an "enviable" status in the slave quarters. And that status provided him with lots of female slaves to have sex with. He impregnated women.

On the other hand, the rich white guys, no matter how bad their bodies were, had sex with women, too.

Does this make sense?

it makes alot of sense...so of course there are so many diversities in "African Americans"....So many shades of color, so many body types etc etc....It is however usually the darker folks that seem to have better genes...probably because they have less white in them..LOL.....

I think Whites had it way too easy for too long and not much reason to lift a finger....

Test levels go up as activity does, because with more activity (lifting, alot of walking, running, hardlabor etc) more muscle is being built.

Of course most African Americans ate High Fat diets and alot of vegetables like Yams, Collards etc etc...In Africa it is not much different more fruits, nuts, berries, some animal when they can catch one..lol

Whites have been gorging on Baked goods like cakes, pastries and all the extras life can afford for a looong time....this will over time change gene patterns in future offspring.....The body likes to "TRY" to adjust itself to what you're taking in Food, Beverage etc etc....

I read a book called Natural Hormonal Enhancement by Rob Faigin. I base my eating and life around this book now.

I have also been trimming down my supplements to simple things in their purest form (with the exception of a few)

Another thing I have read somewhere is that taking Anabolic steroids, especially those not too harsh on the HPTA can increase cell receptor sites, muscle fiber etc etc....I know most things in moderation are usually beneficial... I wonder if maybe taking small amounts of things like oxandralone(anavar) let's say 10-20mg per day for 2 weeks or a month even at most...cycled 3-4 times per year and done with proper PCT could assist in eventually pushing us towards lean mass slowly more gradually. and using supps like Clomid in small amounts every other month to boost natural test (skip that ATD crap)

Most folks seem to go haywire and cycle like 3 different roids together for 8-12 weeks blow up get huge and suffer permanent damage years later....sounds no better than any Drunk or Druggie right? overindulge till you Croak!!

[IllumX]

About the only white athlete in the NFL with african american type athletic ablity is Matt Jones.

But I agree in general, Jones is the exception that proves the rule.

u don't know much football then......archuleta..just ot name one..ran a 4.3 at the combine....40 inch vertical....500lb bench press..so please...

[KD1]

u don't know much football then......archuleta..just ot name one..ran a 4.3 at the combine....40 inch vertical....500lb bench press..so please...

4.37, 39 inch V to be exact.

Ok yeah so him too, lol.

[teewoods]

There are sports such as sprinting which have been embraced by black people and swimming which white people do well at. However I have no doubt that we as humans are so diverse that in a few years white guys will win sprints and black guys will win swimming races, strongman etc.

I don't see whites ever being on par with blacks in sprinting. Just like I can’t see blacks be as good swimmers as whites.

Blacks have more fast twitched muscles hence would always be faster also look at the calf muscles of blacks, sort of shoots up... kinda like a gazelle and it has very very very low bf at the calf’s. I believe this gives them leverage to sprint and jump. Same thing applies to their long distance runners.

Whites have a lower bone density than blacks and would therefore continue to dominate swimming forever. Blacks would never get anywhere close.

Chinese have the best reflexes and would continue to dominate table tennis, badminton, squash and martial arts.

Don’t ask me why but surely just like African elephants being pretty much the same as Asian elephants except for their strength and bigger ears. All races have unique advantages over others.

If you doubt this keep waiting for the next 200 yrs (hope you live that long lol!) and you'd see the same races winning the same events.

[IllumX]

4.37, 39 inch V to be exact.

Ok yeah so him too, lol.

there are others but they just ride the bench because they don't have the necessary skills..

the rookie on the jags..from hawaii...he has that 4.3-4.4 speed and i'm pretty sure he as a minimum of 35inch vertical

[sabonis224]

To be honest, I don't think I've seen a single "big" black guy in a very long time in my daily life. But I definitely notice some pretty strong looking white guys. Not sure if it is work ethic, genetics, whatever. It's like every black guy I see around my age group, is either skinny as hell, or overweight. I know plenty of white people who have some good muscle on them and look pretty big.

[moondg29]

Not thousands of years....hundreds maybe.

Irish were tormented like hell by English, too. There have been many slave races.

Do you know 'exactly' why blacks were used in the Americas? THEY WERE THE MOST DISEASE RESISTANT -- AFrica is covered in diseases, therefore, the Africans had lots of immunity to many of the tropical diseases and were suited to be slaves on sugar plantations in tropical regions. That and the fact that they were trading each other to us made them perfect. No more, no less.

Umm... Black Slaves in egypt. Try studying history.

[teewoods]

....And if Black have higher Test levels maybe that explains why they age better?? But if Whites have higher Test levels than Asians Why do most Whites Age terribly?? I see 35 y/o Women that look like theyre 50.....of my Sicilian genes should keep me young looking for a long time..My mother and father both look young.....with the exception of my dad's gray hair which I seemed to inherit and are populatin my head more rapidly these days...Any cure for that??? LOL......My Grandmother didnt go Gray until she was about 65...and my whole family seems to keep hair so that is good...although if mine goes Gray Imma shave it bald cuz I look 22......

We age worse because our skin has by far the least amount of melanin. Asians have more than by the way. Italians have more than say Anglo-saxons. It's a one advanatge blacks have in the aging dept cos it makes them look younger. The test levels might be a factor but i dont consider it that signingficant. Alhtough i do admit seeing one nigeria 60+ women with triceps bigger than many here. I found out she did a fair bit of hardcore farming oh and she sure did not take whey lol!

[Clive Jones]

good thread...ive thought about this alot..

i def. believe their genetics are superb..

i know many of them who have never lifted before..eat whatever they want...fried chicken and fruit punch (no pun intended)..they really do...

and they have cuts and are very toned and have muscle..im talking well developed backs and abs and chest...

its nuts...

[Woden]

Reading this thread has made my head hurt. I'm not even going to get into the fallacies of the concept of a 'white' and 'black' race in this post.

First off, you guys need to understand that the fact that you know four or five black guys who are naturally lean and muscular is completely irrelevant. I know many white guys who are like this, and that does not mean anything either. That is not scientific or statistical data and is meaningless.

Second off, it's time for a ****ing history lesson.

We'll start with the slave trade.

"
It's no secret that, in the 1800s, the best-built black guys were sought after by the white plantation owners.

At slave auctions, the male slaves from Africa with the considerable height, huge arms, wide backs and strong legs were very expensive. A well-built male slave probably established an "enviable" status in the slave quarters. And that status provided him with lots of female slaves to have sex with. He impregnated women.
"

90% of the slave trade did not take place on an individual basis. Slaves were either bought or captured in Africa and packed onto a ship as tightly as possible. When they reached the West Indies, the ones who were still alive were divided into lots and sold. There was no individual bidding for most slaves, they were sold with a large group of their peers (usually the slavemasters would split up the tribes so they couldn't communicate and resist). It's not like some slaves were rejected because they were too weak, they were worked until the day they died anyway.

Second off, if you truly think that the slaves sexual relations were controlled by the slavemaster then you need to wake up to some of the basic realities of human nature. Any slaves that did get preferential treatment (and treatment of slaves varied highly) were usually informants for the foreman. Sexual selection would be no different than if the slaves were free.

"I think Whites had it way too easy for too long and not much reason to lift a finger.."

This is just plain ignorant. You need to pick up a history book, now. Let me give you a hint, the frontiersmen and settlers that first came to this country didn't survive by sitting around on their asses all day long. The white farmers and day laborers who powered much of it's economy for many of it's early years didn't do it by slacking off and "not lifting a finger" either. Neither did the white indentured servants who for all intents and purposes were slaves and were forced to work their 'owner"'s land for years in order to be free. Or the countless generations of European immigrants that came over here and worked in deadly conditions for **** of pay.

"Whites have been gorging on Baked goods like cakes, pastries and all the extras life can afford for a looong time....this will over time change gene patterns in future offspring.....The body likes to "TRY" to adjust itself to what you're taking in Food, Beverage etc etc...."

#1, this is not true, as the diet of much of the white population in the colonies would have been almost the same as that of the slaves. #2, please pick up a biology book also as you are expressig extremely misguided Lamarkian ideals that aren't even close to being accurate.

As for the issue at hand, I have seen many studies suggesting that Blacks have a higher tesosterone level than whites, but not yet one that is even close to being decisive or reliable. Show me a study with a sample size of at least 1000, testing for both serum and free Testosterone that controls for diet, exercise, adipose tissue (and abdominal adipose tissue), drug and alcohol use, last sexual encounter, sleep patterns, age and underlying medical conditions and you'll be on the right track. (the study should also take all blood samples at exactly the same time of day)

After reading through this thread, I've come to the conclusion that many of the guys in here are simply trying to justify their racist beliefs (and beliefs are simply what they are) about the black race. I've seen this done from both angles, the bitter or arrogant black dude and the racist white guy trying to prove that blacks are somehow 'less evolved'. (although I haven't seen any of the latter in this thread yet) I think some white guys join in simply to feel like a part of black culture, or that they are 'cool' and PC. I can't really draw any other conclusions when faced with some of the comments in the thread.

BTW, for anyone who still thinks that blacks are somehow genetically more muscular, how do you explain the complete domination of all strength sports by white athletes?

[Clive Jones]

good post!

but i still dont believe it ! haha jk

i know more than 5 ppl ...

not to mention the countless others..

im talking ive seen kids that are maybe 12-15 yrs old...muscular and ripped...
i doubt they are lifting that young

god damit! a study must be done

[Maestro]

I was in my college library and I was looking at some of the older circulation of physics and biology books and read up on genetic traits and whatnot.

This book says that African Americans tend to excel at sports and seem to be most atheletic because of the "man-made" natural selection during the slavery era. the weaker africans died off because noone would take them in (buy them) and the stronger ones would be able to reproduce carrying along all of the best genes.

Also with swimming, most of the best swimmers are caucasian and have longer torsos which makes them stay afloat and more agile in the water whereas Africans seems to have longer legs and shorter torsos, which serves virtually no advantage when it comes to swimming.

I believe this because i'm black and I suck at swimming and I feel really clumsy in the water.




and BTW where do you thnk Mexicans would fit in this, when it comes to atheleticism and sport advantages?

[RobDude]

This is an interesting thread....

Statistically, in the US black men (and women) are actually more likely to be obese and/or overweight than white men and women. But, in general, people (at least people I grew up with) tend to think of black guys as being more in shape.

I don't know if maybe it's that there is a large disparity between the 'atheletic' blacks and the 'out of shape' blacks - so that the 'average' black guy would be more likely to be overweight, but there'd also be more in shape black guys, per capita, than whites.

Really though, I'd guess it's a combination of 1.) Dark skin looks more tone (you don't see many pale BB'ers on stage) and 2.) Society has a lot of generally held truths that are actually completely untrue. I've heard, countless times, than black men have larger penises than white men - and yet not one of the studies I've seen on it supports that idea. It's just an urban legend.

[Maestro]

This is an interesting thread....

Statistically, in the US black men (and women) are actually more likely to be obese and/or overweight than white men and women. But, in general, people (at least people I grew up with) tend to think of black guys as being more in shape.

I don't know if maybe it's that there is a large disparity between the 'atheletic' blacks and the 'out of shape' blacks - so that the 'average' black guy would be more likely to be overweight, but there'd also be more in shape black guys, per capita, than whites.

Really though, I'd guess it's a combination of 1.) Dark skin looks more tone (you don't see many pale BB'ers on stage) and 2.) Society has a lot of generally held truths that are actually completely untrue. I've heard, countless times, than black men have larger penises than white men - and yet not one of the studies I've seen on it supports that idea. It's just an urban legend.

yeah I know what you mean. there is no proof to back up that claim either (penis size)

its like saying one race tends to have bigger...oh I don't know....EARS than another.

[Ruthless4Life]

It's funny that you now mentioned women. I have seen quite a few girls with "normal" bodies and normal BMI that have calves I will never have even with a lot of work, food, and chemical enhancement. It's not that they have more testosterone than me (I hope), it's their genes most likely.

More *estrogen.

And fat.

Basically fat people have huge calves (measurments, not necessarily muscle size) as well. And it's normal for women to have around 15-20% bodyfat.

[Woden]

good post!

but i still dont believe it ! haha jk

i know more than 5 ppl ...

not to mention the countless others..

im talking ive seen kids that are maybe 12-15 yrs old...muscular and ripped...
i doubt they are lifting that young

god damit! a study must be done

I know lots of kids who lift that young.

[Mr Beer]

Even if people don't want to say it (I'm not racist, please don't take this badly) but the black race is the physical working race. For thousands of years blacks have been the ones doing the labor. It just keeps getting passed down.

You may not be racist, but you are an idiot. You think the majority of white people over the last several thousand years didn't do physical labour?

[Ruthless4Life]

You may not be racist, but you are an idiot. You think the majority of white people over the last several thousand years didn't do physical labour?

Not to mention many Asians have been peasants--farmers and laborers over the past few thousand years. Pretty physical work to be a peasant.

[teewoods]

How long would it take before we get the inane posts which go along the lines of .. "my race is better than yours"

Black / white/ black/ white/...bla...whi.... Shame we only have 2 races on planet America. Guys never mind about Billy Joe's and LeShaun genes, worry improving yours.