Can you still gain size without strength?

[DarkFalcon]

What does everyone think, based on experience can you continue to put on quality size and not continue strength gains?

[Kord]

If you put on muscle size, you will increase strength. You cannot increase the size of your muscle cells with out becoming stronger.

Now you can on the other hand make a muscle group look bigger by causing an abcess or by injecting it with an oil that will cause swelling due to iratation, but it will not look very good.

[TrulyHuge.com]

I don't think it possible to gain size and get no stronger, but there are ways to train that add more size that do not as much increase your strength, and there are ways to train for more strenght without much of and increase in size.

Best,

Paul

[AnthonyGoldsGym]

Size increase comes from the breakdown/repair/adaptation of muscle to more challenging workloads (i.e.poundages.)

Your strength is what enables you to increase the poundages, so yes, quality muscle and strength increases are relative.

[Kurl2Fate]

WRONG!!! Get educated....

You CAN increase size without increasing strength...

Size and strength do have a little in common, but thats it, just a LITTLE...

[AnthonyGoldsGym]

Originally posted by Kurl2Fate
WRONG!!! Get educated....

You CAN increase size without increasing strength...

Size and strength do have a little in common, but thats it, just a LITTLE...

Ah, yes. Frequently do I see those with 10" arms curling 90lb. dumbbells in the gym. Just disheartening to see some of their counterparts with twice that arm size struggling with 30 pounds.

Maybe if you're talking high-rep schemes to "grow", yes, but any kind of growth is an adaptation and larger muscle mass will increase one's strength.

P.S. Quite educated, actually, and my pics speak for themselves.

[EliasLB1030@msn]

actually people don't have to have major mass to be really strong, alot of people i've seen at school when i used to go had wight training classes and had no mass, but were strong as ****

[DarkFalcon]

What about this scenario, say for example you have been lifting for years and you hit a major barbell bench press plateau. So you switch to dumb's to change things up and it seems like growth resumes but when you back to barbell your strength hasn't changed? Does that mean there was no new growth because you didn't break through the plateau? I mean we all reach a point where you just can't lift anymore weight so it would seem depressing to think your growth is over once this happens.

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

Originally posted by AnthonyGoldsGym


Ah, yes. Frequently do I see those with 10" arms curling 90lb. dumbbells in the gym. Just disheartening to see some of their counterparts with twice that arm size struggling with 30 pounds.

Maybe if you're talking high-rep schemes to "grow", yes, but any kind of growth is an adaptation and larger muscle mass will increase one's strength.

P.S. Quite educated, actually, and my pics speak for themselves.

bump, my pics speak for strengh as well

[bigpun]

A lot of powerlifters muscles are not big at all but there
able to lift huge weights. I bought a tape with nasser El
Sonbaty and he wasn't as strong as I am. He was strugling
with 225 on incline bench presses. I have seen guys with
14 inch arms benching over 300 for reps. So yes I think
you can build size without getting stronger. But Ronnie
Coleman Is strong as an ox.

[Ice Man]

The question is not can you be strong and small but can you gain size without strength. The answer is no you can not unless most of your size comes from fat. It may not be proportionate but anytime you have an increase in muscle mass you will have an increase in strength.

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

hey ice long time no see how are ya?

[Ice Man]

Hey Bro...

I been busy as all hell! I got a break in my day so I figured I'd log on....How's everything with u?

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

Originally posted by Ice Man
Hey Bro...

I been busy as all hell! I got a break in my day so I figured I'd log on....How's everything with u?

everything is great,training is great as well.

[Big bad Rob]

Actually, I think you can get bgger without getting stronger. From what iv read I gather that by pumping blood into the muscles on a regular basis the cappilaries (blood vessels) in the muscles get larger in order to be able to carry more blood. This is one of the reasons why bodybuilding type training with higher reps and more sets makes the muscles larger than power lifting type rountines. Because the additional size comes from increased blood vessels rather than thicker muscle fibers the person will not be stronger. However the cappillaries can only be expanded so much so whether this will equate to noticeable and continual size gains is another matter!

p.s. Why would you want to gain size without strenght when its easier to gain both?

[Kurl2Fate]

Thats funny Anthony...Ive seen 160lb non-impressive guys benching over 300lbs..
Ive seen 200+lb muscular guys that couldnt even bench 300...

Im not saying thier isnt a corralation, im just saying thiers ways around it, and its a small correlation...

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

well ive noticed with me the stronger i get the bigger i get,if im not getting stronger im not getting bigger.one of the basic rules for me in my bulking season is getting stronger first, then comes along muscle mass.

[AnthonyGoldsGym]

Originally posted by DarkFalcon
I mean we all reach a point where you just can't lift anymore weight so it would seem depressing to think your growth is over once this happens.

Yes, and per your post, we correspondingly all reach a point where we don't grow anymore either, at least as far as genetics will allow, without the assistance of legal and not-so-legal anabolics.

And consistent posts by those who went on such cycles say they gained x amount of pounds (albeit a portion was fat) AND broke through lifting plateaus. I mean, c'mon...how can anyone propose that someone who has put on, say, 20-30 pounds of lean muscle didn't get any stronger? One of the basic tenets of BB'ing (that has been pushed in countless articles) is that you should try to increase poundages...even if only by a couple of pounds..in every subsequent workout for a bodypart. The purpose for this is to GROW. And as long as your genetics still have the room and you're training/recuperating intelligently, increasing the weight should be able to be accomplished. And it is accomplished because you are stronger.

Plateaus? Sure, we all get them and there are reasons behind them too. Could be anything from an overtrained state to stress to a negative change in one's diet or sleep. And if you've been training for x amount of years and have reached your genetic limit, you still have options, but that's another debate.

Again, muscles grow because they react to progressively heavier workloads/more intense workouts. And you can only subject them to heavier workloads because you have the increased strength to lift heavier amounts of weight.

[AnthonyGoldsGym]

Originally posted by Kurl2Fate
Thats funny Anthony...Ive seen 160lb non-impressive guys benching over 300lbs..
Ive seen 200+lb muscular guys that couldnt even bench 300...

I've also seen mass monsters on a busy gym day bitch about not having enough 45's to throw on their barbells and 140 pound types struggling through a bench press that isn't even near their bodyweight.

In your above case I see some 200lb. muscular guys that (besides the absence of info regarding height, BF levels, etc. compared to the 160) are more likely hitting their slow-twitch fibers alot more than their fast-twitch - i.e. not training wisely. They are a dime a dozen in my gym - see them doing alot more high-rep/mediocre poundage training for vanity pumps than balls/wall with progressively heavier weight instead of responsibly balancing the two.

And there is no "small" correlation between size and strength. There is either a correlation or there isn't. That's like calling a woman who had sex and is now pregnant "a little pregnant" or someone in a grave "a little dead." If a size/strength correlation is that insignificant, then go train for a week with a Ronnie Coleman or a Jay Cutler or a Markus Ruhl and get a note from them saying you were able to keep up with them pound for pound, set for set, rep for rep, then scan'er and put'er up here on the boards. Since size and strength apparently are not relative, shouldn't be a problem.

Competitors in both tested and untested competitions did not earn their rights to the stage by using the same amount of weight workout after workout.

[MakeABanana]

Yes, you can. I have a friend who can front squat 400 lbs yet doesn't really look like he lifts.

[MaxN]

You can have size without strength and vice-versa but the two sort of work together.

When you are stronger you can lift more weight for more reps, which increases the load on the muscle and will result in more hypertrophy.

You won't get huge quads squatting 135 for 10 reps, but you would from squatting 315 for 10.

[Sworn_Enemy]

You can have size without strength and vice-versa but the two sort of work together.

When you are stronger you can lift more weight for more reps, which increases the load on the muscle and will result in more hypertrophy.

hopefully in the 8 years since op has posted he has learned this info by now.


just sayin

[NeverLifted]

Yes, you can. I have a friend who can front squat 400 lbs yet doesn't really look like he lifts.

last post : 09-10-2002, 06:26 AM

[ronpaul3046]

I don't think it possible to gain size and get no stronger, but there are ways to train that add more size that do not as much increase your strength, and there are ways to train for more strenght without much of and increase in size.

Best,

Paul

Username: trulyhuge.com
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 13

[ronpaul3046]

wait...wtf....this thread is from 2002. why did you bump this???

[gpg_prodigy]

A lot of powerlifters muscles are not big at all but there
able to lift huge weights. I bought a tape with nasser El
Sonbaty and he wasn't as strong as I am. He was strugling
with 225 on incline bench presses. I have seen guys with
14 inch arms benching over 300 for reps. So yes I think
you can build size without getting stronger. But Ronnie
Coleman Is strong as an ox.

A lot of powerlifters muscles are not big at all but there
able to lift huge weights. I bought a tape with nasser El
Sonbaty and he wasn't as strong as I am. He was strugling
with 225 on incline bench presses. I have seen guys with
14 inch arms benching over 300 for reps. So yes I think
you can build size without getting stronger. But Ronnie
Coleman Is strong as an ox.

[tential]

strong thread res

[LtrzFrnk]

nice bump

You can increase size without gaining strength (isometric contractions) . If you only use a muscle in its extended position your muscle will adapt to it and grow longer. The thickness of a muscle determines the strength, not the length. But, if you contract a longer muscle they need more room for it to contract and therefor your muscles will look optical bigger, but are not defined stronger.

But longer muscles can contract faster then short muscles, what will result in a stronger muscle. So with dynamic contractions you can't get bigger without gaining strength. You can gain size while keeping isometric and eccentric strength.

[Brahsthetics]

[Tye15]

strong 9 year bump