Milk, some of the fatcs

[Kouta]

Of late there have been alot of animal rights groups pushing alot of untruths about milk and it seems to come up on this site a bit. I just want to get a few things staight about Milk so people can make up their minds and not get brainwashed by some of these extremist groups that have been just plain telling lies.

I work on a dairy farm in Australia so i know how it is produced and what goes on and i will explain some of the main arguments that are pushed by some groups.

1.
There are antibiotics in milk.
This is not ture at all. Any time that a cow is given antibiotics the milk has to be discarded for a ceartian period before it can be sold. There are large penalties if a farmer is found to have antibiotics in the milk and the factories will even ban the farmer from supplying them milk for a certian amount of time.

2. Milk is full of bacteria
Milk is allowed to have a certian amount of bacteria in it. But when sold from farms it is very rarley anywere near the upper limit. Factorys grade the milk and the lower the amount of bacteria the more you get payed so most farmers have very low bacteria counts. Many people say but there is still bacteria in it , well bloody everything has bacteria on it.

3. Cows milk is for baby calves.
Yes but why does that mean it is bad for us. Do these smelly hippies think that soy milk was somehow specially designed for us. Do they realsise your fruits and grains ect are the reproductive organs of the plant, nowhere are they specially designed for humans.

4.Cows are always sick and stressed.
I can tell you for sure this is a lie, if you have sick and stressed cows they dont give much milk and if they are not giving much milk the famer does not make any money. So any farmer that has sick and stressed cows is going out of business quickly.

5. milking machines hurt cows.
well dont ask me how these animal rights groups know this, can they talk to cows. But i can tell you on our farm the cows fight to get on the dairy, so that does not sound like they are being hurt and tortured like some people would have you believe.

They are the main ones that i can think of at the moment. Also i have read a few great posts by Alan Argon about the nutritional benifits of milk for bodybuilding. So just dont believe everything you read by these animal rights groups, if they had their way we would all be running around naked eating only grass and thats not a good diet for bodybuilding.

hope ive cleared a few things up.

[DelToro]

"5. milking machines hurt cows.
well dont ask me how these animal rights groups know this, can they talk to cows. But i can tell you on our farm the cows fight to get on the dairy, so that does not sound like they are being hurt and tortured like some people would have you believe."

those nynphomaniac cows bwhahahha

but yeha I agree with you, animal rights activists are only hurting themselfs by saying you shouldn't drink milk or eat eggs

I'm all for anti fur and anti animal cruelty but when you say that cows get sore titties because of the milk machine you are a lil numb in the head

[Baneo]

Couldn't give a flying **** if it hurts the cow or not. It hurt's me to pay for drunken thugs ****ing around on a friday/saturday night.

[Kouta]

another one that i have seen on these boards in the last couple of days is that cows are given growth hormone and steriods so they produce more milk and this gets into the milk.

Well i know it does not happen on our farm and pretty sure it is not allowed in Australia anyway. even if it was avaliable i think it would be to expensive to be worthwhile.

They may very occationally be given them if sick but again there are strict witholding periods so the drugs do not get into the milk.

anyway i will check this one out further to see the actuall use of steriods in dary cows.

[WillieInc]

then of course there is the myth that it also causes cancer.........and lol @ the calves comments- you can add that maybe then we should all still be drinking our mother's milk if we were to drink it.

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by WillieInc

then of course there is the myth that it also causes cancer.........and lol @ the calves comments- you can add that maybe then we should all still be drinking our mother's milk if we were to drink it.

lol yeah. If you listen to the greenies you would think that we should be using the stuff to make bombs its that dangerous.

[TinyMan]

I originally posted this into a thread about calcium overdosing, but I think it's also pertinent to this thread, so I added my original post. Basically, it's about the effects of calcium from dairy contributing to the formation of kidney stones.




Most kidney stone formation is calcium based (85%), which is caused from: excess calcium in the urine, low citrate levels, high oxalate/uric acid, and low fluid volume are contributing factors to the formation of kidney stones. This is kind of a basic introduction to the formation of most kidney stones, however the information of excess calcium is interesting, assuming that if your body begins to excrete excess calcium through urine. (1)

Interestingly, to your question about the decreasing amounts of dairy, I also found two sources that states a study of approximately 92,000 women where none of them entered with kidney stones, and were tracked throughout. The conclusions listed were that supplemented calcium could increase the risk of developing kidney stones, while consuming dairy products lowered the risk of developing kidney stones. (2)

Oxalate is chemically C2O4 (2-) which will bond with Ca (2+) to form CaC2O4, a compound that like most calcium compounds, is insoluble. The reason that this is thought to happen is because the calcium from food will bind with oxalate that is present in the body, and the resulting formation cannot be absorbed (and therefore will not pass through the urinary tract). (3)

From this, I would think that you would want to keep up the levels of dairy in your diet (in terms of the risk of developing kidney stones). I'm not sure if whey protein would increase the risk of developing kidney stones, I believe it would depend on the levels of oxalate (in supplements such as calcium pills, the calcium does not bind to oxalate, and therefore can pass into the urinary tract).



Tinyman



Source list

(1) http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml

(2) http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/new/kidstone.htm

(3) http://www.medicinenet.com/script/m...articlekey=1887

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by TinyMan

I originally posted this into a thread about calcium overdosing, but I think it's also pertinent to this thread, so I added my original post. Basically, it's about the effects of calcium from dairy contributing to the formation of kidney stones.




Most kidney stone formation is calcium based (85%), which is caused from: excess calcium in the urine, low citrate levels, high oxalate/uric acid, and low fluid volume are contributing factors to the formation of kidney stones. This is kind of a basic introduction to the formation of most kidney stones, however the information of excess calcium is interesting, assuming that if your body begins to excrete excess calcium through urine. (1)

Interestingly, to your question about the decreasing amounts of dairy, I also found two sources that states a study of approximately 92,000 women where none of them entered with kidney stones, and were tracked throughout. The conclusions listed were that supplemented calcium could increase the risk of developing kidney stones, while consuming dairy products lowered the risk of developing kidney stones. (2)

Oxalate is chemically C2O4 (2-) which will bond with Ca (2+) to form CaC2O4, a compound that like most calcium compounds, is insoluble. The reason that this is thought to happen is because the calcium from food will bind with oxalate that is present in the body, and the resulting formation cannot be absorbed (and therefore will not pass through the urinary tract). (3)

From this, I would think that you would want to keep up the levels of dairy in your diet (in terms of the risk of developing kidney stones). I'm not sure if whey protein would increase the risk of developing kidney stones, I believe it would depend on the levels of oxalate (in supplements such as calcium pills, the calcium does not bind to oxalate, and therefore can pass into the urinary tract).



Tinyman



Source list

(1) http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml

(2) http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/new/kidstone.htm

(3) http://www.medicinenet.com/script/m...articlekey=1887

Thanks for that.

[mommy*2*3]

Originally Posted by Kouta

1.
There are antibiotics in milk.
This is not ture at all. Any time that a cow is given antibiotics the milk has to be discarded for a ceartian period before it can be sold. There are large penalties if a farmer is found to have antibiotics in the milk and the factories will even ban the farmer from supplying them milk for a certian amount of time.

2. Milk is full of bacteria
Milk is allowed to have a certian amount of bacteria in it. But when sold from farms it is very rarley anywere near the upper limit. Factorys grade the milk and the lower the amount of bacteria the more you get payed so most farmers have very low bacteria counts. Many people say but there is still bacteria in it , well bloody everything has bacteria on it.

3. Cows milk is for baby calves.
Yes but why does that mean it is bad for us. Do these smelly hippies think that soy milk was somehow specially designed for us. Do they realsise your fruits and grains ect are the reproductive organs of the plant, nowhere are they specially designed for humans.

I don't think you've cleared up anything. Maybe things are different in Australia but I've watched videos and have done a lot of reading on what's in our milk here in the U.S. Milk is full of hormones and if you think that it doesn't get into the milk then you are highly misled. Everything the cow eats, drinks and is given is passed on into the milk. This is a physiological process that cannot be avoided. Why do you think that women who are breastfeeding are restricted from taking all kinds of hormones, meds, even some foods.? Becasue it gets passed on to the milk and then the baby. Cow s are no different. It's a fact that our children are reaching puberty at an earlier age due to all the hormones that are added to milk and other products. Soy milk is crap too.
I do buy dairy products but I make sure it's organic without any hormones added.

Yes, cows milk is technically for calves but we as humans can get away with drinking it. Milk products cause our saliva and other bodily fluids to become think, almost sludge-like slowing our cellular activities. There has been research done in Asian countries where women do not drink any dairy products and end up with no osteoperosis. They get their calcium from plants and vegetables. This type of calcium is absorbed and utilized by our body much easier.

Milk is highly over-rated and not necessary for adults at all. It is due to our poor diets that we are becoming more dependent on milk for calcium supplementation.

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

I don't think you've cleared up anything. Maybe things are different in Australia but I've watched videos and have done a lot of reading on what's in our milk here in the U.S. Milk is full of hormones and if you think that it doesn't get into the milk then you are highly misled. Everything the cow eats, drinks and is given is passed on into the milk. This is a physiological process that cannot be avoided. Why do you think that women who are breastfeeding are restricted from taking all kinds of hormones, meds, even some foods.? Becasue it gets passed on to the milk and then the baby. Cow s are no different. It's a fact that our children are reaching puberty at an earlier age due to all the hormones that are added to milk and other products. Soy milk is crap too.
I do buy dairy products but I make sure it's organic without any hormones added.

Yes, cows milk is technically for calves but we as humans can get away with drinking it. Milk products cause our saliva and other bodily fluids to become think, almost sludge-like slowing our cellular activities. There has been research done in Asian countries where women do not drink any dairy products and end up with no osteoperosis. They get their calcium from plants and vegetables. This type of calcium is absorbed and utilized by our body much easier.

Milk is highly over-rated and not necessary for adults at all. It is due to our poor diets that we are becoming more dependent on milk for calcium supplementation.

well done you have watched videos and read stuff so you must know what goes on. No offence but this is exactly how these romours start and the reason why i put this post up.

Funny you say you buy organic, LOL. Organic milk is no better than normal and orgainic milk would have higher levels of bacteria and some other contaminants.

No hormones or steroids are allowed to be given to cows so how can they get into your milk. If a cow is given any drugs they have a witholding period were the milk is not sold. Also factories test the milk so if any drugs are in the milk you are in huge trouble.

I suggest you go to a farm a see how it is produced and what actually goes on.

I agree with you on soy milk.

Another think that i keep getting told it that chickens are pumped full of hormones and steriods to grow fast so you shouldn't eat it.

Wrong again i went to a broiler farm last week and i asked them this, well well, they have not been allowed to use steriods or hormones for the last 30 years.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

Australian cows are hormone & antibiotic free. And they are generally live their lives in open fields unlike some cows in Europe. Of course they get feed supplementation but its wheat/barley/lucerne.

And yes kidney stones are mostly calcium oxalate, I get some myself. Take all foods in moderation.

[McDugan]

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

It's a fact that our children are reaching puberty at an earlier age due to all the hormones that are added to milk and other products.

Source please.

[mommy*2*3]

Originally Posted by McDugan

Source please.

Do some research yourself on this. There are plenty of articles written as well as books. I'm not your research guide. I've done enough of the reading for my own benefit not yours. You might learn something while reading up on this.

[mommy*2*3]

Originally Posted by Kouta

well done you have watched videos and read stuff so you must know what goes on. No offence but this is exactly how these romours start and the reason why i put this post up..

These are not rumors, they are facts. Some of the things I've learned was presented as part of my biology and physiology classes I've taken. Like I said, maybe the regulation are different in Australia but here in the US the gian dairy farms are doing all kinds of ungodly things to get have a higher profit. That all it boils down to.

Originally Posted by Kouta

Funny you say you buy organic, LOL. Organic milk is no better than normal and orgainic milk would have higher levels of bacteria and some other contaminants. ..

That's not true. The milk is still pasturized. I personally don't drink milk but my children do and I don't deny them milk but try to make smart choices

Originally Posted by Kouta

No hormones or steroids are allowed to be given to cows so how can they get into your milk. If a cow is given any drugs they have a witholding period were the milk is not sold. Also factories test the milk so if any drugs are in the milk you are in huge trouble...

What are you talking about? Who tests the milk? Hormones are allowed to be given to cows and you bet they are in our milk. I HAVE been on a farm many times. I grew up in Europe where I've seen it all and have tasted regular fresh milk and have tasted fresh eggs too. However, the big dairy industries do not operate like your little farm that you are referring to.

Originally Posted by Kouta

Another think that i keep getting told it that chickens are pumped full of hormones and steriods to grow fast so you shouldn't eat it....

Yes, this is TRUE. I don't know what broiler farm you're talking about. The big meat industries do all kinds of things to get chickens to grow larger just like bodybuilders take all kinds of drugs to make their muscles larger...works the same way.

[NicktheRoofer]

I hear most of the bacteria, hormones, etc. etc. that enter the cows muscles are cleaned out by the cow's liver and the only part that you really shouldnt eat from a cow is the actual liver.

[Dosquito]

Milk is an awesome source of protein, and until someone will give me some actual proof that I shouldn't drink it I still will

[mommy*2*3]

Originally Posted by Dosquito

Milk is an awesome source of protein, and until someone will give me some actual proof that I shouldn't drink it I still will

http://www.milksucks.com/index2.html

http://www.consumerhealthjournal.com...nd-cancer.html

http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r382.html

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/bgh.htm

The following article is about hormones in other products as well, not just milk.

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/Fact...7.hormones.cfm

[monkeydan]

Dairy farms in the US use bovine growth hormone (rBGH or 'posilac', the trademark), which is used to increase the length of time a pregnant cow lactates and therefore increases milk yields. Cows injected with rBGH produce milk high in IGF-1 which has been linked with incidences of breast and prostate cancer as well as hypertension and diabetes. The FDA actually approved the use of rBGH despite the fact that Monsanto's report was fundamentally false. It's all very well saying that you'll continue to drink it until someone proves that it's harmful, but the evidence is already there.

I think Australia probably has much tighter controls but this isn't necessarily the case for everywhere else.

[Zelluz]

I’m with mommy*2*3 on everything.

I have read a lot about milk as well and its crazy what they do to cows and chickens to get more profit.


If you going to drink milk let it stay at the room temperature for 24-36 hours before drinking. Drink raw milk and if you can get goat milk - get it!

But by letting milk stay at the room temperature for 24-36 hours you let new good bacteria to grow and bad chemicals/bacteria to be destroyed. Milk then absorbs by your body much better and it’s much healthier that way too.

This is something that my dad told me and he used to live near farms and have read a lot about milk as well.


Remember, milk products that are made from raw milk ARE GOOD for you, not the milk itself that you buy from stores that have been processed with who knows what and for how long and then add vitamins to make it look its "good" for you.

The only milk you should drink is the goat milk that is very close to breast milk.

Make sure you get milk from cows/goats that have been grass fed too, not genetically modified grains or whatever else they give them at huge farms to lower the cost.


Milk is overrated.

[thebestrussian]

Originally Posted by monkeydan

Dairy farms in the US use bovine growth hormone (rBGH or 'posilac', the trademark), which is used to increase the length of time a pregnant cow lactates and therefore increases milk yields. Cows injected with rBGH produce milk high in IGF-1 which has been linked with incidences of breast and prostate cancer as well as hypertension and diabetes. The FDA actually approved the use of rBGH despite the fact that Monsanto's report was fundamentally false. It's all very well saying that you'll continue to drink it until someone proves that it's harmful, but the evidence is already there.

I think Australia probably has much tighter controls but this isn't necessarily the case for everywhere else.

you are 100% dead on.

i think the confusion in this thread arose because people are confusing american factory farms and australian farms.

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

These are not rumors, they are facts. Some of the things I've learned was presented as part of my biology and physiology classes I've taken. Like I said, maybe the regulation are different in Australia but here in the US the gian dairy farms are doing all kinds of ungodly things to get have a higher profit. That all it boils down to.

seriously just because you saw it on a video does not mean it is true. and especailly if it is funded by animal rights groups i would not take much notice of it.

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

That's not true. The milk is still pasturized. I personally don't drink milk but my children do and I don't deny them milk but try to make smart choices.

You really have no idea in the difference between organic and normal farming do you. LOL seriously check it out, people always believe organic foods are somehow better for you which is not always the case. Have a look at how it is produced.

Most people would not know this but some of the organic farming practices are alot worse for the environment than normal farming. But let me guess a video told you organic was better.

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

What are you talking about? Who tests the milk? Hormones are allowed to be given to cows and you bet they are in our milk. I HAVE been on a farm many times. I grew up in Europe where I've seen it all and have tasted regular fresh milk and have tasted fresh eggs too. However, the big dairy industries do not operate like your little farm that you are referring to.

I have said hormones are definatly NOT allowed in Australia, and i would have assumed other countries would not have allowed it either, i know canada has banned them. The factories that you sell the milk to tests it, and you can get banned antibiotics are found. Which is why there are witholding periods so the milk is not sold.

As for the comment about my little farm, yeah because you would know, the farm i am refering to is not little LOL. That comment has just shown to me i should not take much notice of what you say as you a willing to mouth off like that with no knowledge what so ever of my farm. Serious get some facts before making stupid remarks like that.

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

Yes, this is TRUE. I don't know what broiler farm you're talking about. The big meat industries do all kinds of things to get chickens to grow larger just like bodybuilders take all kinds of drugs to make their muscles larger...works the same way.

Again this is for Australia and i assumed most other countires would be the same. The use of hormones have been banned for 30 YEARS in AUS so they are DEFINATLY NOT using them, and before you say that this is a little farm you are wrong again they sell half a million birds a week and it is owned by a worldwide company.

again there is no actuall proof from RELIABLE sources that milk is bad. Most say how good milk is for you.

[mommy*2*3]

Originally Posted by Kouta

seriously just because you saw it on a video does not mean it is true. and especailly if it is funded by animal rights groups i would not take much notice of it.

No this was not a video funded by one of those animal rights groups...this was a video for educational purposes. I do not base my view upon watching one video. I've done my research.

Originally Posted by Kouta

You really have no idea in the difference between organic and normal farming do you. LOL seriously check it out, people always believe organic foods are somehow better for you which is not always the case. Have a look at how it is produced.

We are specifically talking about MILK here not other organic foods. I think you are what you eat and should make the wisest choices possible.

I have never seen a video on organic farming. Common sense tells me it's better not someone else. I know that there is no perfect farming method unless you're growing your vegetables in your own backyard and then you may have difficulties as well.

Originally Posted by Kouta

again there is no actuall proof from RELIABLE sources that milk is bad. Most say how good milk is for you.

Oh..OK...I think I'll pump a bunch of hormone filled milk into my body becasue MOST PEOPLE say I should. There's good thinking for ya! BTW...I've been a pretty successful female bodybuilder without drinking milk for many years. My body DOES NOT NEED IT. My diet consists of a lot of vegetables and good sources of protein. I get plenty of calcium from natural sources.

[XPinion]

Originally Posted by mommy*2*3

http://www.milksucks.com/index2.html

http://www.consumerhealthjournal.com...nd-cancer.html

http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r382.html

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/bgh.htm

The following article is about hormones in other products as well, not just milk.

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/Fact...7.hormones.cfm

Wow, a bunch of articles written over the internet. They must be true. In fact, the site 'milksucks.com' just reaks of scientific backing and being bias-free.

I'd make fun of you, but you made fun of yourself the second you posted the milksucks.com link to prove your point. No, I didn't got to the site.

BTW, I drank skim milk while posting this. You sound like a health-obsessed hypochondriac who probably wastes an extra $5000 on food to buy 'organic' while some kid in Africa would kill to eat. 'milksucks.com', I'm still laughing my ass of that you'd post that as 'proof'.

[mommy*2*3]

Sorry to offer my input - it's no use trying educate people who obviously know it all.

Have a nice day and God bless

[johnnyironboard]

Originally Posted by Kouta

another one that i have seen on these boards in the last couple of days is that cows are given growth hormone and steriods so they produce more milk and this gets into the milk.

If we are lucky!!

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by johnnyironboard

If we are lucky!!

yeah problem is bovine growth hormone has shown to have no effects on humans at all, the human body does not respond to bovine growth hormone, if it was human growth hormone different story.

XPINION
yeah as soon as i saw the milk sucks link i had a bit of a laugh, not much bias there.

I we did not put things into our body that were said to be bad by certian groups we would not be able to eat, drink or breath anything.

[apace]

what about cottage cheese , is it ok to take ? if we cant take milk as its dirty cheap and rich in protein and mixes with everything

[Kouta]

Originally Posted by apace

what about cottage cheese , is it ok to take ? if we cant take milk as its dirty cheap and rich in protein and mixes with everything

Mate milk and milk products are ok, infact they are great for you. It is just a few animal rights groups try tell people it is bad for you when it is not.

Personally i dont take much notice of anything these animal rights groups say they have a hidden agenda behind most things.

[WillieInc]

Everyone's body responds differently. For me, plain yogurt, skim milk, and certain cheeses tend to make me chunkier- even in moderation. As for cottage cheese, it does wonders for me- and I had no ill effects from it. I think a lot of these groups seem to go by people who can't tolerate milk, and blow it up to make it such a bad thing. I have heard people claim milk makes you fat- well not everyone. I do happen to be one of those people it effects, but I don't completely avoid it, because there are times I love to have a nice cold glass of it- I just know I can't regularly use it. The facts that some people go by with milk- using the allergic group as the target- may as well say nuts are bad, because there are people allergic to nuts. It's a shame what extremist groups will do just because they don't like something. These people just need to get to know their bodies better and not base their facts on what others do. Sure have all the scientific data, but where does it really get you? I used to be so afraid of food I didn't eat anything believoing all I heard. Pretty much everything is bad for you, but it's also good for you......lol it's such an obvious thing.

[apace]

I would think thats its better to take cottage cheese 14 grams of protein for 100 grams then whey protein
price for 14 grams of cottage cheese 22c5 usd
price for 14 grams on whey 22c usd

at least cottage cheese you are eating something so it gets you fuller , whey you are just drinking so you get hungry faster

and whey products claim that they have 25 gr / serving , and we do not know exactly if they contain what they claim or much less