Contest Pics....

**Ivan25** · 08-17-2005, 12:26 PM

Here are my contest pics... 2 backstage (side chest and most muscular) and a few on stage in relaxed poses... In the pic (155.jpg), starting from left-to-right in the line-up is (Me-5th, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, & 4th).... Although I had some weaknesses, I felt I should have been 3rd.... The 3rd place finisher had not much definition and his chest look like women's breasts.. The 4th place guy had good upperbody development but NO legs or glutes.... He had a washboard butt.... In fact, a promoter for another organization came up to me and told me he had me at 3rd... Not that it makes any difference now, but it's disappointing for all my hard work to be summed up by judges who emphasize mass and upperbody development over proportion.... My weaknesses IMO are as follows: small chest, abs, bicep peaks, tan, and facial presentation... I need to smile more and get a better tan before show... I had no idea of my tan line on my legs.... Nonetheless, this was the outcome.... I attached the remaining pics on another thread (Contest Pics2)

Ivan

**str8flexed** · 08-17-2005, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan25

Here are my contest pics... 2 backstage (side chest and most muscular) and a few on stage in relaxed poses... In the pic (155.jpg), starting from left-to-right in the line-up is (Me-5th, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, & 4th).... Although I had some weaknesses, I felt I should have been 3rd.... The 3rd place finisher had not much definition and his chest look like women's breasts.. The 4th place guy had good upperbody development but NO legs or glutes.... He had a washboard butt.... In fact, a promoter for another organization came up to me and told me he had me at 3rd... Not that it makes any difference now, but it's disappointing for all my hard work to be summed up by judges who emphasize mass and upperbody development over proportion.... My weaknesses IMO are as follows: small chest, abs, bicep peaks, tan, and facial presentation... I need to smile more and get a better tan before show... I had no idea of my tan line on my legs.... Nonetheless, this was the outcome.... I attached the remaining pics on another thread (Contest Pics2)

Ivan

what organization did you compete in?

I would have put you in fourth... i am personally a conditioning guy. Mass means nothing without cuts.

that stage looks familar... was this the NGA show in parkland, FL?

**RobDude** · 08-17-2005, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan25

Here are my contest pics... 2 backstage (side chest and most muscular) and a few on stage in relaxed poses... In the pic (155.jpg), starting from left-to-right in the line-up is (Me-5th, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, & 4th).... Although I had some weaknesses, I felt I should have been 3rd.... The 3rd place finisher had not much definition and his chest look like women's breasts.. The 4th place guy had good upperbody development but NO legs or glutes.... He had a washboard butt.... In fact, a promoter for another organization came up to me and told me he had me at 3rd... Not that it makes any difference now, but it's disappointing for all my hard work to be summed up by judges who emphasize mass and upperbody development over proportion.... My weaknesses IMO are as follows: small chest, abs, bicep peaks, tan, and facial presentation... I need to smile more and get a better tan before show... I had no idea of my tan line on my legs.... Nonetheless, this was the outcome.... I attached the remaining pics on another thread (Contest Pics2)

Ivan

Impressive pics. What weight group is this? (I don't know much about actual competitions)

**mliedtke1983** · 08-17-2005, 05:22 PM

You looked smooth man. I was in that shape 6 weeks out from my show. Need to get shredded for contest.

**Ivan25** · 08-17-2005, 05:55 PM

Yeah, it was NGA in Lafayette, LA.... I was sort of smooth... Yes I know I need to be more shredded... But my abs are there, I just think sucking in hurt my look... Also, look at the size of my legs compared to the other competitors, even the 1st place guy... My legs were probably up there in terms of being the best in size, width, symmetry, and definition... I don't think I pumped up enough back stage either.. I think I have a very solid base to work with... I busted my ass training for this doing balls-to-wall 315lb. squats for 3 x 5 reps, 220 lb for 20 reps, and 275 lb. for 15 reps...... I worked harder than most of these guys, only to fall b/c my upperbody and abs were not up to par... But look at the legs man, they tell a story... Shredding abs is not that hard, b/c it is mostly genetic if you got it like that guy had.... Anyway, I will definitely be more shredded for my next show... This only motivates me that much more...Thanks for the comments....

Ivan

**str8flexed** · 08-17-2005, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan25

Yeah, it was NGA in Lafayette, LA.... I was sort of smooth... Yes I know I need to be more shredded... But my abs are there, I just think sucking in hurt my look... Also, look at the size of my legs compared to the other competitors, even the 1st place guy... My legs were probably up there in terms of being the best in size, width, symmetry, and definition... I don't think I pumped up enough back stage either.. I think I have a very solid base to work with... I busted my ass training for this doing balls-to-wall 315lb. squats for 3 x 5 reps, 220 lb for 20 reps, and 275 lb. for 15 reps...... I worked harder than most of these guys, only to fall b/c my upperbody and abs were not up to par... But look at the legs man, they tell a story... Shredding abs is not that hard, b/c it is mostly genetic if you got it like that guy had.... Anyway, I will definitely be more shredded for my next show... This only motivates me that much more...Thanks for the comments....

Ivan

no offense but how do you know you worked harder than them? You don't know that. The guy that won was pretty shredded, ever care to think of all the hunger pains, 2x cardio days, etc he went through? how do you know his abs are genetic? That's a ridiculous assumption. Maybe the fact your legs are better than others is genetic. Stop making excuses. Focus on improving bro.

That said the NGA's judging is very inconsistant, though not as inconsistant as the NPC. The pictures are at awkward angles so it's tough for me to make a good judgment but I would put you in fourth. Use your placing as motivation to get in even better shape for your next show!

-Layne

**TexFlex** · 08-17-2005, 07:16 PM

I have to agree with Layne, probably should have placed 4th. You did come in smooth and from the pic's I couldn't see any striation's. You probably had the best legs, size wise but holding too much water in them. Natural competitions from what I understand usually put conditioning ahead of mass.

Sucks that you weren't pleased with your placing, next time don't leave any doubt in the judges minds. Come in hard and shreded.

**Ivan25** · 08-17-2005, 07:52 PM

Most definitely... Most definitely... I will use this as motivation.... As for holding too much water... Maybe your'e right.. I was pretty dehydrated... I did the carb loading approach and I sodium and water depleted.... And also, my body fat could have been lower.... Gosh, I just feel and believe in my heart that I can be successful in bodybuilding... I so see my potential... I mean, most guys I see have bird legs to start... My physique is pretty damn proportional and my height is good too at 5"7.... I know and believe I can place higher... But more important, I know I can come out looking way more shredded than I did for this show..... In fact, I know I will be more shredded for this next show.. Big time... If you notice in my backstage pics, I already have decent leg development... Although I screwed up wit the tan, you can still see some of the lines through my outer thigh and hip flexor area.... I hope to improve on this more... Plus increase the size of my chest and arms.... As for dieting and wated depleting, I will just play around wit this and see what works best....

**XTRMEWJ** · 08-17-2005, 09:26 PM

I agree...too smooth. That said, I still say congrats. A show is a show ands a big accomplishment. Winning or losing is irrelevant. The important thing is learning. You learned a lot in regards to how your body works. You learned about diet and exercise. You learned about posing, and contest prep...and thats just scratching the surface. Most importantly perhaps is you learned not only what works, but what does NOT work for you. Thats how you improve. Effort in the gym is ony part of the game. Just get back under the weight and keep your head down and go for it...you will kick ass next time if you apply the lessons you have learned.

Sean

**str8flexed** · 08-17-2005, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan25

Most definitely... Most definitely... I will use this as motivation.... As for holding too much water... Maybe your'e right.. I was pretty dehydrated... I did the carb loading approach and I sodium and water depleted.... And also, my body fat could have been lower.... Gosh, I just feel and believe in my heart that I can be successful in bodybuilding... I so see my potential... I mean, most guys I see have bird legs to start... My physique is pretty damn proportional and my height is good too at 5"7.... I know and believe I can place higher... But more important, I know I can come out looking way more shredded than I did for this show..... In fact, I know I will be more shredded for this next show.. Big time... If you notice in my backstage pics, I already have decent leg development... Although I screwed up wit the tan, you can still see some of the lines through my outer thigh and hip flexor area.... I hope to improve on this more... Plus increase the size of my chest and arms.... As for dieting and wated depleting, I will just play around wit this and see what works best....

that is a much better attitude. check out the contest prep articles on my site http://www.physiquescience.com

and my comprehensive precontest article on bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm i think they will help you greatly

**KickerStang** · 08-19-2005, 11:41 AM

Ivan,

Dont be so upset man, just take it as motivation like you said. You know what you need to improve on so focus on that, not your place in a contest. You have accomplished something 99% of people could never even dream of. Keep your head up and your heart in it....

**Ivan25** · 08-20-2005, 01:38 AM

Yeah thanks for encouragement Kickerstang... I am looking to compete again in Oct and do have fun doing it... And youre right... Honestly, I'm not thinking about placing... The funny thing is, I know I have a good physique and it qualifies enough to be able to display it on stage.... And I find this to be enough motivation... But even more, I really had fun the 1st time around... I didn't even feel nervous.. In fact, I felt more like I was confident and this was my time to shine... To display all the hard-work I put into my body at that point in time and to portrait it at its best.... I'm also going to really work on hitting my posing a lot better.... I've been reading up and getting some good tips... also, Im definitely going to tan... I wanna be like charcoal on stage... hahahahaha..... I love the fact that my legs are big and proportional... Again, I love this b/c it is fun and I like the chance to display my physique... Not to mention, it does also help when there are a lot of cheers from women.... That is awesome...... It's like, chicks dig hard-bodies... So cool....
Ivan

**ABE shorties** · 08-20-2005, 06:57 AM

you remind me alot of my self of when i first competed last yr i came 4th and felt i deserved better because i had the best proportions and symmetry but i was as smooth and flat as a pancake. i decided i would learn from this mistake and guess what i competed again this yr came in hard and won my class with relative ease. use this contest as motivation to do better and nxt time round blow them away.

**Ivan25** · 08-20-2005, 05:51 PM

ABE shorties... Yeah thanks man... I feel you and I will definitely work really hard in all aspects... Got a question... Are being smooth and flat the same thing? I interpret flat as the muscles lacking size on show day... What exactly is smooth? I'm thinking it is a lack of definition and shredding...

Ivan

**XTRMEWJ** · 08-20-2005, 10:40 PM

LOL...the semantics of our sport. Here is how I would define it:

Flat: Muscles that are clearly defined by appropiate levels of body fat, but lack sufficient carbs and water causing them to lose that "full" look.

Smooth: Muscles that are not clearly defined as a result of insufficient dieting. Carbs and intracellular water are irrelevant. Excessive extracellular water can contribute to this look however.

Could be right or wrong depending on how everybody views this stuff. That's my version.

Sean

**ABE shorties** · 08-21-2005, 06:02 AM

i agree with extreme.

**Ivan25** · 08-21-2005, 01:02 PM

I have a question... Look at the guy next to me with the great abs in Pic 148..... Is he extremely hunched over or is it just me? B/c, although he does have good abs, look at all the pics and compare his posture everyone else... He is the only person tensing his abs that extremely... On the day of the show he looked great and won... But in these pics, upon close examination, he doen't look that good in terms of size.... He actually looks small... Especially in pic 148,his chest is caved in from sitting so hard on this abs.... I have practiced posing this way, and it looks awesome from the front view (judges view)... But from backstage and sideview, it looks horrible... The back is all rounded and the gluts look flat..... Granted he had good development and coloring and onstage presence, I feel that maybe the the African-American contestant should have one... He is posing correctly and still has great abs.... It's almost like cheating and creating an illusion of looking good, as opposed to the reality of one's appearance... Look at the African-American guy.. He is way bigger and has great definition too.... He ended up placing 2nd.... My question is,should I sit hard on abs from front view only, but suck in on side and back views? Based on this contest, I think if i do, i might place higher..... Basically, it seems that what looks good only to the judges is what counts.... This could be where genetics come into play... I've seen lots of guys draw in on abs, and you can still see their abs really good from the stretch.... I don't have that yet.... However, if tensed from a hunched position, my abs look great... If I tense from a sucking in position, my abs look the same, but the tension hides my ribs a little more... I think drawing in looks good if one's ribs don't show too much... However, I find the toughest pose in relaxed is in-between... Sucking in AND tensing... this is extraordinarily tough.... Sitting on abs and just sucking in are easy.... But the best one from all angles is probably the toughest one (sucking in AND tensing)... The best looking one from a judges view is tensing abs only..... So my question is, which posing technique is best for abs from front relaxed pose and side relaxed?

Ivan

**JD1** · 08-23-2005, 01:34 PM

Yes he had tendancy to flex his abs because it is one of his best points, smart guy, but I believe the posure of the Bodybuilders is supposed to be taken in account by the judges, and in a "front relaxed pose" the back is supposed to be straight (or at least as straight as you can, it looks like he needs a bathroom), I found it really odd, maybe I am wrong.

You did good Ivan, even though there was a little lack of conditioning like many said already, but don't be discouraged for one show, the first show tells you what mistakes you did so you don't make it again, take it as a first experience, not everyone have the courage to get on stage, congrats Ivan!

And don't worry, I finished myself 4th out of 5 in my Junior Class back in June, I was very mad too for a few days because we all work so hard to get on stage, and in my show the bigger guys and well known competitors had the 2 first places, but I didn't take it in account, as it was my first contest and only 1 1/2 year of bb under my belt.
I knew this was not the best attitude to have afterwards, you know you can do even better at the next show as you said and can surprise everyone, give them what they didn't expect from you, show them what they missed, really good luck for the next show Ivan!

**XTRMEWJ** · 08-23-2005, 03:37 PM

Being hunched over in a standing relaxed position is a bad thing...that said, if you can get away with the slightest bend to bring out those abs, that will do nothing but help the cause. I think the poses are all hit differently based on body type. For example, I hit a crab most muscular pose a LOT different than a guy who is 5'5". At 6'2", my torso looks to be 8 feet long if I dont hit that pose a certain way. The bottom line here is we all do what we have to do with the poses to make them suit us in the best way. Thats the trick... learning how you look best in each pose and then learning to replicate it on stage.

Sean

**Ivan25** · 08-25-2005, 10:30 AM

Awesome advice man.... I really think that was spectacular.. It's exactly how I feel about it.... So, I'm going to work on getting my poses looking best... Your'e right... All we can do is be the best WE can be...... Do everything WE can control, and let nature run it's course letting everything fall in it's place.... I'm planning on competing Oct.... And looking forward to it..

Ivan

**XTRMEWJ** · 08-25-2005, 03:03 PM

Glad to hear it helped. To further your thought there, thats the problem with this sport...you only have so much control if you know what I mean. I can control my training, my diet, my prep work, ect...but I have zero control over the other competitors, how they prepare, how the judges vote, ect. Like you said, you just do what you can and let the chips fall where they may...and have a good time along the way.

Good luck at your show...I am 23 days away from mine.

Sean

**John Matrix** · 08-29-2005, 03:46 PM

you look kinda nervous and out of place in those pictures as well man.. i would work on your onstage confidence.. smile and dont worry about looking over to see what the other guys look like.. makes you look worried

**XTRMEWJ** · 08-29-2005, 09:31 PM

in his defense, by the look of my facial expressions, I looked like I was birthing a child my first time out. LOL...its hard to smile when you are hitting a crab MM shot or an overhead ab shot...hard to flex all that **** and then smile. I agree though...smil as much as you can look like you are 100% in control.

Sean

**Al Shades** · 08-31-2005, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by str8flexed

I would have put you in fourth... i am personally a conditioning guy.

Oh yeah baby, it shows. For the sake of your cuts you go from being a total monster off-season to an average 15 year old on stage. Keep chasin' after those cuts.

**BPP** · 09-07-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Al Shades

Oh yeah baby, it shows. For the sake of your cuts you go from being a total monster off-season to an average 15 year old on stage. Keep chasin' after those cuts.

good job Ivan, gluck again next motnh!

**str8flexed** · 09-08-2005, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Al Shades

Oh yeah baby, it shows. For the sake of your cuts you go from being a total monster off-season to an average 15 year old on stage. Keep chasin' after those cuts.

are you referring to me in contest shape or Ivan.

Either way I think your response shows that you don't understand the judging criteria for bodybuilding shows.

**Al Shades** · 09-08-2005, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by str8flexed

are you referring to me in contest shape or Ivan.

Either way I think your response shows that you don't understand the judging criteria for bodybuilding shows.

Was referring to you. And I'm well aware of the judging criteria, but I happen to disagree with it. Besides, there is a great deal of unpredictability to the judging in this sport, as every competitor knows. Yet, as a whole, the sport has changed over time. This is because of individuals who did not follow the trends of their time and, instead, took their physiques in new directions. In light of this, I think my comments were legitimate. It is largely a personal preference. I believe you'd look a hell of a lot better if you retained more of your off-season size.

**str8flexed** · 09-08-2005, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Al Shades

Was referring to you. And I'm well aware of the judging criteria, but I happen to disagree with it. Besides, there is a great deal of unpredictability to the judging in this sport, as every competitor knows. Yet, as a whole, the sport has changed over time. This is because of individuals who did not follow the trends of their time and, instead, took their physiques in new directions. In light of this, I think my comments were legitimate. It is largely a personal preference. I believe you'd look a hell of a lot better if you retained more of your off-season size.

sorry if you think I look like a 15 year old in contest shape

**XTRMEWJ** · 09-08-2005, 08:43 PM

Kind of funny for a "Renaissance Bodybuilder" to argue against being shredded for a show(older school) rather than just being big(newer mentality). I am not attacking you man...you are entitled to your opinion and thats cool. Also worth noting is that the judging criteria for the natural shows is different than that of the untested shows. The INBF, NANBF, OCB and WNBF all tend to reward cuts over size. Thats the way it should be. If a show were to allow guys with beer guts to be competitive would it still be called bodybuilding? I mean, if you go for that size over seperation argument, where do you draw the line? What is too fat?

I see your point though about the sport changing...I just wish it had not changed...also a very valid point regarding the inconsistencies of judging. Thats my only gripe I have with our sport...its subjective. Thats the reason I dont get worked up if I do not place as highly as I would like. I don't do this for a trophy...

Sean

**Al Shades** · 09-08-2005, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by str8flexed

sorry if you think I look like a 15 year old in contest shape

These are your newer pics, correct? You would seem to be coming in bigger, and if that's truly the case, then I applaud you for that. But look at your old contest pics and you will see where my opinion originated.

Originally Posted by XTRMEWJ

Kind of funny for a "Renaissance Bodybuilder" to argue against being shredded for a show(older school) rather than just being big(newer mentality). I am not attacking you man...you are entitled to your opinion and thats cool. Also worth noting is that the judging criteria for the natural shows is different than that of the untested shows. The INBF, NANBF, OCB and WNBF all tend to reward cuts over size. Thats the way it should be. If a show were to allow guys with beer guts to be competitive would it still be called bodybuilding? I mean, if you go for that size over seperation argument, where do you draw the line? What is too fat?

I see your point though about the sport changing...I just wish it had not changed...also a very valid point regarding the inconsistencies of judging. Thats my only gripe I have with our sport...its subjective. Thats the reason I dont get worked up if I do not place as highly as I would like. I don't do this for a trophy...

Let me attempt to clarify my position a bit further. I, too, prefer the old-school physiques to the current ones. I'm very much an aesthetics and proportions guy. I simply think that many of the contestants I see these days are sacrificing way too much size, needlessly. This is a crucial point. Bodybuilding, especially at the competitive stage, is all about creating an image, in other words, much of it is an illusion (with the posing and such). Think about it this way. Imagine two simultaneous images of a bodybuilder, one of them on the street, when he is not pumped up or anything, and the other on stage at a competition. In terms of the image he projects, he has so many more things going for him on stage that they are difficult to count:

Fully pumped, tanned, oiled up, adequate lighting conditions, etc.

These are all advantages that are gained simply by stepping on stage. They require no previous preparation. The image of a BBer on stage would be drastically different from one taken of him off-stage - even on the same day! Here's where I break from the mainstream. I think that many competitors are structuring their pre-contest training around "off-stage" images, rather than taking into account the numerous aesthetic advantages that they will be given once they step on stage. As a result, they are over-dieting and sacrificing too much size for definition that they could have had in any case.

Now, to use Layne as an example of my argument, take a look at the following pics:

Off-Season
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layneab.jpg
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/laynebd.jpg
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/laynetri.jpg

The pics are blurry, he is not tanned, oiled, or pumped up, the lighting is not as good as it could be, yet he has obvious definition to go with his size. Now look at this:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/laynebstage.jpg

Here, he DOES have the advantage being tanned, pumped up, etc...
Yet his definition is not much improved from his off season, and his size is GREATLY diminished.

This is simply pointless, in my opinion. I see it all the time. People are losing way too much size and getting nothing in return. Once again, take a look at one of his off-season shots:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...hmentid=227551

No tan, no oil, yet his definition is obvious, and his size is fearsome. If you factor in a week's worth of calorie restriction and water depletion, then take into account all of the aesthetic factors associated with stepping on stage, he would look DAMN GOOD competing with that physique.

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