Real World Glutamine Test

[PSKlifter]

This concept was brought up in another thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...=556940&page=1

Purpose: To prove/disprove the theory behind gluatmine usage.
Subject: Looking for a member who has been around for a while, has a very strict and regimented diet, who is going to be doing a cut or severe cut in the immediate future, who is relatively unbiased and who is willing to do a log.
Experiement: Stable environment. Diet/supplementation, routine, duration all to remain constant. Only variable will be use of a glutamine product. Will be a basic comparison in body stats, lifts, etc while using vs not using.

Any volunteers please post here or pm. Also, any one who wants to contribute or nominate other members feel free. We also need to come to a consensus on which product will be used, and a consistant dosing scheme. This will be funded by me, for the general benefit and knowledge of the board. Hopefully will lay to rest some opinions on glutamine supplementation.

Disclaimer: I personally do not believe in glutamine supplementation, this is why I will not run this myself, as results may be skewed. Looking for objectivity in this experiement.

[Scivation]

I will donate to this.

Perhaps we can do a complete test using Chuck's diet and supplementation program?

It worked for Dito....when he followed it!

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by Scivation

I will donate to this.

Perhaps we can do a complete test using Chuck's diet and supplementation program?

It worked for Dito....when he followed it!

Do you have a link to this diet etc? Would be curious to see. And yea, if it would eliminate potential variables and deviances, I am all for it.

[Scivation]

Chuck normally charges for diets, but I'll talk to him about maybe one or two people.

[Scivation]

Originally Posted by PSKlifter

Do you have a link to this diet etc? Would be curious to see. And yea, if it would eliminate potential variables and deviances, I am all for it.

www.dietsbychuck.com.

It is not posted. There is a fee and it is personalized.

[dito]

I didn't get the little food substitute book so I freaked.

[pu12en12g]

1) What form of glutamine will be used ?

2) I nominate:

GhostfaceKillah
Lok7y / Loki
Sawastea
Dio
Par Deus
Dito
Matt96Teg
Uhockey
Psklifter
j_neatherlin
chlaxman
Colinballin (sp ?)
Lonny
Bammy
Aeternitatis
spoonman
drewkowsky
zachattack43
sixabs
acecombat (sp ?)
RippedUp
McBain
Estospell (sp ?)
Newport Surfer
BringnIt
ChiTown72

[PSKlifter]

I see what your saying. Although if drastically switching the subjects diet, this may cause results/effects not directly correlating to the change in supplementation, don't you think?

[Scivation]

Originally Posted by PSKlifter

I see what your saying. Although if drastically switching the subjects diet, this may cause results/effects not directly correlating to the change in supplementation, don't you think?

Yes, but is there another way?

We will use Glutaform for the experiment.

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by Scivation

Yes, but is there another way?

We will use Glutaform for the experiment.

We could assess the subject's diet first. Tweak what needs to be, leaving in tact as much as possible. This is all just brainstorming, by no means am I saying lets not do a specified diet, just throwing out options and thoughts.

[BringnIt]

What would the dosing protocol be?

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by BringnIt

What would the dosing protocol be?

Thoughts on this?

Option 1: 3 servings- pre wo, during, post wo
Option 2: 1 serving- pre bed
Option 3: 2 servings- split morning/night

open for other potential options...

[BringnIt]

I guess it depends on what you truly are trying to establish.

A) Whether or not glutamine can be taken cost-effectively.
B) Whether or not glutamine can have positive effects taken at high doses.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by PSKlifter

open for other potential options...

My initial thoughts are that most of us agree that at some "point of starvation" / cutting oral glutamine will indeed have an effect (yes even despite piss poor bioavailability).

So I'm not sure that a glutamine trial while cutting will really prove anything ?

[Scivation]

The person must be hypocaloric and training hard, as we've stated all along.

[ironLifeBG]

quick question:

during this test will you be limiting the number of whey protein shakes a person can have during the day?

i imagine this would effect the results.

[Scivation]

Originally Posted by ironLifeBG

quick question:

during this test will you be limiting the number of whey protein shakes a person can have during the day?

i imagine this would effect the results.

Diet should remain consistent, so I'd leave it as is and see what EXTRA glutamine does.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Scivation

see what EXTRA glutamine does.

I nominate Dtrain

[BringnIt]

Another option would be to do small doses every hour and see if that does anything.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...028&query_hl=5

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by Scivation

Diet should remain consistent, so I'd leave it as is and see what EXTRA glutamine does.

agreed to this much

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

My initial thoughts are that most of us agree that at some "point of starvation" / cutting oral glutamine will indeed have an effect (yes even despite piss poor bioavailability).

So I'm not sure that a glutamine trial while cutting will really prove anything ?

point taken. in my mind this was when i considered that it could be effective, that is why i originally was talking about cutting. I'm all for testing it in hypercaloric fashion as well though, if thats the direction this is going.

[Beast]

Very interesting. I think that whoever is choosen to do this MUST do weekly measurements of their
-Weight (scale)
-Body composition testing (i.e. calipers)
-Muscle Girth
These should be measured on a rest day (same day each week), first thing in the morning after using the bathroom.

I have some excel spreadsheets with the calculations already programed in I will send to whoever does this test.

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by Beast

Very interesting. I think that whoever is choosen to do this MUST do weekly measurements of their
-Weight (scale)
-Body composition testing (i.e. calipers)
-Muscle Girth
These should be measured on a rest day (same day each week), first thing in the morning after using the bathroom.

I have some excel spreadsheets with the calculations already programed in I will send to whoever does this test.

I agree. Thank you for the contribution. Helpful as usual.

[DRP7]

Hello, I would like to participate in the glutamine-trial.
I have been cutting for a while, then I reached a plateau at 12% bf and 79 kg bw although I am still on (mild) caloric restriction. My goal is to achieve a breakthrough this summer (bf at 8%) and to get rid of all residual abdominal fat before I start clean bulking in autumn/winter.
So, I will have to dramatically enhance my energy expenditure (more cardio; more volume-based weight lifting instead of HIT; even less kcal-intake).
I am curious how far glutamine-supplementation may help me with this.

best regards

david

[Big Boi 1906]

Interesting

[Lonny]

Give it to Bringit. He contributes a lot and doesn't get nearly as much free stuff as he deserves. I would like to see Estospell get it as well. Hes pretty unbiased and it would make him get the hell back on the forum.

[IronPimper]

Originally Posted by PSKlifter

Thoughts on this?

Option 1: 3 servings- pre wo, during, post wo
Option 2: 1 serving- pre bed
Option 3: 2 servings- split morning/night

open for other potential options...

Only option 1 is going to serve the purpose of proving or disproving glutamines usefullness. I haven't seen anyone argue that it has effects above and beyond fighting immunodeficiency and fighting catabolism. Thus, if those are the only two true effects, supplementation must occur when those conditions exist, ie, during and post workout. Pre workout, and in the morning would not be necessary, unless the person is doing cardio on an empty stomach in the morning, which alters conditions.

Since we are using glutaform, I would assume that this is going to be a 30 day trial. That means the tester can use 11g per day of glutaform for 30 days (if we are using the smaller jug). If scivation is willing to pony up a big jug, we could use 15g per day for 45 days, which I feel would be a MUCH better trial. I suggest:

1.) The tester be required to post pictures

2.) The tester have full body measurements and 7-point skinfold bf weekly

3.) The tester CAN do cardio up to twice per day, BUT CANNOT do cardio on an empty stomach in the morning. They should be REQUIRED to do cardio post workout if time allows.

4.) The tester should take glutaform in 2 doses, 5g during the workout, and 10g immediately after, but before during cardio. (They would not be allowed to consume food or bcaa's until immediately following cardio)

5.) The tester be required to log their daily diet and post it weekly, or bi-weekly (no need to type it up every single day, just at the end of each week or two).

6.) The tester must have proper pre-sleep diet (nightly catabolism will affect results)

7.) The tester must do a rigorous resistance routine, no 5x5. Should be moderate to high volume training. 13-17 sets per body part, 5-6 days per week.

[PSKlifter]

Originally Posted by IronPimper

Only option 1 is going to serve the purpose of proving or disproving glutamines usefullness. I haven't seen anyone argue that it has effects above and beyond fighting immunodeficiency and fighting catabolism. Thus, if those are the only two true effects, supplementation must occur when those conditions exist, ie, during and post workout. Pre workout, and in the morning would not be necessary, unless the person is doing cardio on an empty stomach in the morning, which alters conditions.

Since we are using glutaform, I would assume that this is going to be a 30 day trial. That means the tester can use 11g per day of glutaform for 30 days (if we are using the smaller jug). If scivation is willing to pony up a big jug, we could use 15g per day for 45 days, which I feel would be a MUCH better trial. I suggest:

1.) The tester be required to post pictures

2.) The tester have full body measurements and 7-point skinfold bf weekly

3.) The tester CAN do cardio up to twice per day, BUT CANNOT do cardio on an empty stomach in the morning. They should be REQUIRED to do cardio post workout if time allows.

4.) The tester should take glutaform in 2 doses, 5g during the workout, and 10g immediately after, but before during cardio. (They would not be allowed to consume food or bcaa's until immediately following cardio)

5.) The tester be required to log their daily diet and post it weekly, or bi-weekly (no need to type it up every single day, just at the end of each week or two).

6.) The tester must have proper pre-sleep diet (nightly catabolism will affect results)

7.) The tester must do a rigorous resistance routine, no 5x5. Should be moderate to high volume training. 13-17 sets per body part, 5-6 days per week.

solid contribution as always IP

[dito]

Originally Posted by Lonny

Give it to Bringit. He contributes a lot and doesn't get nearly as much free stuff as he deserves. I would like to see Estospell get it as well. Hes pretty unbiased and it would make him get the hell back on the forum.

Good choices as well.

[BringnIt]

Thanks for the love guys, but I'm not very interested in being a tester for this particular experiment.