Don't join the armed forces......unless...

[Flex500]

alright I get fired up about this topic and I wanted to see if I am outta line or if you guys agree at all. I got in a big debate the other day at work because on television there was this lady (not the lady protesting in Texas) saying "all my son joined the army for was for money in college, not to fight, and now he is dead, how could this happen?"

Before I lay into this a bit let me first say I support our troops and I am sorry for every death that occurs, I wish not one soldier had to die.

Now here is my problem. Every one at work agreed! They were all saying yeah these kids all joined the army for money for school they shouldn't have to fight. Aren't these people forgetting what the armed forces are for??? It is not a fun club to get some free cash. DO NOT JOIN THE ARMED FORCES UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO GIVE YOUR LIFE!!!! It makes me sick how these people just join and then get all mad and think "well I never thought that could happen" Give me a break. Also my mom has a friend who told her her son to join the army to pay for school and he did. He just found out he is going to Iraq and they are now saying they didn't know that could happen because he just wanted money for school so they are trying to get him out of going.

It is one thing to protest the war and not agree with it. But it is crazy that so many people are stunned that their sons/daughters could actually have to fight. It's not like these people signed up for ballet lessons then got shipped off to fight a war. What do you guys think?

[AntonToo]

People are stupid and then they don't want to pay up for consequnces of that....very natural.

[Ruhanv]

I hear what you are saying and I do agree with you in part but I have two issues with this view:

- The military is partly to blame for this perception. They bombard young people with recruitment drives emphasising issues like college degrees and on the job training, especially in areas such as IT. They set these kids' expectations incorrectly in order to get them to sign up in the first place.

- As a person in the military you expect to serve your country in its' defence and best interests. Afghanistan suits this description. Iraq does not.

[Hartski]

Anyone that joins the armed forces and isn't prepared for the possibility of actually having to go to war is too dumb to be there in the first place.

[beerman_420]

ya the miltary is part to blame , i agree with that one dude. but on the other hand people need to know what the military is all about ...not some 21st century boy scout club where you get free things if you make it through basic training

[.Kiw.Da.Wabbit.]

I understand that the armed forces recruitment is more than likely deceptive, but come on. This is where common sense should come into play. I understand that it sucks, but you signed up for it!

[Agnostic]

I agree that they shouldnt. But the recruiters are very deceptive, at least in my experiences. They will tell you that you can get a job where you dont have to go, or if you do, you wont have to be in combat. It is very pathetic how low they will stoop.

[run213]

When I joined the service I knew what I was getting into. Sure I was given the soft sell by my recruiter. He stressed a college education, a chance to see the world,all the good stuff. But at the end of the day you have to sign the contract and you know when you join that combat is a possibillity. Any one who doesnt know this is stupid or lying. As to the poster who suggessted that one shouldnt have to go to Iraq but afganistan was ok. That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard When you Join you are serveing the United States of America. Not your own belief system. If you think our country may get involved in a conflict that you might be opposed to then dont join.The armed services are not a debating club.

[Flex500]

well I do agree that they do somewhat market it as "an easy way to get money for school" but on the other hand when it comes down do business and they actual sign up you have to know you may have to fight, right? Also going into it you have to realize you don't get to choose what war we are involved in. I just feel like if you sign up be prepared to fight and give your life, just hope you don't have to.

[Purge]

I hear what you are saying and I do agree with you in part but I have two issues with this view:

- The military is partly to blame for this perception. They bombard young people with recruitment drives emphasising issues like college degrees and on the job training, especially in areas such as IT. They set these kids' expectations incorrectly in order to get them to sign up in the first place.

- As a person in the military you expect to serve your country in its' defence and best interests. Afghanistan suits this description. Iraq does not.

Great post, bro.

[IROCthe5.7L]

Great post, I couldn't agree more. Reps when I recharge. Ppl need to fully realize what they're getting into, this isn't a game. When you join you know full well you could lose your life.

[Flex500]

Great post, I couldn't agree more. Reps when I recharge. Ppl need to fully realize what they're getting into, this isn't a game. When you join you know full well you could lose your life.

i agree 100%

[krazykarl]

I hear what you are saying and I do agree with you in part but I have two issues with this view:

- The military is partly to blame for this perception. They bombard young people with recruitment drives emphasising issues like college degrees and on the job training, especially in areas such as IT. They set these kids' expectations incorrectly in order to get them to sign up in the first place.

- As a person in the military you expect to serve your country in its' defence and best interests. Afghanistan suits this description. Iraq does not.

why doesn't iraq fit that?


let me say some things first:

-we are not there because saddam was a ruthless dictator. He may have been, but that was not the reason we went in

-we are not there because of the oil - the fact there is oil there is a nice "aside"

we are there as an example. there were not sufficent reasons to go in there but we did anyways. yes, there is no reason for us to be in there, but we are anyways. 9/11 happened, but so did 20+ other similar incidents(read: terrorist attacks on the US/US personel) since the early 80s. A lot of little things were in place to give adaquate substance for the politicans to make a decision and cite some examples as to justify their decision.


If we are in iraq and there is no reason for us to be there, do you think we will hesitate when there is a reason that is popular with public opinion? people need to grow up - everything isn't cut-and-dry, there isn't an acceptable reason for everything. we now have a position in the middle east in addition to demonstrating that the current administration will not hesitate to take action based upon the most remote reasons.

[Oldbastard]

Back in the 60's & 70's parents had a right to be pissed that their kids where being killed in Viet Nam because there was a draft, most where forced to go. There is no draft now, so that lady in Texas should STFU, her son joined the Army and knew what he was getting into. I Think she is dishonoring her own sons memory for acting the way she is. It took courage and a love for ones country to do what he did.

[Agnostic]

If you joined the military post 9/11 and bitching about combat...you are a complete ****tard.

[4amWorkouts]

I got in a big debate the other day at work because on television there was this lady (not the lady protesting in Texas) saying "all my son joined the army for was for money in college, not to fight, and now he is dead, how could this happen?"

If this lady is correct, her son attempted to commit fraud when he joined the military. When you are inducted into any branch of the armed services, you swear an oath to defend the US against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. If her son took money and training with no intent to fullfill this oath, he did so under fraudulant terms.

We hear of this all the time with many of the reservists. They take and take from the military without any intent to fullfill their end of the contract. When many are asked to to 'repay' their education and training, they baulk.

Regardless of what recruiters say or how you may feel about any war, the soilder or sailor has sworn to fullfill their oath. Period, end of story...

[Agnostic]

If this lady is correct, her son attempted to commit fraud when he joined the military. When you are inducted into any branch of the armed services, you swear an oath to defend the US against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. If her son took money and training with no intent to fullfill this oath, he did so under fraudulant terms.

We hear of this all the time with many of the reservists. They take and take from the military without any intent to fullfill their end of the contract. When many are asked to to 'repay' their education and training, they baulk.

Regardless of what recruiters say or how you may feel about any war, the soilder or sailor has sworn to fullfill their oath. Period, end of story...

Agreed, the soldiers should know. But some actually trust the recruiter. You act like its ok for a recruiter to be fradulent, but other soldiers not.

[Bakira]

I totally agree.

If you join the Armed forces just to get the money and think you won't get sent off to fight, you get what's coming to you. This isn't a game. This isn't Counter Strike for goodness sakes.

I feel sorry for the people who have to fight, but the Military isn't there to pay for you to go to College, it's there to defend this great country of ours. If you don't want to fight, THEN DON'T JOIN. Simple as that.

[Stinker]

This is the reason I dissaprove of military recruiters in high schools. The schools bombard kids with the importance of getting into college so that you can have "a future" and then these army dudes come along and say here, you can get an education in the military no worries added to the fact that teenagers think they are invincible anyway. The thing is if you are going to run recruitment drives where you try to convince people the military is a good career path and then there are support the troop programs that put these guys on pedistals then people are going to start getting the wrong idea. Now I'm not saying that the military should be bad-mouthed to keep people out but if they are going to sell the military as a college education rather than what it really is then you are going to get a few people who are in it for the wrong reasons.

Every president has a military campagn, it's almost part of the job now and at any time our troops are deployed all around the world. If you join the military chances are the US will be involved in some conflict during your time and you may end up being one of the one's that die. It's sad but true and people should expect it. If you want an education that without the possible life risk then pay for it.

[Zarnold]

If you joined the military post 9/11 and bitching about combat...you are a complete ****tard.

BUMP!!!!!



No one I knew the entire time I was in the Marine Corps joined for just school or travel etc. If the lady you're reffering to is the one I think she is then I share your headache. Six weeks before her son died she met with President Bush and praised him for what a good job he was doing. Now she's allied herself with Michael Moore, an individual who likens terrorist to the revolutionary minute men. All he's concerned about is money though.....so he'll use her until she's dried up and just about the time she realizes she's disgracing her sons memory and everything he did over there he'll drop her like a bad habit and use someone else in his PR campaign that blaims everything on the U.S. She said it was Bush's fault that her son died.........I guess the terrorist had nothing to do with it?


FYI Her husband filed for a divorce last week.....wonder why

[Hartski]

You join the Corps to kick ass and take names. You join the Air Force or Navy to get money for college.

[Flex500]

also on a side note, on msnbc they said that the lady in texas protesting doesn't have much family with her because many of her family members said she is "exploiting her sons memory" just thought that was interesting.

Anyway I am glad you guys agree because every woman in one of the offices I go to a lot for work was against my thinking.

[majortrepak]

alright I get fired up about this topic and I wanted to see if I am outta line or if you guys agree at all. I got in a big debate the other day at work because on television there was this lady (not the lady protesting in Texas) saying "all my son joined the army for was for money in college, not to fight, and now he is dead, how could this happen?"

Before I lay into this a bit let me first say I support our troops and I am sorry for every death that occurs, I wish not one soldier had to die.

Now here is my problem. Every one at work agreed! They were all saying yeah these kids all joined the army for money for school they shouldn't have to fight. Aren't these people forgetting what the armed forces are for??? It is not a fun club to get some free cash. DO NOT JOIN THE ARMED FORCES UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO GIVE YOUR LIFE!!!! It makes me sick how these people just join and then get all mad and think "well I never thought that could happen" Give me a break. Also my mom has a friend who told her her son to join the army to pay for school and he did. He just found out he is going to Iraq and they are now saying they didn't know that could happen because he just wanted money for school so they are trying to get him out of going.

It is one thing to protest the war and not agree with it. But it is crazy that so many people are stunned that their sons/daughters could actually have to fight. It's not like these people signed up for ballet lessons then got shipped off to fight a war. What do you guys think?

4amWorkouts & Zarnold are on the money. Military ppl take an oath to follow ALL ORDERS this includes going to wars they don't agree with. When we as a society decided to stop the draft we made recruiters salesmen and what do salesmen do? Lie/put everything in a glowing light I'm not surprised if ppl can't realize this when they talk to one their morons. LOL at everyone who thinks recruiters shouldn't be in high school. We want a all voluntary military but for God's sake don't try and recruit ppl.

[Stinker]

LOL at everyone who thinks recruiters shouldn't be in high school. We want a all voluntary military but for God's sake don't try and recruit ppl.

It's not that I don't think the military shouldn't try to recruit people I just don't think they should be trying to recruit people who only shave once a week. Recruit anyone else you want to, but children should be given a little time to grow up first.

[majortrepak]

It's not that I don't think the military shouldn't try to recruit people I just don't think they should be trying to recruit people who only shave once a week. Recruit anyone else you want to, but children should be given a little time to grow up first.

So do you think ppl are adults at 18?

[Agnostic]

So do you think ppl are adults at 18?

Most are not.

[Hartski]

It's not that I don't think the military shouldn't try to recruit people I just don't think they should be trying to recruit people who only shave once a week. Recruit anyone else you want to, but children should be given a little time to grow up first.

Hey, I'm almost 27 and I only shave once a week!

[majortrepak]

Most are not.

I agree somewhat. Most don't act like adults but they are given legal status of adults at 18. They can vote buy smokes ect. ect. Do these ppl have no common sense or what? Have they never gone to a car dealership or something? The recuriter never told me I'd have to go to war..

[goblin6]

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in here since I ama vet.
One ( and this is rather nitpicky)-You swear an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America, not America herself, against all enemies foreign and domestic. You also swear to follow the orders of the President and all others in the chain of command in accordance with the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). So sending you to Afghanistan or Iraq is a legal order, and has to be followed. Telling you shoot a 3 year old in the head is not and does not have to be followed, in fact you are under obligation to NEVER follow an illegal order.
So anyone who enlists in the military has to ralize the cahnce is VERY HIGH that you are going to be sent to a combat zone at some point in your enlistement period whether you are in a combat arm or not.
One of the first things they tell you in Basic is that your recruiter lied to you

[run213]

Good point goblin6. We all know what we are getting into when we join. That is why it is called an all volunteer army. Another point no one seems to adress. Is that it should be an honor to serve ones country. You shouldnt have to expect special benefits for serving. They are nice, but that shouldnt be your main motivation. You should serve because you love your country and you want show your appreciation for the freedoms that you have.