Bodybuilding.com starting a product label testing and cGMP program?

[deserusan]

In response to a blog entry I made a few days ago regarding a company selling a fake anabolic I got an interesting comment from Bodybuilding.com CEO Ryan Deluca. I'm just curious how the members of the forum feel about Bodybuilding.com starting it's own GMP and testing program? He's all ears.

Originally Posted by Ryan Deluca

What do you think about Bodybuilding.com starting a product label testing and GMP program? We would test certain products and check for GMP certification for each company (through a 3rd party like the NNFA that already does this).

We wouldn?t show the negative results (too many lawsuits and ways that it could be inaccurate) but we WOULD promote the good guys? on our site and in our ads.

The idea is that the good guys would get MORE sales for being honest, rather than the other way around. This could be a good thing for the industry as a whole?

For you those of you who don't know what cGMP means "certification of Good Manufacturing Processes." Here is a good overview:

Originally Posted by Nautral Products Association (formerly NNFA)

Consistent with basic CGMP principles, ensuring the quality of the dietary supplement product requires that the manufacturer establish precisely what it will produce (specifications for its product), how it will make the product (processes), and which process controls and tests it will use to ensure reliable, reproducible results. 21 CFR 111 Preamble (page 113)

Under the final FDA GMPs for dietary supplements, testing and/or examinations are used to confirm incoming components and in-process materials meet their specifications. Additionally, testing and examination are required to ensure that the manufacturing processes were sufficiently controlled to ensure that the finished product meets its specifications and was not unintentionally contaminated or adulterated during its manufacture.

Why are dietary supplement GMPs important?

GMPs provide a framework of controls that are intended to:

-Protect the product from adulteration or contamination.
-Prevent mix-ups and errors.
-Let you and other personnel know what to do before you or they do it.
-Ensure consistency and control throughout the manufacturing process.
-Ensure quality is designed into the manufacturing process and products.
-Document what really occurred throughout the production cycle.
-Provide an independent group to make the final decisions regarding approval and release or rejection.
-Provide mechanisms for companies to solve problems, learn from mistakes, monitor operations, and continually improve.
-Provide products that meet their established quality specifications.

More Detailed Information

FDA Issues Dietary Supplements Final Rule

Final Rule Promotes Safe Use of Dietary Supplements

Docket No. 1996N-0417 (formerly No. 96N-0417), CFSAN 200441. Current Good Manufacturing Practice in Manufacturing, Packaging, Labeling, or Holding Operations for Dietary Supplements. Pages 34752-34958

FDA Webcast Archived: Implementation of CGMP for Dietary Supplements - Guidance for Industry

[1-Testosterone]

If BB.com will not show us the negative results, what is the real use of the label testing?

For GMP program, it's very good.

[BA Bean]

Originally Posted by 1-Testosterone

If BB.com will not show us the negative results, what is the real use of the label testing?

Exactly. Do we assume that the products that aren't promoted are the ones that have the negative results?

[NeXMuScLe]

Originally Posted by 1-Testosterone

If BB.com will not show us the negative results, what is the real use of the label testing?

For GMP program, it's very good.

agreed, i think there has to be
some way of letting the consumer
know.. or not carrying the bad product.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

I'll agree with the other guys that we should be able to see the negative results but as far as I'm concerned it's better then the system we had before and progress is progress.

[391rippy]

it'd be rad if they started doing that

[Chevymetal]

I think it would be a solid idea. Of course somebody has to absorb the cost of getting products tested, and it may be very little spread out over many products, but I'd be curious.
Testing products labels is kind of like drug testing employees, there's bound to be some that you think are golden, that will fail.
Ryan has a good sense of marketing. His idea of not bad mouthing the ones who fail but rather promoting only the ones that pass is really a win for both the consumer (getting a quality product with every purchase) and for bb.com (people will know they only carry the best, which would make them very unique).
Good thinking.

[dvsness]

Just use Prolab products. Problem solved.

[niiick]

Originally Posted by dvsness

Just use Prolab products. Problem solved.

forgot to add (no pimp)... i lol'd though

[punksurfer024]

i think its a great idea!!!! but i know ppl will whine and cry when prices go up due to the extra money tied up in this program...

[zachattack43]

sounds good, but does any recall mike's claimclaimstesting.com? or it was something like that.

[MattyH7688]

Originally Posted by dvsness

Just use Prolab products. Problem solved.

AGREED

[VaughnTrue]

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

AGREED

kiss ass.

[BuckeyeMuscle]

Looks like a good idea

[VaughnTrue]

i think the idea of testing products that bb.com sells is a good idea, however...in an industry where there is NO federal testing, ALL companies should be doing this(this bites into profits, so obviously that wont happen).


like others have said though, if bb.com doesnt tell us which products fail(and for what reason!) I believe it is useless for a few reasons.

1. We still have NO idea what we're buying. What if we're interested in a product that people have great results with? Everyone on the boards is saying they gained 10lbs in 3 weeks, and they had NO sides. BB.com sends it out to be tested, and it fails label claims. However how does it fail? Is it an anabolic? Is it something brand new that no one knows about and we would all LOVE to learn about? just because it fails claims doesnt mean its not healthy, or that I still wouldn't want it!
2. What about the people who have already used a mislabeled product? BB.com is going to pay for it to be tested, then not tell anyone? What if past users have potential health effects as a result of this product, yet NO ONE WILL TELL THEM WHY?



good idea in theory, but not posting findings turn it into some crap IMO

[Skigazzi]

Originally Posted by zachattack43

sounds good, but does any recall mike's claimclaimstesting.com? or it was something like that.

Labelclaimstesting.com I think...he got more legal threats than it was worth.

[triplewhammy]

This is a good idea. In response to showing only the "good" companies, it would by default weed out the "bad" ones based on marketing and product sales alone.

Free market economy at its finest.


-triple

[5Six]

I think I'm lost here. But I thought cGMP meant cyclic guanine monophosphate

But it sounds like some sorta QC

[zachattack43]

Originally Posted by Skigazzi

Labelclaimstesting.com I think...he got more legal threats than it was worth.

haha, damn typo

[SnakeVette80]

I'm all for it. If anything, it will add credibility and accountability to an industry that gets a bad rap for not having any. Of course it will have its hiccups along the way but I think it is a step in the right direction. I would gladly pay a few extra dollars to ensure that I'm getting what I pay for.

[eldawg]

So this would be similar to what GNC has in place?

[DRP7]

Originally Posted by deserusan

In response to a blog entry I made a few days ago regarding a company selling a fake anabolic I got an interesting comment from Bodybuilding.com CEO Ryan Deluca. I'm just curious how the members of the forum feel about Bodybuilding.com starting it's own GMP and testing program? He's all ears.

Funny thing is that this is something that I have proposed almost one year ago here at bb.com. as far as I can remember, you were also involved in this discussion, deserusan. but back in the day, people were just laughing about it saying that this would be entirely non-realisitc.
good to see that bb.com officials are going to introduce testing.

[dvsness]

Originally Posted by niiick

forgot to add (no pimp)... i lol'd though

I forgot nothing. Damn stright I'll pimp in any thread that involves QC, label claims and testing methods. Particularly when someone had the audacity to question Prolab recently.

Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

i think the idea of testing products that bb.com sells is a good idea, however...in an industry where there is NO federal testing, ALL companies should be doing this(this bites into profits, so obviously that wont happen).

The shady little ankle biters won't until they're forced to. The companies with ethics will regardless of size.

l

Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

ike others have said though, if bb.com doesnt tell us which products fail(and for what reason!) I believe it is useless for a few reasons.

1. We still have NO idea what we're buying. What if we're interested in a product that people have great results with? Everyone on the boards is saying they gained 10lbs in 3 weeks, and they had NO sides. BB.com sends it out to be tested, and it fails label claims. However how does it fail? Is it an anabolic? Is it something brand new that no one knows about and we would all LOVE to learn about? just because it fails claims doesnt mean its not healthy, or that I still wouldn't want it!

This goes back to ethics. Why not just label the product properly? Even if it is a great and novel item, I don't want to give my hard earned money to scam artists. Supporting that kind of action is encouraging bad behavior.

2. What about the people who have already used a mislabeled product? BB.com is going to pay for it to be tested, then not tell anyone? What if past users have potential health effects as a result of this product, yet NO ONE WILL TELL THEM WHY?

Interesting and excellent point.

[Skigazzi]

They need to find a legal loophole / method to somehow imply companies who fail testing. While it would be nice to see that MT / EAS / Gaspari / Met-rx / etc passed the testing, its also expected (though nothing in life is 100%).

Its the smaller companies that would be of interest to most people here on the forum..probably with special attention to the hormonal based supps / companies.

[dmangiarelli]

If a company fails testing why not just drop the product? In fact, a company should pass testing with every batch of product sent to BB.com and if the batch fails then the product should not be accepted at the companies expense. If this was done no one would know if a product tested bad because it wouldn't be available. BB.com could have passing testing as a condition of sale in their contract.

As far as adding $$ to the products? I'd rather pay a little extra to know what I am getting than pay less for something that might not be what it says.

As far as Vaughn's point about maybe wanting the product anyways... Doesn't that defeat the purpose of testing?

Overall, I think it is a great idea. And I think that the companies should pay for the testing too boot. Pass the cost on to the consumer. I don't mind paying to know that I am buying what the label says you are selling me...

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by Skigazzi

Its the smaller companies that would be of interest to most people here on the forum..probably with special attention to the hormonal based supps / companies.

Suprisingly there are certainly some "larger" companies who would fail label claims miserably. It's not just the little guys.

[Kernkraft]

did PA's thread just get wacked?

[An Inconvenient Bro]

it could only work if they give EQUAL promotion to all the good guys. otherwise favorites will be picked and pimped to high hell and it will actually quite tarnish bb.com's reputation

[redhawk76]

I think it would be a great idea, however, is that essentially saying bb.com would then knowingly sell products that don't contain what they say, and may prove harmful?

Doesn't that put liability on them if something does go wrong?

[1-Testosterone]

it could only work if they give EQUAL promotion to all the good guys. otherwise favorites will be picked and pimped to high hell and it will actually quite tarnish bb.com's reputation

just like they do BB.com awards and almost all of them are fixed!