Looking for opinion on the "Ultimate Stack"

[ryderbiker]

I have a grasp on working out and nutrition, but my experience has been somewhat limited when it comes to supplements. I am looking to add about 20 lbs of muscle in about 5 months. I currently am 5'10" and 198lbs. My bodyfat is right around 13-14%. I would like to get to about 210 and 8% or less body fat.
I have taken the following supplements previously(not all at the same time but this is what I have experience with): NO2, CE2, Adro6 by EAS, Phos****en HP, diet fuel, hydroxycut, ZMass PM, and about every multi-vitamin and whey protien out there.
I am looking for opinions on the best stack to get me where I want to be. Thanks for your input.

[fu3lforthought]

/Queue 27 replies saying "eat".

Edit: I won't be an arsehole.... I'll help you get started on your stack by providing some real easy answers.

1. Protein powder (Most use whey, most of those use Optimum Nutrition's 100%) - Use if you don't get enough complete proteins in your diet.
2. Creatine (Either regular, monohydrate, or CEE. For CEE go for either Omega Thunder or Green Bulge if you're entirely results oriented, HP CEE powder if price is a concern).
3. Multivitamin - just take it.
4. Essential Fatty Acids - You have to get some fat in your diet, it might as well be the good type. Use if you don't get enough EFAs in your diet.

If I was you I would be doing a lot of searching. Search up each product name ou hear about and write a list. Then categorize that list into product types (eg. "protein supplement", "creatines", "pre-workout energizer", "recovery", "other dietary supps" (EFAs, Amino Acids, BCAAs), etc). Once you have this list go through all of the relevant threads/product logs and then make a shortlist of the ones you want. Then add up the prices on bb.com, including shipping and INCLUDING how long of a supply you are getting for this price. If the total price is realistic for you, go for it. Otherwise, adjust.

There are some good threads called something like "what supplements worked for you" and another one about what people consider to be essential supplements. These, and stickies, are your friend. Also, because there are so many supplements to consider if I was you I would give myself 2-4 weeks of reading time before making a decision.

[Phosphate bond]

I have a grasp on working out and nutrition, but my experience has been somewhat limited when it comes to supplements.

Don't worry you aren't missing out on much.

Knowledge of nutrition and total body physiology will get you farther than the promises of supplement companies.

Andro 6? Hahaha, I remember that one.(one seriously junky supplement)

[furuno]

Try this stack:
Tuna
Chicken
Steak
Fish
Eggs
Milk
Whey


Works for me, if you want a good gainer, use muscle milk with whole milk.

[ryderbiker]

I have been using the basic stuff for about 3yrs. I have been on and off again with lifting due to my work schedule (Currently deployed to Iraq with the Army) but I have made good gains. I want to get past 200lbs which seems to be my sticking point. I know about all the protien/carb/fat ratio stuff. I am just trying to get some opinions on products. Thanks for replying.

[pu12en12g]

I am looking to add about 20 lbs of muscle in about 5 months. I currently am 5'10" and 198lbs. My bodyfat is right around 13-14%. I would like to get to about 210 and 8% or less body fat.

I am looking for opinions on the best stack to get me where I want to be. Thanks for your input.

There is one SERIOUS problem with your goal. You're looking to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.. it's possible but NOT very efficient.

As for your first goal, 20lbs of muscle in 5-6 months is a good goal, if you:


Diet:

-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you

- BMR and nutrition calculator (click here)

- Total Daily Protein Intake (for best results I recommend AROUND 2g per lb of bodyweight)

- Fatloss basics. READ IT:

- Foods (Good vs. Bad):

- If there was ONE SINGLE KEY to the gains I made in the 1 1/2 years when I went from 175-225 (my best.. leanest gains), it is OATS / STEEL CUT OATS ! The emphasis here is that oats / steel cut oats are a INEXPENSIVE, HEALTHY, yet VERY CALORIE DENSE FOOD. I saw lean gains like I had never seen before. But NO THEY DON'T TASTE GOOD. YOU HAVE TO FORCE FEED THEM. This gets old fast. I added about 1 cup of oats to each protein shake.

When bulking, I aim for:

- 1lb lean beef per day
- 1 Gallon Skim Milk per day
- Around 2000 cals per day from oats
- Lots of protein shakes (up to 8 per day)
- Lean chicken
- Lean turkey
- Lean beef / sloppy Joes (manwich)
- Hamburger Helper
- Lots of pasta
- Lots of tuna
- Potatoes
- Rice (Note: If you can afford it you can do things like boneless chicken breast, steaks etc.. etc..)
- Veggies (Fresh if possible)

When cutting:

- I eat many of the same foods above, but with a lower TOTAL DAILY CALORIE INTAKE

- I put a emphasis on PRE- and POST-workout nutrition, and the end result is that most of my calories are eaten before my afternoon workout. I have found this to be ideal (for me).




Supplements:

- SAVE $$$$$ ! ! STICK WITH THE BASICS ! ! )

Multivitamin
10 lb bags of Optimum Whey Protein (This includes a great BCAA profile AND glutamine) (Note: I recommend Choc / Choc Mint only)
Creapure Creatine or Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL
Cold Pressed Flaxseed oil (and / or fishoil

- Stay on creatine, there is no need to cycle it ! (cycling and loading are totally optional)

- Creatine timing (when / how to take it):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=307788
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm

- For best results, aim for AROUND 2g of total daily protein intake per lb of bodyweight EVERY SINGLE DAY ! !

Example:

Bodyweight: 200lbs
Total daily protein intake: 400g

Here is why:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...oprejudice.htm
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=337536
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=392907

Workout / Routine:

- I recommend a MAX-OT, 5x5, HST (or similar) routine with a EMPHASIS ON:

- Squatting / Leg pressing
- Deadlifts
- Barbell benchpress (Including flat / decline / incline)

- Both BB's and DB's for best results

- Concentrate more on measurements and less on bodyweight

- Weigh yourself once a week. Should gain (or lose) around 1lb per week (depending on goals).

- Concentrate on form first, in order to stay injury free

- Emphasize both range of motion, and mind-muscle connection

- With intensity, strength gains, and a proper bodybuilding diet, the size gains (or fatloss) will come

- Make sure and have a spotter when working out your major muscle groups, preferrably someone bigger than you

- Don't be scared of overtraining. Simply listen (pay attention) to your body, and ask more questions later if you think you are overtraining.





Cardio:

- If possible, do cardio at least 8 hours from when you lift weights

- If possible, do cardio in the AM after sleeping.

- No need to do cardio on a empty stomach, but many prefer to due to nausea

- Jumping rope is a very efficient form of cardio

- HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is a efficient form of cardio






Recovery (A.K.A GROWTH !):

- With proper intensity MUST COME PROPER RECOVERY !

- Make sure and get enough protein right before you go to sleep.

- Make sure and get enough protein/carbs right when you wake up

- Make sure and get enough deep, quality sleep (Not getting enough quality sleep is the #1 newbie mistake. You should aim for at least 8 QUALITY hours of sleep per night):

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...sleep_1_pr.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...sleep_2_pr.htm

- Make sure and get enough protein / calories on off days (This is when your body will be recovering) It is important to be consistent !

- Make sure and get proper pre and post-workout nutrition:

Carbs pre and post workout.
Protein pre and post workout.
Creatine pre and post workout:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

H20 / Cell volumization:

- Make sure and drink enough water throughout the day (This is CRITICAL ! !) I drink about 1 liter per hour. (Keep in mind I am currently over 220lbs so you may not need this much) Click here to read about why this is SO IMPORTANT:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....le=301stretch2
http://www.biochemj.org/bj/313/0697/3130697.pdf
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm

Good luck !

Disclaimer: The above post is IN MY OPINION, or IN MY EXPERIENCE, unless otherwise noted.

[user34566548717114]

There is one SERIOUS problem with your goal. You're looking to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.. it's possible but NOT very efficient.

As for your first goal, 20lbs of muscle in 5-6 months is a good goal, if you:


Diet:

-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you

- BMR and nutrition calculator (click here)

- Total Daily Protein Intake (for best results I recommend AROUND 2g per lb of bodyweight)

- Fatloss basics. READ IT:

- Foods (Good vs. Bad):

- If there was ONE SINGLE KEY to the gains I made in the 1 1/2 years when I went from 175-225 (my best.. leanest gains), it is OATS / STEEL CUT OATS ! The emphasis here is that oats / steel cut oats are a INEXPENSIVE, HEALTHY, yet VERY CALORIE DENSE FOOD. I saw lean gains like I had never seen before. But NO THEY DON'T TASTE GOOD. YOU HAVE TO FORCE FEED THEM. This gets old fast. I added about 1 cup of oats to each protein shake.

When bulking, I aim for:

- 1lb lean beef per day
- 1 Gallon Skim Milk per day
- Around 2000 cals per day from oats
- Lots of protein shakes (up to 8 per day)
- Lean chicken
- Lean turkey
- Lean beef / sloppy Joes (manwich)
- Hamburger Helper
- Lots of pasta
- Lots of tuna
- Potatoes
- Rice (Note: If you can afford it you can do things like boneless chicken breast, steaks etc.. etc..)
- Veggies (Fresh if possible)

When cutting:

- I eat many of the same foods above, but with a lower TOTAL DAILY CALORIE INTAKE

- I put a emphasis on PRE- and POST-workout nutrition, and the end result is that most of my calories are eaten before my afternoon workout. I have found this to be ideal (for me).




Supplements:

- SAVE $$$$$ ! ! STICK WITH THE BASICS ! ! )

Multivitamin
10 lb bags of Optimum Whey Protein (This includes a great BCAA profile AND glutamine) (Note: I recommend Choc / Choc Mint only)
Creapure Creatine or Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL
Cold Pressed Flaxseed oil (and / or fishoil

- Stay on creatine, there is no need to cycle it ! (cycling and loading are totally optional)

- Creatine timing (when / how to take it):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=307788
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm

- For best results, aim for AROUND 2g of total daily protein intake per lb of bodyweight EVERY SINGLE DAY ! !

Example:

Bodyweight: 200lbs
Total daily protein intake: 400g

Here is why:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...oprejudice.htm
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=337536
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=392907

Workout / Routine:

- I recommend a MAX-OT, 5x5, HST (or similar) routine with a EMPHASIS ON:

- Squatting / Leg pressing
- Deadlifts
- Barbell benchpress (Including flat / decline / incline)

- Both BB's and DB's for best results

- Concentrate more on measurements and less on bodyweight

- Weigh yourself once a week. Should gain (or lose) around 1lb per week (depending on goals).

- Concentrate on form first, in order to stay injury free

- Emphasize both range of motion, and mind-muscle connection

- With intensity, strength gains, and a proper bodybuilding diet, the size gains (or fatloss) will come

- Make sure and have a spotter when working out your major muscle groups, preferrably someone bigger than you

- Don't be scared of overtraining. Simply listen (pay attention) to your body, and ask more questions later if you think you are overtraining.





Cardio:

- If possible, do cardio at least 8 hours from when you lift weights

- If possible, do cardio in the AM after sleeping.

- No need to do cardio on a empty stomach, but many prefer to due to nausea

- Jumping rope is a very efficient form of cardio

- HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is a efficient form of cardio






Recovery (A.K.A GROWTH !):

- With proper intensity MUST COME PROPER RECOVERY !

- Make sure and get enough protein right before you go to sleep.

- Make sure and get enough protein/carbs right when you wake up

- Make sure and get enough deep, quality sleep (Not getting enough quality sleep is the #1 newbie mistake. You should aim for at least 8 QUALITY hours of sleep per night):

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...sleep_1_pr.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...sleep_2_pr.htm

- Make sure and get enough protein / calories on off days (This is when your body will be recovering) It is important to be consistent !

- Make sure and get proper pre and post-workout nutrition:

Carbs pre and post workout.
Protein pre and post workout.
Creatine pre and post workout:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

H20 / Cell volumization:

- Make sure and drink enough water throughout the day (This is CRITICAL ! !) I drink about 1 liter per hour. (Keep in mind I am currently over 220lbs so you may not need this much) Click here to read about why this is SO IMPORTANT:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....le=301stretch2
http://www.biochemj.org/bj/313/0697/3130697.pdf
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm

Good luck !

Disclaimer: The above post is IN MY OPINION, or IN MY EXPERIENCE, unless otherwise noted.

whattt a useful post!?!?!?!? no fing way

reps

[ryderbiker]

Thanks for the input. I am doing searches on here for supplement info. Sorry about not doing that first. I read the post about the "newbie" rules a second ago. The only thing I haven't used is flaxseed. I know my diet is what is holding me back. It's hard to eat 400 grams of protien and fight a war at the same time. Also I am not trying to bulk and cut at the same time. I am trying to do both in 5 months. I was planning to bulk up for 12 weeks and then try and cut for 8 weeks.

[tonytartufo]

Bumpin it up! Good post P12